Wood screws in MDF...are pilot holes needed?

[Billkwando]

I'm adding a 2nd speaker to my Dynamo cab (thanks Nephasth!) so I can get stereo sound from my Neo Geo board, and there are no screw holes for a 2nd speaker install:





As you can see, it's a very tight space in there (had to buy a stubby screwdriver in preparation) so there's obviously no room for a drill. What would be the best way to get the screws in...just get to twistin'?

I didn't wanna split anything.

Insights?

I also have to say I'm deathly afraid of dropping something back there and hitting my yoke. LOL

[RandyT]

MDF doesn't usually split in that direction when there are no pilots, unless close to an edge, but it will "pile up" around the screw.  Probably not a big deal when mounting a speaker, but it's a pain when you need to mount something flush and there's nowhere for the material to go.  

Your problem will likely be getting the screw started.  If you have a spring loaded center punch, and you can get it in there, it will break through the hard surface of the MDF and make starting the screw easier.  Still won't be fun, I'm afraid.

[Billkwando]

MDF doesn't usually split in that direction when there are no pilots, unless close to an edge, but it will "pile up" around the screw.  Probably not a big deal when mounting a speaker, but it's a pain when you need to mount something flush and there's nowhere for the material to go.  

Your problem will likely be getting the screw started.  If you have a spring loaded center punch, and you can get it in there, it will break through the hard surface of the MDF and make starting the screw easier.  Still won't be fun, I'm afraid

I don't have a punchy thing, alas.

I know it's gonna be hard. I'm not even gonna try to drive the screw with the speaker attached. I'll use the grill to guide where I put the screws, then back them out and put the speaker in. To wire the other speaker, I had to use one of those drill goosenecks to unscrew the existing screws.

The stubby I got is a Mintcraft racheting one, so hopefully that helps:


It's magnetic too, which makes all the difference for this application.

[Xiaou2]

If I were you, Id just probably just glue it in place.

 Epoxy putty or similar.

 OR - you could pre-drill it from the other side, then patch and paint the holes.

[LeedsFan]

Another option (other than glueing) is to use car number plate stickers to hold it in place. I go to Motosave and they sell these stickers that are about 3-4 inches long (25p each). They are double sided sticky for putting number plates on cars. They are very strong, but not so strong you couldn't get them off later if you needed to. I've bought lots of these and cut them to size for different things.

Or you could use double sided rubber strip if you can find it. Maybe even velcro? Just make sure to wipe out the area clean first (use a rag with some solvent) to get rid of any fine MDF dust still lingering in there.

Normally I look upon this sort of suggestion as a bit of a bodge job. But in this situation you really are gonna have some trouble getting a screwdriver in there. Path of least resistance, and all that. Nobody's gonna see it anyway.

[Necro]

OR - you could pre-drill it from the other side, then patch and paint the holes.

Agree with this.  Just drill from below, recess the bolt heads and then cover or paint the bolts black.  Will be much easier getting something in there to hold a nut then to get the torque needed to screw into MDF.  A ratchet should fit right in there.

[bkenobi]

There are right-angle adapters for drills that would help in this case.  They are not cheap as they are intended more for drilling holes in stud walls and what not.  However, if that would fit in the space, it could save you a lot of grief in fixing other damage.

Right angle drills:
http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=552806

Right angle drill adapter example:
http://tinyurl.com/3avpzap

[Billkwando]

Agree with this.  Just drill from below, recess the bolt heads and then cover or paint the bolts black.  Will be much easier getting something in there to hold a nut then to get the torque needed to screw into MDF.  A ratchet should fit right in there.

Yeah that's a great idea, but I'm too anal to do it. You see, the "ceiling" of this cab, where the speakers are, is the ONLY place with the original finish...and hasn't been molested or spray painted by an op. It's all nice and shiny and lustrous. No matter how good of a patching job I did (which wouldn't be a very good job, I might add) I would still notice....and it would bug me. Asymmetrical and stereo speakers don't mix for me hahahahahaha.

I also like the L drill idea, but I've already spent way too much money on this thing for that.

The adhesive options would give me nightmares, cos I'd always be thinking the speaker's gonna come loose at any moment and crash into the yoke. I thought of maybe tacking some thin nails in there to hold it up. Unless the cab got turned upside down, the speaker would prolly stay secure.....but now that I think of it there could be bad vibrations if it's loose like that.

Decisions decisions.....

[Necro]

Construction adhesive will NOT come off.  Even if you want it to later if a speaker dies - it will rip apart the MDF. 

Also, here's another option.

Make a frame for each speaker, attach the speaker to the square frame.  Have a wood 'bar' going across each of the frames with L's down on the sides.  Bolt the sides into the wood holding up the 'ceiling' of the cab that you don't want to drill through - since you can get a drill in there horizontally it looks like. 

like this:

|<                 >|
|--|0|-----|0|-|
|<                 >|

|0|'s are speakers, drill/screw at >'s.

[Billkwando]

On top of my other problems, I accidentally got brass screws. Those should go great with my magnetic screwdriver.

BTW that frame thing is a pretty good idea. Heck, I could prolly just make a frame that attaches to the existing speaker.......made of coat hangers.

My lunchtime for the past week or 2 has been spent in the hardware store......grrrrr.

[CapriRS302]

I do this type of crud all the time!!!  Easiest method, just get some 3m double sided tape.

Slightly harder, make a few marks where you need to go, then hammer in a small nail to make a starter hole, then slowly push down on your nubby and turn until it starts.  You can do this without the nail hole, just be patient.

