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| RandyT:
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on May 05, 2022, 08:29:21 pm --- --- Quote from: Mike A on May 05, 2022, 08:19:53 am ---If you spend the money and don't buy a kit, then a 3D printer is a tool that just works with minor maintenance. Same with a CNC machine. These guys are buying kits and they enjoy the tinkering. --- End quote --- I wish that were that case Mike, but it really isn't. Even with a top-of-the-line printer the success rate is probably 80% on prints at best. Filament reacts to moisture, bed adhesion fluctuates, hot ends overheat ect. Remember we are essentially making a cake by stacking row after row of squirts of icing on top of each other and hoping that it doesn't fall over..... that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- shouldn't even work so it's a miracle that it even works half of the time exactly as you intend it to. --- End quote --- Agreed. These two responses demonstrate the difference between marketing-influenced perception, coupled with seeing the results from someone who knows their machine(s) really, really well and someone who has actually tried to make good prints with any sort of regularity on a machine they own. A chisel is also a tool which just works with minor maintenance, but if you don't know how to properly sharpen one, the results will show it. --- Quote from: talkgeek on May 06, 2022, 04:26:19 am ---...honestly I think 80% is a bit low, and that will scare off people getting into this - its prob closer to 90+% - and my experience is most issues are filament (temp / moisture / bed adhesion) or slicer config - once you have tuned in your printer, ..and yes, (like anything including building arcades) you have to invest time to get the most out of it - the more prints (experience you gain) the less issues. --- End quote --- The Ender series are probably the best of the low-cost bed-slingers, but not out of the box unless you get very lucky. They still really require the upgrades you mentioned to take away a lot of the variables which are just part of the process. And those aren't even worth anything if you don't REALLY understand the slicer software and can make proper adjustments to get rid of the problems. Even that won't fix all of them, forcing you to go back to your CAD software to make changes to the part to be more conducive to the process and how you want your workflow to go. Experience is everything with these machines and it transcends the hardware. |
| nitrogen_widget:
--- Quote from: BadMouth on May 06, 2022, 09:45:22 am ---Thanks for the links nitrogen_widget. Those are cheaper than what I remember coming up in my searches. I am wondering if silicone cable is a good choice for inside cable chains though. It's flexible, but also grabs everything it comes into contact with. When the first wires to the inductor broke (four conductor silicone ribbon cable), I left them in the cable chain because it was easier than removing them. This time around I removed them and the other broken wires. The first set which was no longer connected at the toolhead end had worked itself backwards through the cable chain five or six inches. I am wondering if the sticky silicone ribbon cables weren't "walking" themselves backwards against each other as the cable chain rolled and unrolled. If so it would be an argument for $PTFE$ cable. I already ordered a larger gauge silicone ribbon cable on the current build, but it won't be inside a cable chain. Printed some brackets to hold the electronics where I would like them to live. The goal is to have the electronics and motors in a compartment insulated from both the frame and chamber with a couple big fans moving air across them. Still don't know exactly how that will work, but this lets me visualize how things fit. A lot less wire will be required. Still haven't lost any Y axis travel. Gonna start rewiring & printing parts for the Trident Z axis conversion. After the Trident conversion is done, I am going to try to incorporate the filament spools inside the frame under where the toolheads park on the sides. --- End quote --- as for silicone grabbing I also have this stuff for my cnc and it's slickery. i'll either use original wire loom inside the chain or use this stuff. https://www.amazon.com/100ft-Expandable-Braided-Sleeving-Sleeve/dp/B074GM1PK1/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1O6NPW0S4REVA&keywords=wire+loom&qid=1652046194&sprefix=wire+loom%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQVRVV0hCVTNBN0hJJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTUwODQzM1QzVDZQSERKOEgwQiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTg4ODcxMTg2WTlPUjhHTDA1MiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= |
| nitrogen_widget:
--- Quote from: RandyT on May 06, 2022, 02:26:44 pm --- --- Quote from: Howard_Casto on May 05, 2022, 08:29:21 pm --- --- Quote from: Mike A on May 05, 2022, 08:19:53 am ---If you spend the money and don't buy a kit, then a 3D printer is a tool that just works with minor maintenance. Same with a CNC machine. These guys are buying kits and they enjoy the tinkering. --- End quote --- I wish that were that case Mike, but it really isn't. Even with a top-of-the-line printer the success rate is probably 80% on prints at best. Filament reacts to moisture, bed adhesion fluctuates, hot ends overheat ect. Remember we are essentially making a cake by stacking row after row of squirts of icing on top of each other and hoping that it doesn't fall over..... that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- shouldn't even work so it's a miracle that it even works half of the time exactly as you intend it to. --- End quote --- Agreed. These two responses demonstrate the difference between marketing-influenced perception, coupled with seeing the results from someone who knows their machine(s) really, really well and someone who has actually tried to make good prints with any sort of regularity on a machine they own. A chisel is also a tool which just works with minor maintenance, but if you don't know how to properly sharpen one, the results will show it. --- Quote from: talkgeek on May 06, 2022, 04:26:19 am ---...honestly