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Author Topic: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?  (Read 14370 times)

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AGarv

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Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« on: September 20, 2013, 04:57:07 pm »
I haven't seen much mention of rotating control panels recently.  It has always struck me as the best solution (once construction is finished) to have multiple control setups on the same cab, both for ergonomics and aesthetics.

Ten years ago when 1UP introduced the first rotating control panel cab I am sure it was an absolute nightmare to accurately cut the panels and internal rotation mechanisms.  Now that CNCs are readily available, I am surprised we don't see more rotating panels.  Other than the need for precision, is there some huge drawback to them that I don't know about?  ??? (If anyone has a 3D model for a rotating panel cab floating around, please pass it my way!)

Unstupid

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2013, 05:14:50 pm »
Other than the need for precision, is there some huge drawback to them that I don't know about?
It is too difficult to make them not look like ass!  ;)

Fursphere

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2013, 05:17:36 pm »
Other than the need for precision, is there some huge drawback to them that I don't know about?
It is too difficult to make them not look like ass!  ;)

Agreed! 

Even a "quick swap" control panel has the issue of finding a place to store the extra panel(s).

SavannahLion

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2013, 06:02:47 pm »
Cabs are getting smaller and thinner thanks to the monitors. Bartop and Woody are good examples.

DaveMMR

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2013, 10:35:03 pm »
Other than the need for precision, is there some huge drawback to them that I don't know about?
It is too difficult to make them not look like ass!  ;)

Yup, what he said. Even the best ones (1Up's PacMamea) have an odd look about them. At best, and with the aforementioned example, there's too much "empty, wasted space" between the controls and the monitor which is required for rotating clearance.

And what Savannah said as well. It's almost easier and, possibly cheaper, to just build a second cabinet now that room isn't so much an issue.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 07:53:21 am by DaveMMR »

Xiaou2

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2013, 03:29:53 am »

 CNC has nothing to do with rotating control panels.   

 Most of the complexity is in creating a good secure locking system, as well as the wiring and planning.   Theres also issues with controllers... such as if a trackball on a sideward panel is vibrated & moves.. it could interfere with your other controller.  Andys interfaces auto activated controllers if they moved..  not sure if thats still the case or not.

 Looks are 2ndary to many people who value the games accuracy, and have limited resources in space and money.

 I completely disagree that building a 2nd cab is cheaper!   The wood for a project is one of the cheapest components!  Especially if you get it from side-of-the-road broken shelving / dressers / cabinetry.

 To build two bartops, you are still doubling the costs:   Two sets of buttons, two encoders (or more depending on setups), multiple sticks, 4 speakers, 2 amps, 2 computers, 2 displays, 2 marquees,  door locks, hinges, cooling fans, artwork, T-molding,  and more.

 How exactly is that saving money?!   :lol

 And then you still need 2x the space.  Even if a bartop is small... it requires that 1 or 2 people can play on it.   The only thing you gain with a full size standup LCD slim cabinet is a little less depth.  And you pay for that, in poor stability (cabinet rocks & or tips over too easily) and poor vertical viewing angles due to a set height.

 And even after all that.. you get a display that looks like crap playing classic games.

 So, if your not rolling in dough.. and have the skills to pull off the cabinetry, you can pull off a cab that plays many different kinds of games accurately, without storage space, swap time, and also, save a boat load of money.

 Thing is.. most people dont have the mechanical confidence & experience.  They would rather just follow a pre-existing blueprint.

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2013, 05:46:53 am »
Lack of technical skill and originality.
If I had only one wish, it would be for three more wishes.

DaveMMR

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2013, 07:59:06 am »
I completely disagree that building a 2nd cab is cheaper!   The wood for a project is one of the cheapest components!  Especially if you get it from side-of-the-road broken shelving / dressers / cabinetry.

 To build two bartops, you are still doubling the costs:   Two sets of buttons, two encoders (or more depending on setups), multiple sticks, 4 speakers, 2 amps, 2 computers, 2 displays, 2 marquees,  door locks, hinges, cooling fans, artwork, T-molding,  and more.

