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Author Topic: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards  (Read 6945 times)

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lettuce

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Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« on: July 11, 2011, 04:12:58 pm »
Can GroovyMame be used on an Nvidia card?? I know it wont be able to do the generated resolutions, but want to use it for the timing and screen tearing tweaks that is uses??
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 04:31:28 pm by bitbytebit »

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 04:30:55 pm »
Can GroovyMame be used on an Nvidia card?? I know it wont be able to do the generated resolutions, but want to use it for the timing and screen tearing tweaks that is uses??

Yes it can, although mostly the timing/tearing fixes are from it actually changing the modelines for the ATI drivers/cards.  It's still useful and can be combined with Soft15khz to basically do what cabmame can do, essentially can have the setup be done that way with an NVidia card.  
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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2011, 04:31:57 pm »
i cant get this to work with an nvidia card keep getting this message when doubleclicking on the mame.exe file

SwitchRes: Failed opening

Systemzcurrentcontrolset\control\video\DEB blah blah balh\000 registry entry with error 5

any ideas?

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2011, 04:56:17 pm »
i cant get this to work with an nvidia card keep getting this message when doubleclicking on the mame.exe file

SwitchRes: Failed opening

Systemzcurrentcontrolset\control\video\DEB blah blah balh\000 registry entry with error 5

any ideas?

Try running a game through it from the command line.
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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2011, 05:07:23 pm »
Well heres the thing have tried that, and it keeps coming up that the rom files are missing, even though i have pointed the ini file to c:\mame\roms

even if i just type 'mame' in the command line without a rom file name after it, it loads mames own built in gui, and even lists the roms i have in the rom folder, but when i select one it says that a file or CHD is missing!??
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 05:11:17 pm by lettuce »

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2011, 05:35:25 pm »
So which one is the issue actually? Mame not finding roms/chds or that other error message when reading video registry? BTW which Windows version are you testing?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2011, 05:48:43 pm »
It appears to be both, but have just downloaded some more roms and these work so i think it might be old rom version that are the problem not mame?  Im running win7 64bit

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2011, 05:59:34 pm »
It appears to be both, but have just downloaded some more roms and these work so i think it might be old rom version that are the problem not mame?  Im running win7 64bit

Yeah probably win7 uses a different registry path for the video settings, so it fails when trying to access the hardcoded one, we'll need to fix that, or at least deal with that error as for the case of non ati cards it wouldn't be needed to read the registry anyway.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2011, 08:02:35 pm »
So is it a hardware/bios 'lockout' with Nvidia cards that allows only 32 modes?
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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2011, 02:44:06 pm »
So is it a hardware/bios 'lockout' with Nvidia cards that allows only 32 modes?

It's actually a limitation of their drivers, which can only take up to 32 custom timings. You can define more than 32 custom modes indeed, but not the required custom timings for them.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 10:09:08 pm »
So is it a hardware/bios 'lockout' with Nvidia cards that allows only 32 modes?

It's actually a limitation of their drivers, which can only take up to 32 custom timings. You can define more than 32 custom modes indeed, but not the required custom timings for them.


So since the ATI drivers needed hacking too, why did you pick those?
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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 05:38:25 pm »
So since the ATI drivers needed hacking too, why did you pick those?

ATI drivers already support up to 60 custom video modes with their own custom timings without any hacking, compared to nVidia that has the 32 custom modes limit.

Anyway the most important advantage is that ATI allows dynamic modification of these custom timings on the fly, although this feature is undocumented afaik. That's how GroovyMAME can use recalculated modelines for each game.

Unfortunately nVdia drivers do not support this feature. I've done different tests these days using similar methods with registry modelines, but I'm afraid the new information is not used by the driver until the system is restarted.

However, semi-dynamic modelines will hopefully be possible for nVidia cards too in the near future, by using the Powerstrip API.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2011, 03:07:00 pm »
I recently acquired a MAME PC (configured with Soft15kHz, MALA and GuiMAME) with NVIDIA (AGP card) graphics but as I'm a very curious guy, I'd like to try GroovyMAME instead of the GuiMAME.  ;D Also, it's 0.126 and I want to run the PGM games added recently.

So, if I just set it up to be run from MALA, will the correct settings for each game be used immediately, or what else do I need to do?

