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Mini Project: Under-dash Optical wheel.

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Howard_Casto:
I appreciate the reply, but I've made spinners by hand as well.  A spinner won't cut it for this application.  Wheels are heavy... they need heavy-duty bearings. 

The best thing to make a spinner out of is an old vcr... pull the head, put a knob on one end and an encoder on the other... done!  ;)

lolomc2:
Howard... So my explanation was bad   :laugh2:

The 10 mm screw and the "kind of cylinder" are all but fragile. Those are extremely robust, even for a wheel.
The only thing is that there is no stop (infinite rotation I mean)
The rest of the system is weak but there is no effort on it, so it is not a big deal.
 I'll try to post pictures this we if my kids give me enough time for it   :dizzy:

Xiaou2:
Not bad Howard.

 A few things...

 Certain games like Superprint.. used a non-geared system like you have built,  because you would spin the wheel hard... letting it rotate several times before stopping it.    Its low-resolution approach,  is actually rare for a 360 degree racing game.. as almost all of the rest of them, use a Two-Gear setup for higher resolution... thus much Finer control.

 If you try to play Pole Position, Segas Turbo, TX-1, and pretty much any other 360 degree wheel game...  it will be lacking in good control ability.    While you may crank up mames settings to make the car react differently...  all that will do is to either make the car more Jumpy (skipping some degrees so that it can turn quicker with less wheel turn)... or using the opposite method.. to turn down the sensitivity.. means you would need to turn the wheel like 6 times as many rotations to get the same resolution.

 You can get a cheap set of Large tooth gears from stevenshobby.com

STEVENS MOTORS    SVM-MR7    Assorted Large Plastic Motor Gears (16pcs)    $15.95   (Doesnt look like the metal shafts are included here)
STEVENS MOTORS    SVM-MR8    Assorted Large Plastic Motor Gears & Metal Shafts (27pcs)    $24.95

 Id have to measure the original gears and count the teeth..   but regardless..   Ive found these to be far more effective in control builds.

 
 These gears do not have a large shaft collar,  so I tend to cut/drill the centers out, and make my own.. usually with wood.   I secure them to the larger gears with small thin screws that go through the gears face.. and into the wood collar.  Usually two screws is fine.  Adding a small bit of glue in the pre-drilled holes as well as the faces of the gear and collar.. is also advisable.

 Once you have the collar attached, you can then thread a set screw or two through that.   And or drill all the way through it, and use a bolt.

 Gears done really eat that much space up..  and they give you far more resolution.. to play these games the way they were meant to be played.

 For games that used Lower resolution.. you can crank mames settings down so that it basically ignores half of that data, and it will play fine.

 Just like you can downscale a larger picture fairly fine...  but trying to upscale a very low res image to a larger high res display... and it will look awful.    The scaler tries to put in missing data...   but your encoder wont / cant...  and even if it could... it wouldnt be accurate, nor the same.   Either you have the resolution to work with.. or you dont.


 There is Another you could try...

 Back when I was doing this stuff... they didnt have good optical mice.. and or they were really expensive.   If you get a good gaming mouse with a laser tracker..  that works on nearly any kind of surface...  you probably could position it over a shaft, and get a high resolution read.

 Many of the new mice also have the software option to reduce the DPI.. so that you can lower the resolution as well.   In some software, especially with Logitech,  you can assign the raise/lower  DPI to different buttons.


 As as for centering a drill hole..

 1)  Measure and mark the area with at least two intersecting lines.
 2)  Use a Center Punch - preferably a spring loaded one..  to create an accurate dimple.
 3)  Possibly pre-drill the dimple a little deeper,  with a small diameter bit.  Not too deep.. and be Careful, as thin bits can flex easily.
 4)  Possibly pre-drill that holes starting point, larger and larger in diameter,  using various diameter bit sizes.

 Make sure the work is clamped well, and the table on the drill press is squared to the drill bit at a perfect 90 degrees.   Use a typical carperters L-Square.. placed on the table..  and slide it next to the bit.  Make sure its not flexing the bit, if the bit is thin.  If there is any space between the bit and the edge of the square... it means the table is out of whack.. or the bit is bent or not centered in the chuck well.

 Improperly squared, even a little, can ruin anything that requires any depth and precision.  Ive sadly learned this the hard way.

 Many drill pressed do have adjustments that can adjust the table.  These get loose over time.. and need to be readjusted.   I have a radial drill press.. and there are actually a lot of things that can effect the end result.. and it took me quite some digging to find all of the places that could be adjusted and or tightened up.


 Hot glue,  and or almost any glue solution is never a lasting solution.   Epoxy putty.. is about as permanent as it gets..   but, then you cant remove.. if you ever need to do so.


 Edit:

 One more thing...    Most arcade wheels are designed so that children can hang from them.. and adults can lean and slam them in anger.
You have to realize.. that even a fairly fat shaft can be bent at a pivot point.. as there is a lot of leverage forces at play.   The longer the shaft sticks out away from the control panel / bearing block..  the more the leverage is amplified.. and so the easier it is for someone to accidentally bend the shaft.

 As such, most arcade wheels have a thick collar attached around the external part of the shaft, and are placed very close to the mount block.
Many of them didnt even use ball bearings.  Just heavy duty bearing inserts.  Ball bearings often get dirty, corroded / rusty, and create wear due to the race getting ate up over the years.   The heavy duty bearing grease can also cause issues with good free-spin qualities.

 Obviously, bearing wear isnt really much of an issue with home use.   Still, the assembly should be able to be taken apart... if need be.
Also, if that shaft has any play in it.. its threads will act like a hacksaw and start cutting into stuff... making even more play.. and eventual demise.   Ive found its better to use a non threaded shaft, and either use custom make grooves with E-clips.. set screws, etc.

