GroovyMAME/GroovyUME 0.149 SwitchRes v0.014b

[emuola]

Hi emuola,

I assume your using the GM v0.147u3, Linux and the Wei-Ya M3129. Please refresh my memory: why would you want to only use the 31kHz range if yours is a tri-sync monitor? You probably had a reason, it's just that I can't remember now.

Anyway, leave alone the switchres.conf

You only need to create a fresh mame.ini (the options you posted are out of date), then edit the option 'monitor' with:

Code: [Select]

monitor m3129
Now, this sets GM to use the three ranges (15-24-31), with GM's default settings for M3129. If you just want to use the 31 kHz range, and your custom settings, do the following (still in mame.ini):

Code: [Select]

monitor custom
crt_specs0 31000.00-32000.00, 55-65, 0.33, 3.58, 1.75, 0.316, 0.063, 1.137, 0, 0, 480, 512, 0, 0
If you wanted to enable the three ranges, but setting the 31 kHz range with your custom settings, do this:

Code: [Select]

monitor custom
crt_specs0 15250-16500, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 1, 1, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_specs1 23900-24420, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 1, 1, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_specs2 31000-32000, 55-65, 0.33, 3.58, 1.75, 0.316, 0.063, 1.137, 0, 0, 480, 512, 0, 0

Thanks Calamity once again for explaining me stuff I don't understand I was planning to do 31Khz only, so that I don't have to fiddle with modelines (to be able to adjust the picture size/position etc). This is what I was told when I first asked about the kind of a monitor to buy. But if GA now has the automated modelines for m3129, I'll be really happy to try out all the "modes".

Cool 

[rCadeGaming]

Emuola, I don't think you understand what the different modes mean, and the significance of running native resolutions.  It sounds like someone gave you some advice that... I won't say it's bad advice, but they were just trying to tell the easiest thing to do, with no regard to what would actually give you a good picture and make the most of your monitor.

Basically, one of the main points of GroovyMAME is to help run these games in their native resolution, meaning the resolution they originally ran in the arcade.  90% of games in MAME originally ran in resolutions around 320x240, meaning they ran in 15kHz resolutions.

15kHz = anything around 320x240 progressive (240p) OR 640x480 interlaced (480i)
25kHz = anything around 512x384 progressive
31kHz = anything around 640x480 progressive (480p)

If you run these 15kHz games in native res they'll be sharp, and they will have authentic scanlines; they'll really look good.  If you run them in 31kHz they have to be upscaled (stretched out to fit a larger resolution), they'll probably be either too blurry or too sharp, and the scanlines will be gone; they won't look nearly as good.

Now games that are actually meant for 31kHz will look great in 31kHZ.  Same thing with 25kHz.  Everything generally looks best in its native resolution.

The whole point of a Tri-Sync is to be able to display all these different resolutions.  I'm sure you paid a good amount of money for that thing, so you should put some work into getting a good picture out of it.  If you're just using it for 31kHz and scaling everything lower up, it's not much better than a computer monitor.

[emuola]

Emuola, I don't think you understand what the different modes mean, and the significance of running native resolutions.  It sounds like someone gave you some advice that... I won't say it's bad advice, but they were just trying to tell the easiest thing to do, with no regard to what would actually give you a good picture and make the most of your monitor.

Basically, one of the main points of GroovyMAME is to help run these games in their native resolution, meaning the resolution they originally ran in the arcade.  90% of games in MAME originally ran in resolutions around 320x240, meaning they ran in 15kHz resolutions.

15kHz = anything around 320x240 progressive (240p) OR 640x480 interlaced (480i)
25kHz = anything around 512x384 progressive
31kHz = anything around 640x480 progressive (480p)

If you run these 15kHz games in native res they'll be sharp, and they will have authentic scanlines; they'll really look good.  If you run them in 31kHz they have to be upscaled (stretched out to fit a larger resolution), they'll probably be either too blurry or too sharp, and the scanlines will be gone; they won't look nearly as good.

Now games that are actually meant for 31kHz will look great in 31kHZ.  Same thing with 25kHz.  Everything generally looks best in its native resolution.

The whole point of a Tri-Sync is to be able to display all these different resolutions.  I'm sure you paid a good amount of money for that thing, so you should put some work into getting a good pictre out of it.  If you're just using it for 31kHz and scaling everything lower up, it's not much better than a computer monitor.

