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| Gun talk - Sega Type-II IR Gun setup |
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| twistedsymphony:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on February 07, 2016, 11:40:10 pm --- --- Quote ---but I really really hate the screw terminals that Ultimarc insist on putting on everything they make. --- End quote --- This is a simple fix. Cut connector cables (females) and screw them into the terminals. Then plug the male ends into the females. --- End quote --- My gripes with screw terminals is 1, they're unreliable and tend to come lose overtime from vibration and 2, they're really messy, adding pigtails to them does not solve either one of these issues, I've looked into replacing them with pin headers but the spacing is so far apart it's just a total pain in the ass to do so. --- Quote from: Howard_Casto on February 08, 2016, 01:05:35 am ---Hey if someone can find it post the Jurassic Park manual here. I'm having a hard time finding it due to the recently released 2015 game. There's an I/O board on eBay for 30 bucks right now, but I don't have a clue what else a person would need. --- End quote --- Here are all the manuals for all the games that I know of that use this system. They're are several revisions over time, but for the most part they're all compatible and all work the same way. The Gun protect board I mentioned I think was introduced around House of the Dead III. From oldest to newest: 1997 - The Lost World: http://gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/The_Lost_World_-_1997_-_Sega.pdf 1998 - The House of the Dead 2: http://gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/House_of_the_Dead_2_-_1998_-_Sega.pdf 1999 - Brave Firefighters: http://www.mamechannel.it/files_free/arcade_manuals_unpacked/braveff.pdf 2000 - Confidential Mission: http://gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/Confidential_Mission_-_2000_-_Sega.pdf 2000 - Death Crimson OX (Japan Only) -- No Manual -- 2001 - Lupin the 3rd: The Shooting (Japan only) --No Manual-- 2002 - The Maze Of The Kings (missing schematic) http://www.gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/The_Maze_of_the_Kings_-_2002_-_Sega.pdf 2003 - The House of the Dead III: http://www.crazykong.com/manuals/HouseOfDead3.man.pdf 2003 - Virtua Cop 3: http://gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/Virtua_Cop_3_-_2003_-_Sega.pdf 2004 - Ghost Squad: http://gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/Ghost_Squad_-_2004_-_Sega.pdf 2005 - House of the Dead 4: https://archive.org/details/ArcadeGameManualHod4-manual 2007 - 2 Spicy: http://d2q2ufly9wqg0k.cloudfront.net/sharedfiles/2%20Spicy%20Manual.pdf 2007 - Ghost Squad Evolution: http://www.playkom.ru/upload/manuals/GHOST_SQUAD_evolushion.pdf 2008 - Primevil Hunt: https://archive.org/details/primeivilhuntmanual 2008 - Rambo: -- no manual -- 2008 - The House of the Dead EX: -- no manual -- 2010 - Golden Gun: http://www.bmigaming.com/Games/Manuals/sega/golden-gun-video-arcade-shooting-game-operators-manual-sega.pdf 2012 - Operation G.H.O.S.T.: http://www.bmigaming.com/Games/Manuals/sega/operation-ghost-42-video-arcade-shooting-game-operators-manual-sega.pdf --- Quote from: Howard_Casto on February 08, 2016, 12:39:34 am ---The sensors.... are they just IR, or sonic or what? That part of the setup could most likely be built for a few cents a board judging from the part count. I've never looked into the Jurassic World guns, but I guess I should now. --- End quote --- Sensors are IR. The small boards around the display are IR LEDS but they blink at high speed in a pattern, I think this is so that the gun can potentially only see a few of them at a time and still work since it will know which sensors in the array they are. There are 2 LEDs a Resistor a cap and a couple of ICs on each one of these boards. The board in the gun has even less components but most of it is hidden under a glued plastic cap so I don't really know what's going on under there. On my test setup with a 21" diagonal spacing around the monitor I could play with the gun as close as 23" before it started having signal problems. --- Quote from: PL1 on February 08, 2016, 04:44:05 am ---If you're referring to KADESTICK, then yes, the currently-available firmwares are 2- and 4-axis versions even though the ATmega32U4 board can handle up to 11 analog inputs. If you want up to 8 analog axes, check out the maxArcade prototype in KADE Loader -- USB/HID Joystick 2 Player with Analog (Beta) firmware. If you don't see the pull-down board option for maxArcade in Loader, click on "Advanced -- Beta Version -- Receive Beta Updates". For info on ordering the correct AT90USB646 board and bootloader to "roll your own", see the KADE-compatible AVR vendors list. Scott --- End quote --- Thanks for that info! I'll check it out. |
| Howard_Casto:
