720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

How about:
 Joust with Kinect control of arm flapping.   

What we need is a API for hooking up arbitrary programs to send input so we can have competitions of the best AI to play a given game like they did with:
http://julian.togelius.com/mariocompetition2009/  (Mario styled platformer with progressively difficult layout)
http://eis.ucsc.edu/StarCraftAICompetition

Of course the difficulty then becomes how does the AI understand whats coming OUT of mame. That would have to be solved with some sort of machine vision, unless you tied into the debugger and mapped various memory locations/values to what they meant in-game.. that would almost be an extension of the cheating system, just not things you'd want to force a static value into.

[(+_+)]

Arm flapping. That's just preposturous.   

[abaraba]

I wish to thank Derrick for his efforts in getting this, and possibly others like it, finally added.

My friend, if you care about accuracy, authenticity, about bloat, slowdowns and unnecessary hacks, as you do, then perhaps you should consider more carefully whether you are kissing the wrong buttocks there. -- And, why in the world you chose to ignore me when we are on the same side, it's two of us against everybody else, don't you see?

Please read this thread and note Derrick's is actually alone by himself in supporting those changes, he lost every argument we had, and even though his friends would like to support him, no one did, which is only natural since it takes just few minutes to actually test and confirm what I am talking about:

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=244132&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&vc=1


There is obvious bug that makes Derrick's code produce jittery movement, beside all the redundancy and unnecessary hacks, bloat and slowdowns, so again, if you want things to be done proper way I bid you reconsider coming back to fight on the same side again, by which I only mean to be completely neutral, objective and honest, just not silent and conditioned by mass-hypnotic ass kissing. I know you are brave, my friend, and now the time has come, so let's rock'n roll - in the name of truth, veracity and such!



Derrick,
- are you still not aware of this bug that makes movement in your code is jittery, or you just don't care?

[yotsuya]

Are the three days up already? Awwwwwwww....

[yotsuya]

Oh, and BTW, tested Derrick's code with my spinner, and didn't notice anything abnormal regarding speed, slowdowns, or jitter. It was certainly a lot easy with the spinner than with the joystick, that's for sure.

[Xiaou2]

abaraba,

1) Im not a programmer, so understanding the inner most workings on your level are not going to happen.  I can understand basic concepts of programming and logic however... so if people can provide a simplistic & logical explanation, I might be better equipped to make an informed judgment.

2) I dont kiss any butts. I merely thanked for the efforts.

3) If there is a problem with his code... just submit the fix / other version.  Im sure the project leader will chose to go with the best solutions.  Especially if there is a well explained reason sent along with it.

And, why in the world you chose to ignore me when we are on the same side, it's two of us against everybody else, don't you see?

4) No.  I may fight for better preservation... but this isnt a 2 person -vs- the world thing. A lot more people than 2 wish for better preservation efforts.  

 The spirit in preservation should be cooperation, not selfishness, not ego, not war.

 I pretty much only resort to personal attacks when Im attacked.  Or occasionally to push a button or two.  And I dont continue to keep bashing or attacking.  Eventually, my points get through, not because of what kinds of curses I throw... but because they are on the side of whats best and right.

 While for example, Im not a friend of Haze... it does not mean I hate him.  In fact, hes done some great work over the years.  'Might' be a decent guy in person too.  But his viewpoints are too out-of-touch, skewed, selfish,  ..and he is way too black/white.
Still, I wont keep bashing him every post he makes.   I might toss a few tomatoes at him to make him realize hes missing the boat...  but Im not going to throw rocks at him.

5) Neither Haze nor Derrick are in charge of the Driver Inclusion.  A good submission will be handled by the project leader.

6) Derrick is much more willing and flexible to adding things and helping out than Haze.
While you and him might not completely agree... you might be able to learn and share from each other ... IF... you can calm your attitude down.


Edit:

 To be honest, Im surprised the submission was accepted.   One thing about submitting your hard efforts is that they can be denied.  I believe there are many who wont even attempt to make any big core / input changes... merely because they are fearful that they will be rejected...  and so no progress ever happens, even If that person actually would like to make beneficial changes.

