HyperSpin and EmuMovie (still) worth it?

[Benzinbruder]

Hi everybody,

What do you think of subscribing to HyperSpin and EmuMovies? Do you think it is still worth the money?
Especially for HyperSpin, it seems that the whole system of different apps is heavily cluttered and development has more or less stalled. Is that really the case?

90 $ is a lot of money. If it saves you hours and hours of hassle it may still be worth it though.
I am really looking forward to reading your opinions on this!

Benzinbruder

PS: Yeah, I know MaLa is a great alternative.

[headkaze]

GameEx registration is currently 25% off and it entitles you to a free upgrade when the new GameEx Evolution comes out.

[Paul Olson]

It definitely saves time. There are still a lot of people working on artwork stuff over there, and the devs are apparently working on new stuff, but I haven't seen a clear indication of what it is. I think Hyperspin itself is a very small part of the project at this point.

Emumovies is nice to have, so if you want videos for your front end, I would say it is worth it.

I don't really care for the pay model of either of these, but I paid for it and don't really regret it. I don't like that a lot of the HS guys stop any complaints by saying that it is free software and you just made a donation. That seems ingenuous to me. We are all obviously paying for a level of access to that project.

There are a ton of people doing a lot of good work over there, but I really don't know if they are the ones getting the "donations".

[cools]

Good question regarding who gets the donations. For me the value is solely in the wheel art - even when I tried Hyperspin for a while I found the themes consistently terrible. Emu-movies is also great for what it has.

Be aware that you will *have* to have HyperSync set up to get the current artwork from HS, they do not keep the FTP up to date despite it being stated everywhere. The MAME wheel art pack on there is from version 144 for example. This irritates me no end - you pay for access to the art but then can't get it without having a Windows 7 installation and a couple of hundred MB of Hyperspin files you'll never use...

[SegaOutrun]

depends on how big your library is going to be. a few hundred or less? you can do it yourself. All the snapshots are on youtube and you can download them with firefox/opera extensions. Themes and wheel for common systems are free to download in the hyperspin forum. if your library is going to to huge, then it becomes worth it. save soo much time and effort.

one last thing i should mention is that they are not a full database. There are plenty of systems and games that do not have themes. which really sucks because you put so much effort into making a beautiful frontend and as you scroll, you come across a game that does not have theme (boner killer) and sticks out like a sore thumb. So I have had to make my own themes to fill in the gaps. Once you get the hang of the theme structure, its not too hard to make a theme. Often i open a similar theme and overlap the new images. For example, Sega Naomi get heavy rotation on my cabinet but hyperspin only has like 20 themes for a 125+ playable games. I had to make the rest. Im no artist, so they are pretty but im getting better everytime i boot up gimp.

[Benzinbruder]

Thank's for you answers guys.
I am looking into GameEx now as well, it hasn't been on my radar before. It looks quite capable, though it seems not very popular over here!?

I just don't want to spend hours and hours of time into setup and themeing just to see that in the end the chosen FE is not really actively supported by the community. Not to talk about spending 45 $ for a lifteime subscription of abandonware...

[headkaze]

Thank's for you answers guys.
I am looking into GameEx now as well, it hasn't been on my radar before. It looks quite capable, though it seems not very popular over here!?

I just don't want to spend hours and hours of time into setup and themeing just to see that in the end the chosen FE is not really actively supported by the community. Not to talk about spending 45 $ for a lifteime subscription of abandonware...

GameEx is quite popular amongst users here and is very actively being developed. The new version which you will be hearing more about soon is called GameEx Evolution. It has a whole new rendering engine and online system.

One of the key strengths that people tend to credit GameEx for, even in its current incarnation, is the Setup Wizard which makes setting up much easier.

[keilmillerjr]

I use the two for wheel art and movies.

I'm currently using attract-mode front end with my own theme I developed. Check out attract-mode. It's worth a look. Hyper spin is just way to complicated and busy. With attract-mode, I can just set filters and done. No playing around with lists and ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

[lamprey]

Thank's for you answers guys.
I am looking into GameEx now as well, it hasn't been on my radar before. It looks quite capable, though it seems not very popular over here!?