Thanks for the explanation rCadeGaming Actually, I understand the modes, but I was told that I'd get trouble with the monitor settings (h-position/v-position, v-size/h-size, the physical control panel), when mame switched to one mode to another. I was also told that getting all the modes to be displayed perfectly I'd need to manually fiddle with the modelines *a lot*. Thus I was told to scale everything to vga -> one monitor setting "fits all" But now, as GA seems to be very smart with the reolutions, I'm very happy to use all three modes and the native resolutions Woohoo 

I'm just about to get things ready for hooking everything together. Cab is pretty much ready, I just need someone to help me to hook up the m3129 into the cab. That beast is *heavy*

Thank you guys fo all your help so far 

[Calamity]

If GM can control settings through Powerstrip, couldn't I program my front-end to do the same though?  I won't need to with GroovyMAME, but I may need to set timing values before launching a PC game.

Of course, that's perfectly possible. If you check the GM's source, there's a file named pstrip.c, that can be used as a library to interface with Powerstrip with little or no change.

[Monkee]

Hi Calamity,

Thanks a lot for the good work that you've done. 

I still have one suggestion/question: concerning the ones that use GroovyMame on a flat screen or videoprojector, is it possible to reproduce something like that only with software :  http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/t-slg-toodles-scanline-generator-authentic-retro-look-from-your-modern-flatscreen.145407/ because it's apparently a huge improvement in term of confort !

Thanks a lot.

[rCadeGaming]

check the GM's source, there's a file named pstrip.c

Thanks, I'll start there.

[cloaknite]

Hi there, my crt is an hantarex polo/2 28 star, can I use the polo preset or it's better to use the arcade_15_25?
Thanks a lot!

[tyson171]

Anyone use a wells gardner 25k7191?  Is the wells 7131, 7000 preset the best setting for this monitor, or just use the standard arcade 15hz preset?

[Monkee]

Hi guys,
I plan to buy some wiimote to play gun games on groovymame and I'd like to ask you some informations to be sure to make the right choice:

Do we need a bluetooth dongle in the pc and a sensor bar on the tv to use this fonction ?
Do the  Wii MotionPlus/ Wii Remote Plus works on this system ?

Did anyone tried to see if the BigBen Walther P99 replica gun that incorporates the wiimote system inside(https://www.amazon.co.uk/bigben-BigBen-Walther-P99-Wii/dp/B0041NWAT6) or even the Guncon3 are working ?

Thanks a lot.
Monkee

[Calamity]

I plan to buy some wiimote to play gun games on groovymame and I'd like to ask you some informations to be sure to make the right choice:

Are you planning to use Windows or Linux? The wiimote support is for the Linux build, I think you need extra software to achieve that in Windows (never tested myself).

I still have one suggestion/question: concerning the ones that use GroovyMame on a flat screen or videoprojector, is it possible to reproduce something like that only with software :  http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/t-slg-toodles-scanline-generator-authentic-retro-look-from-your-modern-flatscreen.145407/ because it's apparently a huge improvement in term of confort !

Under Windows, you can use hlsl to achieve 'realistic' CRT emulation on LCDs. Google 'hlsl' and MAME, there's plenty of info.

[Monkee]

Thanks Calamity !

I'm using Linux for the moment so I will ask directly on the linux part if it's linked to it, sorry. 

[tyson171]

Calamity,

I just want to say a quick thanks for all the hard work you and anyone has put into GroovyMame!  It truly is a great piece of software and provides unmatched results when it comes to picture quality!  Thanks again and happy holidays M8!

(ps, it is also extremely easy to setup!  I used to spend hours trying to fine tune my old setups!) 

[lettuce]

Remind me what ini settings i need to set if im using a LCD display?

[Calamity]

Calamity,

I just want to say a quick thanks for all the hard work you and anyone has put into GroovyMame!  It truly is a great piece of software and provides unmatched results when it comes to picture quality!  Thanks again and happy holidays M8!

(ps, it is also extremely easy to setup!  I used to spend hours trying to fine tune my old setups!)

Hi tyson171,

Many thanks for your comments, specially for the remarked parted.

[Calamity]

Remind me what ini settings i need to set if im using a LCD display?