[CheffoJeffo]

Please read this thread and note Derrick's is actually alone by himself in supporting those changes, he lost every argument we had, and even though his friends would like to support him, no one did, which is only natural since it takes just few minutes to actually test and confirm what I am talking about:

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=244132&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&vc=1

I know that English is not your first language and that your comprehension skills are teh suxxorz, but WTF are you talking about ?

As you were told in that thread -- your knowledge is lacking or outdated.

More than two weeks I am trying to explain the simplest thing to you, and all you did was ignore me like that and call me a "Troll", making everyone else hate me, ignore me too or jump all over me with no good reason or explanation, usually having no idea what is really going on. Then when I loose my patience with you, I get to be called jerk again, as if no one really cares what I am actually saying and what is the TRUTH.

To be clear, I hated you as Driver-Man and Derrick had nothing to do with that.

PS - 60-in-1 boards are illegal!

[Xiaou2]

I hated you

 You Hate a lot of people.   And thats part of the problem.  You instigate a lot of the pile-on's which cause things to get even more out of hand.

 "Hate" is a Childish response period.

 Your responses are just as Childish as his, and designed to provoke him further.

[CheffoJeffo]

Your responses are just as Childish as his, and designed to provoke him further.

That's not true -- my responses are far more childish. They are, however, designed to provoke him. I'm glad the nuance wasn't wasted on you.

 

FWIW, the choice of 'hate' was a direct tongue-in-cheek response to his blaming Derrick for "making everybody else hate me". I guess I'm not surprised that that particular nuance was wasted on somebody who sees capitalization and punctuation as an exercise in random character placement.

 

You really should read the stuff that he posts, here and elsewhere, and THEN come back and tell me who the problem is.

[Derrick Renaud]

Are the three days up already? Awwwwwwww....

Yep and this will be my last post here and on the MAMEworld forums.  Too time consuming to deal with the child that is everywhere on the internet annoying everyone.

One last attempt at real facts:

1. Abaraba keeps saying to put "his" code in and not mine.  First, it is not his code.  He found the code on another site describing MAME's original code.

2. All you have to do is select "Real" in the new code and this code he wishes is there.  No speed hit measurable even on a P2.  Though unless you set the center axis to "None", it will mess up on mouse control.

3. The joystick code that he demands be removed has nothing to do with me.  This code is usefull to some users.  But he keeps saying it is my anal_hack code.  Which is a misnomer anyways.  Anal would be to accurately do something in anal detail, which would better describe:

4.  The new spinner code that accurately emulates the real control using a single axis.  This is better for code testing.  Easier for the end user and no real speed hit.

So he is ranting on for no reason that I can see.

So all in all, as always, he refuses to read/understand any issue and just rambles on, always slightly changing his attacks, all the while saying don't hate me, etc.  All the trademarks of a Troll.

But I have no interest in costant troll attacks, so bye.  Anything I do will be found in the what's new file. Or posted as an update on the forums, but not responded to, except in private to usefull people.

Please contact Abaraba about any questions on the shifter support he is adding.  I will not do anything to conflict with his code.

[abaraba]

Xiaou2,

You can do the same thing what brave Lando did in that thread. You can test it with spinner and mouse so to explain to Derrick those two work just the same and do not need separate handling function. Ok?

If you have analog stick, move it slowly and please report to Derrick there is a bug making movement jittery, ok?


I started all this becasue of you, why are you now giving up after 8 years? Without me, you do not have PROPER solution for this, nor will you see gear shifter games resolved any time soon. I'm telling you again, now is the time, join me and we will rule the galaxy... I'm your father!

[yotsuya]

Derrick-

As someone who played a lot of 720 as a kid, thanks for making it useable on my system. 

[abaraba]

A good submission will be handled by the project leader.

Obviously Derrick's submission was accepted with all the bugs and nonsense, which means there is NO ONE "handling" submissions. This is the time where brave humans like you and super mutants like me have to stand up and make a difference, wake up, don't give up!

And what do you imagine how "handling" of submissions looks like? Is there discussion about it, many people saying pros and cons, or do you think its just one very wise person making all the decisions? Well, the truth obviously is no one seem to care, my friend. Do you?

