Primer/undercoat/top coat questions

[JackLeather]

Hello. i finally own a cab, now the questions...

I have acquired a home built arcade cabinet that needs a make-over.

the cab is made from chipboard/particleboard. looks like it was originally black but the painter didn't prime it so the black got painted over with lime green gloss paint. 

I want to paint the entire cab black. then fit chrome t-moulding (un-original i know) which i have purchased already.

I need help with this re-painting process. i know that i need to sand, but starting with which grade exactly? how much of the lime green gloss should i remove by sanding. when do i change down a grade of sand paper.

next the primer. what should i use? i am in the UK so if you can direct me to the something specific at b&q/homebase i would be grateful.

how should i apply the primer? small roller? brush? how many coats? how long to dry between each? which grade sand paper between primer coats? do i need more that one primer coat? how much (volume) of paint do i need for an average cab?

Next the black coat.

Can i use gloss? or should i go matt? i read that chipboard doesn't like water based paints and that acrylic based is best?? how many coats? 2 enough? sanding?

i have looked at using spray paint but one big can costs £6-£8. i could end up spending a big wedge this way. would i get far superior results?

Questions, questions!!

this is my first cab and i have dreamt about owning one for 30 years - i want to get this right by doing all the research i can upfront.

 

[The Lumberjackass]

you have a few options here, but it depends on the veneer with which the particle board is attached to.
is it a vinyl veneer ? or is it just normal un-veneered chipboard ?

if it was me and i had the choice, i wouldnt sand anything at all. what i'd do is test the inside of the cab with paint stripper to see if it eats the veneer away first.
if it doesnt, i'd carry on and strip that paint off on the outside. i'd be able to start afresh then with new paint.

as for what type of paint, go with an oil based one. and i mean that with regards to the primer and top coat. oil based is a good durable type and
very sticky. stay away from water. and use a roller, preferrably a mohair roller. i use mohair rollers with amazing results. b+q stock them.

if your going to b+q, make sure you ask the paint guy ( dont just ask an ordinary member of staff, they wont know ) for oil based undercoat/primer and
a semi gloss top coat. well, if you want a balls to the wall shine from your cab, gloss is what you want, but i think gloss looks tacky. semi looks much cleaner to my eye. but its your choice.

as for applying the paint, mask the edges with blue tape first, and apply 2 coats of primer. wait 16 hours between coats. after the 2 coats, sand the high spots / nibs / particles of dust with 180 grit paper. apply another coat of primer.
now add the top coat. put it on nice and thin. wait for it to dry. if it needs to be sanded in spots where dust or hairs have stuck to it, sand it back a little bit.
but in total, add 4 thin layers of top coat to blend the colour in nicely. finally, never apply a heavy coat of paint. thin layers is the way to go.

as for the paint stripping, its an option, but if your not comfortable in using it, sand the cab back.
and always take off the masking tape after each coat. you dont want to pull any paint away a few days after you let it dry.
i'll always tell people what i'd do in their situation, but if your not comfortable, stick to what you think is best.

[elkameleon]

Awesome advice! Now I got a question about painting. My cab is laminated or something, not sure, it used to be a virtua fighter cab, so its got that hard blue-ish white surface to it, can I just clean that surface up and paint right over it? or should I primer it first?

[The Lumberjackass]

that would be a lamination alright.
if you want to paint it, then yes, clean it up the best you can. if needs be, sand the surface a little to provide a key for any paint you will use.

if i had your cab, here is what i'd do :
1) remove any stickers or vinyl from the cab.
2) lightly sand the laminate with 180 grit ( 180 grit UK spec , USA have different grits, be aware of that ).
3) wash the surface with window cleaner.
4) lightly wash the surface using a bit of turpentine on a rag. let it dry off for an hour.
5) apply a good oil based primer ( dulux or better ).
6) after applying 3 coats of primer and sanding back any high spots, lay down 1 thin coat of top finish 8 hrs after last coat of primer.
7) apply 3 further coats of top finish ( allow 16 hours drying time between coats ), and making sure that each layer is very thin. and i mean thin, very light coats.
Optional : if your coats are light, and the colour blending is an issue, apply further light coats until the colour is even.

if you need to sand back between layers, do so.
but the main ingredient you want in your type of paint job is the adhesion of the primer. its vital and the most important. so the prep work of the surface must be pristine for best results. if you get flaking paint or poor adhesion, then the surface of the laminate isnt suitable for painting. but follow my advice to the T and you should be on to a winner. just make sure you remove all and any dust from the surface before priming. thats why i listed you should wash the surface down twice in different liquids.

[JackLeather]

that would be a lamination alright.
if you want to paint it, then yes, clean it up the best you can. if needs be, sand the surface a little to provide a key for any paint you will use.

if i had your cab, here is what i'd do :
1) remove any stickers or vinyl from the cab.
2) lightly sand the laminate with 180 grit ( 180 grit UK spec , USA have different grits, be aware of that ).
3) wash the surface with window cleaner.
4) lightly wash the surface using a bit of turpentine on a rag. let it dry off for an hour.
5) apply a good oil based primer ( dulux or better ).
6) after applying 3 coats of primer and sanding back any high spots, lay down 1 thin coat of top finish 8 hrs after last coat of primer.
7) apply 3 further coats of top finish ( allow 16 hours drying time between coats ), and making sure that each layer is very thin. and i mean thin, very light coats.
Optional : if your coats are light, and the colour blending is an issue, apply further light coats until the colour is even.

if you need to sand back between layers, do so.
but the main ingredient you want in your type of paint job is the adhesion of the primer. its vital and the most important. so the prep work of the surface must be pristine for best results. if you get flaking paint or poor adhesion, then the surface of the laminate isnt suitable for painting. but follow my advice to the T and you should be on to a winner. just make sure you remove all and any dust from the surface before priming. thats why i listed you should wash the surface down twice in different liquids.

