Dead Player 2 stick - need help with my wiring please

[escapepodgames]

Good Morning!

Working on final prep on my cabinet but the joystick situation is a bit of a mess.  Set-up has two joysticks with 6 buttons each and a Player 1 and Player 2 button.

Player 1 joystick and buttons work great but Player 2 is totally dead.  I know it is not bad hardware as they worked before I screwed it all up...

Odd thing is that in a 2-player game, you can still use the Player 1 controls to play and get points toward P2's score.

I suspect this has something to do with how I am wired into the P1 and P2 buttons.

P1's joystick has a wire that runs to the P1 button but P2s stick does not.  However I tried running a wire from P2 to P2s stick and it did not fix it.

I have checked all the 4 wires that run from P2s joystick and they are continuous all the way down to the board.  However, I am not 100% sure that they go to the RIGHT places.

I know.  I am a noob and it is a mess.  But I am confident that one of you has the answers!

Thanks in advance!  It is my birthday today and if I could get this working it would be a helluva gift!

Steve

[Phreakwars]

Are you in cocktail mode?

[escapepodgames]

Not sure what that means but I would love to find out!  Thanks

[big10p]

You will need to post some pics of your wiring. I suspect ground hasn't been daisy chained properly to your P2 controls, or something.

[PL1]

Odd thing is that in a 2-player game, you can still use the Player 1 controls to play and get points toward P2's score.

Depending on the game, that is normal operation.

Many classic games like Pac-Man, Galaga, and Donkey Kong are alternating 2-player. (2 players take turns using 1 joystick on the original cab)

Have you tried your setup with a simultaneous 2-player game like Bubble Bobble, Joust, or Mortal Kombat? (original cab had separate controls for P1 and P2)

If the simultaneous 2-player games work, the problem is definitely not with your wiring.

P1's joystick has a wire that runs to the P1 button but P2s stick does not.  However I tried running a wire from P2 to P2s stick and it did not fix it.

I have checked all the 4 wires that run from P2s joystick and they are continuous all the way down to the board.  However, I am not 100% sure that they go to the RIGHT places.

If the simultaneous games mentioned above don't work, I recommend taking MAME and MAME configuration out of the equation.

Open Notepad and see if P2's joystick and buttons register as keypresses.

If none or only a few of them register, there is a wiring problem -- probably with the daisy-chain ground.


Scott

[Phreakwars]

Odd thing is that in a 2-player game, you can still use the Player 1 controls to play and get points toward P2's score.

Depending on the game, that is normal operation.

Many classic games like Pac-Man, Galaga, and Donkey Kong are alternating 2-player. (2 players take turns using 1 joystick on the original cab)

Have you tried your setup with a simultaneous 2-player game like Bubble Bobble, Joust, or Mortal Kombat? (original cab had separate controls for P1 and P2)

If the simultaneous 2-player games work, the problem is definitely not with your wiring.

P1's joystick has a wire that runs to the P1 button but P2s stick does not.  However I tried running a wire from P2 to P2s stick and it did not fix it.

I have checked all the 4 wires that run from P2s joystick and they are continuous all the way down to the board.  However, I am not 100% sure that they go to the RIGHT places.

If the simultaneous games mentioned above don't work, I recommend taking MAME and MAME configuration out of the equation.

Open Notepad and see if P2's joystick and buttons register as keypresses.

If none or only a few of them register, there is a wiring problem -- probably with the daisy-chain ground.
I have

Scott

yep that's why I asked if he was in cocktail mode. On my cell just too lazy to type out an explanation

[Phreakwars]

Now that I am home and can type on a normal keyboard... Yes, like PL1 said.. open up notepad and see if the joystick direction presses register on the screen. I actually had this same prob a while back when I was working on my son's cocktail cabinet.



This went on for about a day before I had my "DUH" moment and realized the second player won't work unless I was in cocktail mode.

Open up, say.. street fighter 2 and run it in 2 player and see what happens... If it works for you then, then you know the problem is your trying to run a 2 player game that alternates player 1 joysticks for player 2, and the problem is NOT the joystick itself.

[escapepodgames]

Hi guys - sorry been away for a bit...

I have tried 2-player simultaneous games (like Tiger Heli) and the Player 2 side is totally dead.

I'm really REALLY new to this and have no idea how to access Notepad, etc or if it is even possible on this machine.

I plan to build one of these from the ground up next time but this one is just an exterior renovation with a few needed wiring fix-ups.

Thanks again for all the help - let me know if there is somewhere I can go next as the guy who sold it to me says he can fix it but its gonna cost me 150 bucks for the hour.

I do know that the stick worked perfectly before.

Here is what happened.

