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The Complete Noob's First Project Thread - (No Theme/Name yet...)
walterg74:
this definitely goes into my notes book
--- Quote from: Ond on June 09, 2012, 06:33:02 pm ---10 coats of paint is probably overkill :) . I've copied over some notes from my project thread on my painting method which got me to here:
" Surface preparation – my goal is to prep any surface regardless of what the material is, MDF, plywood, aluminium, plastic etc to the same pre-prepared state. That means all pits, grain, bumps GONE. For this I use Bondo & automotive single pack putty & primer. Several coats with sanding in between are needed to achieve the prepared surface finish. There are various primers available, cheaper household primers will not get the same finish. I know, I’ve tried. Where a mirror finish is concerned, automotive products in general (which are more expensive) are what I recommend. Now I’m not saying you can’t get good results with cheaper household type products but the quality of products you use does make a difference including how hard it dries and how fine and evenly it sprays from the rattle can or spray gun.
Multiple coats – I’ve found you need at least 3 coats of primer and 3 of paint (preferably 4) to get the desired results including colour depth etc.
Eliminate orange peel - not just minimize it, eliminate it completely. With quality paint, each sanded coat becomes finer and finer as far as the peel effect goes, this is also helped by spray technique. When spraying, the rule is, spray several light coats as many folk advise (with a short break between each) – except your final pass, make that a little heavier, good paint will settle to a very smooth finish if a slightly heavier final pass is applied.
Allow plenty of drying time - why doesn’t Ond post an update?? – cos I’m sitting around waiting for paint to dry properly! OK lame excuse (there’s always something you can progress on your cab given you have the time). Give the paint at least 3 days preferably 5 to dry. It makes a difference in the next steps.
Sanding -whether you are working on either the primer refining stages or paint refining stages wet sanding is the way to go. The mechanical action of wet sanding with regular dips in the water with the paper and surface wipe with damp cloth give the best results. I spend about an hour on any single surface working through grades of paper but I never go beyond 600 grit between coats of paint. 600 grit produces the right surface for paint to adhere to.
Final Finish - this is where the magic happens assuming the proper preparation has gone before it. So you’ve got your final paint coat to a fine finish using 600 grit wet sanding. The surface now has a dull kind of plastic look but is entirely peel free. I work through the next grades perhaps 30 mins on each of 800 then 1200 (you can skip straight to 1200 if you want) and then 2000 grit wet sand. Now the surface is shiny, it’s nice but under good light swirl scratches are evident. Medium grade cut and polish compound applied with a soft rag ( I like to use old towels )is next. Spend about 20 mins doing that and wipe it all away with another clean rag. Now you have an impressive shiny surface with only the finest swirl marks visible under good light. If there’s any peel visible YOURE OUTTA THERE, go back to sanding with 600 until it’s gone.
Now it’s time for auto finish swirl remover, apply the liquid with a soft cloth – spend about 30 mins on this at least. Buff clean. The Grail is in sight, are we there yet? No. Finally take a lamb’s wool buffer on a mechanical buffer and buff lightly all over. Lightly because too much pressure and you can cut through the paint and cause a burn mark which in my case ends up in a screaming fit which sets the neighbourhood dogs barking and startles the neighbours. Did you buff lightly? Then you are there, you’ve reached paint gloss finish nirvana, congratulations! "
There are also some discussion between javeryh (the guy that did Bella's Arcade) and myself about my surface prep and painting here.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=88912.msg1252162#msg1252162
:cheers:
Ond
--- End quote ---
Ok.. come on... Admit it man... you're pullin my leg.... THAT on the picture sir, is a piece of plastic!!! :laugh2:
Seriously though, VERY good tips, and this DEFINITELY will go into my notes book...!
For this particular project though, I'm not aiming for such a finish, and I in fact want a nice matte finish, or semi-gloss, not really glossy and shiny. But I wil definitely consider this for a following project (yeah.. I 've been warned this gets addictive.. ::) ) So thanks again for pointing this out to me, these steps are priceless :)
:cheers:
walterg74:
--- Quote from: Le Chuck on June 09, 2012, 09:00:50 pm ---I see what you're saying about the back panel. Now that you can move the control board out of the way I'd just chop off the stand that hangs off the bottom then reassemble since you were doing a vesa mount. You won't see the cut piece and it won't do any damage to the fuction and installation of the monitor.