I meant the earlier Jurassic Park game as you said it could be bought for cheap, but I appreciate the links anyway. ;) The blink pattern thing is rather brilliant. I had been thinking of a complicated equation to determine which leds the gun is seeing, but that makes a lot more sense. In addition, that explains the strange led assembly and I now get what is going on. The small chips on the led boards are most likely addressable LED chips daisy-chained together. You know, like the ones used on those controllable led light strips you see on ebay. Inside the gun it's most likely a simple ir camera and chip to calculate the position. (Aka a wiimote) All you need to do is turn 3 leds on at a time, enough to triangulate the position. The math would be different for each pattern, but other than that it wouldn't be terribly hard to do. The distance between each of the 3 leds tells you how close the gun is (scale multiplier) and the distance the leds are from the center of the screen gives the position. The gun would never have to see the whole bezel, just one edge, which is how it can still track when you are so close to it. You always know which leds it's pointed at as you only turn on 3 at a time, rapidly, in sequence. I'm not sure if you can get a camera module for a reasonable price, but if so this is probably buildable. |
| twistedsymphony:
Some more detailed information about the actual hardware used: LED Boards... There are 10 of these (the lost world uses 12 though I believe). 5 across the top and 5 across the bottom. I think the 12 sensor setup used an addition sensor on the left and right sides. The lost world used a version with two verical LEDs, then with HOTD2 they changed it to 2 horizonal LEDs with a little hood: at some point later they changed again to a version that uses 4 LEDs and no hood: From what I understand they're all intercompatible, you can have a mixed collection of these boards in the daisy-chain and it still works fine. I do believe the order of the sensors in the chain matters though. It starts one in from the bottom right of the screen then goes around clock wise ending on the bottom right. Sensor Board... this is littereally the only thing inside the gun aside from the trigger switch there are a few different revisions of this, I've seen them with longer or shorter lenses depending on the gun casing they're going in, but from what I understand you can use any sensor with any Gun I/O revision, the pin out is the same and the Gun I/O doesn't care. It has a trigger signal wire, and a ground reference and the rest of the pins are for the sensor. Gun I/O Board: Many different revisions of this board, the early ones for Lost world need 12 sensors, but the rest only need 10. They all have the same connectors, a 2-pin 12V power connector, a connector for each gun, a connector for the LED board daisy-chain, and an 9-pin output connector for the analog X and Y on each gun as well as a trigger and "screen out" "buttons" as well as a ground reference. The 3-pin CN1 connector doesn't seem to be used though mine has a connector that jumps pins 1 and 2 so maybe it's some kind of external jumper setup. Gun Protect Board: This connects to the gun connectors on the Gun I/O and then the guns plug into this. They started using this around 2003 and I believe they sold these board separately for people who wanted to retrofit them to older games. Newer Games use a fancier "fuse board" that also includes fuses and protection circuits for the recoil solinoid. this board is technically not required, it's recommended that you run one if you don't want your ish to break. If you want any detailed pictures of the boards or IC numbers let me know. |
| Howard_Casto:
hmm... a pic of the back of the gun sensor would be helpful..... Keep in mind I'm kind of a dummy when it comes to IC and solid state stuff, but just at first glance....... The gun I/O board seems to do the heavy lifting. That largish chip on the board most likely takes the gun sensor data and converts it to something useful. Most of the other chips look like timing junk... probably used for the led array. Those led lights.... there might be something off-the-shelf that would work considering how much leeway you said the board gives you in terms of revisions. Ditto for the gun sensor and those are the two most costly parts. That would reduce the cost dramatically as the main board seems to retail for 30-50 dollars on ebay..... it's the other stuff that's costly. |
| twistedsymphony:
I took apart one of the guns and snapped some photos: it's pretty empty in there. Here is what it looks like under the lens: Here's what the sensor looks like under the lens: kind of hard to capture what it looked like in a photo but it was a purple plasticy sub-straight that looked like it had ink blotches on it, it kind of reminded me of a solar panel. I don't think it's a camera more like a light sensor. the back side had 3 pots (or maybe adjustable caps?) with the lens on there are holes to get to the adjusters It's also worth noting that the Gun I/O board I posted earlier is a very new revision. mine is an older NAOMI-era board with much larger through-hole chips: |
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