 How exactly is that saving money?!   :lol

Heh I think my logic last night was "building two cabinets would probably be cheaper due to all the wasted wood, materials, mechanisms, etc. needed due to the numerous mistakes I'd make trying to get a rotating control panel working properly." Don't know why I would say that otherwise - basic math.

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2013, 05:06:30 pm »

 CNC has nothing to do with rotating control panels.   

 Most of the complexity is in creating a good secure locking system, as well as the wiring and planning.   
I have been taking a break from building mine, I needed to recharge my batteries but the locking of the panels is an issue, I don't know if it will stand up to some hard playing. Check out my "automated cabinet" build, the link is in my signature.
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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2013, 08:45:47 pm »
I was just going to post about DarthPauls automated cabinet. Work of art.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 09:19:27 pm by DaOld Man »

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2013, 09:16:09 pm »
Lack of technical skill and originality.

Then there's tainted meth.

Personally I think there's a very fine you're describing there. Someone without the technical know how won't attempt something like that and someone who does have the know how isn't going to want to make something that looks like ass.

It's that point in between when the person doesn't know any better. Of course, that statement isn't strictly limited to just rotary cabs.

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2013, 01:00:00 pm »
Quote
Personally I think...

 Simply false.

 Everyone has their own ideas, feelings, and reasons to make whatever they make.

 Are you saying that Jeri Ellsworth's C64 bass guitar is fablously beautiful?

 Its retro cool, and technically interesting ... but its no work of art that people would sell their souls to get hold of.

 The only consideration, may be people whom have technical ability and the tools to pull it off... may also have the
money and space available for multiple machines.  Hence, no reason to build such a design.

 Quite simply, a rotating control panel is built for space & cost savings... while allowing the user many more options for arcade perfect control options, with the least amount of playability compromises.

 I had many people email me about my prototype when I released the pics... inspired and asking questions, as well as giving me props and praise.  A few asked why I wasnt patenting it and trying to sell it... which was admittedly way over the top, and highly unrealistic.. heh.

 Again, its not for everyone.. but, I can tell you that a LOT more people care about game playability, over mere looks.
Even if thats Your opinion.   In fact, most true arcade machines are gaudy and ugly.  But that was never an issue to the players.


 As for your Meth goatting, you very well know that nobody on Meth is going to be building much of anything, let alone a rotating control panel.  Please, leave the button pushing to Cheffo.  Hes much better at it.


 What genuinely shocking.. is that the person behind publicly attacking so many creatively inspired peoples works... isnt someone in poverty and struggle.  This man has a basement of pinball machines, and is technically skilled.   

 Its one thing for jealously and unenlightened low class level behavior to come from a person of a rough background..   but from someone like this?  Its embarrassingly shameful.   Really flushes the faith in humanity right down the drain.

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2013, 12:50:36 pm »
CNC tooling was never the limiting factor in the scarceness of rotating or modular control panels.
Multipurpose machines never seem to work like they as well as intended.
 
Some good examples include the Shopsmith line of work shop tools.
It’s a tablesaw, lathe, drill press, sanding disk and more.

But... the added complexity and time to reconfigure the device negates any suggested cost and space savings.

I just came across a print ad in yesterday’s Sunday paper for a new Craftsmen hand held cordless tool.
It looks like a cordless drill but can also be a sawzall, flashlight and rotary cutter.
Makes for a great late night commercial.

Same reason as the car/boat combo which always seems to reemerge every generation.

Barring the Swiss army knife, I don’t know of many ‘all in one device’ that work well as marketed.
 
   

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2013, 05:07:34 pm »
Other than the need for precision, is there some huge drawback to them that I don't know about?
It is too difficult to make them not look like ass!  ;)

Yup, what he said. Even the best ones (1Up's PacMamea) have an odd look about them. At best, and with the aforementioned example, there's too much "empty, wasted space" between the controls and the monitor which is required for rotating clearance.

And what Savannah said as well. It's almost easier and, possibly cheaper, to just build a second cabinet now that room isn't so much an issue.


