Newbie question - USB or IPAC

[MtlPatou]

Hello, I've been reading this forum and others for over a month now. I'm planning on building my first cab and there's so many elements to consider that I'm leaning on building a single CP to begin with and Connecting it to my PC and TV, that way I simplify the project and I can get use to the hardware and software without the woodwork, display and power supply element.

So my question is pretty basic, I see joystick that are USB (and buttons can be connected to) and many post around using IPAC as encoder. What is the best way to go and what should I consider before making my choice?

The question might not make sense, and if not I probably missing a concept or two, then I need more help and will gladly take any advice provided.

Thanks

[Malenko]

IPACs can hook up via USB so I don't really understand the question.

[MtlPatou]

That's probably what I'm missing out...

For example what's the difference between these 2 joystick in terms of how they're connected?
http://www.ultimarc.com/servostik.html

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=407

One seems to connect directly with a usb cable and the other look like it needs a control interface.

Maybe the question is, do I absolutely need an encoder (like an IPAC2) to build a 2 players, 7 buttons, trackball and spinner control panel? If not what is the best route in your opinion?

I'm learning everyday reading the forum but I would like to start building my own as I feel I'll learn even more from the doing and building it.

Is there a good guide on how to select and connect your controls? I mean, there's tons of information but I'm kind of confuse on where to start?

Thanks

[Vigo]

Yes, you need an encoder to connect arcade controls to your computer. Some controls, like the ultrastick 360 have an encoder built in, so they are plugged in from the joystick, but you will still probably need an encoder for the bulk of your controls. You really can't just directly wire controls from a an arcade button to a pc and have it work.

The question is which encoder or encoders will you need. For the layout you described, you will probably want to go with a basic 2 player control encoder and an optical encoder that can do a trackball and a spinner at the same time.

This book is gonna be the best guide that lays everything out:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047089153X/

[Malenko]

Welp, lets slow down a little.

The servo stick uses USB to control the 4way/8way switcher. Both the Servo Stick and Dominix require an encoder to have the 4 micro switches on them send a signal to the PC. The servo stick can switch between 4way and 8 way with either a command that makes the USB connection rotate the restricter plate or a hard wired button / toggle switch. The Dominix uses restricter plates that you install so switching between 4 and 8 way means manually switching the plates.  The major difference is one uses cherry style switches and the other uses leafs.

There's a huge debate as to what switch is best for what but all that matters in that respect is what YOU prefer. Don't feed the trolls

When it comes to encoders I typically use an IPAC2 but I have used GGG's KeyWiz , you cant really go wrong with either. Both do pretty much the exact same thing.  When you bring up things like a trackball and a spinner it opens up other things you need.  The simplest solution for a spinner would be a Turbo Twist 2 from GGG. Trackball.......most people hack a mouse AFAIK. Ive never made a panel with a trackball so unfortunately Im zero help with that.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I think what the OP meant to say was:  USB HID Device or IPac keyboard device.

[Malenko]

I think what the OP meant to say was:  USB HID Device or IPac keyboard device.

Vigo and I both knew what he meant, you can tell by our answers.  I dont like spoon feeding people everything but I still want the guy to learn.

[MtlPatou]

Thanks for helping clarify my interrogations 

By reading even more I found what I need to look for. I do understand more how to build and connect my control panel.

Thank you for putting me on the right track   

[Malenko]

you seem to know what you want in terms of controls (SFNeo + TB+Spinner) but Id still suggest making the panel in cardboard to get everything laid out just the way you want it.  Feel free to keep posting questions and progress pix, we're here to help 

[MtlPatou]

Was thinking about building a mock up in cardboard and your comment just confirmed that is the right thing to do. I'm currently in the shopping phase and as soon as the orders are out I'll jump on the cardboard version.

I also need to make up my mind on the artwork and theme I want my cab.

And yes, more questions will definitely come

Thanks

[AndyWarne]

I think what the OP meant to say was:  USB HID Device or IPac keyboard device.

This doesnt really make sense as a question though as a keyboard is a HID device. If the OP is asking whether keyboard or game controller device, the I-PAC is both and all controls can be assigned as keyboard keys or game controller controls (or power, volume etc).

[empardopo]

For me, the best and cheapest option (if your PC has parallel port) is the IPP(port parallel interface).
You can look an example here(in spanish).

Greetings.