[abaraba]

So he is ranting on for no reason that I can see.

How about the bug causing jittery motion I told you about 73 times?

Forget bloody everything, I found you a bug in core input engine, hello!!


Sure, go plug your head back in the sand and mumble "troll", disappointing.

[Bootay]

Someone shut this --cream-filled twinkie-- up already. This guy is like a fart in a car.

Somehow I want to believe that it is a fake account used with the intent on annoying and pissing off everyone. No one agrees with anything you say...please just go.

[Bootay]

Whether you agree or disagree or like or dislike Derrick, at least he is making an effort to do the things that people are requesting. Give the guy a little credit. Now you just drove him away. And why? Because it wasn't your code that was submitted? 

[abaraba]

Someone shut this --cream-filled twinkie-- up already. This guy is like a fart in a car.

Somehow I want to believe that it is a fake account used with the intent on annoying and pissing off everyone. No one agrees with anything you say...please just go.

You do not even have an opinion of your own, not one you could articulate anyway, so you can't even really "disagree", just wave hands like that.


Homer Simpson:
- " ...and all they ask for in return is a little bit of blind fate."

[abaraba]

Whether you agree or disagree or like or dislike Derrick, at least he is making an effort to do the things that people are requesting. Give the guy a little credit. Now you just drove him away. And why? Because it wasn't your code that was submitted? 

No. This is what happened:


1.)  Derrick came to support Haze into repeating one and the same story to Xiaou how they DO NOT WANT TO DO IT, which was just the same old story going on for LAST EIGHT YEARS.

2.) Then, when I said I am going to do it, they REFUSED to discuss it, saying those changes will never be accepted. 

3.) Then Derrick made contradicting statement, literally confirming the main argument against them, and to get out of that funny mistake he decided to do what he was refusing to do all these years.


I made him do it, and I regret it. Instead of my mission to be accomplished at that point, the new mission had begun as I could not let to be responsible/connected to such an ugly hack. Why? PRINCIPLE, the one that sorts out good from lousy programs, and I care about that, it's my curse ever since I was bitten by radioactive driver.

[Bootay]

Someone shut this --cream-filled twinkie-- up already. This guy is like a fart in a car.

Somehow I want to believe that it is a fake account used with the intent on annoying and pissing off everyone. No one agrees with anything you say...please just go.

You do not even have an opinion of your own, not one you could articulate anyway, so you can't even really "disagree", just wave hands like that.


Homer Simpson:
- " ...and all they ask for in return is a little bit of blind fate."

Say what you want about me, you know nothing about me to form such an opinion.

I on the other hand can form such an opinion of you because you have crudded up this forum and every other forum under the sun with all of your crap and everyone knows what you are about. You make developer's jobs harder because no matter what you are never satisfied.

But I am not about to get into a flame war with you...because I believe that somehow you get turned on by it.

[Xiaou2]

Obviously Derrick's submission was accepted with all the bugs and nonsense, which means there is NO ONE "handling" submissions.

 There is someone handling the submissions, else nothing would get added or rejected.

 Have you Officially submitted your code in?

 When you do, then you can complain if it does get rejected.

 Until then, you are just trying to open a door by pulling it instead of pushing it.

 Ive not yet tested the code.  However, Im pretty sure I understand why he made 2 separate methods to handle optical input.  Ill try to explain a little later.   Maybe my explanation will be a little more clearer.  I believe you are not quite understanding a certain aspect of it all.

 My old spinner was a mouse hack, and isnt operational anymore.  I planned to buy a new spinner, or driver board for the arcade spinners I have... but have not yet gotten round to it, so tests will take a while for me.  Someone with a spinner can report as needed...

 And as said... if there really is a jitter / bug problem, then its either from the original hack, which Derrick may not have dared to change for fear of driver rejection... or there is something else... and if you have that solution, it surely will be accepted.

 Either way, if you react with low class you will only get more negative reactions from people.


 As for Derrick leaving..  you cant blame anyone except him for it, as its his choice.  Haze threatened to quit the scene, and yet he still continued to work on mame.  It was more of a drama move than anything else.