Hrm, yeah I have to agree that with the 1UP/Frosty design the monitor sits unnaturally high compared to traditional cabs:



1UP's Pacmamea and Frostillicus' machine are old-school CRT cabs.  The coin door had to pull forward to allow for rotation, and the heavy CRT monitor had to stay locked into place.  In the era of affordable 27"+ LCDs, the monitor itself could be designed to swing up during rotation, then drop back into place after rotation, with no need for the "dead space" (it would be behind the monitor).

Are there any 3D models floating around that have 1Up's rotation mechanism that I could drop into sketchup?

DaveMMR

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2013, 06:09:22 pm »
1UP's Pacmamea and Frostillicus' machine are old-school CRT cabs.  The coin door had to pull forward to allow for rotation, and the heavy CRT monitor had to stay locked into place.  In the era of affordable 27"+ LCDs, the monitor itself could be designed to swing up during rotation, then drop back into place after rotation, with no need for the "dead space" (it would be behind the monitor).

Are there any 3D models floating around that have 1Up's rotation mechanism that I could drop into sketchup?

I was actually thinking about that same idea at one point and then I just kind of came up with something while I was killing time at work here. Don't know how doable this is as this is in no way "to scale" or anything but I was thinking about a four-sided rotating panel with an overhang on each one to flush with coin door front panel and extra space towards the back for the monitor panel to rest on.

Again, not tested or measured or anything - but if it looks useful to your project, feel free to take it and run with it.

(EDIT: You could probably move that monitor back some and would probably need to make the overhangs longer for the sticks (or whatever) to clear the front. Again, quick sketch - literally 30 seconds including the scan.)

(EDIT 2: Wonder how you'd get the monitor to lift up easily without adding ugly handles... See therein lies the issue with the rotating panels, so many challenges to overcome....)

(EDIT 3: Figured out the answer to my own question: Open front, push down, let the panel gently push forward the monitor and lift the rest of the way. But make sure you connect everything with one of those 'spinning connectors' - like they have for phone cords. And ratchet the rotation so it only turns forward.... Ugh, AGarv - turn my brain off!!!  ;) )
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 06:55:28 pm by DaveMMR »

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2013, 07:27:54 pm »
(EDIT 2: Wonder how you'd get the monitor to lift up easily without adding ugly handles... See therein lies the issue with the rotating panels, so many challenges to overcome....)

Use a linear actuator like G-rock26 did for Project Morph.



Add a second one for the front panel and you are good to go.   :cheers:


Scott

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2013, 10:34:08 pm »
(EDIT 2: Wonder how you'd get the monitor to lift up easily without adding ugly handles... See therein lies the issue with the rotating panels, so many challenges to overcome....)

Use a linear actuator like G-rock26 did for Project Morph.

Add a second one for the front panel and you are good to go.   :cheers:

Scott

I love that project, though the linear actuator pushes it into that "two dedicated cabinets cheaper than one" theory I tried selling earlier. It would up the 'cool factor' significantly - yet not entirely a strict requirement (see Edit 3).

The more I think about it, the more I think if such a thing were to work, that the Slim Defender style cabinet design (see my currently abandoned project or, better yet, successfully completed ones) may be best suited for it. The real deal naturally had a panel with a slight overhang, the front part with the coin area is extra roomy to, hopefully, accommodate the panels' controls not currently in use and I feel like you can drop down that 'front-belly' a bit easier (and hide a release-latch or key underneath the bottom of it.) I may need to break out my Sketch-Up files and see what actually is possible while keeping the lines as close to original (minus the whole 'slim-line' modification, obviously) as possible.

The goal here is to not lose too much real estate having to account for the backs of adjacent panels and other areas deemed 'unusable'. If a panel were 10" deep, you'd have maybe 5-6 inches of usable space (rough worst-case scenario guess.) That's a fairly big obstacle. The other one is being able to easily remove the panels from the rotating mechanism for maintenance while making whatever holds it down strong enough to support a board full of hardware hanging upside down*.

(*Which may be why a TRIANGLE with three panels - along with better space management - may actually be better now that I think about it.)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 10:37:19 pm by DaveMMR »

Xiaou2

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2013, 11:04:52 pm »
A mechanical auto-lift would be pretty easy.

