Two-Headed Beast -- Finished

[garwil]

Those are really nice! When I first saw them, I thought, "sod playing street fighter against you," but then I remembered you have two control panels lol!

[mgb]

The control panels are looking great. I love the lit rings on the buttons.

[VanillaGorilla]

Can I be DMEN's friend too? That panel is gorgeous. I think we have similar minds (AGAIN!), I just did the same thing with the clear buttons and sold centers...It's much more understated, which i think creates more visual drama.

[Nephasth]

Thanks guys!

I think we have similar minds (AGAIN!), I just did the same thing with the clear buttons and sold centers...It's much more understated, which i think creates more visual drama.

Agreed. I think full translucent buttons with LEDs are a little to bright and distracting.

Seeing as how I don't have all my buttons, LEDs, or LED controllers yet, and me really wanting to see some of the different setups I'll be using, I had a little Photoshop fun.

"Populated" with LEDs off:


Mortal Kombat


Neo Geo


TMNT right side


D&D

[Generic Eric]

I really dig the illuminated rings based on the game selection.  What front end do you plan on using, and do you know which front ends support that feature?  Thanks

[Nephasth]

I will be using Hyperspin with LEDBlinky. I do not know about the other front ends, I'm sure the popular ones work with LEDBlinky as well. I fell in love with Hyperspin the moment I laid eyes on it. Seeing Hyperspin was one of the deciding factors for me to build a MAME rig. I have done VERY little research on any of the other front ends.

EDIT: Quick search on youtube found this to work with MALA as well.

[mgb]

sweeeet 

[Pixelhugger]

I really dig the illuminated rings based on the game selection.  What front end do you plan on using, and do you know which front ends support that feature?  Thanks

X2

Really really cool idea.

[Nephasth]

Got my roloc pads and arbor in the mail today. I might go out and buy a couple of clamps to use as a fence on the drill press. I'm going to try to lay my grid on the marquee today and with a little luck I should have the whole thing finished this week.

[Nephasth]

Marquee Engine Turning Prep

In order for me to make this finish look as close as possible to a machined finish, I had to lay a grid on the marquee. Since the cutout portion of the marquee is not going to share the same finish as the background portion, I had to make an insert (in this case cardboard) for the cutout. This will allow me to more easily keep track of the grid and center every circle in the engine turning process.

Cardboard Insert


Taped to the back to get the front as close to flush as possible.


After about an hour's worth of work the marquee has the grid laid down and is pretty much ready to go.


I imagine it will take a few hours to apply the finish... 133 circles...

[TopJimmyCooks]

You've got the right tools.  On the layout marks, consider making a mark on the fence that lines up with the center of the drill chuck, then indexing your  grid lines to that.  Your sanding will wipe out the marks out in the middle of the piece.  Then, once you've done each long row, move the fence and workpiece over by the correct amount to match your layout in the other direction. 

for consistency, use the drill press depth stop to bottom out the pad at a repeatable point.  Count each time you drop the pad (one missisippi, etc). for repeatability.  Use a test piece or the back to figure out the the depth and time.

End of unsolicited free advice . . . .  

That engine turning will look great in no time.

[VanillaGorilla]

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths that people will go to for this hobby, myself included...Is your time this cheap Nephasth? What would the cost be to have this marquee re-cut in the appropriate material?

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, I love what you've done so far, I just know that feeling of trying to do something like you are doing with this marquee, and ALMOST every time I've found myself at the end (regardless of how good or bad it came out), wondering why I didn't just call Ghostbusters, instead of trying to build my own Proton Pack! One of my biggest shortcomings is thinking I can do everything myself. I usually can, but at what cost in time? Anyway, GOOD LUCK!!!

[Nephasth]

I've decided against the fence. Even though it would save time, it would be too complicated to set up and I wouldn't be able to use it for the middle row (the drill press table is too shallow). Instead, I'm going to remove the pad from the arbor shank and bring it down to each center mark then clamp the marquee into place. This will increase the length of time significantly, but it should ensure accuracy. I'm going to start on it tonight, we'll see how it goes.