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2011, 02:34:10 pm »
I recently acquired a MAME PC (configured with Soft15kHz, MALA and GuiMAME) with NVIDIA (AGP card) graphics but as I'm a very curious guy, I'd like to try GroovyMAME instead of the GuiMAME.  ;D Also, it's 0.126 and I want to run the PGM games added recently.

So, if I just set it up to be run from MALA, will the correct settings for each game be used immediately, or what else do I need to do?

Yeah, GroovyMAME should use the modes set by Soft15Khz out of the box. However, as you're using a nVidia card, GroovyMAME won't be able to recalculate each modeline so it will run with the predefined ones. It won't be as good as running it with an ATI card but can't be worse than using regular MAME. And of course you can force the -syncrefresh -soundsync options to have perfect scrolling/sound in all games.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2011, 03:26:20 pm »
Thanks a lot for the reply. I tried this modeline:

mame gamename -nochangeres -hwstrech

and got fullscreen in a game (Ketsui, PGM hardware @ 224x448 59.170000Hz) that's normally not fullscreen (perfect modeline not available) but it is blurry.  :hissy:  :laugh2: If I use your modeline generator and create the resolution needed I should be able to add it by running Soft15kHz?

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2011, 05:03:47 am »
Thanks a lot for the reply. I tried this modeline:

mame gamename -nochangeres -hwstrech

and got fullscreen in a game (Ketsui, PGM hardware @ 224x448 59.170000Hz) that's normally not fullscreen (perfect modeline not available) but it is blurry.  :hissy:  :laugh2: If I use your modeline generator and create the resolution needed I should be able to add it by running Soft15kHz?

It's blurry because it's stretched on an interlaced mode. Bear in mind you need 448 lines to render that game without artifacts, and that's not possible on a standard arcade monitor. What kind of monitor are you using? If it's a multisync monitor, you can use a 31Khz modeline for that game. VMMaker can calculte that resolution if your monitor supports it, then you can use Soft15Khz to add it.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2011, 01:01:35 pm »
It's blurry because it's stretched on an interlaced mode. Bear in mind you need 448 lines to render that game without artifacts, and that's not possible on a standard arcade monitor. What kind of monitor are you using? If it's a multisync monitor, you can use a 31Khz modeline for that game. VMMaker can calculte that resolution if your monitor supports it, then you can use Soft15Khz to add it.

Well, it's a 15kHz game and I've run the actual board just fine on my NANAO MS9 monitors (that's what I'm using now btw).

Quote from: MAWS
A flexible cartridge based platform some would say was designed to compete with SNK's NeoGeo and Capcom's CPS Hardware systems, despite its age it only uses a 68000 for the main processor and a Z80 to drive the sound, just like the two previously mentioned systems in that respect. Resolution is 448x224, 15 bit colour. Sound system is ICS WaveFront 2115 Wavetable midi synthesizer, used in some actual sound cards (Turtle Beach).

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2011, 02:04:08 pm »
Well, it's a 15kHz game and I've run the actual board just fine on my NANAO MS9 monitors (that's what I'm using now btw).


Yes it's 15KHz but vertical. Is your monitor set as vertical?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2011, 07:30:05 pm »
Yes. It has a rotate mechanism, + I never play much else than vertical games.

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2011, 05:30:34 am »
Yes. It has a rotate mechanism, + I never play much else than vertical games.

Wow, that's cool! In that case you'll want to genarate the native resolution without rotation. Use this param:

-monitor_orientation rotate

This in theory will be the right settings for rotating monitors, so both horizontal and vertical games will be calculated as full screen.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2011, 12:29:02 pm »
Yes. It has a rotate mechanism, + I never play much else than vertical games.

Wow, that's cool! In that case you'll want to genarate the native resolution without rotation. Use this param:

-monitor_orientation rotate

This in theory will be the right settings for rotating monitors, so both horizontal and vertical games will be calculated as full screen.


For most games I've tried with GroovyMAME, just using the rotation built into MAME's GUI menu has worked fine. I'll try this though.

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2011, 12:40:19 pm »
For most games I've tried with GroovyMAME, just using the rotation built into MAME's GUI menu has worked fine. I'll try this though.