 Derrick has made threats about shifter stuff before, but in reality, he gave up midway due to reasons other than peoples complaining.  The threats about cessation were just made to try to get masses who didnt know the situation, to dislike the "Complainer", as his form of being a Troll.

 Understandably, the input system is a mess, and nobody wants to work on it... and it would seem most Devs are fearful that any changes are not going to be accepted.. so they dont make any attempts.

[Xiaou2]

I guess I'm not surprised that that particular nuance was wasted on somebody

 Cheffo,

  After you troll... You gave me a backhanded comment, and yet you want me to give you credit?

 I think there is a difference between someone who has some issues, and cant see past them
(yet)  ... -vs-  someone who knows better, and decides to act out equally cold/mean/negatively.

 
 Anyways, I believe in Infinite possibilities.  If you have ever thought I was a mess recently, you should have seen me in my childhood to teen stages.  Knowing that I was able to become better, makes it easier to know that every person can become better, if they want to.  Which makes it easier to see the good in people, and what they have potential to become... rather than what they currently are.   I know I thank the heavens that some people viewed and treated me like this as well.. else I would have been 1000x worse than what I started out as... which is 6000x worse than all the Trolls on Byoac put together.   heh


 Sometimes people need a little push (or bucket of ice cold water) in the right direction... rather than a troll showdown which further pushes them in the Wrong direction.  (That certainly almost caused my own early demise.. )

 As a father, you of all should know the value of patience, understanding, acceptance.
Being a child has little to do with age however...   and so we should remember that when we look upon our fellow humanoids.

 For those stuck in a "personal hell" ... feel sympathy for them.  For whatever caused and causes them to act in such a way is a backpack that you would never want strapped to you.. let alone them, or anyone else.

[saint]

you should consider more carefully whether you are kissing the wrong buttocks

....

I only mean to be completely neutral, objective and honest, just not silent and conditioned by mass-hypnotic ass kissing. I know you are brave, my friend, and now the time has come, so let's rock'n roll - in the name of truth, veracity and such!

Meh, do it somewhere else. This time the ban is permanent.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

And there was much rejoicing ...

[Paul Olson]

 

[Bootay]

 

[ErikRuud]

And there was much rejoicing ...

+1000

[Paul Olson]

I installed win7 on my cab, and now I need to buy a new wireless card before I can get everything running to test the 720 controller. I will stop at Best Buy tonight to see if they have any decent ones, otherwise, back to Amazon.

It will be a couple days until I can test the controller and a spinner, but I did fire up .141u1 to test out the UI. It is very well done! Very quick and easy to choose between real, spinner, and joystick with the Driver Configuration menu. A separate menu makes it easy to change the analog settings to adjust the dial sensitivity.

Thanks Derrick! It is great to see these changes in there. Sorry the testing is taking so long;I ws hoping to have it done days ago.

[twisty]

Meh, do it somewhere else. This time the ban is permanent.

He was perma-banned on MW as well.

My current working theory is that he's going for a Guiness Book of World Records attempt on forum bans  

[Malenko]

now that hes gone, for now, can someone get Derrick Renaud to come back?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I doubt it's gone for good. He was banned last time too. We'll see a new user called "Z.Aksen" show up here in a few weeks

[M.Batao aka Driver-Man]

saint's note - Driver-man is determined to get this out. I don't have an issue with the technical discussion. He was banned for not following the rules of civility on the forum despite being asked repeatedly. Accordingly, I've nuked his personal commentary from this post of his, but left the technical bits. This account of his is also banned (that's 4 now for anyone counting). I have lots of patience and no personal emotional investment in this.

--- saint


720 Degrees bugs:

1.) analog stick jittery monition

2.) SPRITE FLICKERING/DISAPPEARING

http://mametesters.org/view.php?id=380

Second one is officially submitted bug we have since 2008. I can fix them both.


Xiaou, I wish to give you a present. The source code, binaries and diffs ready to be be submitted to MAME, but of course you can do with it whatever you want as it's yours now, if you will take it? The code I have fixes both problems and can also support analog stick hack, authentic controller, arcade spinners, trackballs, mouse, and keyboard with two modes of operation. If I get banned again just send me an e-mail and I'll give you download links.