At first it was the Player 1 side that was dead so I wrote down where everything was in a crude diagram and switched sticks (in an attempt to narrow down whether it was a bad stick, etc)

When I did this, Player 1 worked OK but Player 2's stick was all crazy (right was left, left was right, up and down did not work) and I switched the right and left wires to see if I simply hadt hem crossed but then nothing worked...

Sorry for the long reply but figured I should tell all that I know.

Thanks!

[Phreakwars]

Yeah, that sounds weird as hell. Post pics of what you got. And $150 to "fix" it, is complete robbery. For $150, I could buy all new joysticks, all new buttons, all new wires, a new iPac and dinner for my family.

[escapepodgames]

lol I am a bit ashamed of my wiring but please understand this is all temporary.  Once I know for certain where it all goes I will make it more permanent and neat.

The first pic is Player 1 as seen from underneath  Second pic is P2

Thanks!

[JDFan]

Yeah, that sounds weird as hell. Post pics of what you got. And $150 to "fix" it, is complete robbery. For $150, I could buy all new joysticks, all new buttons, all new wires, a new iPac and dinner for my family.

^This

DO you know what type of encoder is being used ? IT's really hard to help without knowing more about it - take some pics of the existing wiring and pieces and we'll be able to help more.

Figure in most case the joysticks will be wired with 8 wires (2 to each direction) 1 wire hooked to the NO and 1 hooked to the common connector on the switches ( Unless you have Japanese Joysticks which will only have 5 wires ( 1 for each direction and 1 for the common ground) those wires will go to the encoder (depending on which type of encoder the exact position of the wire will vary) Then the encoder will run to the PC ( if using a PC in the system) etc.

SO very hard to detail what you need to do without knowing what specific parts are being dealt with -- so pics and some more info would help. Also with the wiring the way it sounds like from your description it might be easier to just start from the begining to ensure something weird is not happening ( and if the guy asking for $150 to fix it is the guy that originally wired it up I'd be inclined to pass !)  but again hard to say without a bit more info to get started. 


EDIT : Just saw your pics and all I can say is OUCH !!

As I thought might be easier to start from scratch - DO you have a soldering iron and know how to use it ??

Quick note on what I see in your second player pic :



FIrst off several wires missing connections and several ground wires running to wrong connection - IN the pic each Joystick direction should have 2 connections to it 1 for ground ( this is the orangeish wire running to the upper connector on each switch as it runs from 1 switch to the next which is fine but all 4 directions should have one of these connections (see red circles and X's I put in the pic)

SO looking at the pic you can see on the right side the red circle on the switch with a 6 on it has that orange wire coming from the switch to the left correctly (from the top ground of that switch to the top ground connection of the next switch but then runs to the wrong connection on the next switch ( see red X ) athat should go to the top ground of that switch.

The ground wire runs in a loop from one switch to the next always on the top Ground connection of the switch (that way the 1 wire grounds all switches) and then runs back to the ground connection on the encoder)

THen you need one more connection from each switch back to the encoder spot for that direction ( See the red and Yellow wire in the pic for correct connection that should run back to the encoder - seems red is UP and yellow is Left - but the other 2 are wrong (either have a ground connected to them or no wire at all ??)

Same goes for the player buttons -- Each should have one connection to the current GREEN wire that runs from 1 button to the next and then that goes back to the encoder hokked to a ground location and then each button should have another wire (different for each button) that runs back to the encoder connection for that button (ie. from button 1 to encoder location for P2 button1

Hope you can read that !! but to quickly summarize best bet is to start over with the wiring -- to do that run one wire from the encoder ground to each switch on the joystick and/or buttons top ground location ( so this one wire can run to all 4 joystick switches and each of the 6 buttons to the same connection on the switch and then to the next switch (so the 1 wire will connect to all 10 switches on the top connector) THis will make a ground loop) or you could run 1 wire to each of the 4 joystick connectors and another wire to each of the 6 buttons and then connect those 2 both to the ground connection on the encoder -- either way will work but you need 1 connection from each of the switches that links back to the ground on the encoder.

THen after you have each switch grounded you want to run 1 wire from the encoder location for that button to the corresponding switch and connect to the NO (normally open) connector - so for example the Red wire runs from the joystick up back to the encoder Player 2 Joystick Up encoder connection, the Yellow Wire runs from the Joystick Left switch NO connection back to the encoder P2 Joy Up encoder connection -- etc. etc. etc. for all 6 buttons and 4 joystick directions.

It really is easy if you start at the beginning rather than trying to figure out what is currently going on as right now that white wire, green wire, orange wire, etc. are running to several connections in different places which should not be !! Each switch needs 2 connections to the encoder 1 for the NO connection that goes to the encoder at the corresponding input (ie. joy2 Up, Joy2 Down, Button 1, button 5, etc.) and 1 for the ground (these can be a single wire run from 1 connection to the next always on the ground connector or can be up to 1 wire directly to each connection back to the encoder ground) 

[escapepodgames]

OK here you go.

