Star Wars 7 SPOILERS!

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harveybirdman:
I just watched 4 and 5 tonight, to try and see everyone's point about their supposed flaws and just how shallow they are. And the reality is the flaws aren't there. They are genius in every way. I take back what has been said about TFA being a rehash of ANH, it pales in comparison. After it's first action scene ANH spends nearly 30 mins plus setting up the remainder of the movie with brilliant exposition. If TFA had taken its cues from ANH perhaps it too would have had a justified and satisfying climax

Lucas may have been a hack but between Kershner, Brackett, and Kasdan Empire took things to even higher highs. The characters grow and develop and you feel how close their friendship is. So close in fact that Luke nearly loses his life to save them. None of it feels manufactured because it is justified by their actions in the stories.

I realize at this point I'm not convincing anyone to dislike TFA, but no one will change my mind either on any of the following things.

1) The original trilogy is vastly superior to anything that has been produced since.

2) Even post Lucas and with Disney pulling the strings it is still possible to produce a Star Wars movie that is both a money maker and just as good as the original films. I hope to live to see it.

3) JJ Abrams blows, he ruined LOST with a retarded ending and never explained anything then pretended like he knew everything after the series wrapped. Even now I see interviews with him pulling the same ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- Trying to add details here and there that were never discussed. I'm so happy this hack is not returning.

pbj:
Meh I watched 10-15 minutes of one episode of the first season of Lost and said, "they're all dead and this is purgatory." Never understood why anyone ever thought there was more to it.

:dunno

We've been rewatching the original movies today. It's been 30 years, it will never be the same. We were entertained by the new movie.

:cheers:

Locke141:

--- Quote from: dkersten on December 22, 2015, 11:04:00 am ---
A main story arc in "Star Wars: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back" is that while the Millennium Falcon is being chased to Lando Calrissian's Cloud City, Luke Skywalker is learning how to be a Jedi from Yoda. Despite a brief detour in a meteor, the Millennium Falcon seems to get to Cloud City in relatively short time, and since the two scenes are linked that also means Skywalker learned how to be a Jedi in an afternoon.

Granted, in point two, it was mentioned that it should take a long time for the Millennium Falcon to travel, but plot holes shouldn't be used to explain away other plot holes. Don't encourage black holes into "Star Wars."

Anyway, Skywalker does abandon the training early to go save his friends, but when he returns in "Star Wars Episode VI: The Return of the Jedi," Yoda tells him he has nothing left to learn and that all he needs to do now to become a Jedi is to defeat Darth Vader. Surely, young Skywalker could have used more training to defeat Vader than the amount of time it took the Millennium Falcon to visit Calrissian. To make it even more clear that it doesn't take long to get to Cloud City, Skywalker then uses his swamped ship to quickly get to his friends to help them. Something doesn't add up here.

Also, this is a side note, but Obi-Wan Kenobi claims he was trained by Yoda in "Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back," but then in the prequels it's clear he is mainly trained by Qui-Gon Jinn. Yoda doesn't really work long hours.

--- End quote ---

I loved it but I'll admit the above may have been a better ending.

With regards to the expanded universe, Lucas removed him self in the early stages of production. They did not like his outline. From wikipedia: "Abrams said that the key for the film was to return to the roots of the first Star Wars film and be based more on emotion than explanation" I don't think the fact that the movie was similar to E4 is a bad thing and unlike 4 they have the benefit of knowing that there will be two more episodes.

And any one that says there are not plot holes in the original trilogy has some rose colored nerd glasses on.

Here is just one.

--- Quote ---Major Plot Hole: Leia is an emotionless shell of a person. She is given no reaction scene or developed character trauma for any of the following events:
(1) her home planet (not house, not family, not city; PLANET) is destroyed in an unprecedented display of power;
(2) at some point she must realize the man who tortured her and destroyed her planet is her father (Return of the Jedi: she knows she is Luke's brother and that Luke is Vader's son);
(3) she is made into a scantily clad slave-girl by a lascivious, obese alien pervert (insert here: speculations of off-screen violations fit only for Japanese animated porn);
(4) lastly, don't forget the iconic, "wait--what?" revelation of the series: she has kissed her own brother romantically.
The only time she is ever given emotion is upon witnessing Han get frozen in carbonite. Han: the guy who led her on and then didn't even return her "I love you" properly.

--- End quote ---

http://www.movieplotholes.com/star-wars-a-new-hope-plot-holes.html
or here
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/21/star-wars-plot-holes_n_6015682.html

CheffoJeffo:
While I would have liked another hour of film for me to get stuff that ended up in the recycle bin, I have to recognize that it doesn't need to meet my expectations for story structure and narrative/character arc.

To my mind, the best measure of Episode VII's success is the fact that my youngest walks around the house humming the Imperial March and that my two sons spend hours together in the same room playing Battlefront. Neither had previously shown any significant interest in Star Wars despite my best efforts. :cheers:

harveybirdman:
With all due respect Locke, most of those plot holes are created by the prequels which are rubbish and we can't fault the OT for their idiocy.

Also it is implied that Obi Wan was "Wise" to hide them from me. Is it not possible that Obi Wan or even Master Yoda used their force powers to block the Sith from inadvertently discovering the children of Vader?

I have to admit the Yavin Plot Hole is the most intriguing to me, why didn't they just blow up the planet in their way. It's fair, we also have to assume that the Death Star has the capability of traveling through Hyper Space since it can be in the Alderan System and Yavin Systems and the Millennium Falcon clearly traveled past light speed to arrive at the Rebel base. So therefore, why could they not just come out of hyperspace in firing range?

It's funny how things like this are much easier to overlook when there is a compelling story with compelling characters. But here would be my counter point. Much like Xerxes in 300, or the Japanese Army from Last Samurai, the Empire sees the Rebellion as nothing more than fleas with inferior weapons and no REAL threat to their rule. For pete's sake the Death Star defenses were designed to repel a full scale attack from Cruisers and Destroyers (as we see in ROTJ) they never considered that they'd be attacked by 30 single ship Rebel fighters.

The real plot hole might be why didn't they dispatch more of the 1000s of TIEs they must have had on board to overwhelm them but again maybe that speaks to my next point. Perhaps their woeful deployment of TIE's and dramatic orbit of Yavin was intended to allow enough people to escape to spread the message of hopelessness against Imperial rule. This is emphasized in quotes such as "Fear will keep them in line, Fear of this Station." Perhaps Tarken intended to make those pilots watch as their rebellion was ended, only to be captured thereafter by tractor beam and executed live via transmission to all parts of the galaxy.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think the OT holds up MUCH better to criticism than TFA.

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