It's easier than before. You just need to set the 'monitor' option to 'lcd'

Then, if you're using Powerstrip, enable the 'powerstrip' option.

Finally, define the range your monitor can actually refresh, e.g.:

-lcd_range 57.50-61.00

[lettuce]

Remind me what ini settings i need to set if im using a LCD display?

It's easier than before. You just need to set the 'monitor' option to 'lcd'

Then, if you're using Powerstrip, enable the 'powerstrip' option.

Finally, define the range your monitor can actually refresh, e.g.:

-lcd_range 57.50-61.00

where do i need to place the, refresh value for my monitor in the mame.ini file?

[Calamity]

where do i need to place the, refresh value for my monitor in the mame.ini file?

Of course.

[lettuce]

Do i need powerstrip installed, or can you get away without using it. Any ideas if theres a program that tells you what actual refresh rate your monitor supports? I have a DELL 2405FPW, im guessing its just 50-60hz

[Calamity]

Do i need powerstrip installed, or can you get away without using it. Any ideas if theres a program that tells you what actual refresh rate your monitor supports? I have a DELL 2405FPW, im guessing its just 50-60hz

You can get away without PowerStrip, but that will force all games to run at 60 Hz. Your monitor may probably support whatever refresh but the key question is if it's updating the panel at the input refresh or if it's converting it internally to 60 Hz. You can use Juddertest in combination with Powerstrip to find your monitor's refresh range.

My experience with the Dell U3011 is that it preserves the original refresh for 58-61 Hz, anything lower is converted to 60 Hz. However Powerstrip is still useful here at least for games that are not exactly 60 Hz but are inside the 58-61 Hz range (many, many games), instead of forcing them to run at 60 Hz. Moreover, a game like donpachi that runs at 57.55 is not so bad when forced to 58 Hz than when forced to 60.

[Ansa89]

A friend of mine got this error whenever he tries to start a rom:

Code: [Select]

Exception at EIP=01CE9124 (not found): ACCESS VIOLATION while attempting to write memory at.......
He is using groovymame-0.147u4 32bit self-compiled on windows (using the new official toolchain).

[Calamity]

A friend of mine got this error whenever he tries to start a rom:

Code: [Select]

Exception at EIP=01CE9124 (not found): ACCESS VIOLATION while attempting to write memory at.......
He is using groovymame-0.147u4 32bit self-compiled on windows (using the new official toolchain).

Hi Ansa, just to double check, did he test with our provided builds? Same crash?

[Ansa89]

He can't test official build because there is no "groovymame-0.147u4" (at least I can't find it here).

[Calamity]

He can't test official build because there is no "groovymame-0.147u4" (at least I can't find it here).

Hi Ansa89, the other day I built a binary based on v0.147u4 with the groovy patch applied and it worked flawlesly here (not available in the download site). That type of crash seems to point to some problem when applying the patches, I cannot be sure, anyway.

[dgame]

A friend of mine got this error whenever he tries to start a rom:

Code: [Select]

Exception at EIP=01CE9124 (not found): ACCESS VIOLATION while attempting to write memory at.......
He is using groovymame-0.147u4 32bit self-compiled on windows (using the new official toolchain).

I made a groovymame-0.147u4 and encountered a similar error.
The solution is to move/delete the NVRAM and/or CFG files of the offending ROM and let MAME rebuild them.
Try it and let us know.

[krick]

I just wanted to comment that Pac-Man runs flawlessly with the new GroovyMAME.  It looks great, the sound is perfect, the speed seems correct.  I wasn't able to get it running this good with the older version of GroovyMAME.  Namely, the sound was always off because the game was running slower to sync with the video.   What changed?

[Calamity]

I just wanted to comment that Pac-Man runs flawlessly with the new GroovyMAME.  It looks great, the sound is perfect, the speed seems correct.  I wasn't able to get it running this good with the older version of GroovyMAME.  Namely, the sound was always off because the game was running slower to sync with the video.   What changed?

It's just that now triplebuffering is automatically triggered when the refresh difference if higher than specified by the -syncrefresh_tolerance option. As this is set to 2.0 Hz by default, it means that for 288-line resolutions, which usually won't run higher than 52-54 Hz on arcade monitors, -syncrefresh is turned off and -triplebuffer is used instead. This is great for non scrolling games like pacman. You can play with the -syncrefresh_tolerance option in order to decide how off the refresh must be for enabling this behaviour.

[matrigs]

Sorry if this is a dumb question - but is the Groovyarcade LiveCD iso to be burned simply to cd and booted? It doesn't really want to when i pick Cd-Rom boot in iso.

EDIT: Sorry, being a numpty. Works now.

To still usefully use this post:

I want to use Groovymame with my Sega Naomi Sanwa 29e31s VGA monitor. It is 31khz only. Should i use the standard "CRT 31khz" settings or these custom settings which i found on retrovicio.org:

SANWA 29E31S

(mame.ini)
monitor_specs0 31000-32000, 55-70, 1.60, 3.04, 3.22, 0.44, 0.09, 1.04, 0, 0, 576, 768

What settings would i have to use to make Groovymame linedouble 224p games without applying any stretching, filling the missing lines blank? In a normal Mame build i would set the output resolution to 640x480 and use the options "Switch resolutions to fit" and "Enforce aspect ratio" and it would do exactly this.

With games using very unorthodox resolutions like Ketsui - 448x224 i would additionally have to change the output resolution to 1024x480 to make this work.

Is this achievable in Groovymame, just also with the right timings? In case of Ketsui - is it possible in Groovymame (it isn't in other Mame builds) to only linedouble and not pixel double the resolution to 448x448 to?

Thanks in advance

[Ansa89]

Patch updated for MAME 0.148.
Please test it before upload on the official site.

[krick]

Patch updated for MAME 0.148.
Please test it before upload on the official site.

It seems to work OK so far.  Do you know if any of the recent HLSL changes in baseline mame might have impacted the GroovyMAME code?

[Ansa89]

I'm sorry, I don't know.
The only thing I can say is that digging into mame source, trying to update the groovymame patch, I didn't see any relevant change (speaking of code near the patch hunks); however Calamity probably have a better answer for your question.

[Ansa89]

I made a groovymame-0.147u4 and encountered a similar error.
The solution is to move/delete the NVRAM and/or CFG files of the offending ROM and let MAME rebuild them.
Try it and let us know.

The error persists.

@dgame: did you use the new toolchain to compile it?

[dgame]

Yes I am using the new toolchain and updated to GM 148 using your patch above and all is well.

What game is giving the problem?

[Ansa89]

He tried with shinobi, mk, gng, snow bros and sf2.

[Calamity]

He tried with shinobi, mk, gng, snow bros and sf2.

Hi Ansa89, I would need a full log, disabling the -multithreading option, to have a better idea of where the problem is arising.

[Ansa89]

Here is the log.

[Calamity]

Thanks Ansa. For some reason he has the -modeline option disabled. That shouldn't cause GM to crash (it did in older versions), but I wonder if there's still some bug related to it. First tell him to enable the -modeline option. Apart from that the custom modelines are not being read, this is probably because of the order the displays are listed. How many video cards are there in that system?

[Monkee]

Hi Calamity,

I plan to use GroovyMame on an arcadebox with a old CRT TV but also sometime with a LCD. How may I get original-31khz games to work on their original frequencies on LCD ?

Thanks a lot.
Monkee

[Calamity]

Hi Calamity,

I plan to use GroovyMame on an arcadebox with a old CRT TV but also sometime with a LCD. How may I get original-31khz games to work on their original frequencies on LCD ?

Thanks a lot.
Monkee

You'll need to change the monitor type in mame.ini, either by using a defined preset or custom crt_ranges. Usually you won't send a 31 kHz signal to a LCD, but it's native resolution (that may be way far from 31 kHz). There is a preset named 'lcd' for this. But if you're using Linux it's often better to use the vesa_*** presets.

[Monkee]

Thanks a lot ! 

[Ansa89]

For some reason he has the -modeline option disabled. That shouldn't cause GM to crash (it did in older versions), but I wonder if there's still some bug related to it. First tell him to enable the -modeline option. Apart from that the custom modelines are not being read, this is probably because of the order the displays are listed. How many video cards are there in that system?

He said, he never used the "-modeline" option either with previous versions, but he will try to enable it.
The system has two video cards:
- ati 9250 pci (not pci-e) set as "primary" into bios (this is only used to prevent the boot phase to show up)
- secondary video card used for everything else