  Basically, you can attach a roller wheel set to the bottom of the lcd mount panel.  Then attach some side panels to the rotating control panels, which are shaped in such a way, that as the panel is rotated.. it will cause the roller to rise and lower.  Basically, like a rollercoaster track.

 You would want to put a wood or metal slide-braces on both the front and rear sides of the lcd panel.. forming a channel.   The external sides braces would have screws, so can be removable.. which is typical in arcade bezel holders.  If sliding was a little rough, you could also put a few bearing rollers on the rear side of the monitor panel as well.

 Not sure a 4 sided panel will work well though, because the angle may be steep in order to attain the space needed to clear the front on the cabinet.   One of the reasons for a rotating cp, is for things like tall trigger stick, or even steering wheels..  both of which are externally tall, and also, internally deep.


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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2013, 11:39:34 pm »
Not sure a 4 sided panel will work well though, because the angle may be steep in order to attain the space needed to clear the front on the cabinet.   One of the reasons for a rotating cp, is for things like tall trigger stick, or even steering wheels..  both of which are externally tall, and also, internally deep.

Yes, have to agree. The design in my head would likely accommodate nothing taller than a standard joystick and even that may be tight. Kick it down to a triangle and see where that takes you.

You have much more wiggle room if you can forgo the fancier controllers (or make them a modular add-on like PacMamea has) and stick to joysticks, spinners and trackballs. Me? I'd do the rotation just to have a couple of seperate layouts (1 player, 2 player fighter, trackball/spinner, Defender.) Seems a waste, I know.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 11:46:50 pm by DaveMMR »

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2013, 12:27:30 am »
I love that project, though the linear actuator pushes it into that "two dedicated cabinets cheaper than one" theory I tried selling earlier. It would up the 'cool factor' significantly - yet not entirely a strict requirement (see Edit 3).

I mentioned linear actuators for the no handles and coolness factors.  8)

If expense is a concern, go with a lever arm on the monitor board and a pulley system tied to the front panel.   ;D


Scott

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2013, 10:53:24 am »
X , I think your rant is humorous but you're off on a tangent there.  :dunno

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2013, 11:31:49 am »
Rotating control panels are for the most part just a dumb idea. Too much work and cost for too little reward. Id rather see a frankenpanel than a bingo ball dispenser. Swappable panels makes more sense. (you can just store the extra panels in the bottom of the cab)
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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2013, 12:42:31 pm »
Have an arcade cabinet that works well with most games, not a cabinet that works with every game. A rotating monitor would be cool, but my 27" lcd is large enough that vertical games would still be playable in the horizontal position.

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2013, 01:12:48 pm »
i keep thinking of pimp my ride when i hear of rotating control panels and monitors.
xzibit would say...
yo dog- i heard you like centipede, tempest, star wars, defender, q-bert, streetfigher, pole position AND disks of tron

well todays is yo lucky day...we pimped your CAB!

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2013, 01:31:37 pm »
here is what the staff of pimp my cab came up with.
8 distinct control panels!
Roulette design because Vegas baby!
Motorized operation because complexity and cost
Less space than 8 dedicated cabinets!

Feel free build- I am gifting idea to the public!
CNC make your dreams a reality.

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2013, 01:39:57 pm »
Have an arcade cabinet that works well with most games, not a cabinet that works with every game. A rotating monitor would be cool, but my 27" lcd is large enough that vertical games would still be playable in the horizontal position.

Bingo. I think the longer you are in this hobby, the more you realize a "OMGZ!!!!1!! I can play every game known to man" cab is what you start out wanting and maybe even build, but you soon realize that it's not going to work out that way in a fun and effective manner.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2013, 04:57:15 pm »
1UP's Pacmamea and Frostillicus' machine are old-school CRT cabs.  The coin door had to pull forward to allow for rotation, and the heavy CRT monitor had to stay locked into place.  In the era of affordable 27"+ LCDs, the monitor itself could be designed to swing up during rotation, then drop back into place after rotation, with no need for the "dead space" (it would be behind the monitor).

Are there any 3D models floating around that have 1Up's rotation mechanism that I could drop into sketchup?

