Vectrex Mini-Cocktail

[Minwah]

Concept (not entirely accurate):

[Minwah]

Progress:

[Le Chuck]

Looking forward to this, keep it coming!

[05SRT4]

How tall is this going to be?

[Minwah]

How tall is this going to be?

618mm. That seems about right for sit down play.

[Minwah]

Sorted the dimensions out on the model...it should look more like this:

[ChadTower]

Very sweet.  I'm looking forward to seeing how much visibility is impaired by the depth of the Vectrex bezel, combined with the glass, and the viewing angle.  I'm a little bit concerned that you're going to have to crane your neck forward to take in the whole monitor.

BTW, while there are only a couple original games that use the analog stick well, most of the homebrews do.   The homebrews on the Vectrex are consistently amazing and they just keep coming.  I got a couple in the mail last week.

[Minwah]

Very sweet.  I'm looking forward to seeing how much visibility is impaired by the depth of the Vectrex bezel, combined with the glass, and the viewing angle.  I'm a little bit concerned that you're going to have to crane your neck forward to take in the whole monitor.

I haven't actually played anything on it yet for obvious reasons, but...sat on a chair about 45cm tall (to seat top) it seems pretty good, there is a small part of the bottom of the screen not visible without leaning forward slightly. However I think leaning forward slightly will be fairly natural anyway when using the controls. Also you can sit very close to the machine as it's small enough to have your legs either side. I will only be able to tell for sure once I have it up and running, but I *think* it will be ok - that said it's probably not the type of machine to play on non-stop for hours on end!

BTW, while there are only a couple original games that use the analog stick well, most of the homebrews do.   The homebrews on the Vectrex are consistently amazing and they just keep coming.  I got a couple in the mail last week.

Yeah I love the homebrews. The only one that springs to mind that I like using the analog stick for is Moon Lander (thrust). Which others are you referring to? Also which ones did you recently get? Just curious.

My favourites are:

YASI/Protector
Gravitrex
Moon Lander
Thrust
Vector Pilot
Vectrexians

Incidentally I do have an analog stick I could use for this, although I haven't checked if the under panel depth of the stick, it might be too big. Also I think for the games I like the most a digital stick will feel better.

[ChadTower]

The games that came last week were Sundance (port of the Cinematronics arcade game) and Hexed!  (The exclamation point is part of the title.  I'm not shouting.    )


Check out Fury Unlimited and their selection of homebrews.  I honestly can't remember which ones use the analog and which ones don't but IIRC quite a few of them use it. 

[Minwah]

The games that came last week were Sundance (port of the Cinematronics arcade game) and Hexed!  (The exclamation point is part of the title.  I'm not shouting.    )

Cool, I hadn't seen those!

I didn't like where I'd put the cartridge slot. I was going to add side handle holes so I realised I could use one of these for the cart slot as well:

[ChadTower]

It's worth keeping up with rec.games.vectrex just for the homebrew releases.  That's where most of them still get announced first.  I keep forgetting to stay current myself and have missed out on a few releases.  They tend to sell out within a few months and then get pricey on ebay after that.

[Minwah]

It's worth keeping up with rec.games.vectrex just for the homebrew releases.  That's where most of them still get announced first.  I keep forgetting to stay current myself and have missed out on a few releases.  They tend to sell out within a few months and then get pricey on ebay after that.

Thanks, I will keep an eye on that.

Bit of progress:

[BC_Jeffro]

nice

[Minwah]

nice

Thanks!

I've got the hinges for the lid working, and decided to concentrate on finishing the base. Made good progress over the weekend and should have the base finished this week:

[ChadTower]

Nice!  Looks period authentic to me.

[Rick]

Woodgrain and black are pure sex, right there. Nice work!

[danny_galaga]

Sweeeeeeet 

[Minwah]

Sorry for the terrible picture, but this is where I am now. Waiting for some glass to be cut before I finish the top...

[Le Chuck]

Looks kinda deep, is there any issue with viewing angle and the table top cutting off the bottom of the screen if you're not right over the top?

[CoryBee]

Looks kinda deep, is there any issue with viewing angle and the table top cutting off the bottom of the screen if you're not right over the top?

I was wondering this too

[Minwah]

Looks kinda deep, is there any issue with viewing angle and the table top cutting off the bottom of the screen if you're not right over the top?

I don't think you will be able to sit in a 'normal' position and see the whole screen, you will need to lean forward a bit. I don't know how big of an issue this is until it is playable (by which point it will be basically finished). I *think* it will be ok...

The only way this could be improved is to de-case the Vectrex and have the tube right under the tabletop. This would work well but I don't want to de-case my Vectrex.

[ChadTower]

If you want to cut a new top you could always rotate the bottom of the monitor downwards and angle the monitor in the direction of the CP.  That would fix the viewing angle.

[Minwah]

If you want to cut a new top you could always rotate the bottom of the monitor downwards and angle the monitor in the direction of the CP.  That would fix the viewing angle.

I don't think that would help actually. It's not the viewing angle as such thats the problem...it's the distance between the tube and table top. Angling as you say would actually make the distance between tube (at bottom of screen) and table top even further.

Or do I misunderstand?

[Locke141]

If you want to cut a new top you could always rotate the bottom of the monitor downwards and angle the monitor in the direction of the CP.  That would fix the viewing angle.

I don't think that would help actually. It's not the viewing angle as such thats the problem...it's the distance between the tube and table top. Angling as you say would actually make the distance between tube (at bottom of screen) and table top even further.

Or do I misunderstand?

I think ChadTower means something like this?

Angling the Vertex and adding shims will give you a better viewing angle. I think.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, pretty much.  By angling it you could move it a little bit closer, I think.  You could move the top of the screen closer, anyway.  And viewing angle is definitely the problem here.  I'd rather have it further away and be able to see it without craning the neck than have to lean over the table.

And I say that sitting at a desk with a Vectrex so close if I swung my right hand wildly I'd knock the Vectrex onto the floor.   

Is it possible the pic just makes scale look too deep?  That thing looks set into the tabletop by a good foot.  The Vectrex shroud is only 2.5" deep (I just measured it).
 

[Xiaou2]

Ive always wanted to play one of these.

 Minwah,

   Why not make this into a cabaret?   Viewing angle and sitting comfort (learning), is going to be a big factor.

 Also, if it was a typical cocktail, the control panel would be under the table.  The reason they did this, besides viewing angle and comfortable arm angles and position,   is to keep the table free to put stuff on top... like a pizza parlor dining table.

 If it takes up as much space as a mini or standup.. and making a standup or mini sitdown cab improves visuals and comfort... (as well as sound acoustics, and better focus due to the cabs 'blinder-sides')  ...

 Or, you may with to rethink the tabletop with regards to being a bit more similar to other tabletop designs.

 Another thing to also consider.. is how often something that has open empty flat space, will get something 'temporarily' sat on top of it.  And thus to play it, may require removing piles of stuff that your not even sure where to put.  Sounds crazy, but Ive seen this in many collectors places.

 Dont forget, that if it is going to be a table... do everything you can to make it drink / spill proof.  Such as water-proofing certain areas with sealant. (esp mdf)   Calking edges.  Creating drainage channels.. as well as making sure nothing could drip or dribble into an electronics area.  And finally, drain holes the exit the cab, so that a spill isnt pooled up without any way to remove it easily.

 Even with a full glass top... liquids tend to roll under edges,  as well as all over control panels / controllers... and thus into the cabinet.

 Finally, you could probably hook up both a standard stick and an analog stick to the same inputs.  Hacking a PC analog controller is pretty easy, and a lot of the new sticks mechanisms are very shallow.  Or, you could hack an analog thumbstick that are in a gamepad... and epoxy putty a hand grip stick to it. (need to add some rubberbands or springs for greater centering power however.

 They do make arcade analog balltops as well.  But they are a little pricey.

[Xiaou2]

An idea...

 Expandable / Hidden   Cocktail / Cabaret

 

[PL1]

you could hack an analog thumbstick that are in a gamepad... and epoxy putty a hand grip stick to it. (need to add some rubberbands or springs for greater centering power however.

Something like this might be more to your liking.




Scott

[Minwah]

Is it possible the pic just makes scale look too deep?  That thing looks set into the tabletop by a good foot.  The Vectrex shroud is only 2.5" deep (I just measured it).

Possibly yes. The tube is only the depth of the Vectrex shroud away from the tabletop. Actually fractionally less because the underside of the tabletop has the surrounding 1cm or so around the screen cutout routed inwards to allow the Vectrex to sit higher.

You will have to trust me on this that angling the Vectrex will not make any real difference. The deciding factor is the depth of the Vectrex shroud.

[Minwah]

Why not make this into a cabaret?   Viewing angle and sitting comfort (learning), is going to be a big factor.

I was going to make a cabaret similar to my Mame vertical cabaret I recently finished. BUT I decided it was a shame to make such a small console into such a (relatively) large cabinet, so I decided to try to make something as small as possible, without de-casing the Vectrex. It couldn't be much smaller!

Also, if it was a typical cocktail, the control panel would be under the table.

Sure. I did think about this actually, but I didn't really want to have the controls sticking out of the front (this would actually make it less comfortable), and there is not enough room inside to have them recessed into the front due to the Vectrex itself being in the way.

If it takes up as much space as a mini or standup.. and making a standup or mini sitdown cab improves visuals and comfort... (as well as sound acoustics, and better focus due to the cabs 'blinder-sides')  ...

It takes up less footprint than a cabaret would...about 20cm less in depth which is a good thing for me. Sound acoustics are not an issue with a Vectrex...I have purposely not made a speaker cutout so that the famous buzz is somewhat filtered by the cabinet.

Another thing to also consider.. is how often something that has open empty flat space, will get something 'temporarily' sat on top of it.  And thus to play it, may require removing piles of stuff that your not even sure where to put.  Sounds crazy, but Ive seen this in many collectors places.

Hah I know what you mean. My mate has a Marantz stereo CD player with a glass top, which opens (tilts back) with a motor. His girlfriends mum is always putting newspapers and books on it which drives him mad!

Dont forget, that if it is going to be a table... do everything you can to make it drink / spill proof.  Such as water-proofing certain areas with sealant. (esp mdf)   Calking edges.  Creating drainage channels.. as well as making sure nothing could drip or dribble into an electronics area.  And finally, drain holes the exit the cab, so that a spill isnt pooled up without any way to remove it easily.

One issue with spills is going to be between the glass and the wood either side...the control panel and the bit on the opposite side. It will be MDF, but all painted or laminated, but still. I am just going to have to be careful!

Finally, you could probably hook up both a standard stick and an analog stick to the same inputs.

Yes I've made a small circuit that would allow me to do this, and I have an analog arcade balltop stick. However for the moment I am just going to use a digital stick. I am not too bothered about most of the games that require analog input.

[ChadTower]

Another option, though an admittedly difficult one, would be to grab a Playstation-Vectrex controller adapter.  That would give you a ton of analog options for the stick.

That said the only one of those units I have ever seen is the one I own.  They were hand made by Clay Cowgill.

[Minwah]

Received the glass, and had some nice weather for a day so got a bit more done:

[ChadTower]

Pretty!

Any concern about the level of glare?  The video on a Vectrex isn't all that strong as it's not made to be viewed through anything other than a cheap overlay.  Even the cheap overlay can dim the pic quite a bit.

[Minwah]

Any concern about the level of glare?  The video on a Vectrex isn't all that strong as it's not made to be viewed through anything other than a cheap overlay.  Even the cheap overlay can dim the pic quite a bit.

I don't think it's a problem, the glass is tinted but not particularly dark. I haven't tried it with an overlay yet but I'm sure that won't be a problem. Looks pretty good!:

[Minwah]

Tried it with an overlay and it looks great!

I made a cartridge extension cable some time ago, and while it works with dedicated carts, I found out last night that it does not work with my VecFlash cart. I guess the ribbon cable is too long so I will need to shorten it and try again. Think I will put that off for a while...not much fun soldering 38 way connectors...

[ChadTower]

Nice!  How are you swapping overlays?

[Minwah]

Nice!  How are you swapping overlays?

The tabletop is hinged so swapping them should be pretty painless...bonus is that the overlays don't need to be clipped in as usual, thanks to gravity.

[ChadTower]

And there are very few games, original or homebrew, where the overlay is actually required.  It is required for any 3D games if you ever get some goggles.

[Minwah]

And there are very few games, original or homebrew, where the overlay is actually required.  It is required for any 3D games if you ever get some goggles.

Yeah I think I've got about 5 overlays...and a few of those for the 80's games I'm not very keen on. I think a lot of the space games suit being played without the overlay. I won't be getting any 3D goggles judging by the price I've seen them going for!

[ChadTower]

Can't blame you there.  I lucked into mine in an Ebay lot that had them in the pic but didn't mention them in the description.

[opt2not]

Tried it with an overlay and it looks great!

It really does! I can't wait to see more pictures of it finished and in action. 

Did you do anything to get the sound cleaner? Vectrex's have a bad habit of audio buzzing, I've read a few tips on how to reduce this but I haven't tried it out on mine yet.

[AGarv]

Any concern about the level of glare?  The video on a Vectrex isn't all that strong as it's not made to be viewed through anything other than a cheap overlay.  Even the cheap overlay can dim the pic quite a bit.

I don't think it's a problem, the glass is tinted but not particularly dark. I haven't tried it with an overlay yet but I'm sure that won't be a problem. Looks pretty good!:

Awesome retro lines! 

Looking great, IMO keep any artwork on this to a minimum.

[Minwah]

Did you do anything to get the sound cleaner? Vectrex's have a bad habit of audio buzzing, I've read a few tips on how to reduce this but I haven't tried it out on mine yet.

Well...not electronically. But I'm just using the built-in speaker, and so with the lid of the table in place, it filters out a lot of the buzz. It works quite well, you can still hear the buzz but it is certainly not as obvious as usual!

[Minwah]

Awesome retro lines! 

Looking great, IMO keep any artwork on this to a minimum.

Thanks! Yes I am planning just the Vectrex US style logo as on the model pics at the start of the thread. Unless I think it looks better without...

[blueznl]

I actually like the controls on-top, they will add to the 'vertigo' effect I guess. I wouldn't worry too much about the screen being 'too deep'.

This brings back memories... I did play some games on a Vectrex machine ages ago... damn, I was young then 

(Though, frankly, dark grey or black would have perhaps looked better, I'm not too much into woodgrain myself, to be honest.)

[Minwah]

(Though, frankly, dark grey or black would have perhaps looked better, I'm not too much into woodgrain myself, to be honest.)

But cocktails *have* to be woodgrain don't they? 

[ChadTower]

Usually a cap kit and some small ground mods clean up that audio buzz.  It is by no means necessary, though, if the audio is decent as it is.   

[opt2not]

Usually a cap kit and some small ground mods clean up that audio buzz.  It is by no means necessary, though, if the audio is decent as it is.   

^^ Yeah, this and I've read about replacing the audio cable connected from the power board to the logic board with a heavy-duty shielded coaxial cable to block the feedback from the yoke circuit.
I haven't got around to doing that myself, so I'm not sure how well it works.

[blueznl]

(Though, frankly, dark grey or black would have perhaps looked better, I'm not too much into woodgrain myself, to be honest.)

But cocktails *have* to be woodgrain don't they? 

Cocktails have never been very popular over here in Europe, I guess. That might explain why I'm not partial to woodgrain... besides, it's not civilised 

[Rick]

That might explain why I'm not partial to woodgrain... besides, it's not civilised 

Rabble! Rabble! Rabble!

[Minwah]

Cocktails have never been very popular over here in Europe, I guess. That might explain why I'm not partial to woodgrain... besides, it's not civilised 

I'm in Europe (UK) and I've seen a fair few cocktails...always woodgrain. I think it is essential for that late 70's / early 80's look 

[ChadTower]

It could also be said that the Vectrex itself is not woodgrain and it's a Vectrex cocktail.  I would have considered making the cabinet a satin black finish like the Vectrex casing.

[opt2not]

Vectrex mini-cade bartops are wood-grained...only 7 of these are known to exist though:


Just saying, it's not totally farfetched.

[ChadTower]

I used to know a guy who had one.  Played it quite a few times.  It's just a vectrex with a coin switch wired to the start button.  The controller is on a countdown circuit.  After about two minutes the controller cuts off and you get to watch the game end whenever your guy dies because you can't move him.

I actually don't remember if you could continue.  I wonder if putting in another coin would do anything or if it would just press the button firing off a missle or something.

[opt2not]

Chad's right, just a case with a timer board and a vectrex installed. I wonder what these things are worth?

Some more pictures of the insides and additional info:  http://vectrexmuseum.com/collection/vectrexminicade.php

*sorry for the slight derailment Minwah.

[ChadTower]

Probably not a ton more than an actual Vectrex.  It's just a generic bartop with a CP that has a hole in it for the Vectrex controller.  There really isn't anything at all unique in it besides that timer board and I remember that being almost breadboardy.

That dude thought he had solid gold, though.  He wouldn't accept less than a grand for it at a time when you could get a NIB Williams DMD game for $1500.

[Minwah]

Bit more progress...more woodgrain ;-)

Hoping for good weather this weekend - if so I should be able to get most of it finished.

[ChadTower]

Very sweet.  Going to put artwork on the sides under the glass?

[koolmoecraig]

That thing is sweet as hell.  The woodgrain is beautiful.

[yotsuya]

I love woodgrain. 

[Minwah]

Very sweet.  Going to put artwork on the sides under the glass?

Yes...just need to find someone that can make me some die cut stickers.

[Minwah]

Had a bit of luck with the weather and managed to get most of the table top finished. Pretty much just need to glue the two woodgrain laminated pieces of wood onto the main table top panel. Then install the controls, bit of wiring, t-molding and get the front lock/catch working.

Hope to have it working by the weekend...

[rockyrocket]

This is an absolute triumph minwah  .

[Minwah]

This is an absolute triumph minwah  .

Cheers! 

Wired up the stick & buttons:

[Minwah]

Had an hour or two playing on it last night, and I'm quite pleased. Controls work nicely and I was able to get my 4th best score on Protector and beat my top score on YASI.

You do need to lean forward to see the very bottom of the screen. Not an issue in some games, but in others (eg Gravitrex) it is critical. So based on that it is more comfortable to play some games than others. This is sitting on a chair...I have a stool which is higher which I haven't tried yet...

[HaRuMaN]

What did you use to interface the controls to the vectrex?

[Minwah]

What did you use to interface the controls to the vectrex?

I made a small circuit to do it, and used a PC serial cable with the plug modified to fit.

I found the circuit schematic online somewhere, it is just 4x resistors (take the +/- 5v down to ~3.4v IIRC) and 2x pots.