Desperately confused with soft15khz and QuickRes!

[coliveira]

Hello all

I am in desperate need of help here.  I'm so spun on this it's not even funny.  Anyway, I have mame running how I want it and I'm ready to put it in my arcade cabinet (Wells Gardner K7000 series).  I have a jpac and I'm ready to go.  I'm running xp home edition with service pack 3.  I have an ATI Radeon 7500 video card.  Per my driver screen, I have the Mobility Radeon 7500 driver (not sure it's the right one) and it's version 6.14.10.6360.  When I try to run QuickRes it only allows selections in 32 bits (not hz like it used to).  I'm not sure what I did to change it, but I haven't had any luck changing it back.  Basically, is 640x480, 32Bit the same as 640x480, 60hz?  When I change it to 640x480, 32Bit and enable soft15khz at the 15khz level it just shows crazy graphics on restart .  That's on my computer monitor and arcade monitor (it's actually readable on both while it's loading, just not when it loads).  It looks like mamewah tries to run, but it doesn't quite work out.  Also, when I check my resolution on restart it says it's 640x480 with 4 bit.  This is all greek to me and I'd love some input on this. 

Thanks in advance for your help and consideration.
Chris

[coliveira]

Found this in the mamewah log:

Mode 800 x 600 @ 60hz, 4 bit colour not available.

I also found one earlier that said that:

Mode 640 x 480 @ 60 hz, 16 bit colour not available.



Not really sure what this means, but I'm assuming that perhaps I'm having trouble figuring out which vga output to use in the back of my computer as I've been switching back and forth.  It looks like the one I've been using recently doesn't really allow a switch abck to 640 x480 (at least so that it holds).  Also,  even though Quick Res isn't listing the hz option, it does look like it's at 60 hz.

Help please!!!

Thanks

[coliveira]

Switched vga outputs and tried it a few times.  I have the mamewah log saying that 640 x 480 @60 hz, 4 bit  colour is not available.  However, when I undo soft15khz and run mamewah it's running 640x480@60hz, 16 bit colour just fine.  Isn't that the setting I'm looking for?  Would this work in my cabinet or am I just confused?  Do I already have soft res running and I'm just not aware of it?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks
Chris

[coliveira]

Well, I could hope anyway.  I could see the computer boot up in the split screen, but once it got to the part where mamewah would  take over (shortcut on the start menu) it goes black and red...

Suggestions appreciated!
Thanks
Chris

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Sounds like you've got several things going on here. The first step is going to be checking on the video driver. I'm not sure you're running the right one; which might explain the lack of options. Are they options you're given 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768? If so that sounds like it's reverting to the basic VGA driver because the one you've got install isn't working right.


What we can start with is looking at the specific video card you have installed. Go into your system manager and pull the VEN and DEV codes for the video card. Here's how to do it:
http://www.troublefixers.com/identify-unknown-devices-in-device-manager-using-vendor-id-device-id/

You don't need to do anything after step 4. That's the information I'm interested in.

[coliveira]

Thanks for the response!

 Here's the options I have under QuickRes.  All of them are followed by:  , 32 bit.  For example, 320 x 200, 32 Bit etc.  The options are:  320 x 200, 320 x 240, 400 x 300, 572 x 384, 640 x 400, 640 x 480, 800 x 600, 1024 x 768, 1152 x 864, 1280 x 768, and 1280 x 1024.

The PCI\VEN number is:  PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4C57&SUBSY_00861002&REV_00\4&3B1CAF2B&0&28F0

On a side note, somehow trying to run it caused my mame.ini file to change so that when I go to it everything pretty much says "auto" instead of the prior paths, etc.  The daphne.ini seems fine.

Thanks again.
Chris

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Neither QuickRes nor Soft15kHz can change your mame.ini

Looks like you're probably running the correct drivers for that card; however from what I'm reading, the various "Mobility" Radeons had vendor specific drivers. Is this actually a laptop?

To your original question, bit depth and refresh rate (hz) have nothing to do with one another. It's like asking if the color of a fruit has anything to do with how much it weighs-- they are independent of each other.

