New controller, first build

[Bengaz]

Hi from UK,
I have been  playing MAME on and off since its release but have always been frustrated at using the PC joysticks.
I would love to build an arcade controller to be able to play all my favorite games.
I have done a lot of reading but have so many questions still. They may seem quite silly to must, if they do just ignore them but if anyone has  the time to answer them I will be most grateful so I can get started on building my controller.

Here are some very basic questions: -

I see so many amazing control panels in the gallery section but I see none with 2 player, dual stick layouts (for example smash TV etc), is there any reason why?

Is it easier to buy all the controls I need first, then arrange them how I like in a temporary control lid before I set about with  the final construction?

Will a 4 way joystick work much better than an 8 way (switched to 4 way) for games like Mr Do for example?

Will a 8 way joystick with a top fire button work well in Tron (instead of a flight stick)?

What are the best 8 way joysticks to use for Robotron (my favorite game)?

What does a rotary joystick do?

Is there a UK stockist for Joysticks, buttons etc?

Thanks in advance...

[PL1]

Welcome aboard, Bengaz.

I see so many amazing control panels in the gallery section but I see none with 2 player, dual stick layouts (for example smash TV etc), is there any reason why?

Many people map P1 joystick to the left joystick and P2 joystick to the right joystick.

Is it easier to buy all the controls I need first, then arrange them how I like in a temporary control lid before I set about with  the final construction?

A cardboard box mockup is always an excellent idea to test layouts like the ones on Slagcoin.

Will a 8 way joystick with a top fire button work well in Tron (instead of a flight stick)?

Sure.  Also, there are several people here who have done magnetic triggerstick hacks, (Swap balltop/battop for a triggerstick)  both cordless and corded versions.

Is there a UK stockist for Joysticks, buttons etc?

The wiki has a list of vendors.

Ultimarc and Gremlin Solutions are two very popular choices.


Scott

[Bengaz]

Welcome aboard, Bengaz.

I see so many amazing control panels in the gallery section but I see none with 2 player, dual stick layouts (for example smash TV etc), is there any reason why?

Many people map P1 joystick to the left joystick and P2 joystick to the right joystick.

Is it easier to buy all the controls I need first, then arrange them how I like in a temporary control lid before I set about with  the final construction?

A cardboard box mockup is always an excellent idea to test layouts like the ones on Slagcoin.

Will a 8 way joystick with a top fire button work well in Tron (instead of a flight stick)?

Sure.  Also, there are several people here who have done magnetic triggerstick hacks, (Swap balltop/battop for a triggerstick)  both cordless and corded versions.

Is there a UK stockist for Joysticks, buttons etc?

The wiki has a list of vendors.

Ultimarc and Gremlin Solutions are two very popular choices.


Scott

Thanks very much for your help, and for that useful link...

Anyone know what is the difference with a rotary joystick and what would I use it for?

Do I need a 4 way joystich or a selectable 8/4 way one for the old 4 way games?

[PL1]

Anyone know what is the difference with a rotary joystick and what would I use it for?

Do I need a 4 way joystich or a selectable 8/4 way one for the old 4 way games?

Rotary joysticks info from the wiki -- always the best first stop for a general info question.

Some people prefer to have a dedicated 4-way, others prefer a manually switchable 4/8-way like the GGG Omni 2 or an autoswitching stick like Ultimarc's Servostik. 

Which to choose?  It all depends on your preferences.


Scott

[Bengaz]

I have done a sketch on a possible layout, just so I can order the parts.

Could anyone comment on if I have left anything out to play all the MAME games?

Is it right  that I will require an IPAC 4 to controll all of this?

Does the trackball and the spinner mimmic the mouse?

PS, ive added 2 extra buttons to player 3 and 4.

[Bengaz]

If I want a dedicated Q bert stick, do I just mount another 4 way at 45 degrees or whats best for Qbert thx?

[PL1]

Bengaz:

I assume that you'll be playing around with the spacing, putting the diagonal cutouts on the front of the panel instead of the back, and putting all the joysticks to the left of the associated player buttons.

One thing that I noticed is that you don't have Escape (exit), Enter (select), or Tab (menu) buttons or coin buttons for players 2, 3, or 4.

Is that 3 pairs of mouse buttons?

The biggest danger that I see is that in trying make a panel to "play all the MAME games" you could VERY easily end up with the dreaded "Frankenpanel".

Start with the list of games you definitely want and add the controls that they call for.

Spend some time reviewing the Hall of Fame thread for design ideas and take notes on what you like.  Ask yourself, "Why did they do it that way?"

The time you spend on design now will be time and money saved when you are happily playing a well designed panel instead of being all because you can't stand the layout and wonder why you wasted the $$$ and effort on making it 4-player instead of using a couple of USB gamepads for the 3 times in the last 2 years that you've actually used player 3 and 4.

One-panel-plays-all is impossible, but one-panel-plays-almost-all-of-what-I-want is definitely attainable.


Scott

[Javinator]

There are some great examples of people who have modular CPs or swappable CPs in the Hall of Fame and elsewhere around these boards as well (like in this great thread!).

I'd take a look at those too and do a bit more research on the available products to you before making any purchases . GGG is another popular supplier on these boards you might want to check out.

[Bengaz]

That says "invalid url"?

I have taken the information on board (thanks) and have decided on a 2 player set up.

I still cant decide on just 2 switchable 8/4 way joysticks or a separate 4 way.
 
Could anyone advise better on that point please?

[PL1]

That says "invalid url"?

Fixed URL.

I still cant decide on just 2 switchable 8/4 way joysticks or a separate 4 way.
 
Could anyone advise better on that point please?

That decision depends on personal preferences and the games you want to optimize for.   

If you want to split the difference, leave room for a dedicated 4-way and start with the switchables.

If they don't feel/play right in 4-way mode, you can add the 4-way later.


Scott

[shponglefan]

I have done a sketch on a possible layout, just so I can order the parts.

Could anyone comment on if I have left anything out to play all the MAME games?

Is it right  that I will require an IPAC 4 to controll all of this?

Does the trackball and the spinner mimmic the mouse?

PS, ive added 2 extra buttons to player 3 and 4.

Looks like a decent start, but a few caveats come to mind:

1) Player 2 and 3 buttons on the wrong side.  Unless you have a specific reason to accomodate a backwards joystick/button setup, just put all joysticks on the left and buttons on the right.
2) For a 4 player panel, you'd want at least 3 buttons for 3 and 4, or ideally 4 for each.  Alternatively, just make it a 2 player panel and use gamepads for player 3 and 4.
3) More coin buttons needed for player 2, 3 and 4.  Unless you plan on using shifted fuctions or something.
4) Control panel seems extremely wide.  Don't make this mistake.
5) Trackball is too low; you'll need to move it higher to accomodate mounting it, depending on what's underneath.
6) Too many mouse buttons.  I'd probably leave them out entirely.  Just buy a wireless mouse for when you need an actual mouse.
7) Between the 4-way, 8-wire/fire + spinner, you may need to sacrifice at least one of those.  One thing to consider is that joysticks require a certain amount of space, both for mounting and also usability.

[Bengaz]

Latest idea:-

2 player set up with 2no 8ways and 2no 4ways, one of which mounted at 45 degrees for Qbert.
Trackball with mouse L and R. (L for defender reverse also)
6 admin buttons and 12 fire buttons.

Is there anything I have missed out do you think?

Not going for spinner and fire top now...