[Billkwando]

Slightly harder, make a few marks where you need to go, then hammer in a small nail to make a starter hole, then slowly push down on your nubby and turn until it starts.  You can do this without the nail hole, just be patient.

Yeah, I was thinking about trying to make a pilot hole with a small nail. Good thinking.

[Nephasth]

You can get one of these man powered drills, much cheaper than an angle drill and will easily drill pilot holes in MDF. With the drill bit it's about 5 1/2" long, if you need it shorter you could always cut the back end off the drill bit. Also if you have small sharp drill bits laying around, you could just wrap duct tape around the back of the bit and use it the same way (gotta love almost free!).

[Blanka]

[Billkwando]

(gotta love almost free!).

Kinda like my speaker!  

I have to admit though, I don't know what I'm supposed to be seeing in that pic, unless it's just a neatly drilled hole.

Edit: Oh balls, I see it now. It even has a circle around it. It's like one of those paintings with the dots. LOL

I thought that was an xacto knife hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Google's being super helpful, as usual:

[bkenobi]

For the amount of time you will spend trying to get something to work, you could just spend the $20 and get a really cheap and basic right angle drill adapter.  The one Blanka posted is similar to the cheap ones.  Check Harbor Freight to see some options:

Adapter for $19.99 regular price:
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth-inch-angle-drill-attachment-with-keyless-chuck-92188.html

Whole freaking right angle drill with battery and charger for $19.99 sale price:
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-volt-3-8-eighth-inch-cordless-right-angle-drill-67043.html

If it were me, I'd get the drill and be done with it since that "man drill" is going to take a lot of time and driving to locate.  I'm cheap, so I recognize your reluctance to buy another tool after spending a small fortune already.  BUT, if you screw up that perfect finish, you'll be kicking yourself later!  

EDIT: it appears the battery may not be included with that drill.  If not, just get the adapter IMO.

[DataWest]

Just do glue it. 

[Necro]

Even with the angle adapter, will you be able to get enough pressure onto the screw in that space to actually push it in?

[Billkwando]

Even with the angle adapter, will you be able to get enough pressure onto the screw in that space to actually push it in?

I can't believe Dynamo were so lazy that they didn't make pilot holes. I guess I'm lucky that they routed a 2nd set of speaker slots at all......otherwise, I'd be making a "drill grill".

[RandyT]

Adapter for $19.99 regular price:
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth-inch-angle-drill-attachment-with-keyless-chuck-92188.html

I have exactly this tool, and it works well.  It's saved my keister more than a few times on different projects.  Just get one, and you can bask in the warmth of knowing that a situation like this won't be a problem again in the future. 

[Billkwando]

Adapter for $19.99 regular price:
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth-inch-angle-drill-attachment-with-keyless-chuck-92188.html

I have exactly this tool, and it works well.  It's saved my keister more than a few times on different projects.  Just get one, and you can bask in the warmth of knowing that a situation like this won't be a problem again in the future.  

I'll admit it. I'm a bit afraid of this tool because I don't know how well I can control it in that tight space. I guess I could just drill really really slow.

[Nephasth]

How much room do you have to work with? That drill adapter is 4 1/8" without a bit in it.

[Billkwando]

How much room do you have to work with? That drill adapter is 4 1/8" without a bit in it.

I think maybe 8 (not home right now).

[Nephasth]

8" should be plenty. You should have the speaker tomorrow or Friday.

[Billkwando]

8" should be plenty. You should have the speaker tomorrow or Friday.

Oh awesome! Sneaky shipping is the best kind. No pacing and staring at tracking numbers.

I guess I better take these brass screws back and get some magnetic ones!

[Beley]

(gotta love almost free!).

Kinda like my speaker!  

I have to admit though, I don't know what I'm supposed to be seeing in that pic, unless it's just a neatly drilled hole.

Edit: Oh balls, I see it now. It even has a circle around it. It's like one of those paintings with the dots. LOL

I thought that was an xacto knife hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Google's being super helpful, as usual:........

I think Nephasth was trying to show something like this


I cant remember what the real name for it is...

[Nephasth]

I was showing (poorly) my pin vise drill. Never seen one of those, that's awesome. You have to manually turn the pin vise to drill, that looks like it has a mechanism to where you would only have to press down to spin the bit. I'm going to have to get one of those.

[Billkwando]

First off Nephasth, thanks again for the speaker. You gotz feedback.

Now, as I like to laugh at myself, gather 'round and hear my tale...

I didn't end up buying any new tools. Instead I decided to improvise.



What you're seeing there is a screw, tied to my finger with a piece of dental floss. This was to prevent any possibility of dropping it below, or hitting the monitor.

So I decided to try a "self tapping screw", which is the one on the string, using only the grille as a guide for my hole(s). Hmmm. It's like a screw with a drill bit on the end.

Sure, it made a hole easily enough, but the threads are so far up, I'd have been twisting for like 5 minutes trying to get it to thread. So I ended up making a pilot hole with the tappy screw, and then screwing the rest of the way with a regular screw. I then pulled the screw out and put a tappy screw back in (the one without the string), so I could repeat the process for the other hole. Ugh.

I think I'm just gonna try it with one screw for now, and if there's no weird vibrations, just stick with it.

Edit: It's working great! Now when somebody falls on the left side of the screen, you hear it from the left speaker, and vice versa.

[Nephasth]

Good to hear you got it mounted without any problems and also that the speaker made it to you safely.

[Billkwando]

Good to hear you got it mounted without any problems and also that the speaker made it to you safely.

Yup! You da man!