BYOAC Talking Dead - Walking Dead Season 5

Main > Everything Else

<< < (74/84) > >>

dkersten:

--- Quote from: harveybirdman on April 05, 2016, 02:49:04 pm ---The real question is that if they deviate from source material is the resulting story going to be any good?

I mean look at Fear, they have a blank script.... and so far it's garbage comparatively.

I mean c'mon if they get too far from the comics it's going to suck, and not just because the book is always better than the movie.

--- End quote ---
I disagree with this. In short, it is saying that the writers have no talent (or already blew their only original ideas on the comic) and cannot create something worthwhile on their own.

Frankly, the only real upside they have by sticking with the comics is in not alienating fans of the comic, hence keeping a dedicated fanbase. As someone who never read the comic I see the show through different eyes than those who read it, and I think the show as a whole is still as strong as ever, regardless of how much it has deviated from the comic.

When I look at shows I watch that are based on good books that I read, I have a hard time both not judging it and seeing it as its own entity. I don't see Game of Thrones as a show by itself, I see it as a show that is recreating the book and starting to deviate. So in that situation I was happy when they stuck to the story and not happy when they deviated.

BUT, there are shows where deviation works out for the better. Bosch deviated from the story in the first season, but it allowed the story to take an original direction that wouldn't have worked if they had followed the books closer. I get to watch season two with "fresh eyes" and I like it.

So I think a lot of what you are saying has to do with your situation. You KNOW the story and nothing short of following it will "be as good". However, my disagreement is more with that idea that an author can't possibly do better once he does it well the first time. Authors seldom have only one idea in their head, and while some can show talent on one story but then never show talent again, usually it follows that if they can do it well once they can do it well again. If anything, I would say that this is their chance to look back and see how they could make the story better, and by doing so they have a better chance of the story improving the more it deviates.

Fear is, IMHO, a bad example of "original" writing. They had to create a spinoff that does not contradict the main story in any way while keeping the author in a box that has already been built, and still expect him to write a good original story. Not saying it can't be done, but it is far more difficult to be original if you are confined like that. It is FAR easier to write the next chapter than to write what happened before chapter 1. Just my 2 cents as a writer.

Oh, and I was not happy that they left us hanging... Even when Glenn got trapped and we all figured he was dead, my feelings about it only lasted a day or two. By the time they got back to it, I was almost disappointed he was still alive. I had already gotten over it, and I simply didn't care one way or another. Even the characters in the story had written him off. In several months I will start the new season and while I will wonder who died, it will be academic in nature, not an emotional investment. They could kill off any of them, or even many of them, and all that would matter is how the story will change after this. But the other night, watching that scene was downright difficult. I FELT the anger, fear, and regret over the situation, and I couldn't have swallowed that "pill" if I were in their shoes. I wanted Negan dead at any cost. And I was gripping the edge of the seat fiercely waiting to find out who he was going to kill off, hoping it would be the Latino chick, but wondering how it would be to kill Glenn, Maggie, or even Rick or Daryl. But now, just a few days later, I no longer feel it. In fact, I almost don't care. When I find out, it will be interesting, but I will be too prepared for any, none, or even all to die for it to really move me.

Howard_Casto:

--- Quote from: BadMouth on April 05, 2016, 03:58:20 pm ---Negan was cool. The ending was lame. As was the ending of the previous episode. As was the mid-season cliffhanger.
Sweaty, losing his mind Rick is just annoying. Pretty sure I made this same complaint in a previous season.

As far as Carol's flip. It took place way too fast, over only a couple episodes which was ridiculous IMO.

--- End quote ---

That's how PTSD works.... your switch just flips all the sudden and all that repressed emotion overwhelms you. So it's a fairly accurate depiction although I'm fairly certain this happened in spite of the writing staff and not because of it.

dkersten: It isn't about the any deviations from the comics being bad.... Hershel was a welcomed surprise after all... it's about the fact that certain members of the writing staff are hacks, so they need the structure of the comics to help as Kirkman actually is a competent writer. That Dinkel guy.... he's an utter hack. Every time they give him an episode to write he butchers it. Nicotero is ok, but the fact that he's a SFX guy is obvious because all of his shows have these elaborate gags that often detract from the story.