I think 80% is a bit low, and that will scare off people getting into this - its prob closer to 90+% - and my experience is most issues are filament (temp / moisture / bed adhesion) or slicer config - once you have tuned in your printer, ..and yes, (like anything including building arcades) you have to invest time to get the most out of it - the more prints (experience you gain) the less issues. --- End quote --- The Ender series are probably the best of the low-cost bed-slingers, but not out of the box unless you get very lucky. They still really require the upgrades you mentioned to take away a lot of the variables which are just part of the process. And those aren't even worth anything if you don't REALLY understand the slicer software and can make proper adjustments to get rid of the problems. Even that won't fix all of them, forcing you to go back to your CAD software to make changes to the part to be more conducive to the process and how you want your workflow to go. Experience is everything with these machines and it transcends the hardware. --- End quote --- I pissed away a roll of pet-g on multiple 40-50hr prints (same model) that failed half way through (layer shift) because there was slop in the bearing roller for the bed. since i replaced it i'm back to back 60+hr prints with zero issue. |
| RandyT:
--- Quote from: nitrogen_widget on May 08, 2022, 05:52:49 pm ---I pissed away a roll of pet-g on multiple 40-50hr prints (same model) that failed half way through (layer shift) because there was slop in the bearing roller for the bed. since i replaced it i'm back to back 60+hr prints with zero issue. --- End quote --- Sounds about right. That's where, I think, most of the waste and difficulty occurs. Not knowing where the problem is and whether it is an isolated "glitch" somewhere or a genuine machine issue which needs to be addressed. I had a similar situation on an ET4 where I would print a bed full of small parts and would inevitably get a layer shift or the head would stall and deposit a pile of plastic and then back the filament all the way out of the tube. Fewer parts on the table and it would usually print fine. Thinking the firmware was crap, I upgraded it and still had the same issues. Then after replacing the mainboard after smoking it by shorting the heater with some tweezers due to the aforementioned blobs, I put the latest Anet firmware on it, thinking it might solve the issue (same base machine and MB.) But still the exact same problems. Wasn't until I found a Marlin replacement firmware that the issues went away and the machine started behaving. If I didn't have the sense that the firmware was the root of the problems, the "rabbit-hole" would have gone much deeper and been more costly to remedy. I don't know how the Chinese engineers manage to bork Marlin so badly when they skin the software for touch screens, but somehow they do. If I were to guess, knowing how they tend to operate, one guy does a shoddy job and it gets copied/modified by everyone, with existing bugs plus potentially new ones, which are never fixed because it almost works well enough to sell the printer. So there's another bullet point for my list of machines to avoid; anything which doesn't have a reasonably easy path to make it swallow a stock Marlin firmware or a community modded one which has been well-tested. In the low-cost market, that means sticking with the most popular brands and models, even if they tend to cost a little more than other similar machines. |
| nitrogen_widget:
--- Quote from: RandyT on May 09, 2022, 09:35:49 am --- --- Quote from: nitrogen_widget on May 08, 2022, 05:52:49 pm ---I pissed away a roll of pet-g on multiple 40-50hr prints (same model) that failed half way through (layer shift) because there was slop in the bearing roller for the bed. since i replaced it i'm back to back 60+hr prints with zero issue. --- End quote --- Sounds about right. That's where, I think, most of the waste and difficulty occurs. Not knowing where the problem is and whether it is an isolated "glitch" somewhere or a genuine machine issue which needs to be addressed. I had a similar situation on an ET4 where I would print a bed full of small parts and would inevitably get a layer shift or the head would stall and deposit a pile of plastic and then back the filament all the way out of the tube. Fewer parts on the table and it would usually print fine. Thinking the firmware was crap, I upgraded it and still had the same issues. Then after replacing the mainboard after smoking it by shorting the heater with some tweezers due to the aforementioned blobs, I put the latest Anet firmware on it, thinking it might solve the issue (same base machine and MB.) But still the exact same problems. Wasn't until I found a Marlin replacement firmware that the issues went away and the machine started behaving. If I didn't have the sense that the firmware was the root of the problems, the "rabbit-hole" would have gone much deeper and been more costly to remedy. I don't know how the Chinese engineers manage to bork Marlin so badly when they skin the software for touch screens, but somehow they do. If I were to guess, knowing how they tend to operate, one guy does a shoddy job and it gets copied/modified by everyone, with existing bugs plus potentially new ones, which are never fixed because it almost works well enough to sell the printer. So there's another bullet point for my list of machines to avoid; anything which doesn't have a reasonably easy path to make it swallow a stock Marlin firmware or a community modded one which has been well-tested. In the low-cost market, that means sticking with the most popular brands and models, even if they tend to cost a little more than other similar machines. --- End quote --- yeah. the only way i found it was by pressing on stuff and tightening fasteners. again. I found 4 on the underside for the rail the rollers run on were loose. then found the bad bearing shift but it only happened when one corner was pushed. i don't push on my printer beds so.... it is amazing how some dude who is a hobbyist can make marlin work better than the manufacturer of the printer aint it? |
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