I just don't want to spend hours and hours of time into setup and themeing just to see that in the end the chosen FE is not really actively supported by the community. Not to talk about spending 45 $ for a lifteime subscription of abandonware...

GameEx is quite popular amongst users here and is very actively being developed. The new version which you will be hearing more about soon is called GameEx Evolution. It has a whole new rendering engine and online system.

One of the key strengths that people tend to credit GameEx for, even in its current incarnation, is the Setup Wizard which makes setting up much easier.

I'm not going to lie, I'm being lazy, but is there any sort of preview for GameEx Evolution?

I find GameEx to be too pedestrian looking, thus I prefer Hyperspin (and HyperPin). But, I'm curious what goodies are in store for Evolution..

[Benzinbruder]

One of the key strengths that people tend to credit GameEx for, even in its current incarnation, is the Setup Wizard which makes setting up much easier.

Kudos for this setup wizard, it was really easy to make a quick test setup. Other than that, not so great I am afraid. Even the 150+ MB Space Invaders HD Theme lacks that consistent style I'd hoped for, and overall GameEx really feels slow on my machine. It all seems to be bloated with stuff I do not really need, and even after disabling a lot of features during setup, the option for e.g. watching a DVD still pops up in the menu. Why would I want that?

I really think the ability of browsing through pictures would be kind of cool though (as a family thing), as is the inclusion of a Jukebox which is something I would have wanted on my cabinet anyway.

So I'm kind of torn between things. GameEx sure isn't right for me, but maybe GameEx Evolution is!?
Any more details concerning the upcoming version would therefore really be appreciated.

[Yarb]

I think so, I have used the free stuff for years and today I subscribed to both and went from scratch to a new PC (New for my cab anyways) up and running with art, wheels etc... Made it a LOT easier to get things going quickly. For some odd reason my P4 setup done in 2006 had become very unstable, go figure 

Yarb

[bigster]

It is probably worth it to save time.  I have had emumovies for years and used to use maximum and tried gameex.  I switched over to hyperspin a few months ago.  I didn't get an account because i did not know about it until it was too late.

I used the 90gb torrent to start w/ most art, then i was able to fill in the gaps with the rest of art through forums, etc.  this has taken a considerable amount of time. 

short answer -> if you want to save time, yes worth it.  if you want to save money and have time, you can get all art (except for wiiware, which i cannot find anywhere) online by using google.

[Sparkolicious]

I like hyperspin, but I also have 96 systems set up, and years into it, so having access to that stuff is vital.. If you are just setting up mame it literally takes just a few minutes once you know what you are doing. Hyperlaunch makes it pretty simple. Bottom line is I would donate again in a heart beat.

[Morpheus]

I'm not going to lie, I'm being lazy, but is there any sort of preview for GameEx Evolution?

I find GameEx to be too pedestrian looking, thus I prefer Hyperspin (and HyperPin). But, I'm curious what goodies are in store for Evolution..

There is now. 

[nullPointer]

In reference to the above, the inimitable Headkaze has provided some additional details about the features highlighted in the video.

Here are some of the new features coming to GameEx Evolution

- GameEx Online (game info, video streaming, pictures, e-Books, configuration all from your browser or mobile device)
- Shaders (effects including scan lines)
- Transitions (many transitions included)
- Animation (keyframe animation support)
- Gif and Swf rendering support
- 3D Models (including animated models)
- Bitmap Fonts (with gradients, strokes & shadow support)
- AddOns (compiled dll’s with the ability to use the rendering engine)
- Scripting (C# or VB.NET editor)
- Layout Editor (for customising your theme)
- Psd import support (Photoshop image format)
- Modern new default theme with HTPC or Arcade version (4:3 or 16:9)
- Rotation and split screen support (with vertical and horizontal themes)
- Coverflow display (with various view modes)
- SubLayouts (layouts within layouts)
- Command.dat support
- Support for rendering HyperSpin themes (natively with no conversion necessary)

[Benzinbruder]

Yup, the video looks promising - at least some of the features are.

I really liked the easy setup when I tried GameEx, but it all looked too Media-Center-esque to me.
Evolution seems to improve this quite a bit, though I am still not sure if the look and feel really changed that much.

When will we have the chance to try this out?

I have already begun setting up HS, but it is not too late... 

[tspeirs]

I have already begun setting up HS, but it is not too late... 

Never too late, never too old.

When we stop tinkering with our cabs that's when we lose interest and get persuaded to move them to the garage where they gather rust for eternity 

[8BitMonk]

I started with GameEx then eventually switched to Hyperspin and haven't regretted it.

For me it came down to aesthetics, I love the wheel concept and the way the themes look. It is a little more difficult to setup but worth the extra effort if you like the look. While there are still some missing themes (mostly for consoles) you can always fill in the gaps with something generic or make your own and contribute to the community. Development on the core app seems to have stopped in the last couple years but the new updates by 3rd party dev's filled the gap nicely. Hypersync makes getting the artwork easier, the new Hyperlaunch makes setup much much easier and they've added a Hyperpause feature which includes the ability to pause and browse all kinds of additional game content (pdf's, flyers, videos, move list etc.).

I think the donation is well worth it.

[tspeirs]

Personally I think it is worth it too. The HyperSpin project is great and sets a high standard. Its been a whole lot of work for us to build something as good or better.

[headkaze]

Personally I think it is worth it too. The HyperSpin project is great and sets a high standard. Its been a whole lot of work for us to build something as good or better.

Emumovies is well worth it too

[Scorpie]

First time user here reporting, and I find that although Hyperspin has a steep learning curve, it's worth it because of so much functionality. I do believe Hyperspin has the most 'potential' on this area. I checked out MaLa but it didnt really appeal to me, it looked a bit flawed and underdeveloped.

Still words from a newbie so no real judgement here

[SpatzST]

I recently subscribed to Emumovies (just to remove download restrictions), theres a lot of content out there, pictures, movies, artwork, control panel layouts, manuals.  I paid the $30 for the year access although it is technically not necessary if you don't mind waiting awhile to download stuff, there is a 250mb/day cap for free users.  Hyperspin is free, you can get all the software and whatever you need without paying.

As for setup.  It is a nightmare.  There are no guides on either website emumovies or hyperspin-fe as to how to setup anything.  I have been trying to figure it out all day searching google and what not.  So far I have got hyperspin running with a few emulators, but the problem arises with naming schemes.  My rom sets are named differently from the hyperspin standard i suppose, and the artwork is named differently than that.  In order for it all to sync up the names must be identical, and I am having a lot of trouble getting them all to match up due to shoddy software with ABSOLUTELY NO GUIDES available or tutorials or FAQS, or ANYTHING.  It's like expected you just know how to do it.

EDIT/UPDATE: So I went platinum with Hyperspin so I can use the HyperSync feature along with Emumovies.... makes the process so much easier.  It just downloads everything and places it where its supposed to be.  I highly recommend it, but I see that you would have to pay about $30 (emu movies yearly) and $45 (hyperspin platinum lifetime)

[Benzinbruder]

Thanks a lot for your input everybody!

I am in the midst of prepping HS for my system, it is a bit of hit and miss, but I am getting somewhere I think.
The C64 romset I have (gamebase) is worrying me the most at the moment, as the rooms seem to named COMPLETELY awkward. At least that's what HS .ahk thinks.
Any advice on that maybe?

As soon as I have everything up and running, I will probably subscribe to both HS and emumovies. HyperSync really seems to be worth it!

[8BitMonk]

As for setup.  It is a nightmare.  There are no guides on either website emumovies or hyperspin-fe as to how to setup anything.  I have been trying to figure it out all day searching google and what not.  So far I have got hyperspin running with a few emulators, but the problem arises with naming schemes.  My rom sets are named differently from the hyperspin standard i suppose, and the artwork is named differently than that.  In order for it all to sync up the names must be identical, and I am having a lot of trouble getting them all to match up due to shoddy software with ABSOLUTELY NO GUIDES available or tutorials or FAQS, or ANYTHING.  It's like expected you just know how to do it.

I think 'nightmare' is a little dramatic. The documentation for HS isn't perfect but the info is there if you take the time to look.

There's a Docs section on the main nav of the website with explanations and videos.
http://hyperspin-fe.com/oldsite/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=55

Lots of info on the HS forum.
http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/forum.php

A separate site with all the info on Hyperlaunch 2.
https://sites.google.com/site/hyperlaunch2/home

There are plenty of tutorials on YouTube. Gigapig from the HS forum has done several vid guides:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJr4U6RCQ8o2bJj2wR1gGwA

Fursphere from this forum has some written guides.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135694.msg1402623.html#msg1402623

A quick Google search would turn up most of that. Like any small niche software you're not going to find perfect documentation for any of the frontends, you need to do some of the legwork yourself. And how is the software 'shoddy' just because it isn't perfectly documented?

[keilmillerjr]

I think he is trying to say that hyper spin is overly complicated. It took me a long time to set it up. Since then, I've moved on and won't be going back to hyper spin.

[8BitMonk]

If you just want a FE that's the easiest to setup then HS probably isn't for you. I personally love the wheel concept, themes and the new Hyperlaunch features. They far outweigh any setup headaches for me.

The point I was trying to make is that you're going to need to do some legwork regardless of the front end you choose. To say that there is no information about HS, that it's a 'nightmare' to setup or 'shoddy' software is wrong. There are some legitimate criticisms for sure, it's just frustrating when someone complains about how hard it is to setup and hasn't done any research. This isn't isolated to HS, I've seen complaints about all the FE's at one point or another when something wasn't immediately clear to someone.

[tspeirs]

If you just want a FE that's the easiest to setup then HS probably isn't for you. I personally love the wheel concept, themes and the new Hyperlaunch features. They far outweigh any setup headaches for me.

The point I was trying to make is that you're going to need to do some legwork regardless of the front end you choose. To say that there is no information about HS, that it's a 'nightmare' to setup or 'shoddy' software is wrong. There are some legitimate criticisms for sure, it's just frustrating when someone complains about how hard it is to setup and hasn't done any research. This isn't isolated to HS, I've seen complaints about all the FE's at one point or another when something wasn't immediately clear to someone.

HyperSpin is great and I don't mean to be too outspoken but as a relatively successful software developer myself I think its down to the developer/developers to make a product as user friendly as possible and the information should be there without having to look for it. I've seen countless front ends and other software products that just don't have that final polish and people of a certain age don't want to bother with it. Like missing an installer or setup wizard. Its great when others fill in the gaps but I personally don't think software should be that way. End of the day its just not a good thing. Even if the add-ons, extras and docs are available somewhere they should be right "there" as soon as you click setup.exe.

[8BitMonk]

If it were full fledged commercial software I was buying off the shelf I'd wholeheartedly agree. With a niche hobby like retro gaming I've come to view easily accessible support/service/documentation for any product as a luxury since the people making them aren't always doing it as a full time business. I will give props to GameEx for excelling in that area though.   

[tspeirs]

If it were full fledged commercial software I was buying off the shelf I'd wholeheartedly agree. With a niche hobby like retro gaming I've come to view easily accessible support/service/documentation for any product as a luxury since the people making them aren't always doing it as a full time business. I will give props to GameEx for excelling in that area though. 

Thanks. GameEx still needs some work to get it going too, so its not all roses, I do try though 

[tspeirs]

As I've always said though the HyperSpin project itself and concept is awesome and a masterful creation. Back on topic, is the media you get worth it if you like that sort of thing, yes. I just wish Id thought of it!

[SpatzST]

If you just want a FE that's the easiest to setup then HS probably isn't for you. I personally love the wheel concept, themes and the new Hyperlaunch features. They far outweigh any setup headaches for me.

The point I was trying to make is that you're going to need to do some legwork regardless of the front end you choose. To say that there is no information about HS, that it's a 'nightmare' to setup or 'shoddy' software is wrong. There are some legitimate criticisms for sure, it's just frustrating when someone complains about how hard it is to setup and hasn't done any research. This isn't isolated to HS, I've seen complaints about all the FE's at one point or another when something wasn't immediately clear to someone.

the shoddy software I was referring to was the third party apps, and I understand that they are made by community members and aren't perfect.  most of them werent working for me, and I couldn't find any guides on how to use them.  By not working I mean crashing, or coming up with error messages that don't really mean anything.  Hyperspin, even with documentation, is a pain in the butt to setup.  Its very unintuitive i should say.  As for videos on youtube and such for setting up hyperspin, ya theres a few at best, and the videos I watched either skipped a step I didn't know how to do, or the version of the software they had differed from what I was using so things didn't line up correctly. 

anyhow, now that I have hyperspin running nearly perfect, probably only thanks to shelling out the cash for hypersync, it a great front-end for sure, I never doubted that, just the setup is complex and getting any help on the emumovies forum seemed impossible due to the forums inactivity.

[bulbousbeard]

I think we can both now agree that most of them are 30fps.

If you look closely at videos with a lot of scrolling in them or flickering effects, you'll see what I'm talking about regarding the other issue.

To really do the videos right, you have to record them differently depending on the game. For example, if you're making a video of Rampage, the game ran at 30hz originally anyway, so there's no point in a 60fps video. For Samurai Shodown 2, you want to do it with syncrefresh so you can get the regular flickering and smooth scrolling.

[tspeirs]

I was wrong to say 99%, but I think we can both now agree that most of them are 30fps.

If you look closely at videos with a lot of scrolling in them or flickering effects, you'll see what I'm talking about regarding the other issue.

To really do the videos right, you have to record them differently depending on the game. For example, if you're making a video of Rampage, the game ran at 30hz originally anyway, so there's no point in a 60fps video. For Samurai Shodown 2, you want to do it with syncrefresh so you can get the regular flickering and smooth scrolling.

I do agree with you somewhat believe it or not. I don't agree EmuMovies is a waste of money though. I think for most people it just is not noticeable as it is for you. Its like Audiophiles and vynyl over CD or FLAC over MP3. Almost everyone does not notice it. Also I have been known to run MAMEPlus with its upscaling features and tweak with refresh rates so again I do have some agreement with you but this is a topic about emumovies being worth the money and it is if you are serious about the hobby. It is the only option. However as NullPointer said, upscaling and resyncing is always a compromise. We are not missing anything. A good example of why is in regards to syncing is Mortal Kombat or SMASH TV. Have a go at playing that at 60fps.

Still all this should be in a new topic.

[bulbousbeard]

I was wrong to say 99%, but I think we can both now agree that most of them are 30fps.

If you look closely at videos with a lot of scrolling in them or flickering effects, you'll see what I'm talking about regarding the other issue.

To really do the videos right, you have to record them differently depending on the game. For example, if you're making a video of Rampage, the game ran at 30hz originally anyway, so there's no point in a 60fps video. For Samurai Shodown 2, you want to do it with syncrefresh so you can get the regular flickering and smooth scrolling.

I do agree with you somewhat believe it or not. I don't agree EmuMovies is a waste of money though. I think for most people it just is not noticeable as it is for you. Its like Audiophiles and vynyl over CD or FLAC over MP3. Almost everyone does not notice it. Also I have been known to run MAMEPlus with its upscaling features and tweak with refresh rates so again I do have some agreement with you but this is a topic about emumovies being worth the money and it is if you are serious about the hobby. It is the only option. However as NullPointer said, upscaling and resyncing is always a compromise. We are not missing anything. A good example of why is in regards to syncing is Mortal Kombat or SMASH TV. Have a go at playing that at 60fps.