I do not recall ever seeing QuickRes list the refresh rate in the listing, only the bitdepth. Maybe someone else can correct me on this. I see bit depth on my setup.

What I would recommend doing is cutting the computer monitor out of the equation all together. Install a program such as UltraVNC (www.uvnc.com) that will allow you to control the computer over a network from another machine. This way you can change display settings even when the arcade monitor is displaying improperly.

I would do the following in this order:
Uninstall Soft15khz.
reboot.
Install UltraVNC, set up a simple password (like 'a'), and verify that you can connect to it from another machine and control it properly.
reboot.
Verify that UltraVNC has started up properly on its own after a reboot and that you can connect to it and control it properly.
Install Soft15khz, selecting only the 15kHz option.
Shut down the computer fully.
Unhook VGA monitor
Hook up Arcade monitor
Power the machine on.
When it gets into windows, connect via VNC and see what QuickRes is showing as available options.

Hopefully you can select 640x480 and have a proper display on the screen.

Once you've got it working that far, THEN we can see about getting Mame working properly.

[coliveira]

Thanks so much for your response.

It's not a laptop, I just needed a video card that sounded like it would be compatible with soft15khz and had a pci slot (my mobo is that old).  This is what popped up.  I had no idea it was for laptops.

I appreciate all of your help and will give your suggestion a shot.  I was actually wondering if using a computer monitor might be complicating the issue now, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like with soft15khz so I wasn't sure.

One question I did have is whether it matters which vga output I use?  It seems like they can be set up independently of each other so I wasn't sure if one was preferred over the other.

Thanks again
Chris

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

You cannot display a 15kHz image on a standard PC monitor.

When you say "Which VGA output", what are the options you are asking about? Does your card have two vga outputs? one vga, one dvi?

In some cases Windows will default to one or the other when the monitor doesn't send EDID data over the vga cable (arcade monitors do not send this information). If you've picked the wrong one then you'll end up with a blank screen on boot. The fix is just to move to the other port.

[coliveira]

I do have two vga ports (which I think is a bit weird but whatever).  Both ports seem to hold different monitor setup information so I'm not sure what that's about and both ports seem capable of running two monitors.  I'm going to give your suggestions a shot and see what I come up with.

By the way, I'm assuming that by uninstalling soft15khz you're talking about the button that pops up when you run the program?  I can't find it under add/delete programs.  I'll let you know the results.

Thanks again for all of your help.  I owe you one!

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Most video cards have two outputs now a days, though they usually combine one DVI and one VGA.

I'm guessing your card looks something like this:


When I say uninstall Soft15Khz, I am in deed talking about reverting the registry changes. You can either use the registry back up that it creates, or you can also re-install the drivers for the videocard. Doing the latter guarantees that none of the changes will remain, but the first option is the easiest and should also put everything back the way it was. Reinstalling drivers is more of a "nuke it from orbit" type option.

You should be able to set up each video port independently of one another, but for this purpose I'd just install Soft15khz on both of them (should be in the select list in the program).

[coliveira]

That is what the card looks like.  I think I'm going to reinstall the drivers.  I'm not sure what I've done to this computer over time and it just seems like it'd give me the best chance.

Interestingly enough (to me at least), I'd gotten mame working again through mamewah.  Of course I tried to go straight back to the arcade monitor (because I'm not too bright) and everything happened the same way.  Doesn't seem like soft15khz is really taking to my computer too well and something about the process is making my mame.ini revert everything back to 'auto' and the main config ini (or whatever it's called) is removing options from exiting the program...

Do I need to do anything with the Install User button on soft15khz?  Also, when I install 15hz on soft15khz it says that it's installed okay...  Just my luck!

Anyway, I'm going to take a break from this for a couple of days for my daughter's b-day preparation (and because I've spent my entire vacation on this) and get back to it in a couple of days.  I'll let you know what happens.  PLEASE check back in a couple of days for an update.

Thanks again for all of your help.
Chris

[coliveira]

A couple of quick questions.

