Desktop/Coffee Table CP (Planning Stage)

[Buick455]

My little brother has been asking me to make him a CP so he can play in his office or the living room. I know his wife, he will be in his office the most. This project is going to be a re-learning experience for me, my last "proto panel" that I built 10 years ago still isn't finished but its useable for the most part. The wood work isn't going to be daunting, just the software and wiring is.

I have been putting together a parts list. All the new fangled do-dads that have popped up in the last decade make me want to completely re-do my panel but my brothers money is much easier to spend  The fact that he has made me an uncle also makes this more desirable project. I don't want the kid growing up in a house with no retro, what kind of uncle would I be if I let that happen.

The plan:
-Update to newer Mame version (I'm still running 0.71  )
-Update my romset
-Install Mala

Purchase:
2x Auto Switchable joysticks (ServoSitks?)
My panel has 2 switchable T-Stiks and a dedicated 4way Ball top, guests are lost when they play it. The T-Stiks have never been switched other then by me.

Keyboard Encoder (IPac2 USB)
Do to the fact this panel is going to my brother everything needs to play nicely with each other and be simple so I think I want a KB encoder not gamepad.

2x 7 Player buttons (Arcade PRIME? Concave)
I hope they are like my Happ Competitions.

2x Coin Buttons (NovaGemCDR)
They just look neat! Probably wont be lit though.

2x Pl1 & Pl2 start buttons

2x Admin buttons (WHITE - STEALTH™ Illuminated)
I think these can be labeled from the inside for Pause & Exit but wont be lit either

==================================================

Now on to my concerns and questions.
I truly want this to be as simple for my nephew and brother as possible (the kid is still young and my brother isn't very sharp). Hence the auto switching sticks, KB encoder instead of game-pad encoder and just Pause and Exit on the panel. The computer my brother will be using wont be dedicated to Mame so just one Icon (Mala) to click and everything works is a must.
-Can this be done without things running in the background when hes not playing games?

Now I realize that the ServoStiks and the Ipac2 need USB to operate. I would love for the panel to have only 1 cable (back to that ease of use/dummy proof planning I'm worried about). I thought about adding a USB Hub into the panel but I wouldn't do it unless it was powered (to many problems with un-powered ones over the years) so that adds yet another cable to the mix. With a powered hub inside I guess I could lite up those Coin and Admin buttons though, but its not necessary.
-Am I not seeing a better solution?
-Can the IPac2 power and control the ServoStik control board?
-Mala can control the ServoStik right?
-Is there any reason why I should go the "DIY Auto Switching" stick route?
(pololu,servo, switchable sticks) seems like it comes to about the same price but more work.

He told me he did not want to go nuts with this (no graphics, acrylic, lights, t-mold) and to just paint it.. I told him it needs to be durable at least on the panel top but he wouldn't budge. Hell I am going to spring for them Coin buttons just cause I wan to see them. I might try and find a scrap piece of black laminate for the top.
-If I cant find something for the top, What paint would you use?
-You think a round-over bit for the edge of the top is a good idea?

Attached is the sketch of button layout. I liberated much of it from Nephs "2 Headed Beast" (Thanx Neph!) and just moved some stuff around a little, tightened up the spacing of 7 buttons a little also. Might still move the PL1 and PL2 buttons since this panel has a bit more room then Neph had. My brother loved Mortal Kombat so gettin that layout in here is kind of a must (he even liked the movie  ) so this layout looks best to me. I printed it out to scale (PL1 side only) and it feels much more comfortable then my panels 2x4 +thumb layout (What was I thinking when I built mine  ).


 

[Buick455]

Changed my mind on the design... New pic

[PL1]

You may want to put a little distance between the P1/P2 Start buttons and the Pause and Exit buttons.


Scott

[Nephasth]

Attached is the sketch of button layout. I liberated much of it from Nephs "2 Headed Beast" (Thanx Neph!) and just moved some stuff around a little, tightened up the spacing of 7 buttons a little also.

I thought that looked familiar!

The one thing I don't like about my layout is that while it's "ergonomic" in that the button spacing fits my fingers fine, it's not "ergonomic" in relation to how my arm isn't perpendicular to the front edge of the control panel. Due to the tight spacing of the CPs on the Beast, I couldn't rotate the button grouping. However, I did rotate the grouping on a couple of other projects (as well as deleted the 7th button). See the MiniBeast (dead project) and the ZD Invader (completed project) for examples of the rotated grouping. It's far more comfortable for me to play fighters on the rotated grouping vs the straight grouping. Food for thought.

Good luck on your project!

[Buick455]

You may want to put a little distance between the P1/P2 Start buttons and the Pause and Exit buttons.

Very good idea.. The spacing was just to mimic the player buttons on the first design but with all that space on the "dash" I might as well space them out. I also didn't think about my nephew just reaching up and hitting the wrong button and ending a game. Maybe I should put them under a hinged plastic box 

The one thing I don't like about my layout is that while it's "ergonomic" in that the button spacing fits my fingers fine, it's not "ergonomic" in relation to how my arm isn't perpendicular to the front edge of the control panel.

Going to look into this right now. Easy enough to cut out my template and rotate till its more comfortable, shouldn't be too hard of a fix.


Thanks guys 

[Buick455]

Ok, I rotated the player buttons 15 deg. It does feel more comfortable. 15 was like the most I could do before PL1 would elbowing the crap out of PL2. Spaced out the start and admin buttons 2.25" (they were 1.5").

New Pics!!

[JDFan]

I'd actually separate the player and admin buttons -- ie. 1 player start above the 1st player controls - admin buttons in the center and player 2 start above the 2nd player controls -- so each players start button is just above their controls and the admin buttons are grouped together in the center of the panel -- that way much less chance of hitting the wrong button.

[yotsuya]

15 was like the most I could do before PL1 would elbowing the crap out of PL2.

I always knew Scott was a dirty player.

[Buick455]

I'd actually separate the player and admin buttons

I thought about that also but what stopped me is in Mamewah I find myself switching list a lot using PL1 & PL2 Start buttons. On my CP that I use currently I did space them out (24" to be exact) and find myself reaching over people.

I plan to install Mala (or at least try it), will I be doing the same to switch lists, settings and such in Mala?

[PL1]

15 was like the most I could do before PL1 would elbowing the crap out of PL2.

I always knew Scott was a dirty player.

It's not playing dirty, it's winning.   


Scott

[PL2]

15 was like the most I could do before PL1 would elbowing the crap out of PL2.

I always knew Scott was a dirty player.

You have no idea!

[CoryBee]

15 was like the most I could do before PL1 would elbowing the crap out of PL2.

I always knew Scott was a dirty player.

You have no idea!

 

[PL1]

15 was like the most I could do before PL1 would elbowing the crap out of PL2.

I always knew Scott was a dirty player.

You have no idea!

     


Scott

[Buick455]

Ugh! Do little brothers ever stop being a pain in the ass? He called me today and said "Don't get mad, I think I would rather be able to play trackball games and never play them, then never play them b/c I don't have a trackball". While this is sound logic, he could have made this decision a week ago.

My USB-3" Happ is huge and I think it can only be mounted with the metal plate (that I don't have room for in this CP).
Soooo.. What trackball would be a good choice? I think a 3" would be too big.

I did look at Ultimarc and saw that I can buy a MiniPac instead of the IPac2. Will it work with any TB or just Ultimarc TB?

[PL1]

Soooo.. What trackball would be a good choice? I think a 3" would be too big.

Consider using the Sparkfun trackball. (PS/2 interface)



Degenatrons shows a great mounting method on 12mm (1/2") MDF here.

I did look at Ultimarc and saw that I can buy a MiniPac instead of the IPac2. Will it work with any TB or just Ultimarc TB?

It will work with any active-low trackball -- not sure about active-high devices.

Most trackball/spinner optical devices are active-low.


Scott
EDIT: Updated KADE forum URL.

[Buick455]

I forgot to mention that the PC he is using has no PS2 ports on the MB so it would have to be connected to a USB encoder or be USB to begin with.