The bad writing on Fear has no excuse. I don't get what you mean about it having the dreaded "prequel-itis" because it is NOT a true prequel... it's a spin-off. It's set in the same universe but it's on the other side of the country and nothing that happens on that show, aside from the fact that it's a zombie apocalypse, has anything to do with the main show nor will any decisions the writing staff make, aside from the zombie rules, have any effect on it. So long as they stay away from Georgia and D.C. the writing staff can do whatever they want without consequence.

It's obvious that they don't know how to write a proper cliff-hanger. It's not that hard... something important is supposed to happen and just when the cast is about to deal with the fallout .... "to be continued". One of the best ones I can think of was the borg two-parter on Star Trek: TNG. They end part one showing that Picard is assimilated... holy crap! Now you knew he wasn't going to die, he's the star, but how were they going to save him and what would be the fate of the crew? That's how you do it.... death is a cheap gimmick because even with a show like this, none of the principal cast is going to die... what you do is put the cast in an impossible situation, so when you cut, the audience can get excited about how they are going to pull it off. The Terminus cliffhanger, despite the lack-luster payoff, was how you do it. I think they stumbled into it at random though.

smass:

--- Quote from: BadMouth on April 05, 2016, 03:58:20 pm ---Negan was cool. The ending was lame. As was the ending of the previous episode. As was the mid-season cliffhanger.
Sweaty, losing his mind Rick is just annoying. Pretty sure I made this same complaint in a previous season.

As far as Carol's flip. It took place way too fast, over only a couple episodes which was ridiculous IMO.

--- End quote ---

Keep in mind that this season included a pretty substantial time leap forward. At least a few months went by after Carl got shot in the eye. Carol's transformation could seem sudden in the context of the few weeks between episodes, but it was months in Walking Dead time...

BadMouth:

--- Quote from: dkersten on April 05, 2016, 07:18:01 pm ---Oh, and I was not happy that they left us hanging... Even when Glenn got trapped and we all figured he was dead, my feelings about it only lasted a day or two. By the time they got back to it, I was almost disappointed he was still alive. I had already gotten over it, and I simply didn't care one way or another. Even the characters in the story had written him off. In several months I will start the new season and while I will wonder who died, it will be academic in nature, not an emotional investment. They could kill off any of them, or even many of them, and all that would matter is how the story will change after this. But the other night, watching that scene was downright difficult. I FELT the anger, fear, and regret over the situation, and I couldn't have swallowed that "pill" if I were in their shoes. I wanted Negan dead at any cost. And I was gripping the edge of the seat fiercely waiting to find out who he was going to kill off, hoping it would be the Latino chick, but wondering how it would be to kill Glenn, Maggie, or even Rick or Daryl. But now, just a few days later, I no longer feel it. In fact, I almost don't care. When I find out, it will be interesting, but I will be too prepared for any, none, or even all to die for it to really move me.

--- End quote ---

I had the opposite reaction. I didn't have any emotion watching it because given the last few cliffhangers I knew what they showed or didn't show would have no bearing on anything moving forward. I sat there waiting to get it over with, then rolled my eyes and debated on whether I'd continue to watch the series in the future.
It didn't feel like a cliffhanger. Given the overuse of misdirection I knew it wasn't going to matter what was or wasn't shown.

EDIT: Felt like a cliffhanger on a soap opera where they keep killing off characters and bringing them back later with a lame explanation that doesn't make sense.

Vigo:

--- Quote from: smass on April 06, 2016, 08:42:49 am ---
--- Quote from: BadMouth on April 05, 2016, 03:58:20 pm ---Negan was cool. The ending was lame. As was the ending of the previous episode. As was the mid-season cliffhanger.
Sweaty, losing his mind Rick is just annoying. Pretty sure I made this same complaint in a previous season.

As far as Carol's flip. It took place way too fast, over only a couple episodes which was ridiculous IMO.

--- End quote ---

Keep in mind that this season included a pretty substantial time leap forward. At least a few months went by after Carl got shot in the eye. Carol's transformation could seem sudden in the context of the few weeks between episodes, but it was months in Walking Dead time...

--- End quote ---

Weeks passed and Carl never managed to get a badass, guvnor style eye patch. ;)

I don't accept the time passing excuse for bad character development. Carol has every right to change, but showing her write in her dream journal and realize that she killed 18 people doesn't convince an audience. She never objected to Rick and never experienced a real reason to regret her standpoint, and if anything, her time getting kidnapped and getting caught on the road should have taught her that everything she has done has been to protect herself and others. Her entire group would have been dead a few times over without her.

Navigation

 Message Index

Go to full version