Do you think this is too small for a trackball?

[chucklepie]

Hello,
My CP is recessed into the cabinet (about half an inch below at the front and near to the back the cabinet side curves upwards) and it is 66cm by 33cm (26inches by 13inches). The gap on the left joystick and right buttons are about the closest I think you can have to the sides (6cm/2.3in on left and 3cm/1in on the right) to make sure the hands/wrists don't touch the sides.

I'm using one of the Sega layouts from slagcoin. I'm using the widest joystick to button gap (95mm) as I thought the closer gap (63mm) was a bit too close, but I'm not a purist I don't mind moving them half an inch closer together if it means more space.

Do you think from the pictures it'll be a bit too cramped looking or ok? Out of the two I think I prefer the trackball on the bottom (for looks and giving more wrist resting space) but I don't mind really as in this layout it is closer together. Of the two I think the heights of the P1/P2 controls are the lowest/highest I can go to be comfortable and to fit.

Thanks for any feedback.

[paigeoliver]

The top layout is more playable.

I have found that it is physically impossible to install a button TOO CLOSE to the joystick, the joystick base itself is large enough that it gives you the minimum spacing needed. I would go with less space between the sticks and buttons just because that would clear up a little space between the right stick and the trackball.

[chucklepie]

Well, I haven't bought the controls yet as my mate is doing the art work (should be finished next week) and so I was holding off to ensure I get the right colours.

What I did was use the slagcoin layouts printed out and pretending to use the joystick it felt that at the 63mm (2.5inch) gap between centre of the joystick and first button was just too close to be usable, especially for my big hands and the 95mm (about 3.5 to 4 inches) it was better, but I guess that might just be the way I was holding the invisible joysticik

But do you think it's a cramped layout? there's only a handful of trackball games I like and I can swap the trackball for a lightgun, but then again will taking out the trackball make it look too sparse.....

[paigeoliver]

Invisible joystick just doesn't play the same as a real one. I have big hands with fat fingers and really, you can't get them TOO close.

Most lightgun games also work decently with the trackball. I would pick a trackball over a light gun any day of the week.

There is no such thing as too sparse. Pac-Man had a stick and 2 start buttons in a panel almost as wide as yours.

The only real critiques I would have is that I don't recommend the ergo button layout. I have it and wish I didn't. It is way easier to play Streetfighter on the straight layout and that is indeed the layout that Capcom intended (as shown on the SF2 Japanese flyer and every dedicated and kit version of SF made up until around 2007.. The ergo layout has nothing to do with the shape of the hand or anything like that. It came about because Japanese cabinet manufacturers needed to squeeze the higher button fighting games into existing steel cabinet designs that had really narrow control panel areas.

There was always a HUGE crossover between fighting game fans and Japanophiles. Thus they saw the ergo layout (and el cheapo Japanese style joysticks and buttons) to be some how superior to the real layout and correct controls (even though the ergo layout varied wildly from one cabinet manufacturer to the next) and thus they started pushing that layout more and more.

Also, if this is a cabinet that hasn't been built yet I would say that the panel is much deeper than necessary.

[chucklepie]

Hello,
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, it's already built (http://negnegneg.blogspot.com), well the woodwork is done. I made the CP that deep so I could get my wrists on the CP for long comfortable sessions and to get some decent artwork on

As for the ergo layout, I did a lot of reading and the general thing I read was the 6 button grid layout didn't quite feel right (I guess in the same way concave buttons don't).

I haven't cut the holes yet (waiting on the art as he might have different ideas for location of the other buttons), but I think I'm sticking with the button layout but I expect I'll be coming back here saying you told me so. I reckon it'll cost about £30 ($50) to get a new acrylic sheet and art printed/cut so it's a fair bit but not the end of the world if I need to move the buttons.

This is what I've done. I've narrowed the gap slightly between the centre of the joystick and the centre of the first button to be 85mm (3.4 inches) and it feels adequate giving me more room to the edges and to the trackball.

[yotsuya]

Just to throw another viewpoint out there, but I went with the curved 6 button layout, and I love it. I have no issue with it, and neither do guests. I tested both extensively before I drilled, and curved just felt more natural. No one has complained about it while playing fighters.

[rCadeGaming]

In my opinion the "square" layout is nonsense, so I totally support your decision to go with the Sega curved.  I'm using the Astro City layout; looks like you're using that or similar.  I'd recommend adding a seventh button though, four across in either the top or bottom row is good for NEO GEO games and other four button games.  Curved vs. square and 6 vs. 7 has already been argued ad nauseam here:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,118842.0.html

I'm also using the wider spaced joystick placement, and I highly recommend it.  I'm even thinking of trying a little wider.  Moving the stick closer to the buttons may give space on the control panel, but think about the two people sitting next to each other.  The closer the sticks and the buttons, the further in you have to angle your arms.  This points your elbows OUT.  You'll be bumping elbows more this way.  Not so comfortable.

Make the ergonomics of the joysticks first priority, you'll be using them 95% of the time vs. the trackball.

Last thing is that I'd recommend putting the start button closer to the stick and buttons for convenience.  You won't bump it, and there's no need to reach so far every time you press start.  I put it equidistant from the top left button and the stick, and raised up slightly.  I've been using it like this for a few years and it feels very natural.  There's a pic of my layout in the thread I linked to.

Oh, just took a lot at your blog.  I love how you're referring to that Barry Sheene bike for your colors.  I've got a custom 79KZ650B, soon to be an 810.

[eds1275]

I have played both and after a few minutes can';t tell the difference. I went with the 6 button square layout because it reminds me of local arcades when those mythical places existed.

[yaksplat]

keep in mind the mounting area of the trackball.  But that depends on which trackball type that you're using.  Happ style mounting takes up a lot of space, but you can mount a button or joystick right up to the edge of it.

[rCadeGaming]

^ very important.  If you haven't bought a trackball yet you can get the mounting plate dimensions for most trackballs online.  You may be able to mod a mounting plate to squeeze things, but then you need to consider the size/shape of the trackball assembly itself.

[chucklepie]

Hello,
In my diagram that funny shape around the trackball is the mount.

[dfmaverick]

Does the base of the joystick for player 2 clear the trackball assembly as well?

I'm sure you've checked that but thought I'd inquire to be on the safe side. 

[chucklepie]

That's a good question. I'd better check. I haven't decided on the joysticks yet so possibly I forgot to check.