[Nephasth]

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths that people will go to for this hobby, myself included...Is your time this cheap Nephasth? What would the cost be to have this marquee re-cut in the appropriate material?

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, I love what you've done so far, I just know that feeling of trying to do something like you are doing with this marquee, and ALMOST every time I've found myself at the end (regardless of how good or bad it came out), wondering why I didn't just call Ghostbusters, instead of trying to build my own Proton Pack! One of my biggest shortcomings is thinking I can do everything myself. I usually can, but at what cost in time? Anyway, GOOD LUCK!!!

I charge myself $Free.99/hr. It would cost me double what I paid for the marquee and another month+ before I would get it. Also, now that I'm dead set on the engine turning, I wouldn't be able to get it from the same guy in the finish I want. I take no offense in your comments. I am naturally mechanically inclined and a very hands on person. I take a lot of pride in my work and would much rather look at anything I own knowing "Yeah, I did that." Also, let's say I have a lot of free time that would otherwise be felt like a waste if I wasn't doing something like this.

Edit: This is about the equivalent of buying a hot rod vs. building a hot rod.

[gryhnd]

I admire your tenacity in replicating the effect. I totally would have backed down to a laminate or vinyl product just from the hassle factor.

[VanillaGorilla]

Good on you. Nothing but respect. You've humbled me so far...I remember the first time I saw your thread, and I was like, "2-headed, Wha?!? This is gonna end in tears..." And now I'm like, "this one is gonna be an example thread!"

I'm not a god fearing man, but all of my prayers go out to you. Cant wait to see end the result!

[Nephasth]

Many thanks for everone's positive and motivating comments!

[TopJimmyCooks]

You've got the attitude of a builder and explorer which is the most important thing.  Results will be good.  I too would rather buy a $30 tool than pay $30 to hire someone.  Hand aligned turning has its own look which you can see on old aircraft, hotrods, etc on pieces that were finished after the metal was shaped/curved.  It's different but still good. 

[Nephasth]

Well that didn't go as planned at all.


Plan B: What gryhnd suggested. Vinyl overlay with not quite what I want, but it will have to do pattern.

Edit: Found a couple of finishes I like. Galvanized Silver and Engine Turn. Couldn't decide so I ordered both... which was still less money than I spent on supplies for my failed engine turning attempt. Wise one are you VanillaGorilla.

[gryhnd]

Use these for your ebay search terms, then filter by Buy It Now and "lowest to highest" for the price.

vinyl engine turn -tape

this returned a lot of decent looking stuff.

[VanillaGorilla]

Aw man. Least you gave it a good try!

This is quickly becoming my motto: If at first you don't succeed, pay somebody else!

Memories I could live without:  I have a pile of old ball mice and hard drive spindles in a box somewhere from trying to build my own spinners!! 

[drventure]

If you can laser cut those panels, can you laser etch them as well? Or is that a completely different beast?

Laser etched artwork could look great on those panels!

[Nephasth]

If you can laser cut those panels, can you laser etch them as well? Or is that a completely different beast?

Laser etched artwork could look great on those panels!

These are composite. There is plastic in between two layers of metal. Some of the plastic actually started melting while I had it on the drill press. The actual metal thickness is like 1/32" to 1/16". I think they were originally cut with a CNC router.

I think the plastic is what was giving me problems, when it heated up it wasn't providing enough firm support for the metal above allowing it to give just enough to cause "bare" spots in the circles.

After sleeping on it, I think I'm going to do the whole marquee (letters and background) in the galvanized silver. We'll see how it reflects light when it gets here. I just don't want something too shiny.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Was that a layer of white protective plastic over the face of the metal?  It would be impossible to engine turn with that in place. 

[Nephasth]

No, that was the metal. Just a ---smurfy--- pic.

[Nephasth]

Got the marquee lookin' better.