1.  I don't think I'm going to be able to get my arcade monitor close enough to my network cables to use your suggestions.  Is it possible to view the computer in question without having the computer hooked up to the arcade monitor?  Not sure if I can do it without the computer hooked up to any monitor is what I think I'm trying to ask.  Would I 'see' the computer doing the same thing whether or not it was actually connected to a monitor?

2.  I came across this at a soft15khz website (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?p=59291#post59291): 

ATI Catalyst
It should work with any Radeon based adapter. However you should NOT use the newest catalyst for older cards.

What is a catalyst and is my card old enough that I shouldn't be using a newer catalyst?  How would I get an older one?

Thanks
Chris

[Calamity]

I do not recall ever seeing QuickRes list the refresh rate in the listing, only the bitdepth. Maybe someone else can correct me on this. I see bit depth on my setup.

Maybe coliveira has somehow used or seen before the QuickRes version I patched for listing refresh rate instead of bitdeph, that comes with my hacked drivers (only with 6.5): http://postback.geedorah.com/foros/viewtopic.php?id=1424

coliveira, Catalyst is the name of ATI generic drivers package. Give a try to the version you can download from the link above, named CRT_Emudriver (the one based on Catalyst 6.5). It should allow 15Khz output with your card just after installing and rebooting.

[coliveira]

Ha ha.  I'm so spun now I could've seen it anywhere!  After those posts I've come across some screen shots on the net (not sure where) that listed the hz.  To be honest, I'm not even sure they were from quickres shots, but they looked just like it.  I'm assuming I had come across those at one point and created a memory that it was my own desktop!  This has been quite an undertaking for me.  I thought the hard part was over once I had mamewah tied in with mame and daphne.  No such luck!

I will try your link and PRAY that it works.  I'm becoming so defeated by this that I'm considering pulling out a perfectly good Wells Gardner monitor and putting in the crappy monitor that came with my Dell Dimension 2400 however many years ago.  It probably wouldn't matter anyway because I probably couldn't get the joysticks and buttons on the cab working with my computer anyway!

A sincere thanks for all the input from this community (cotmm68030, FatTrucker, and Calamity) in particular and a few others on some of my other posts.  I would've thrown the towel in on this long ago without your direction.

[coliveira]

I was curious to know a bit more regarding the Catalyst.  I tried to install the thing but I had trouble.  I opened the folder that it created and opened the driver folder (not sure if that was the correct one as there were a couple of other programs in the file).  When I tried installing it a red ATI screen appeared.  I clicked that I agreed to the terms, etc. but then a error message appeared.  It said "INF error.  Video driver not found".  The next window that appeared said "Setup was unable to complete the installation.  Try to setup you display adapter with a standard VGA driver before running setup."  Can you help with this as I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do next.

Also, I tried to uninstall my driver so that I could reinstall it, but everytime I do it automatically installs when I reboot the computer.  Am I missing something?  I'm really beginning to suspect that the troubles I'm having are heavily centered around my video card drivers/catalysts...

Finally, does anyone know if I'll get use out of running UltraVNC if my computer is not hooked up to the arcade monitor.  Again, this is nearly physically impossible!

Thanks
Chris

[Calamity]

That inf error message appears when your card is not listed in the driver's list of supported cards, probably the Catalyst version you're trying is too new. Did you try the one link I posted? That's the correct version for your card, with 15Khz output enabled from startup. There's something else you may need in order to uninstall the existing driver, use Catalyst Uninstaller: http://downloads.guru3d.com/The-Catalyst-Uninstaller-download-1275.html (better do it while in safe mode).

[coliveira]

Thanks again for the reply.

Yes, I was trying the download from the site you suggested when I received that error.  I tried other versions also (because I wasn't really sure what was going on) and they didn't work either.  I've tried 6.5 from a couple of sources and 6.11 from a couple of sources as well, but have had the same pop up each time. 

I have figured out how to uninstall/reinstall my drivers for the card (Add/Remove programs as opposed to going straight to the driver and uninstalling), but that didn't help either.  I'm not sure if the card is for a laptop, but earlier in this thread cotmm68030 and I were discussing that the card appears as Radeon 7500 Mobile.  Could that be part of the problem here?  Does that use a different catalyst than the regular 7500 card?  Honestly, I'm not sure which card I have as it was bought off of ebay and I didn't know there was a difference.