If you're feeling froggy make an MDF bezel but it isn't necessary, I say chop it.
CP layout looks good, I recommend playing with it on a variety of games and I also recommend having more space round the joystick than around the last buttons so if you have the room shift right some. Also putting P1 and P2 side by side along the top will allow you to center a bit better. You have plenty of room tho so find something comfortable.
I would bottom mount those joys. You can drill your center hole then take the mounting plate off and use that to template the area to round in a bit, tho with only 15mm MDF you probably wouldn't need to route in much to get good standoff for your bat height.
Most I've ever done is 5 coats with primer (I can't bring my self to triple coat primer) and I've had some pretty good success with my paint finishes but too each their own. Follow OND's advice is the best advice I can give.
--- End quote ---
Yeah.. I'l think about it and decide... The only con of chopping it off, is that later this monitor is only good for either another cab or something, as I can't re-assemble it. cons of the bezel is the work of course... So, we'l see...
For the CP, definitely need a bit more space around thejoystick (on the left since I'm a lefty) but also like I said since the cardboard was even a few cm shorter, I have some space to play around with. I kinda didn't like the P1 P2 along the to in the designs I've seen specially cause a) it would take vertical space I might be more confortable with for my palms, and b)looked kinda of for my little not-too-many-elements CP... but we'll see, it's just a question of playing around with it a bit more during this week that I have to do the filling, sanding, etc. anyway
also good idea about taking of the mounting plate as a template, hadn't thought of that! Bottom mounting is what I had though of first, so good :) all I have to do now is see how exatcly to route that (what bit, method, etc.)
For paining, so you say you've never done more than 5 coats, and can't bring yourself to triple prime, so that means your standard is 2 primer coats and 3 paint coats, correct?
Ok, lots of good info!! I guess now it's decide on the CP, cut it, prepare prime paint, so let's see how all this goes... :P
thanks for the continous support!!!
:cheers:
walterg74:
--- Quote from: AlienInferno on June 09, 2012, 10:07:31 pm ---Just found this thread. Good build so far. It makes me want to start building a cab all over again, and I'm not even finished with my first. I found the most enjoyment from building the major components of the cab. It's just cool seeing it take shape and know that you are the one that built it.
--- End quote ---
Thanks!
Yeah, definitely cool watching it take shape like you say ;)
walterg74:
Ok, so here's another news flash while I wait for the putty to dry (and which I'll probably have to redo as I didn't know exactly how to apply and went about doing willy nilly... ::) )
Just looked at my list of favourite vertical games, but not only that, I also looked at the entire list on KLOV, and it seems that you can count the vertical games with 4 or more buttons with your fingers only... Really few and most are obscure ones! In fact the only ones I liked were Toobin' with 5 buttons (and no joy) and Vanguard with 4 buttons...
So I'm starting to re-think this and wonder why do I want to waste 3 buttons that will never get used... I might as well just use a 3 button design, right?
Eeven 3 buttons are few, but several I like at least, and most are just 2 and 1 button...
Would you guys agree?
:cheers:
MaxVolume:
--- Quote from: walterg74 on June 11, 2012, 07:50:48 pm ---So I'm starting to re-think this and wonder why do I want to waste 3 buttons that will never get used... I might as well just use a 3 button design, right?
--- End quote ---
Well, yes and no... mostly yes, though. As the guy who runs the CrapMAME page says repeatedly, MAME is so configurable there's no real need to include a multitude of buttons. Of course he's mostly talking about admin buttons, but it's a good point in general. I'll go ahead and say what others are probably thinking and may end up posting before I even finish typing... buttons are dirt cheap, and it's easier to include enough buttons in the first place than it'll be to add them later. With that said, if you're absolutely sure all the games you want to play don't use more than 3 buttons, you can definitely limit yourself to that. However, there's always the possibility that a new game will be upgraded to "working" status in MAME that you had forgot about and it really needs more buttons, or you might simply change your mind about certain games.
