Software Support > GroovyMAME
640x480p@200Hz in SCART TV and monitor specs
rjpe:
Hi,
I've been struggling with my odd SCART TV since I've started my project.
I bought a brand new one DPM 28'' (BEKO Chasis C7/C8) in the end of 2009, and I couldn't get progressive modes like 640x288p.
I've tested it with Soft15Khz, ArcadeVGA version 1 and 2, and the best I resolutions I could get was 640x480 or 720x480 interlaced.
All the progressive resolutions looked worse that the interlaced ones (very flashy and trembling).
This weekend I finnaly tested Calamity Drivers for XP64 and groovy mame.
After a few driver uninstalls / installs of the drivers, mame.ini tweaking, I finally got it!
1 - install the Calamity 64 bit driver for new cards (mine is a ATI Radeon HD3650 AGP);
2 - edit VMMaker.ini, choose "CGA" has monitor type, run VMMaker and reboot
3 - in ArcadeOS choose 640x480p@200Hz (native) - this was impressive to see!
4 - in mame.ini, set the monitor to NTSC
5 - in mame.ini, set the resolution0 to 641x480@200Hz - it's really 641, in order to resolve overscan (the XP desktop has overscan for 640x480@200Hz and can't be solved with the geometry settings in the service menu, for 640x480@59 or 640x480@60 there is no overscan).
6 - Activate other tweaks in mame.ini (soundsync, triplebuffer, etc.)
That's it - High Quality image in Maximus Arcade Front-end and amazing resolutions in groovy mame!
My eyes and the eyes of my son thank you all very much for improving the image quality on my cab!
Keep up the good work, advanceMAME has finnaly got a substitute!
If my SCART TV is abble to do this, I'm sure that if I would insert the right monitor specs in VMMaker.ini and regenerate the resolutions, I would have a perfect system!
Can anyone help me configuring the monitor specs?
How do I start? I have the service manual, but I don't see any useful information for this.
Best!
Calamity:
Hi rjpe,
I'm curious about that TV, is it possibly a 100Hz model? This is something I still need to test, because what could be happening is that your TV is accepting progressive modes via SCART, but not in the 15Khz range but above, however I have no knowledge of any TV doing that. If that is the case, maybe you could feed it with high resolution signals.
So when you set 641x480@200Hz is it actually a progressive resolution or a de-interlaced one? What I've seen in my system is that when you have a custom resolution of 640x480@60i defined, the refreshes above that (100, 200, etc.) are actually overriden by the one defined (60i Hz), so they're just dummy resolutions. So I bet there is a 641x480 resolution defined as a custom one in your system, probably at 60i Hz too, is it true?
On the other hand, when forcing a resolution with the 'resolution0' param I think GroovyMAME won't be able to recalculate resolutions, so you will be running your games with a fixed resolution (although you can force them run vsynced by using the -syncrefresh param).
rjpe:
Hi Calamity,
Thanks for the reply. Excelent work with the driver, VMMaker and ArcadeOS.
Sailorsat told me that it might me a 100Hz TV set... because it doesn't like progressive resolutions in Soft15Khz.
The oficial manual/specs state that it does PAL 50Hz and PAL 60Hz.
the service manual can be found at http://www.mediafire.com/?n3ynyqw2mii
Maybe it is doing interlaced at 100Hz. It looks progressive because the image is not trembling anymore, and finaly I can notice the scanlines. :)
I'm running the games at a fixed resolution because some lower resolutions, like 320x240p, don't work, and the ones that work (like 384x224) look worse (trembling image, lower refresh rate).
I'll try today the -syncrefresh param and see how it looks.
Regarding the resolutions, I have 4 questions:
- How do I remove the modelines that don't work?
- How do I insert new modelines? I generated the modelines through VMMaker with 3 options (CGA, NTSC and PAL), and some of the modelines are exclusive of one type of monitor, but they work at my TV. I notice, through ArcadeOS, that everytime I generate a type of modelines (CGA, NTSC, etc.), the previous modelines disappear (at least in ArcadeOS). VMMaker says that I have about 400 modelines ???
- If I remove the non-working modelines, groovy mame stops trying to used them, right?