A couple of other things I've noticed that seem a bit off:

1.  I still have the onboard Intel driver for the mobo installed.  It's set to be unusable (a red check appears on in when you're looking at drivers), but it is still there.  Should I get rid of that altogether?

2.  I have noticed that on my list of drivers there is one that still has a yellow exclamation point and I can't get rid of it.  I'm not at the computer now, but I think it's under the audio, video, etc. section and I think it's a VGA driver of some sort.  I can't seem to get that driver correct no matter what I do, but I didn't think much of it once I got the video card driver working because everything worked fine.  However, now I'm beginning to wonder if it's not a bigger deal after all.

Thanks again for all of your time on this.  It is truly appreciated.  I will await your answers and continue my feeble research.
Chris

[coliveira]

I found the following quote from an old post at http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3519/p/3347425/3525971.aspx

I know it doesn't directly relate to what I'm trying to do, but it seems like it's similar.  I'm using a dell desktop computer, but is it possible that it thinks it's a laptop (if that makes any sense)?  Anyway, here's what I came across.  Maybe I'll give it a shot when I get home from work.

Thanks

"Yes... you have to use the MobileMod program in order for it to work. If you try installing the non mobile version of ATI's Catalyst drivers, you will get an .inf error.  The mod program fixes that, so it will complete install. It is the only solution others and myself have found to keep up with current game graphics.  Down load Mobilemod from 3drage at this site:

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33717450

After downloading the latest Catalyst driver remember where it is downloaded. Then run the Mobilemod program.. it will modify the Catalyst file to work on mobile pc's. You might have to point to the directory when running the mod.   The link is for the newest version of MobileMod 4.0 i am still using ver. 3 .

The mod has helped me run Star Wars Galaxies with no video artifact errors, and has cleaned up BF1942. As windows continues to update Direct X (DX9.0b), its important to update our video drivers to reflect the changes.  So far its working good. You can always revert back to the old driver if it doesnt improve anything.  I have the same graphics chip you do. Good luck. Post if you need any help.

Also there are numerous posts on other boards discussing this issue and various other downloads you might want to try.

Rall"

[Calamity]

You're right, regular Catalyst do no support Mobility cards, you have to patch the drivers using this mod (better use this newer one):

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/modtool.php

So probably that's the issue. Have never tested that on my already patched drivers so don't know if it will break them, if you want to be sure use the regular Catalyst from ATI site.

[coliveira]

OK.  Well, at this point and with all of your help, I'm going with your suggestion (whatever that may be).  What would you do?  If I'm understanding this correctly I have two choices.  Either I can go with the link you just sent and then try to load the 6.5 catalyst that you linked earlier or I can try 'the regular catalyst from the ATI site'?  Which would be considered the 'regular catalyst'?  It seems like there's a lot of them and none of them seem to be set up for the mobility 7500...

I'm going with your suggestion on this as you've proven yourself the expert.  Again, please advise me what you would do and not necessarily the 'safe' thing as I'm not sure what you mean by 'break them'!

Thanks for everything.
Chris

[Calamity]

The issue with Mobility cards is that they are supposed to have their own drivers provided by the manufacturer of the laptop they are delivered with, so regular Catalyst (the one you download from ATI site) won't support them without some work. What you need to do is to get one Catalyst version that supports your 7500 chipset, being an old one you have to go to legacy 6.11 (=6.5) version or better try the ones I linked (6.5) and then use the Modtool to patch the driver before installing it, so after that it'll support your Mobility card. Be aware I've never tried this.

In case that didn't work there's a chance we can fix it manually, I'll need you to pass me some hardware identifiers you can get from your system, but better let's see if the Modtool does its job.

[coliveira]

Got it!  Thank you so much!  I really owe you both (Calamity and cotmm68030)!  If you're ever in the Modesto, CA area, hit me up and the beer's on me! 

Funny thing is, now my joy sticks and buttons aren't controlling the mamewah through the j-pac.  This thing will be the end of me!  Thanks again for all of your help.  I could've lived 10 lifetimes and never figured this out on my own...