So, are we allowed to talk about sh-III in mame?

[shateredsoul1979]

or has there been a gag order placed on any talk regarding that topic?

[yotsuya]

Some of us would talk about it if we knew what it was.

[Hoopz]

You should have received a PM telling you it was ok to talk about.  If you didn't get that PM, you aren't supposed to bring it up.

[BadMouth]

He's talking about the Cave hardware.
It worked in v143u9, but support was pulled for v144 after Cave contacted the MAME team and asked them to remove it.
Apparently, they are still selling these games, so it was in violation of MAME dev's own policies anyway.

Personally, I'd drop the issue.
If everyone posts tutorials and releases alternative builds just to run these games,
it will only serve to damage MAMEdev's reputation and set up for legal obstacles for future developement.

I have a lot of newer games running on my setups using other emulators, but this is MAME.  
MAME is different.  It's focus is on preservation.  
These games aren't in any danger of being lost forever if they are still being manufactured.

It would be a shame for the whole project to go down the legal toilet over a few shmups.  

If someone were to build a standalone emulator for this hardware that doesn't use any MAME code, I have no problem with that.
If they get in trouble, not as much is lost.

[yotsuya]

He's talking about the Cave hardware.
It worked in v143u9, but support was pulled for v144 after Cave contacted the MAME team and asked them to remove it.
Apparently, they are still selling these games, so it was in violation of MAME dev's own policies anyway.

Personally, I'd drop the issue.
If everyone posts tutorials and releases alternative builds just to run these games,
it will only serve to damage MAMEdev's reputation and set up for legal obstacles for future developement.

I have a lot of newer games running on my setups using other emulators, but this is MAME.  
MAME is different.  It's focus is on preservation.  
These games aren't in any danger of being lost forever if they are still being manufactured.

It would be a shame for the whole project to go down the legal toilet over a few shmups.  

If someone were to build a standalone emulator for this hardware that doesn't use any MAME code, I have no problem with that.
If they get in trouble, not as much is lost.

Thanks for the info. I totally agree with the points you make.

[BadMouth]

Anyone have any info about if anything went on between Cave & Demul?

All the youtube videos of Cave games running on the Demul .5.7 WIP were taken down,
but I never heard anything about Cave contacting Demul.

Now that we know they contacted MAMEdev, it makes me curious about what happened with Demul.

[ark_ader]

Anyone have any info about if anything went on between Cave & Demul?

All the youtube videos of Cave games running on the Demul .5.7 WIP were taken down,
but I never heard anything about Cave contacting Demul.

Now that we know they contacted MAMEdev, it makes me curious about what happened with Demul.

Why?  The cat is out of the bag.

[Xiaou2]

This is where I can say "I told you so".

 Devs thought their 3 yr rule was good enough.  However, in the field of Arcades, thats a very short time.  Maybe it takes an op a year to decide to buy the board/game..  and then they still have try to make a profit off of that thing.  Many of these machines cost thousands of dollars, so the turn around is based on like +6yrs of operation.

 Some Arcade companies have allowed Ops to get screwed over, by releasing modern console ports in a few yrs time.  This has lined their pockets.. and destroyed the arcades.

 Id say the Rule needs to be more like 6 to 7yrs to be safe.  Not that I even care, because most games made in this new era are complete garbage that are not even worth playing.

[shateredsoul1979]

3 year rule? I thought it was more like 10 or 5 years? Did they change that?

Yup, it's about the Cave Sh-III driver. They put it in mame starting with mame 143u8 I think (or u7) then sound was added in u9. I'm not sure if they meant for it to go public just yet because you could only launch the games via command line.

Here's the thing though.... the rule doesn't really cover them completely. A lot of people thought it was too soon for the cave games considering some released on the xbox 360 recently. But, if the rule was based on whether the games were still profitable then they'd have to remove all of the good classics because those are being sold on xbox live and in compilations today. I personally think it was a fine way to test the waters. They tried and cave asked them to remove the drive. So they did and that was the indication that it was still too soon. Maybe when cave moves on to a different engine we'll see it back in mame.

But yeah, I have no issue, with using mame to play those games,  I'm not sure about the tutorial stuff, I'd probably just leave it up to people to find a version of mame that can play the games. I would be interested in hearing more about how they decided to do this, and whether demul will still have the cave games.

[Donkbaca]

The actual rule is whether or not they are making enough money selling these games now to justify legal action against a bunch of nerds to protect those sales.

[saint]

Id say the Rule needs to be more like 6 to 7yrs to be safe.  Not that I even care, because most games made in this new era are complete garbage that are not even worth playing.

So, basically, they should change the rules because they wouldn't apply to your interests.   

That's pretty much the opposite of what he said.

[lettuce]

Well this sucks...back to 0.143u9 then.

I think for people who are really serious about their shut em ups, they wouldnt even consider using MAME as an alternative for CAVE games and would buy the really PCB to put into their cabs. So CAVE requesting MAME to remove their games wont have any effect on their so called sales what so ever!!!

[Havok]

Meh. No loss anyways. I'd have to agree with Xiaou2 - 3 years is definitely too short. I'd say probably 10 years is better.

[Gray_Area]

Well this sucks...back to 0.143u9 then.

I think for people who are really serious about their shut em ups, they wouldnt even consider using MAME as an alternative for CAVE games and would buy the really PCB to put into their cabs. So CAVE requesting MAME to remove their games wont have any effect on their so called sales what so ever!!!

I would argue people who are serious about shooters wouldn't play anything after '97 or 8. (I played Gigawing yesterday, and I thought it blew elephant dorks. That it didn't display at 15khz was bad enough.....)