- For last, from where I can start learning how to change the modelines? I still don't understand all those parameters (pixel clock, h-sync and so on...). If I edit, per example, 384x224p refresh, ghouls n ghost would look better in it's original resolution.
Txs in Advance
Calamity:
--- Quote from: rjpe on August 29, 2011, 09:27:55 am ---Sailorsat told me that it might me a 100Hz TV set... because it doesn't like progressive resolutions in Soft15Khz.
The oficial manual/specs state that it does PAL 50Hz and PAL 60Hz.
the service manual can be found at http://www.mediafire.com/?n3ynyqw2mii
Maybe it is doing interlaced at 100Hz. It looks progressive because the image is not trembling anymore, and finaly I can notice the scanlines. :)
I'm running the games at a fixed resolution because some lower resolutions, like 320x240p, don't work, and the ones that work (like 384x224) look worse (trembling image, lower refresh rate).
I'll try today the -syncrefresh param and see how it looks.
--- End quote ---
100 Hz chassis have de-interlacing mechanisms so there's a chance the signal suffers some re-processing, so interlaced sources are shown as progressive.
However, I think you're seeing a different issue there, related to your card. Radeon HD2000 & HD3000 families are known to have problems supporting low dotclocks, that's why you can't use low resolutions. Edit the 'dotclockmin' value to something like 7.39, both in vmmaker.ini and mame.ini, and recalculate the modelines. That will force resolutions below that dotclock to be double wide, bypassing this problem. The result in Mame is undistinguishable.
--- Quote ---Regarding the resolutions, I have 4 questions:
- How do I remove the modelines that don't work?
--- End quote ---
Not possible yet. This was conceived as an automatic system so the user shouldn't need to delete resolutions provided the right settings are used. However I'll end up adding that as is requested all the time.
--- Quote ---- How do I insert new modelines? I generated the modelines through VMMaker with 3 options (CGA, NTSC and PAL), and some of the modelines are exclusive of one type of monitor, but they work at my TV. I notice, through ArcadeOS, that everytime I generate a type of modelines (CGA, NTSC, etc.), the previous modelines disappear (at least in ArcadeOS). VMMaker says that I have about 400 modelines ???
--- End quote ---
400 is probably the number of input resolutions, but output modelines is probably 120.
In order to insert new resolutions add them to the ReslList.txt file, using the same format.
Some settings that fit most TVs are these:
monitor_specs_0 = "15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 448"
(This is the same as CGA but with a somewhat higher hfreq allowed). You need to enable "CUSTOM" monitor_type in vmmaker.ini. In mame.ini just copy the line like this:
monitor_specs_0 15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 448
--- Quote ---- If I remove the non-working modelines, groovy mame stops trying to used them, right?
--- End quote ---
Yes, GroovyMAME just uses available video modes.
--- Quote ---- For last, from where I can start learning how to change the modelines? I still don't understand all those parameters (pixel clock, h-sync and so on...). If I edit, per example, 384x224p refresh, ghouls n ghost would look better in it's original resolution.
--- End quote ---
There many references, but I'll tell you how I learned about this: messing with the Winmodelines program. However, you can probably find Arcade_OSD easier as it allows you to test changes without rebooting.
rjpe:
--- Quote from: Calamity on August 29, 2011, 07:44:02 am ---So when you set 641x480@200Hz is it actually a progressive resolution or a de-interlaced one? What I've seen in my system is that when you have a custom resolution of 640x480@60i defined, the refreshes above that (100, 200, etc.) are actually overriden by the one defined (60i Hz), so they're just dummy resolutions. So I bet there is a 641x480 resolution defined as a custom one in your system, probably at 60i Hz too, is it true?
--- End quote ---
Yes, the 641x480 is 60i Hz. I saw it listed in Winmodelines.
--- Quote from: Calamity on August 29, 2011, 07:44:02 am ---On the other hand, when forcing a resolution with the 'resolution0' param I think GroovyMAME won't be able to recalculate resolutions, so you will be running your games with a fixed resolution (although you can force them run vsynced by using the -syncrefresh param).
--- End quote ---
Yes it's true, but for my TV this image looks better like this, when using the original res (the ones that work), the games look awfull... resolutions listed has progressive look interlaced. Like I said before, it is a odd TV :)
I was already using the -syncrefresh
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