Still all this should be in a new topic.

Well, that's why I'd recommend different techniques for different games. Mortal Kombat and Smash TV, luckily, don't have any flickering effects in them, so for those, I'd just record them without forcing them to 60hz. For any game 59hz-61hz game with flickering, though, I'd use syncrefresh.

[yotsuya]

The SF2 setup you linked is hideous, by the way. It's 4:3 stretched to widescreen. The aspect ratio is completely trucked. It'd look even worse up close. 1080p isn't enough resolution to be that close to a screen that size.

That's the whole point, bro. No one who cares about playing the actual games really cares about the quality of preview-videos.

[headkaze]

Here's how it should be done (you have to download it; it'll be at 30fps in the browser):

If you have approximately 3000 games in the latest MAME set and each video is 226 MB like the one you posted. That would require ~662 GB of space. Do you really think that's practical? Do you have the spare bandwidth to provide the community videos at that quality?

So unless you're going to apply some sort of compression codec I don't see it being very practical. Either way the video of the game you posted (Samurai Shodown II) has a native resolution of 320 x 224. So why did you record the video at 1024 x 768? I don't see the point, just record it at native resolution and if you're afraid of the "blurring" caused by linear filtering when you scale it in your front end, then just use point filtering (nearest neighbor).

[tspeirs]

Well, that's why I'd recommend different techniques for different games. Mortal Kombat and Smash TV, luckily, don't have any flickering effects in them, so for those, I'd just record them without forcing them to 60hz. For any game 59hz-61hz game with flickering, though, I'd use syncrefresh.

And, I really don't disagree that it is a good and valid idea. Although you may get some resistance from the die hards who would rather the frame rate match the game. To some the difference in Neo-Geo at 60hz may be too much (e.g the sample you posted). I know a lot of folks don't like to play Neo-Geo at 60hz.

However, suggest it at emumovies.com rather then just diss everybody. You might be surprised at how in agreement they are with you.

[bulbousbeard]

Well, that's why I'd recommend different techniques for different games. Mortal Kombat and Smash TV, luckily, don't have any flickering effects in them, so for those, I'd just record them without forcing them to 60hz. For any game 59hz-61hz game with flickering, though, I'd use syncrefresh.

And, I really don't disagree that it is a good and valid idea. Although you may get some resistance from the die hards who would rather the frame rate match the game.

However, suggest it at emumovies.com rather then just diss everybody. You might be surprised at how in agreement they are with you.

Like we already talked about, there's no perfect solution here. A frontend can't dynamically change refresh rates every time you highlight a different game. Every frontend is probably going to run at 60hz, so something has to give.

[tspeirs]

Running more than 3000+ games in a cabinet is impractical. There simply aren't that many good games--especially games that work well in the context of a cabinet. My project is making videos for the GOOD video games. There are less than 200 games worth playing in a cabinet. The rest are either complete crap or don't work well in a cabinet context. For example, take a game like Zelda 3. Good game, but it doesn't really work in a cabinet. It's a couch game. It wouldn't be comfortable or enjoyable to play through a long game like that in a cabinet.

When you filter out the crap and the games that are simply inappropriate for a cabinet, there really isn't a whole lot left. My cabinet has like 150 games in it, and I don't even play most of those.

People need to stop obsessively downloading every game that's ever been made when the overwhelming majority of them are turds. It should be about quality not quantity. Do the few good games there are really well.

Yeah but that is just how it is with people and I don't see it changing. The HyperSpin project is the best example of this there is and why it is what it is.

[cools]

Even for 150 games I wouldnt want to be drawing the wheel/logo art and creating a movie myself.

What's there isn't perfect nor complete (MAME matters more to me than the others as naming is different to MESS), but works well enough for making a frontend that's rich graphically, doesn't use a tedious list (I hate text lists), and has per game identity without being ugly (Hyperspin).

Worth my money to save me the time.