Thanks for the help! i have already painted the coin door using dulux non drip black gloss as a test using primer/sand/primer/sand/top coat/sand etc. i like the sound of semi gloss. once the normal gloss has cured can i just sand it back slightly and give it a coat of semi or do i need to strip right back and start again?

[Grasshopper]

next the primer. what should i use? i am in the UK so if you can direct me to the something specific at b&q/homebase i would be grateful.

Personally I would avoid the overpriced big chain stores and find a local paint specialist. For my control panel I made the mistake of using a black gloss paint called Plasticoat from B&Q and it's bloody awful. Although it's described as enamel, it never dries. Even years later I can still mark it with a fingernail.

[The Lumberjackass]

As for the sanding back of gloss to re-coat it, yes you can do this.
just sand it back a little to dull it and then clean it of any dust. then hit it with a light coat of primer first. very light.
let that dry and then hit it with semi gloss.
but personally, for a coin door, my method would be to spray paint it.
anything that is made of metal needs spray paint in my eyes. but thats just me, im really particular about stuff lol

[jennifer]

     When I do a cab, First I look into lamanate, [you gotta figger the thickness of the wood/particle and the laminate to make sure the Tmoulding will
cover everything] If this isnt A option, Stripper, putty, epoxy sealer, and a good grade of solvent based urathane.
      These games were painted with lacquer based products and inks [I believe] So to even attempt close you gotta spray.

[JackLeather]

As for the sanding back of gloss to re-coat it, yes you can do this.
just sand it back a little to dull it and then clean it of any dust. then hit it with a light coat of primer first. very light.
let that dry and then hit it with semi gloss.
but personally, for a coin door, my method would be to spray paint it.
anything that is made of metal needs spray paint in my eyes. but thats just me, im really particular about stuff lol

sorry i should be clear! the coin door is fitted into the centre of another chipboard door (there are shelves behind it). The chipboard isn't laminated.

I will post some pics soon.

[JackLeather]

I have done another test piece of chipboard with spray paint from a can(s). this time with 2 coats of grey primer, sand between coats and after. i have also applied the first 'thin' coat of black gloss spray.

i left the black gloss spray to dry for 3 days. i have now used wet and dry sand paper to try and get a nice smooth finish before moving on to the next black coat. however, i can now see areas of primer and in some small areas (edges) i have cut almost through to the wood.

how should i proceed? should i just coat again with black or prime again?

[jennifer]

       I"d prime that again, the primer gives a sealer coat [otherwise you"ll get rings in your paint] put it on fairly heavy, sand it lightly, just enough
to get the pimples off. 

[JackLeather]

       I"d prime that again, the primer gives a sealer coat [otherwise you"ll get rings in your paint] put it on fairly heavy, sand it lightly, just enough
to get the pimples off. 

Thanks! should i sand back more of the black or just prime over it?

[jennifer]

 
        As long as the whole thing has been sanded [no glossy spots] you can go over the paint. The extra mils won"t hurt a thing.
  You only need to let it dry overnight before sanding. Since your using bomber cans may I say that engine enamals will give a nice
  durable finish.

[JackLeather]

        As long as the whole thing has been sanded [no glossy spots] you can go over the paint. The extra mils won"t hurt a thing.
  You only need to let it dry overnight before sanding. Since your using bomber cans may I say that engine enamals will give a nice
  durable finish.

like this? http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_724657_langId_-1_categoryId_165495


do i need enamel primer?

[jennifer]

      You wouldnt need it, you can spray enamal over lacquer, but the enamal primer is a better product.

[JackLeather]

      You wouldnt need it, you can spray enamal over lacquer, but the enamal primer is a better product.

ok. i have re-primed, lightly sanded - not cutting through. i have now done a top coat of black enamel. looks to be quite pitted. is this normal?

how long between coats and how should i sand?

[jennifer]

Are those pits or is that a wrinkle finish "orange peel"?   Let it dry overnight, lightly sand and repaint with multiple light, wet coats.

[JackLeather]

Are those pits or is that a wrinkle finish "orange peel"?   Let it dry overnight, lightly sand and repaint with multiple light, wet coats.

Thanks again!

I have now completed spraying my control panel with black enamel. it looks great.

I have read that enamel can flake. will it? do i need to use a clear lacquer? shouldnt the black be hard enough on its own?

[jennifer]

      As long as you sanded the gloss off before painting, flaking or peeling shouldn"t be a problem..... no need for clear, a good [non silicon]
paint sealer will give it a nice protective luster.

[JackLeather]

the final (thin) coat of enamel has now had time to dry. however its dried matt. if i rub the surface i get black dust on my fingers.

why is this? should i just polish it? do i need another thicker coat?