It would help me out a lot as a beginner if you could identify these parts so I know what I am dealing with and can try to communicate better.  this also helps me learn and is much appreciated.

I took some pics of anything that was not obviously a power source, monitor hardware etc.

Thanks again!

Steve

[JDFan]

Looks like you have a JAMMA connector there ( Black Connector in Pics 1 and 2 where all your button/joystick wires run !) so what you will need to do is verify the pinout using something like this :



Figure what you want to do is run a ground wire as mentioned earlier to each top connection on the switches and back to on of the 4 ground connections on the Jamma connector ( bottom 4 shown on wiring diagram above Pins 27, 28, e, and f ) can use one wire for all connections by using a loop like was done on existing wiring (where the same wire runs to each connection and from that connection to the next switch etc. until all are wired) or can split them in any combination you want as long as at least 1 connection goes from each switch's ground connector (top connection on the microswitches)  to one of the ground wires. (Personally I'd probably do 4 wires - 1 to each player 1 and player 2 joystick from one direction to the next in a circle (ie. from jamma connection to ground switch connection of player 2 Up, from player 2 up to player 2 Left, from player 2 Left to Player 2 Down, from Player 2 Down to Player 2 right and I would then also go from player 2 right back to Player 2 up ( So the same wire connects twice to the Up switch ground that way your connections ground in both directions so if 1 comes off the grounds to the others is still there) and 1 to each player 1 and player 2 button set (same as the joysticks but run from jamma connection to Player 1 button 1 ground connection - to button 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and back from 6 to 1 (again to provide the second direction of flow)

Then run a wire from each button connection and direction conection on the jamma connector (connections 17 to 26 and U to d on the jamma conector) to each of the corresponding NO connection on the switches ( ie from 17 to Player 1 Start button switch NO connection, from 18 to Player 1 Joystick Up, etc.)

Note since you are using 6 buttons you probably have a slightly modified Jamma connector that uses connections 11 and M for the player 1 and 2 button 6 (it is shown as no connection in the diagram I posted above since original Jamma did not support 6 buttons) but you will need to verify by connecting a switch to the Jamma connector 17 and also the other side of the switch to ground and see if that activates button 6 when pressed.

Though this will take some time running all new wiring to both joysticks and button sets it will ensure everything is connected properly and save time in the long run over just trying to trace every current wire and make sure they are going to the right places !!

[escapepodgames]

Thanks so much - I think I can probably handle this but may need some more guidance.

However, you cannot see it in the photo too well, but all of my JAMMA slots seem to be labeled in Japanese!

Is it just easier to buy a new JAMMA and plug it right into where this one is, redoing all of it as I go?

In that case I will just buy new buttons and joysticks and start from scratch, Lord help me.

But at least when its done I will have learned something!

Thanks,

Steve

[yotsuya]

Thanks so much - I think I can probably handle this but may need some more guidance.

However, you cannot see it in the photo too well, but all of my JAMMA slots seem to be labeled in Japanese!

Is it just easier to buy a new JAMMA and plug it right into where this one is, redoing all of it as I go?

In that case I will just buy new buttons and joysticks and start from scratch, Lord help me.

But at least when its done I will have learned something!

Thanks,

Steve

Just do a new JAMMA harness. It's a good learning opportunity. Get the crimped one from Twisted Quarter.

[escapepodgames]

Should I go ahead and just get the fully loaded version for the extra buttons?

I'm going to order all new buttons and sticks and check in with you guys next week

Yeah yo heck with paying 150 bucks...

Thanks!

[JDFan]

Should I go ahead and just get the fully loaded version for the extra buttons?

I'm going to order all new buttons and sticks and check in with you guys next week

Yeah yo heck with paying 150 bucks...

Thanks!

YEp - since you are using the extra buttons might as well get the one that is already wired for them (not sure if it will be wired for the 6th button using the empty connectors as mentioned before.) -- THen once you get it just move the power wiring etc. that is working correctly to the new harness or splice/solder them on to the new harness and run the new wiring to the joys/buttons - or trace the power wiring etc. also and replace it all to be safe.

Really isn't that hard once yyou get going just take your time and verify the connections as you go ( It will be much easier than trying to correct what you have !) - If the buttons and joys are working no need to replace them all (could just order new microswitches and replace them to avoid having to deal with the soldering someone did on them for quite a bit cheaper than replacing the entire button/joystick !! (twisted Quarter carries them also for about $0.85 each so less than $20 to replace all of the switches)

[Phreakwars]

All I know, is I want some of whatever it was the person who originally wired this was smoking. I'll bet that's some real trippy stuff. But on a serious note.. You don't have to change out the buttons if they press just fine and look fine, just get new microswitches (or de-solder the old ones). Really wouldn't recommend soldering them either. I'd either get new wires with the crimp ends already done, or make my own crimp ends..