I was actually thinking about that same idea at one point and then I just kind of came up with something while I was killing time at work here. Don't know how doable this is as this is in no way "to scale" or anything but I was thinking about a four-sided rotating panel with an overhang on each one to flush with coin door front panel and extra space towards the back for the monitor panel to rest on.

Again, not tested or measured or anything - but if it looks useful to your project, feel free to take it and run with it.

(EDIT: You could probably move that monitor back some and would probably need to make the overhangs longer for the sticks (or whatever) to clear the front. Again, quick sketch - literally 30 seconds including the scan.)

(EDIT 2: Wonder how you'd get the monitor to lift up easily without adding ugly handles... See therein lies the issue with the rotating panels, so many challenges to overcome....)

(EDIT 3: Figured out the answer to my own question: Open front, push down, let the panel gently push forward the monitor and lift the rest of the way. But make sure you connect everything with one of those 'spinning connectors' - like they have for phone cords. And ratchet the rotation so it only turns forward.... Ugh, AGarv - turn my brain off!!!  ;) )

Very cool ideas (and the pulley system, PL1)! I hadn't thought of having the rotating box itself be the mechanism that releases the monitor.  The monitor pivot point could easily be lowered (from the top) to allow for easier clearance of taller controls (e.g. a yoke or Tron-stick). 

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2013, 10:59:57 pm »
Heh - the more I play with sketch-up the more I see the limitations of making a rotation mechanism that keeps the machine not looking like it's a Transformer. And when you have to start figuring in pistons and pulleys and wheels - and most importantly the lack of under-panel space - it makes swappable panels seem like an overall better solution (even if it's less elegant.) Plus I looked at every rot example on the web and there's always that one thing about it I wasn't too crazy about - looks-wise.

Not to discourage you - if you really want to go for it you can always try to find more elegant solutions that we've seen. But I've now seen why you don't see many rotating panel projects: there's just too many 'simpler' and 'better' solutions out there to justify the extra work.

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2013, 01:19:27 am »
The monitor pivot point could easily be lowered (from the top) to allow for easier clearance of taller controls (e.g. a yoke or Tron-stick).

If you choose to do this, make sure that the monitor board is bottom heavy enough to close all the way.


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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2013, 07:52:21 am »

 Swappable CPs are not easy to just put anywhere.   If you have a single tron CP, its barely going to fit in the bottom of a cab thats already filled with electronics.  Especially if its a slim variant.   And thats IF you make your CPs with less width than the cabinet itself.   Most arcade CPs  are the same size or larger than the cabs bottom... width wise.   And vertically storing them still wont get you more than 2 CPs... if you can fit them easily.

 And... its still a pain and hassle, to swap them every time you want to play a different game.

 I just know someones gona say Modular.   ugg.    I was probably the first person to draw up a modular CP, and for a while, thought it was the greatest idea ever...  but then I realized the logistics of the thing.. as far as storing parts and again, swapping them over and over again.


 In the end, I may still build a CP thats similar to Unclets cab. (Horizontal Rotation)  But fully enclosed, with more CP options.

 The vertical rotation on the prototype I built worked well,  ... but, I realized it would be far nicer to have a sit-down experience rather than stand up.

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2013, 08:20:13 am »

 Swappable CPs are not easy to just put anywhere.   If you have a single tron CP, its barely going to fit in the bottom of a cab thats already filled with electronics.  Especially if its a slim variant.   And thats IF you make your CPs with less width than the cabinet itself.   Most arcade CPs  are the same size or larger than the cabs bottom... width wise.   And vertically storing them still wont get you more than 2 CPs... if you can fit them easily.

 And... its still a pain and hassle, to swap them every time you want to play a different game.

 I just know someones gona say Modular.   ugg.    I was probably the first person to draw up a modular CP, and for a while, thought it was the greatest idea ever...  but then I realized the logistics of the thing.. as far as storing parts and again, swapping them over and over again.


 In the end, I may still build a CP thats similar to Unclets cab. (Horizontal Rotation)  But fully enclosed, with more CP options.

 The vertical rotation on the prototype I built worked well,  ... but, I realized it would be far nicer to have a sit-down experience rather than stand up.
Let me refure you step by step.....

There is tons of room in the bottom of a cab. Granted Im sure theres someone out there with a decased PC and an arcade monitor that requires an isolation transformer but we need to generalize here and not assume every cabinet is worst case scenario. In my cab, the PC sits on a shelf behind the monitor.

Ahhh the tron-gument. I believe you could EASILY fit 4 CPs inside a standard cab (lean one inside each corner), and a 5th would be installed. I dont believe you would even need that many unless you made a ton of game specific CPs

Odds are after someone built all these CPs they will probably leave 1 panel on there 95% of the time because it'll be for the games they actually play.

I drew my first modular panel for my first MAME cab about 15 years ago because I wanted to be able to swap a 4way and an 8 way, and the SF layout (for Snes96), the NBA Jam layout which evolved to the NeoGeo Layout, and I dont think I was the first to do it either.
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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2013, 08:37:10 am »
Swappable CPs are not easy to just put anywhere.   

I never got this. You have the room for a full size cabinet, but when it comes to a slab of wood with some hardware on it you suddenly don't have space for it? I mean, justify doing a rotating cp however you want, but can we agree that most of us could find a nice, safe space for extra control panels if push ever came to shove?  (Plus it's not like the rotating panel isn't taking up a ridiculous amount of real estate in the cabinet that could be used for panel storage if you planned ahead for it.)

And... its still a pain and hassle, to swap them every time you want to play a different game.

Do you really need to switch controls after EVERY game? I feel like joysticks and a few buttons cover a large number of games (without breaking it down into 4/8 way) and the other controls are for that occasional driving, trackball, etc. game. YMMV.

I'm not trying to discourage it. You should just examine your actual needs before going down that complicated route. I feel that many people can get a lot of mileage out of a single panel and then, maybe, make it swappable if you have the need for rather specific control types. I just kept coming across limitation after limitation when I was sketching it out and the easier solutions were hard to ignore.

(Malenko beat me to a lot of what I said....)

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2013, 09:33:43 am »
(Malenko beat me to a lot of what I said....)

I still love ya baby :*
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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2013, 10:08:54 am »
What Malenko said.

I normally just laugh inside at the 'where are you gonna store your panels?' objections. FFS I've got an empty box 24"x24"x36" right in front of me.

On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2013, 11:16:47 am »
(Malenko beat me to a lot of what I said....)

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D'awww thanks!

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2013, 11:47:11 am »
Quote
I never got this. You have the room for a full size cabinet, but when it comes to a slab of wood with some hardware on it

 A Tron stick takes up nearly 1ft on top, and what... another 5" on bottom... which you would want to enclose, so that nothing gets damaged as you swap and store them.    Then you have things like dual T2 guns,  Starwars, Spyhunter, and Supersprint wheels.  All of which take a large amount of space in both directions... especially if you have built the proper raised mounts for them, to get the correct play angles.    I even have a few Arcade Analog sticks, which have something like 9" long under brackets.

 I doubt Id use an LCD, as I dont care for the look.  But even if you did..  you would still need to build an extended cabinet to house all the controls Ive acquired... with some sort of non standard pull out shelving drawers.   And again, this is still a pain in the rear to do.. as well as cost more in materials & parts.

Quote
Do you really need to switch controls after EVERY game? I feel like joysticks and a few buttons cover a large number of game

 Again, this is how you feel.  But I love games with unique controllers.  Supersprint, Starwars, T2, Tron, Discs of Tron, and more.  These are some of my favorites, and I play them more often than many of the more generic controller games.

Quote
Plus it's not like the rotating panel isn't taking up a ridiculous amount of real estate

 A rotating Cp at its worst, doesnt take up that much more space than a typical cab.  But, its still cheaper, and its still easier to play games, rather than spend 4 min each swap out.  (plus the possible need to exit and restart mame to deal with the controller changes)

 Vertically, I think a 5 sided panel is about as small as Id go, if I were to go that route.

 But my goals have changed, so my machine may be a beast, if I ever get around to building it.