In my searching I have come up with the following:

Ultimarc:
U-Trac 3"  ---------------------------------------------------------$80   (+ an encoder & trim ring)

Happ:
2-1/4" Trackball with USB and PS/2 Interface, Blue Solid -----$155   (+ Mounting plate)
2-1/4" Diameter White Solid Trackball with Harness ----------- $75   (+ an encoder, Mounting plate)
         
X-Arcade:    
X-Arcade Trackball Assembly: USB ------------------------------ $70
         
GGG:
Groovy-TB 3" Trackball ------------------------------------------- $60   (+ an encoder, Mounting plate)
Electric ICE-T USB ------------------------------------------------ $117  (+ Mounting plate)

PAS:    
3" Arcade Trackball ----------------------------------------------- $55 (out of stock, looks like my 3" Happ, states that its USB/PS2?) (+ Mounting plate)

Twisted Quarter:
2 1/4 " BLACK TRACKBALL W/ USB & PS/2 INTERFACE -------- $70  (+ Mounting plate)


I guess I have some thinking to do.. I was so happy when I got my old Happ TB to replace a PC ball I was using, I guess that's why I'm leaning toward the Electric ICE-T from GGG, just wish they carried a 2.25" version and didn't need a mounting plate.

[Buick455]

Well a little tweaking here and there and we have version #8 of this panel  Look Mom, I'm making a boat!

I don't know if I am happy with the admin and start buttons now though. I needed to get them away from the trackball so they got moved. The panel also got deeper and will stay this deep pending any changes in choice of trackball. I hate that mounting plate but looking at my trackball it seems to be the only way (I have the same plate on mine).

[Xiaou2]

Im not gona get into it about the button placement..  but you probably should move the controls around to give more space around the trackball.. because a high speed roll, and you may slam your hands into the right player stick fairly easily.

 A 9 to 12" diameter from center is best.   Buttons dont matter, cause your hand tends to swoop upwards as it passes center.. but sticks are tall enough to get in the way.   Also for others out there, distance from monitor is also a factor, as you dont want your hand slamming into the monitor glass.

[Buick455]

I agree, I'm a firm believer in the fact that all these controls don't belong on one panel. Right now I have 6 3/4" between the center of the trackball and the P2 stick (7" if you go diagonally). In order to have 9" I would need to add 4 1/2" to a 30 1/4" panel (for this layout anyway). The design started out 26 5/8" wide (same width as a MK panel). I do however find that on my panel the trackball center line being 1 or 2 inches lower then the sticks helps with extreme left and right spins, my 4way stick above the trackball is a totally different mess. On that panel the TB is only 6" from the stick, but 2" lower and my finger tips very rarely hit the P2 controls.

Maybe when I get his fund$, pick up some lumber and start laying this out I can add a curve to the front and lower the ball 3" or 4" instead of just 2" as it is in this layout. Ill have coin buttons to move then along with the stupid admin buttons and finding a good place for the mouse buttons I haven't ironed out yet I know the MB's don't belong on the panel but on mine I installed them and never needed a tray with mouse to navigate windows (probably my most functional mistake).

Also, got some good news that will probably become bad news somehow.. My brother called me today (for the third time) to ask if I want a SF2 cabinet, I always need more junk so I said "sure" and asked him "how much?" he said "free". I guess this cabinets been buried in his garage for 3 years and all the times I been there I never seen it. He said it works and he was storing it for someone that didn't want to move it out of state and said he could just keep it (think he owed him money for storing it). Win for me! (I hope). I told him to just leave it in his garage till I build his panel though b/c I have no workspace in my over-sized 2 car as is..

[Buick455]

Does anybody know if GGG - WHITE SpectraLite buttons look good with printed admin labels, un-lit?

I almost have this shopping list done with 2 prices for him, one with TB and one without.. we shall see how bad he wants it when $$$ is the decider. I hope he does want the TB though, more work to keep me busy. I cant afford any of my own projects (at least not in a lump sum) since I got sick and haven't been able to save very much $$.

[PL1]

You be the judge.

These are the Paradise Translucents, but they are very similar to the Spectralites.

The inserts shown were printed on overhead transparency media (you may want to use adhesive labels like Avery 18665 instead), but if you're not lighting them, you can print on regular paper or photo paper.

The possible problem with using non-adhesive inserts is that they can easily turn while you're pressing the button.

If you use superglue to keep the diffuser from turning, read this cautionary tale and give them time to cure before you assemble them.

Inserts are easy to make your own or use the attached PDF. (updated version)


Scott

[Buick455]

You be the judge.

Ok, that looks really good, better then I thought it would unlit to be honest.. I seen that superglue mess.. ouch!

Thanks