 The only thing you might want tapped is the end for the wheel.  But even that could be a problem.. due to the spinning could cause it to get loose.   As such.. many wheels are fitted with a two part plate assembly.  The front part bolts through the wheel and into the rear part.. and the rear part is then set-screwed on the shaft.   Most of these have 3 bolt holes.  Some have 5.

 Finally, depending on the application... a hardened steel shaft may be required.  As much as some shafting feels strong.. its still pretty weak compared to the forces of someone trying to bend it, especially when using a leverage point.   Hardened steel however, is tempered to a much greater strength.. and is nearly impossible to bend.  Its also much more difficult to cut though.   Use of a fiberglass cut off wheel should do the trick.. but even then, will take some time.

 A local steel place will probably sell and cut to spec for you.

 They also sell very hard and thick walled pipe at Home Depot, which is black in color.   This is another good alternative to solid shafts.. as you then can route wires through for buttons and lighting..  in the typical wheel / controller applications.

 Guess I should also warn.. that the thick walled pipe, can be very difficult to drill holes in as well.  A drill-doctor is a good device to have in such a case.. because you can wear down a bit in seconds..  especially when used improperly.

 Drill with tap oil, slower speed, low pressure.  It can take a very long time to drill these holes.  Have to have patience.  Good idea to have a fan blowing over the bit and piece to help keep it cool.  And or take many pauses... and quench the bit into some cool / ice water.

  Bits too hot, will expand too much, and can cause them to wear even faster.   Too much pressure, can cause the sharp edges to dull in mere seconds.  As the bit needs far more time and effort to gradually scrape the material away.   When nothing is working..  the bit is probably shot.. and no matter how much pressure you place on it.. it wont down any further.


 Its actually far easier to drill thick walled / hardened steel   using smaller diameter bits first .. because they dont have as much material to try to cut through.   After drilling with a small bit.. you can then use slightly thicker bits.. re-drilling that hole larger and larger.   The process is often far faster and easier..  and less likely to eat as many bits up.  Again, keep things cool.. and well oiled.

Xiaou2:
Almost forgot...

 Optical wheels / sensors are extremely sensitive to alignment issues.

 This means, that if your off a mere mm..  you will notice it in-game.   Part of your characters motions will probably slow down or stop at one point on the wheel as a result of the alignment causing a read confusion.. and or timing issue.   

 Remember, that timing and spacing are critical to how the sensors know whats happening.

 As such, you need to make sure not only that everything has precision alignment..  but also, that there is no slop, bend, or play.. in the device.  As if the shaft bends or moves a little.. the encoder will get thrown off.

 One spinner I made was off by quite a bit.  When I spun in windows at a specific rate.. you could see the mouse pointer change speeds going faster and the slower.. at various points along the line of travel.

 The may be another reason why gearing was used in wheels.    Larger tooth gears can have a little more play in them without too much trouble.  Once the power has gotten transferred to the 2nd gear.. its no longer bound to any issues of the shaft.   So as long as the frame isnt flexing, and mount isnt a problem.. there will be less possible alignment issues on the 2nd gear setup.

 Also, because the 2nd gear is smaller.. it matches up with the smaller sized encoder wheel discs... so less need for custom made wheels and or adapters, that may be off-center.

Howard_Casto:
I appreciate the advice guys, but it looks like both of you have different goals than me. 

X2 wants to make the perfect optical wheel while lolomc2 wants to make a wheel from random things around the house, which works for him, but isn't something others can easily replicate. 

I'm just trying to make a sturdy wheel that will fit under an analog wheel, with 100% off the shelf parts that anyone with a few tools and a decent skill set can make cheaply. 

I'm going to re-drill the end to permanently attach the encoder wheel, I've already said as much.  I just wanted to test the thing before I invested more time into it. 

I will say this though, even with a slightly sloppy alignment there weren't any issues with the games.  It surprised me as well because as I mentioned I've made spinners before and on games with spinners any variation in the spin has made a big difference.  In these games, not so much.  I can only conclude that racing games just aren't as sensitive. 

This actually makes sense to me because if you look at a lot of the old 4 player wheel cabinets, you can see the wheels wobble as you spin them.  The hardware wasn't exactly precision engineered. 

I'll try more games once I'm done, but thus far most seem to work well.  There are a few oddball ones.  Roadblaster pitches a fit anytime you accelerate from a stop, but I think that has to do more with it's unique hardware than anything else. 

I would like to say that Pole Position controlled well, but I really can't tell.  I've always sucked at that game and it's been a good 20 years since I've played it on an actual cabinet.  I mean I got through qualifying and the first stage, which is better than I usually do.  Are the spins 1 to 1 with how they were in the arcade?  I don't have a clue, but I think for a universal solution that might be asking too much.  Encoder wheels can be swapped of course as you mention, that isn't a big deal, but at least from initial testing, mame's sensitivity settings seems to match up pretty well with the one that I'm using with a few oddball games being the exception.

It works great on offroad, badlands, and games like that, feels exactly as I remember and I have actually played offroad on a cab recently. 

Design-wise about the only thing I would change is to just use a solid shaft instead of a threaded one.  I had intended to use the nuts to hold things in place but that didn't pan out so it's pointless to have to deal with threads.  They make it hard to cut the shaft squarely as they throw you off.  I got this particular shaft and the bearings in the trailer section of Tractor Supply... they are parts normally used to make the axel assembly to a home made trailer, so while not the strongest thing in the world, they should be sturdy enough. 

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