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2013, 01:04:17 pm »
Quote
I never got this. You have the room for a full size cabinet, but when it comes to a slab of wood with some hardware on it

 A Tron stick takes up nearly 1ft on top, and what... another 5" on bottom... which you would want to enclose, so that nothing gets damaged as you swap and store them.    Then you have things like dual T2 guns,  Starwars, Spyhunter, and Supersprint wheels.  All of which take a large amount of space in both directions... especially if you have built the proper raised mounts for them, to get the correct play angles.    I even have a few Arcade Analog sticks, which have something like 9" long under brackets.

But that's what I was trying to say: if they're taking up space stored somewhere else, they're going to take up space in your rotating CP.  Look at 1UP's PacMamea - that control panel enclosure is much larger than just a single one and he still has to store those modular parts anyway. Rotating panels are not space-savers.

Quote
Again, this is how you feel.  But I love games with unique controllers.  Supersprint, Starwars, T2, Tron, Discs of Tron, and more.  These are some of my favorites, and I play them more often than many of the more generic controller games.

Well you're a tad unique and therefore your needs are different. For you, rotating control panels might be a more viable option. I feel that most builders are only going to worry about the more basic controls and I was kind of offering my findings based on the common denominator.

Quote
But, its still cheaper, and its still easier to play games, rather than spend 4 min each swap out.

Not exactly cheaper - you'd have to now get additional hardware to work the rotation mechanism plus keep in mind you have to have all the controls bought up front (instead of building as you buy with removable panels.) And that leads to the final problem:

Quote
if I ever get around to building it.

You spend so much more time planning and measuring instead of simplifying and playing the games.



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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2013, 02:49:55 pm »
Rotating panels are _definitely_ another level of complexity to design and build.

There's more room to mess stuff up.  It takes a lot of time. It is much harder to make the panels lock into place and feel "solid". Precious time that could be spent wiring LEDs to buttons and installing subwoofers will be forfeited. I get it.



That said, now that LCDs can overcome the "high monitor" issue (which admittedly looks terrible) created by CRTs, a well designed and constructed rotating cab could look great (slim cab optional) and offer great ergonomics, particularly for custom controls (e.g. I love Assault), without the PITA of swappable panels. A good design is worth exploring in 3D, IMO.

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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2013, 04:44:31 pm »
Rotating panels are _definitely_ another level of complexity to design and build.

There's more room to mess stuff up.  It takes a lot of time. It is much harder to make the panels lock into place and feel "solid". Precious time that could be spent wiring LEDs to buttons and installing subwoofers will be forfeited. I get it.

I for one appreciate your sarcasm. Wiring in LEDs and even too much audio is not the logistical nightmare of a rotating panel. Your animated gif example is 3 panels, of which 1 is a frankenpanel. Xeth-head said he's do FIVE panels.  In what world is doing the math and construction of 5 separate panels joined onto 1 bingo ball dispenser easier than making 2 or 3 swappable panels?

How long would it take to lift up a magnetically or industrial velcro'ed panel, unplug 2 or 3 DB9 connectors. Plug in 2 or 3 DB9 connectors, and sit control panel back on cabinet. This time could be reduced by having the DB9 connectors line up on the bottom of the panel.

how long would it take to tilting up the base of the monitor, opening the coin door area, rotating to the desired panel, locking the panel, closing the coin door, tilting the monitor back in place.

Now how much more time does one take over the other? even if it took about the same time (which it probably would) how much easier is the design and implementation of one over the other?

I think the major issue here is how many panels would you actually need. 5 seems far fetched, the standard 2 player 8 way and 7 buttons takes care of a TON of games. Is the plan to not use just the neogeo layout for standard jamma games? Realistically, excluding various wheel panels (your driving cab should be dedicated IMO) 3 should cover pretty much everything which to mean would eliminate the need for a rotating panel.
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Re: Rotating control panels in the CNC age... why so rare still?
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2013, 07:20:53 pm »
I had given the idea of a contained system with multiple control panels a thought before and this is what I came up with.

At the push of a button or more preferably switching to the proper gamelist would make control panel one sink to the bottom of the cabinet via a linear actuator while control panel two would come in from the back and lock into place via a separate linear actuator.

As reference to by the quick paint "rendering" (lol)