No, you actually need to use the command-line param otherwise the modeline won't be calculated properly in the first place. Similarly, you need to lauch games from command-line: if you launch them from the UI built-in MAME they won't get the right video modes in GroovyMAME.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2011, 07:43:50 pm »
I had a little experiement with the powerstrip option in mame.ini on a pc with a nVidia card installed

At the moment it looks like it has generated the correct vsync for rtype, mortal kombat which have lower refresh rates
Fantastic  :cheers:

Unfortunately its not quite right for all games for me, some of the selected refresh rates cause the screen to flicker on and off.
Other times quitting mame can leave my front end flickering.

Using 1024x768 with some hlsl effects applied combined with the correct frame rate really does give an authentic look, very impressed!

Really looking forward to any progress on PowerStrip support, I didn't realise it was this advanced already

Thanks for all your great work guys

« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 07:23:25 am by jimmy2x2x »

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2011, 08:30:53 am »
Yes, at the moment the Powerstrip option only works with the current desktop resolution, that's why I recommended it for LCDs only. Of course if you use a PC CRT without resolution switching it's much the same thing. Actually it mostly ignores your 'monitor_specs' settings but for the line and frequency limiters. What it does is to grab the current videoport values and tweak the dotclock and the total number of lines in order to adjust the vertical frequency, so it's a rather hacky method.

The idea is to fully integrate the Powerstrip thing into the modeline engine. There's a weakness to this method and it's the dotclock accuracy and stability, which is very variable depending on the chipset you use according to my experience, and always inferior of what you get with ATI driver based modelines.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2011, 11:15:41 am »
I like this disscusing... you give me a good ideea... thanks

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2011, 07:34:22 am »
I know that Powerstrip support is preliminary, but I am finding it very odd atm.

Sometimes groovymame will work fine and select the requested refresh rate, othertimes it will always be 60hz for the same game.

This varies on each boot up, I cant seem to find anything that infulences it - it just seems random.

My desktop resolution is 1024x768 and I dont change any settings for this resolution within powerstrip.

I do change a couple of other resolutions (720x576 and 1280x1024) for 50hz commodore 64 / amiga emulation.

The commodore resolutions always work and sync fine at 50hz.

This is all running on windows xp x64 with a lot of services disabled, are there any services that should be enabled or any other suggestions?

EDIT: I noticed something strange to, if I change my monitor to vga (currently lcd) the game has large borders on all side but seems to sync at the correct rate

my mame.ini (no other .ini files are used) http://pastebin.com/TTBj1b2w


Thanks!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 07:41:49 am by jimmy2x2x »

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2011, 01:03:45 pm »
Yes, I highly doubt that the Powerstrip method will ever compare to what we get with ATI drivers, where we're used to an almost deterministic behaviour. I'm not even sure if it's a good idea to fully implement this because it will encourage people getting the wrong video cards.

The fuzziness lies in the method used by Powerstrip for programming the videocard dotclock. We can only request PS for a given dotclock, and PS will produce the closest possible stable dotclock.

Part of the problem is that the dotclock granularity can show huge variations along the videocard's operational range, so you can have a lot of options for low resolutions but just a few of them for higher resolutions. We can't know this at first hand, so we have a problem if we wan't to create new modelines in real time.

This varies a lot depending on the video card, so while I can get excellent results with this laptop for any desired resolution and refresh (GeForce Go 7400), things are not perfect in other systems I've tested.

Second (and worse), is the fact that results are not always consistent for some cards and situations. So I've seen that some modelines work today but not tomorrow, and my guess is that it has to do with dotclock stability.

As for your case, you may get better results lowering yout desktop resolution to something closer to the ones that the vga monitor setting is picking. Probably around that resolutions PS finds more stable dotclocks to choose from.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2011, 02:24:49 pm »
Thanks for the explanation, I was getting frustrated by the randomness being able to sync.

I think I will buy a 4890 for this PC and enjoy the ATI experience ;)

Before I do that I just wanted to make sure that I will be able to use Emu Driver resolutions PLUS these:

640x480 60hz
720x576 50hz
1024x768 75hz
1280x1024 50hz

Will I be able to ensure that I have those resolutions at those refresh rates somehow?

Thanks

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2011, 04:43:31 pm »
Yes, you'll have those resolutions, either the native versions already built in the driver or custom versions of them calculated to your specs.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Groovy mame and Nvidia cards
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2011, 04:59:33 pm »
I thought so, just wanted to check before I buy

Thanks  :cheers: