will this control panel layout work?thanks for any advice...

[signdude]

hello all...this is a great forum that i have been visiting often and learning sooo much. i am in the process now of trying to design and build my own arcade. i am planning to buy a premade cabinet from Recroom. but i am planning to build my own control box for the cabinet and was hoping i could get some expert advice on whether or not i am on the right track here.... what i have in mind is to have controls for playing all the basics like pacman, donkey kong etc..   and have a dedicated set of controls for defender/stargate as defender is my favorite of all time.... and lastly i want to have controls setup for 2 player action for al the old fighting games etc....

so this is the layout that i have come up with to fit it all into on control box. this layout is to exact dimensions. i know it will be a bit crowded but i tried to arrange them so that they wont get in the way of each other. can anyone please let me know if this layout is do-able. i wish i had room for 2 cabinets but i unfortunately dont...
thanks sooo much for any help with this...

[Titchgamer]

It will work sure, but its messy and crowded.
If I went to play that CP I would be confused as hell!

Why have separate buttons for frogger etc than Street Fighter? Just use 3 of the black buttons.

I am assuming the big yellow ball is a track ball? If so bring it back a little or you will end up stubbing your fingers on the bezel/glass.

You could also use 4/8 way switchable sticks instead of having multiple sticks.

But if you want dedicated 4 or 2 way I would try to avoid positioning them behind buttons.

Just my 2 cents like

[signdude]

gotcha Titch thanks alot for you input. yes i am al little unclear on how the daisy chain of buttons works. i was assuming that if certain buttons were connected to a certain joystick then those buttons can only be used with that joystick. so are you saying that i can assign any buttons on the entire control board to work with any joystick on the control board? so in my layout i could use some of the blue buttons that i have assigned to work with the defender 2 way joystick and actually use a blue button with one of the 8 way joysticks at the bottom?(this is just for instance) then that would change everything....
and yes thanks for the tip...i will definitely move the rollerball down some as that for sure make sense...

[Laythe]

Buttons aren't really connected to joysticks at all.  They're all just inputs.  You can pretty much assign any input to mean anything you want.

You could make joystick #2 "up" mean fire in Galaga.  You wouldn't want to, but you could.

[signdude]

thanks Laythe i think i am starting to understand how it works. so can you please look at this revised layout and tell me what you think?  so my thinking is that the center trackball and u360 joystick would be for the classics (pacman, frogger etc.) and there for would need to be in the center of the control panel as they are all one player games. what are your thoughts on this? thanks again for everyones help with this....

[paigeoliver]

I know from many years of experience that controls that are behind other controls are uncomfortable to use and eventually you will just stop playing those games.

Defender doesn't require the buttons laid out like that to function, and if it is a big enough deal to you to sabotage your whole panel over it then I would suggest also just getting a Defender machine.

[Laythe]

I think the space between the trackball and the u360 won't let you move right on the trackball well.  Some will tell you you need a beachball-size zone clear - I think that's a bit excessive, but you do need a little.

(Also, research the under-panel footprint of a trackball - they are bigger than the sphere itself.  There's rollers and optoencoders down there.)

I disagree with PaigeOliver a little regarding Defender - I don't think you can play reasonably it if you don't have a thumbable reverse button right next to a stick.   (You can work around it with a hacked rom that makes left and right work instead, I suppose.)  I do however agree with him that reaching past controls to access other controls is tricky.

It's great to iterate designs as diagrams like this.  Also keep in mind when you get your parts, you can make a playable CP with just holes in a board.  If you find you don't like it in practice, you're only out a little wiring effort and the board - drill a new board and try again.  If you aren't 100% sure of your layout, you may want to do that a time or two before you spend effort and money on your CPO artwork and make the really nice panel.

[signdude]

thanks Paige and Laythe, i do see what you both are saying. as far as reaching over controls, does that mean reaching over buttons? i have never tried it but just seems like that would be no problem as you can just let your palm lay on the buttons if need be as long as they are not active buttons for the game you are playing, but like i said i have never tried it so i am sure it could be an issue...
as for the large area needed aroundthe trackball, i will not be playing any golden tee so are there other games that i am not thinking of that you really get down on the trackball?
here is another stab at a layout that would hopefully be workable. i sure wish i did have enough room for a dedicated Defender thanks again for yalls help

[paigeoliver]

I disagree with PaigeOliver a little regarding Defender - I don't think you can play reasonably it if you don't have a thumbable reverse button right next to a stick.   

You just mount the buttons really close to the stick, and then you have your reverse button.

[Laythe]

here is another stab at a layout that would hopefully be workable. i sure wish i did have enough room for a dedicated Defender thanks again for yalls help

I think that'd probably be workable.  It's still got a lot going on, but I think it's improved from your first version.

The U360 + 4 upper right blue buttons would be a decent group for relatively centered 1p Neo-Geo play.

You'll probably use either p1 or p2's lower 3 black buttons for Missile Command; that'd work just fine.

You don't have P1/P2 start buttons yet, which were frequently on top of the control panel on the originals - you may want to add those.  You also don't have any admin buttons - for which I commend you, they aren't needed on the main control panel in my opinion.

Overall, you could get by with less controls, but I don't think you're making a terrible mistake.  Others may disagree.  I'd also like to say that I really appreciate you actually wanting the feedback you asked for - thanks for that!

You just mount the buttons really close to the stick, and then you have your reverse button.

Good point.  That would work.

[signdude]

thanks Laythe for all your input. thats what makes this forum awesome. i am new to it but i will definitely be a regular now since i am getting so interested in arcades again like when i was young...
could you possibly inform me of what admin buttons i would need? other than the 1 and 2 player.
thanks again

[Titchgamer]

Thats getting better slowly.

But I agree with Paige reaching over controls is uncomfortable and can cause problems if you rest your wrist on buttons (unexpected button combos/shortcuts)

Why the blue button behind the ball? Seems rather inaccessible/pointless?

But if you want to keep the 4 curved blues and the 360 move them all right.
The track ball is in the way of the stick and the 2p stick in the way of the buttons.

[jeremymtc]

One other tip that's hanging in the air but not explicitly mentioned would be that you might consider building a swap-able alternate control panel with just the Defender/Stargate controls. It would really clean up the 2p panel, give you more room and better access for the track ball, and make the Defender setup no-compromise.

If you do your wiring right (example: use something like a DB-25 cable and harness plug coming off each panel), you can use the same encoder for both panels to keep the cost down.

[Cynicaster]

Your latest layout looks a lot more usable than the first design, but I definitely think that P2 joystick is going to drive you nuts when trying to use the Defender buttons on the right side.  IMO, it's best to just accept that a general-purpose cabinet is going to involve compromises on control layouts--in other words, I'd prefer controls that may be less accurate in spacing but are unobstructed and comfortable to use.  I have to believe there is a good way of, for example, laying it out such that a dedicated up/down Defender stick is not needed. 

I'm able to play Defender no problem using my P1 joystick, which has a generic 6-button layout next to it; the first button in the lower row is in just the right location for hitting with my thumb.  For the "right side" Defender buttons (thrust, fire, smart bomb), I have variously mapped some of the P2-side buttons to those functions, or even other P1-side buttons.  I never use hyperspace so I don't even bother mapping it.  I'm able to play and enjoy the game just fine. 

I guess I understand how you'd want a faithful layout if Defender is one of your top priorities, and in that case, I'd strongly suggest you consider swappable panels. 

I'm in the process of doing just that right now; the panel is built and wired, just waiting for some last cables to come in the mail.  After 6 years of playing Robotron on a generic layout, I decided to make a second panel with an accurate layout for that game.  The cabinet was not originally designed with swappable panels in mind and it was not difficult to do; it would have been even easier had I worked it into the plan from the get-go.  Both panels use the same i-Pac, although I found that I could have simply bought a second i-Pac for about the same amount of money I spent on the bits and pieces needed to share one.       

[signdude]

hey thanks Cynicaster for that insight....i am so green on this subject that i never even considered that i caould do a 2nd control box that i could dedicate to defender. will you please elaborate on that idea? what is the process of changing control boxes out? can it be done quickly like with just one plug, or is it a bit more involved than that?
i have never done this so i dont even know how the control box hooks up to the cpu...thanks so much

[Titchgamer]

hey thanks Cynicaster for that insight....i am so green on this subject that i never even considered that i caould do a 2nd control box that i could dedicate to defender. will you please elaborate on that idea? what is the process of changing control boxes out? can it be done quickly like with just one plug, or is it a bit more involved than that?
i have never done this so i dont even know how the control box hooks up to the cpu...thanks so much

The general idea is to use plugs.
You wire all controls to the male plug which then plugs into the female which is connected to your encoder board.
Separate panels obv have separate male plugs wired in the same way so when you want to play its as simple as plug and play.

As for fixing them there is a whole host of methods including sprung clips, catches or just good old fashioned screws.
The possibilities are endless lol

[Cynicaster]

hey thanks Cynicaster for that insight....i am so green on this subject that i never even considered that i caould do a 2nd control box that i could dedicate to defender. will you please elaborate on that idea? what is the process of changing control boxes out? can it be done quickly like with just one plug, or is it a bit more involved than that?
i have never done this so i dont even know how the control box hooks up to the cpu...thanks so much

Actually, in my case, it's not so much a 2nd "control box" as it is just the top panel.  The "box" portion containing the iPac encoder stays affixed to the cabinet, and the two different top panels (with mounted controls) get swapped back and forth as desired.  Four cabinet door magnet latches is plenty to hold the panels in place, but there are many ways to skin that cat. 

As mentioned, easy changes are facilitated through use of electrical connectors that enable you to connect/disconnect multiple wires at once. I chose to go with RJ-45 (aka "ethernet" cable) because those connections are easy to make with one hand.  The drawback is that they only contain 12 conductors each, so I need to connect/disconnect 4 of them when I swap panels.  Again, if I had designed the cabinet from the start with this in mind, I probably would have done something more tidy and elegant, but this works just fine as a retro-fit. 

If you want some more detailed step-by-step information, search the projects section here... I'm sure there has to be several projects in there that talk about swappable panels and how it was achieved. 



 

[Laythe]

thanks Laythe for all your input. thats what makes this forum awesome. i am new to it but i will definitely be a regular now since i am getting so interested in arcades again like when i was young...
could you possibly inform me of what admin buttons i would need? other than the 1 and 2 player.
thanks again

I don't think you need any.

On my cabinet I put two down low, underneath the control panel, above the coin door area - largely out of sight - for  [Exit Game]   and   [Pause]

(If I were doing it again, I wouldn't bother with [Pause].  Having [Exit] be somewhere hard to hit and hard to button mash by accident is kind of nice.)

Some people think they need a bunch.  I've seen volume up, volume down, mute, three or four buttons dedicated to various things in the game selection menu, "genre", "favorites", save gamestate, load gamestate, people using buttons on the control panel for coining up the players...  I think it detracts from the overall look and feel of the cabinet. 

So, I like that you've got none, but as the Dude would say - that's, just, like, my opinion, man.