[MtlPatou]

Well, my question was more around how to connect all this together... After your clarification and some additional research on the web, this is the conclusion I came up with:

                                                               _______
Joystick (2) ---------------------------->|            |
Action Buttons (2x6) ------------------>|            |
P1&P2 start button (2) ---------------->|            |
Coins buttons (2)  --------------------->|IPAC2 | -----USB-------> Computer
Admin button (3) ---------------------->|            |
Trackball ------------------------------->|            |
Spinner -------------------------------->|______|


So is it making sense?

[Vigo]

Take trackball and spinner off that diagram, they either need to be USB ready or need a separate optical encoder. You could have something like this:

                                                               _______
Joystick (2) ---------------------------->|            |
Action Buttons (2x6) ------------------>|            |
P1&P2 start button (2) ---------------->|            |
Coins buttons (2)  --------------------->|IPAC2 | -----USB-------> Computer
Admin button (3) ---------------------->|______|

                                                                ________
Trackball ------------------------------->| Optipac| (or other optical encoder) ----------USB---------> computer
Spinner -------------------------------->|_______|

[MtlPatou]

Ok, from what I gather from Ultimarc website, the new IPAC2 has trackball and Spinner connectivity capabilities...

Ultimarc website: http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html
I-PAC 2  (32 Inputs plus trackball and spinner connector/PAC-Link expansion)

But if you tell me I'm better with the Optipac, I don't have any constraint going that way.

[Ginsu Victim]

Ok, from what I gather from Ultimarc website, the new IPAC2 has trackball and Spinner connectivity capabilities...

Ultimarc website: http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html
I-PAC 2  (32 Inputs plus trackball and spinner connector/PAC-Link expansion)

But if you tell me I'm better with the Optipac, I don't have any constraint going that way.

Oh, nice! I wasn't aware of this change to more recent IPAC2s.

[Vigo]

I didn't know that either. Yeah, I think you can put it all on one encoder, no problem. 

[diggso]

I didn't realise that the new ipac could do this either. On my previous build I had serious problems with the usb trackball and spinners getting randomly assigned as mouse 2x, 3x etc. and it was a major pain in the hole.
Has anyone actually used the new ipac to connect multiple analog controls? I'd love to hear if it worked out.

[EMDB]

The biggest advantage of an iPAC over a game controller in my humble opinion is the fact that most emulators and frontends can handle keyboard input much better than native Windows joystick control. I read a lot of people having problems controlling their cab with a joystick ending up mapping the sticks buttons to keystrokes again (e.g. using XPadder or something similar)

[DeLuSioNal29]

 The new ipac2 also supports xbox360. It requires an additional adapter, but it will make your controls Steam friendly and will work with all Xbox 360 compatible games. This is the route that I will be taking.

[skipsinclair]

A note on keyboard input, however:

I had a LOT of problems with my setup whenever I used the default keystroke config that came with the IPAC Ultimate I/O.  Somewhere between 10-20 mins of play, the IPAC would totally bomb out, I'd lose ALL buttons, no response.  If I unplugged/plugged the IPAC, everything would come back fine for another 10-20 mins.  Really odd behavior.

I've always had doubts about repeatedly hammering CTRL, ALT, and SHIFT keys on a Win7 machine.  Seen too many odd states of those keys, regardless of accessibility settings, sometimes sticky ctrl, sometimes an ALT that wouldn't release... so, within the IPAC mapping SW, I forced the first four buttons on P1 to be gamepad buttons.  Remapped MAME, boom.  No problems so far with at least a couple of 30 mins play sessions.  IPAC seems stable now.

I think something was too sensitive on the Win7 build, and kept disconnecting the keyboard device with all the weird activity.  Dunno.  Once I switched it FROM keyboard input to gamepad buttons, no more problems (for now).

[ladysephiroth]

Take trackball and spinner off that diagram, they either need to be USB ready or need a separate optical encoder. You could have something like this:

                                                               _______
Joystick (2) ---------------------------->|            |
Action Buttons (2x6) ------------------>|            |
P1&P2 start button (2) ---------------->|            |
Coins buttons (2)  --------------------->|IPAC2 | -----USB-------> Computer
Admin button (3) ---------------------->|______|

                                                                ________
Trackball ------------------------------->| Optipac| (or other optical encoder) ----------USB---------> computer
Spinner -------------------------------->|_______|

Isn't there an option if you don't mind extra cables (I don't, maybe I'm weird) to order the trackball and spinner with native USB input? Yeah you have extra tails on your control but is it easier for a new person, reading about some of the issues you've all had with things being recognized oddly?