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dkersten:

--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on April 06, 2016, 12:18:45 am ---dkersten: It isn't about the any deviations from the comics being bad.... Hershel was a welcomed surprise after all... it's about the fact that certain members of the writing staff are hacks, so they need the structure of the comics to help as Kirkman actually is a competent writer. That Dinkel guy.... he's an utter hack. Every time they give him an episode to write he butchers it. Nicotero is ok, but the fact that he's a SFX guy is obvious because all of his shows have these elaborate gags that often detract from the story.
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I can buy that, but then the issue is getting better writers, not insisting that the only way the show will be good is if they follow the comics.

I have never tracked which writer/director does each show to look for trends, I just watch and enjoy. Sure, some episodes aren't as good, or maybe I don't even like what they did, but I feel like the producers have the final say in how things play out and the director influences more of the quality of the show than the writers, especially given how much talent is there to overcome even some shady writing. So if an episode really stinks then one of two things is going on: either the thing I didn't like was intended and will matter in later episodes, or everyone dropped the ball, not just the writer. Since I don't have a standard to hold against it, I don't judge it by any other criteria than whether I still enjoy the series.

--- Quote ---The bad writing on Fear has no excuse. I don't get what you mean about it having the dreaded "prequel-itis" because it is NOT a true prequel... it's a spin-off. It's set in the same universe but it's on the other side of the country and nothing that happens on that show, aside from the fact that it's a zombie apocalypse, has anything to do with the main show nor will any decisions the writing staff make, aside from the zombie rules, have any effect on it. So long as they stay away from Georgia and D.C. the writing staff can do whatever they want without consequence.
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What I mean is that we, the audience, already knows what is going on, and how it will end for the characters. There is NOTHING new here, other than the details of how things play out. The entire first season of Fear is just teaching the characters what we already know. That makes it boring no matter how you spin it. The only tension here is the same as you find in an 80's horror flick - you want to yell at the characters on the screen to NOT open that door because you already know there is a guy with a machete or axe on the other side ready to chop them to pieces. Furthermore, any fan of TWD (show or comics) already has preconceived notions of how things were when the zombie apocalypse started, and if the writing doesn't live up to what we already have in our heads, it is going to disappoint. Those are some big handicaps for any writer to overcome.
How often do prequels of well established stories or movies work out well for the fanbase? Almost never, because it is hard to please an audience that already decided what happened. Just because it happened in a different city doesn't make it a whole different story, it just means we have characters that might survive what we know is coming.

I think the second season will determine whether the show has decent writing. The hardest part is over and the cat is now out of the bag, and while the characters don't know the full extent of what is happening yet, they are in the same boat that Rick and his gang were in back in season 1. If they can't pull out a decent show from here then it has no future. I don't think it is a great show yet, but it still has potential.

--- Quote ---It's obvious that they don't know how to write a proper cliff-hanger. It's not that hard... something important is supposed to happen and just when the cast is about to deal with the fallout .... "to be continued".
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So they are trying to get a primary character to a doctor so she doesn't die, and her health is rapidly declining (something important has to happen for her to survive). All paths are blocked and they soon realize they are puppets in a play they are not controlling. Then ALL the important characters in the story are captured with NO HOPE of getting away. And one is going to die. As the proverbial axe comes down (i.e. the fallout), the show ends. How is this not exactly what you described??

I see it as the cliffhanger being too intense without enough resolution to satisfy while still keeping us dying to find out what happens next. They built the tension up to the highest it has ever been in the show and then stopped right at the peak, leaving us hanging not for a week, but for several months. By the time the show starts up again, the feelings evoked in this episode are going to pass and the resolution that allows the story to continue will feel weak and forced, no matter how well it is done. It would have been better to line everyone up and have Negan come out and say "Hi, I'm Negan, and one of you is going to die tonight." and end it right there... That would leave us in suspense while saving the tension builder for the season opener. BETTER YET, do this at the 75 minute mark, when we expect 15 more minutes of show, so not only is it a cliffhanger, but an unexpected one at that...