[JDFan]

All I know, is I want some of whatever it was the person who originally wired this was smoking. I'll bet that's some real trippy stuff. But on a serious note.. You don't have to change out the buttons if they press just fine and look fine, just get new microswitches. Really wouldn't recommend soldering them either. I'd either get new wires with the crimp ends already done, or make my own crimp ends..

Yeppers pretty interesting wiring to say the least 

[paigeoliver]

$150 for a service call to come over and fix someone's mame wiring nightmare is actually relatively reasonable.

[escapepodgames]

Ok guys,

I'm going over to twistdquarter.com tomorrow and ordering everything (new sticks, buttons, JAMMA, etc).  I trust you and know that you will get me through it 

Before I do, though - a few quick questions/concerns.

This new JAMMA should slide right into my board to replace the other with no big surprises right?

Then its just a simple matter of running the right wires to their proper places on the buttons, joysticks?

And you guys can help me hook up the extra buttons?  This JAMMA only provides for 5 buttons/side and I have 6.

Finally, while I am at it I want to do LED buttons for the two main buttons/side for games like 1941, etc.  You guys can talk me through any extra/different stuff for those?

I look forward to months down the road where I have learned enough here to help the next guy, and I am very grateful with your patience with me.  I am diving into this with a crazy machine but in the end I think that will make me a stronger cabinet builder.

Steve

[JDFan]

$150 for a service call to come over and fix someone's mame wiring nightmare is actually relatively reasonable.

True enough - but if you were the person that did this wiring job in the first place would charging $150 to repair it after you did this to it seem right ?? (see pics posted earlier)

Ok guys,

I'm going over to twistdquarter.com tomorrow and ordering everything (new sticks, buttons, JAMMA, etc).  I trust you and know that you will get me through it 

Before I do, though - a few quick questions/concerns.

This new JAMMA should slide right into my board to replace the other with no big surprises right?

Then its just a simple matter of running the right wires to their proper places on the buttons, joysticks?

And you guys can help me hook up the extra buttons?  This JAMMA only provides for 5 buttons/side and I have 6.

Finally, while I am at it I want to do LED buttons for the two main buttons/side for games like 1941, etc.  You guys can talk me through any extra/different stuff for those?

I look forward to months down the road where I have learned enough here to help the next guy, and I am very grateful with your patience with me.  I am diving into this with a crazy machine but in the end I think that will make me a stronger cabinet builder.

Steve

That's pretty much all there is to it - as far as the 6th button prior to taking the old wiring out check where the NO connection traces back to connect on the jamma board (chances are they run to pins 11 and M which show No connection in the diagram I posted earlier - since those are the 2 extra empty spots that are normally used for a 6th button per side but try to verify before removing the old wires from those 2 old buttons.

[escapepodgames]

I will try but how can I check if they are in Chinese/Japanese lol

I'm going to remove the whole thing tomorrow including sticks and buttons. I promise I will do you guys proud when we hook it all back up. Properly colored wires with proper connections all run through a nice plastic conduit down to the bottom. I used to wire stuff for show cars so I plan to have a nice clean system!

[JDFan]

I will try but how can I check if they are in Chinese/Japanese lol

I'm going to remove the whole thing tomorrow including sticks and buttons. I promise I will do you guys proud when we hook it all back up. Properly colored wires with proper connections all run through a nice plastic conduit down to the bottom. I used to wire stuff for show cars so I plan to have a nice clean system!

Just count the pin location and compare to the diagram ( ie. 1-28 on left side and A - f on right ) - the pins will be the same 28 for both sides on the old connector and the new one so doesn't really matter what langauge it is in the pin 18 will be for Player 1 joystick UP no matter which langauge it is printed in !

[DeLuSioNal29]

First things first, you need to know the basics of wiring a microswitch (ground and switches).
These videos below are old but they still apply.  Watch them!  It's VERY simple once you know!




DeLuSioNaL29

[escapepodgames]

Hi Guys

Ordered a new set of JAMMA, sticks and buttons which will all arrive tomorrow.

I've been getting myself ready by studying the plans the JDFan posted and making sure I know where the speaker, monitor etc are going to go.

Question: Take a look at the attached pic.  I have 5 wires beyond what go into the JAMMA that go into the board beneath where the JAMMA blade goes.  Any idea why?  I have not traced them all back yet but at least one goes up to one of my buttons...

I'd like to start clearing all the old stuff out but figured I better wait until I post this.

What is the board called that the JAMMA attaches to?

All part of my training - thanks!