... Manifesto quotes snipped......

Theory of operation: "inptport.c"
--------------------------------
Nicola Salmoria and the MAME Team:

  " There are three types of controls that the OSD can provide as potential
    input devices: digital controls, absolute analog controls, and relative
    analog controls.

    Similarly, the types of controls used by arcade games fall into the same
    three categories: digital, absolute analog, and relative analog. "




C:\>mame 720

Default mapping for all the games is to keyboard (digital) input, naturally.
So, above command will start the game without enabling any additional
input devices, and consequently the TAB mapping menu looks like this:

Analog axis X .................... NONE
Digital LEFT ..................... Left arrow
Digital RIGHT .................... Right arrow

Analog axis Y .................... NONE
Digital UP ....................... Up arrow
Digital DOWN ..................... Down arrow




C:\>mame 720 -mouse

To play the game with authentic controller, spinner, trackball or mouse,
you do exactly the same thing as you would do with Arkanoid, Missile
Command or any other such game, that is you have to ENABLE the mouse
first, and consequently the TAB mapping menu looks like this:

Analog axis X .................... Mouse X
Digital LEFT ..................... Left arrow
Digital RIGHT .................... Right arrow

Analog axis Y .................... Mouse Y
Digital UP ........................ Up arrow
Digital DOWN ..................... Down arrow
  



C:\>mame 720 -joy

To play ANY game with analog joystick we again need to ENABLE it first,
MAME then automatically maps it, and consequently the TAB menu looks
like this:

Analog axis X .................... Joy X
Digital LEFT ..................... Left arrow
Digital RIGHT .................... Right arrow

Analog axis Y .................... Joy Y
Digital UP ........................ Up arrow
Digital DOWN ..................... Down arrow

 
That's it. The menu was there since the very beginning. User does not even have to know anything about it, only to enable their input device like they would for any other game. Mapping of enabled devices is AUTOMATIC already, it's a nice old feature.

...Self important "savior of MAME" bits removed...

[CheffoJeffo]

Refer to my reply to your PM on the subject and follow my instructions.

[yotsuya]

I'm curious to what your reply and instructions were. 

[Hoopz]

* Hoopz sits back and waits for dipshit's IP to be reported and banned

[Hoopz]

Are we allowed to make St. Goblin jokes or is it too soon?   

[saint]

I think I'm supposed to be St. Goblin? I look ridiculous in orange...

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm curious to what your reply and instructions were. 

It is clear that DriverCadabraMan is very passionate about MAME and I can respect that.

He also refuses to lie down when the world stands against him and I can respect that.

He makes a clear and impassioned case about how he is a persecuted antihero and I can respect that.

So, in the spirit of all of that respect, I sent a reply to him that said "---fudgesicle--- off, dipshit!" (props to Hoopz for calling it as I see it ... we're both right!).

 

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Someone with more time and energy than me should find out if our friend "Driver-Man|abaraba|M.Batao"  saint's note - possible personal info removed... Thanks guys, but no pitchforks and burning torches please I'm sure they'd love a fresh supply of eggs.

[Hoopz]

Someone with more time and energy than me should find out if our friend "Driver-Man|abaraba|M.Batao"  saint's note - possible personal info removed... Thanks guys, but no pitchforks and burning torches please I'm sure they'd love a fresh supply of eggs.

Does Ark know that you're stealing his thunder?  And if we're road trippin', I'll go to New Zealand straight away.   

[saint]

And though I know I'm playing along by doing so, I really can't stand accusations of censorship. I believe I cut him off before he got all his PM's out. He intended it, as I understand it, for:

pinballjim, Grasshopper, cotmm68030, RayB, Haze, CheffoJeffo, Vigo, ark_ader, yotsuya, and shateredsoul.

If any of you didn't get the PM and want to see it, I believe Cheffo got a copy. You can ask him for a copy of it. If you care to, you can also compare what I left of his original post to see if I left the pertinent technical bits while nuking the self-serving drama. Feel free to correct anything you think I cut incorrectly. No drama please.

At any rate, I like the technical discussions, I have no patience for the drama.

--- saint