BadMouth:

--- Quote from: dkersten on April 06, 2016, 11:05:46 am ---So they are trying to get a primary character to a doctor so she doesn't die, and her health is rapidly declining (something important has to happen for her to survive). All paths are blocked and they soon realize they are puppets in a play they are not controlling. Then ALL the important characters in the story are captured with NO HOPE of getting away. And one is going to die. As the proverbial axe comes down (i.e. the fallout), the show ends. How is this not exactly what you described??

I see it as the cliffhanger being too intense without enough resolution to satisfy while still keeping us dying to find out what happens next. They built the tension up to the highest it has ever been in the show and then stopped right at the peak, leaving us hanging not for a week, but for several months. By the time the show starts up again, the feelings evoked in this episode are going to pass and the resolution that allows the story to continue will feel weak and forced, no matter how well it is done. It would have been better to line everyone up and have Negan come out and say "Hi, I'm Negan, and one of you is going to die tonight." and end it right there... That would leave us in suspense while saving the tension builder for the season opener. BETTER YET, do this at the 75 minute mark, when we expect 15 more minutes of show, so not only is it a cliffhanger, but an unexpected one at that...

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1. Who said anyone died? Negan only said he was going to beat the crap out of someone.
There were also a few characters present who nobody would care about being killed.
....so why would I think an important character was killed?
Especially after they've made it look like important characters were killed so often and then didn't follow through.
Hell, they won't even kill off the secondary characters I don't like.

If anyone died, I'm hoping it was mullet genius guy.
He's been kept on way too long, as has the preacher.

harveybirdman:
I haven't read most of the newer arcs in the comics, but I'm pretty sure bot Eugene and Father Gabriel are still alive.... Sorry Badmouth.

Howard_Casto:

--- Quote from: harveybirdman on April 06, 2016, 12:24:49 pm ---I haven't read most of the newer arcs in the comics, but I'm pretty sure bot Eugene and Father Gabriel are still alive.... Sorry Badmouth.

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Yeah they are crucial characters in the book. Eugene is the star of the show on tv, so I'm not sure why you'd want him gone.... he's the only one that makes this crappy grim dark orgy of false tension watchable.

dkersten:

--- Quote from: BadMouth on April 06, 2016, 12:01:39 pm ---1. Who said anyone died? Negan only said he was going to beat the crap out of someone.
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This is true, but that wasn't my point. If you wanted to improve on the cliffhanger, he should come out and say that and then end the season there, leaving the suspense without building the tension to the limits. It wouldn't even matter if it was true or not because the debate would be about whether it will go down that way or not, not about who got their head caved in and whether they will survive. Besides, that is Negan's MO.. Kill one person to set the example and prove that he can and will kill you for ANY reason. The ONLY reason to have him break character and move away from killing someone here is to appease the fans.

--- Quote ---There were also a few characters present who nobody would care about being killed.
....so why would I think an important character was killed?
--- End quote ---
Because they created a dilemma here - if they don't kill someone important off, they will lose fans who think the show is as you say - too chickenshit to kill of anyone important, hence making them all safe. If they DO kill of someone important they will lose fans who only watched because they liked that character. If they just have him beat someone nearly to death they will paint the Negan character as too compassionate and he will just end up being another Governor to deal with.

So who should they kill? At this point to kill the Latino chick (the only really unimportant character as far as I am concerned) is cheap and ultimately doesn't matter. At best the chick (didn't even bother to remember her name because she is expendable to me) is a crush for Eugene. Eugene *might* be considered unimportant at this time (as far as the show is concerned, not looking at comic line) because he already gave the plans to Rick for making ammo. Aside from his "colorful" character, there is no emotional tie to him. Everyone else will either have an emotional tie for me as a viewer, or an important part in the show. Killing one of them would truly change the story.

Personally I am torn over which way to go, and this is the problem... by the time the show comes back on I will be prepared for any kind of outcome and it won't hit me at all. It will just be what it is, and there is no way to not start the next season off on a downhill slide (in terms of tension and emotion).

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