Personally, I've played a lot more console games than arcade games, but as I've learned more about the actual machines ("Asteroids only used buttons?") I've started to see how the consoles "cheat" in order to use one single controller and a limited number of buttons to play games that originally had more than that. Obviously now there are gamepads with over a dozen buttons each, but back in the day developers had to contend with having only two or three, and sometimes even just ONE button (ATARI 2600, anyone?). Given your example of Toobin', you can duplicate the functions of those buttons with the joystick and your existing buttons. One of them is just START, so that can be your normal 1P/2P start buttons. Unfortunately the other four aren't as simple as up/down/left/right, but again MAME can be configured to give you the same result with the joystick. I'd advise against making up/left be the upper-left paddle button, etc. since you might develop carpal tunnel syndrome going back and forth so many times. What I would do is to make LEFT+button1 be "paddle up/left", RIGHT+button2 can be "paddle down/right", etc. That way all you have to do is retrain yourself to play by moving the joystick in the direction you want to go (should be natural anyway), and hit either button 1 or button 2 depending on whether you want to go up or down. This is very similar to some early fighters, where you move the stick to indicate a high or low punch/kick and then push the punch or kick button rather than having a dedicated button for each punch/kick type, which became the standard later. Yes, it's going to seem a bit weird if you played the game in arcades for years and have perfected your button-mashing technique, but no MAME cabinet's control panel is going to be arcade-perfect for every game, and the ones that are intended to be end up littered with controls that are rarely used and largely redundant.
If anyone ever asked me why I don't have a 4-way joystick on my current project, I'd tell them the same thing. First of all, the vast majority of games like PAC-MAN, Donkey Kong, TRON, etc. that really need a 4-way are covered by my cocktail table, which does have 4-way sticks. Also, games like Wizard of Wor, etc. that will be on the current one have been played on consoles for years with 8-way joysticks. I'll concede that "I can't go left" was a common complaint among casual gamers back in the day because they were actually moving up/left, but if you're precise enough in your movement of the stick, you'll be pressing LEFT most of the time, and if you slip into up/left for a millisecond or two, it shouldn't make much of a difference. I also only have three buttons on my cocktail, because it had two when I bought it and I uncovered a third smaller hole upon removing the CPOs into which I installed a Sanwa button (actually, maybe a Seimitsu now that I think about it). Anyway, as it turns out, that third button is almost never used because the vertical 4-way games I have on that cab generally max out at 2 buttons. I actually use it to switch between game lists, so it doesn't go to waste at all.
The point of all this is that you do have to make sure you have an adequate number of buttons, but as long as you've carefully researched your needs, you can certainly stop when you think you have enough. I don't know if you've got far enough to be considering admin buttons, but I'll leave you with one piece of advice that I don't think a lot of builders realize: the game is NOT running when you see your front-end. That means that all those buttons that are normally assigned to punch/kick, etc. are FREE to use when the menu is showing. Now of course you don't want to make "high kick" your pause button as well, but with some careful planning, you can assign a combination that won't be pressed accidentally during gameplay. I have discrete START and EXIT buttons on my cocktail cabinet simply because the panels had holes available for them and I felt there was no point in putting both start buttons on each panel. With the current project (a mini-upright), I basically rushed the control panel design because it ended up being done by someone else and I needed to get them a set of plans to work from. That turned out to be a GREAT idea, but I didn't have time to add any extra buttons, and now that it's built I don't think I would have had room for any. I saw that a lot of people used 1P START + 2P START as pause, but I'm using that as exit since there's no separate button... pause will be some other combo. Also, I never like putting a "coin" button on any of my cabinets. It's just so easy to assign a combo in MAME that I can simply tell people about when they come over to play my cabinets instead of advertising it on the control panel or instruction card. I get that things like "TAB" can't really be assigned to a gameplay button, but again you can create some sort of combo if necessary. Since it's not a frequently-used key, it's usually better to just have a wireless keyboard handy, but it doesn't necessarily have to be stored inside the cabinet (and don't even get me started on keyboard drawers :angry: ). I was lucky enough to find a wireless keypad that actually had TAB on it (surprisingly, most of them don't) for my cocktail table, but for some reason a lot of the other keys aren't recognized properly by MAME.
Anyway, I hope you got something out of all my ramblings. :)
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