[mgb]

nice.
it looks kinda like pearloid, like a guitar pickgaurd.

[drventure]

Very nice!

[RandyT]

These are composite. There is plastic in between two layers of metal. Some of the plastic actually started melting while I had it on the drill press. The actual metal thickness is like 1/32" to 1/16". I think they were originally cut with a CNC router.

I think the plastic is what was giving me problems, when it heated up it wasn't providing enough firm support for the metal above allowing it to give just enough to cause "bare" spots in the circles.

After sleeping on it, I think I'm going to do the whole marquee (letters and background) in the galvanized silver. We'll see how it reflects light when it gets here. I just don't want something too shiny.

The vinyl looks pretty decent, but I have to ask about the engine turning attempt.  It looks more like it was polishing the metal (machinists often use scotchbrite for this) rather than grinding it.  Did you remember to soak it with some WD-40, or some kind of lubricant / coolant during your attempt?  That was a pretty important part of the process.  If not, that resulting heat is likely what caused your plastic to start melting.  Then again, just the fact that the substrate was a laminate to begin with (it wasn't mentioned originally) might have doomed it from the start.  Glad to see you found another workable strategy!

[Nephasth]

Did you remember to soak it with some WD-40, or some kind of lubricant / coolant during your attempt?

Yes, the roloc and the surface were both lubricated while trying to engine turn. After thinking about it for a while, 3" circles may have be too big for that type of finish. The engine turning I had read about used 1/2" and 1" circles. Even though I didn't achieve what I originally set out to do, I'm very pleased with how the marquee looks now. It catches light very well. I might even use a strip of that same vinyl to go behind the invaders.

Now, on to my progress! I was finally able to order the rest of the buttons for the two joystick panels. I love the way these buttons have turned out, but man are they expensive. I have to order twice as many buttons as I need and with the RGBs an order of 50 buttons (to make 25 of these) is over $150. To mod all these buttons to what I consider ready to use took me around 6-7 hours total spread across a few days. You can see the first steps of modding the buttons for the RGBs in one of my earlier posts.


Here's one after the wires were hot glued around the holes to prevent any stress on the RGB board connections (thanks for the tip VanillaGorilla).


I cut the wires to my desired length (2.5" from the base of the button) and stripped the ends for the terminal pins.


With terminal pins crimped to the wire ends.


With the terminal pins installed into a male Molex 4 pin connector. These connectors will allow me to remove a button from my panels without cutting the RGB harness or having to pull terminal pins out of another connector (unlikely I will ever have to pull just a single button, but you never know and I don't want to hack up a harness later).


Here you can see that a microswitch can still be removed and installed without the pigtail harness getting in the way.


20 buttons are finished. I'm still waiting on more connectors to arrive to finish the last six. You can also see the new player buttons I got, they turned out better than expected with the translucent button bodies.

For anyone wanting to know (and for easy future reference for myself) the Molex part numbers are:
Male Connector - 0430250400
Female Connector - 0430200401
Pins for Male Connector - 0430300001
Pins for Female Connector - 0430310001

The part number for the die set that I used (die sets easily swap out in the jaws of the orange crimpers) that crimps the terminal pins is HT-236-2C4-DIE (not a Molex number).

[alfonzotan]

As Butt-head once said to Beavis, this project is cooler than anything that has ever been cool before. 

Not even finished yet, and it's already awesome.  Great job.   

[Nephasth]

Looking good.  Personally I'm not a fan of dead buttons on a control panel.  Instead of having them unlit, can you light up two buttons the same color for the same input.

For example, I've got a cabinet with the SF2 6 button layout:

123
456

When I configure a 3-button game, I'll change the inputs to:

123
123

I think since you're color coding everything, you could make it look nice.

Yes, that could easily be done. But there are two main reasons I will be having some buttons unlit during game play. The first is to mimmick as close as possible the original dedicated button layouts and colors for whatever game is selected. The second is to make it easy for guests playing this machine. They will know that if a button is lit, they can use it. It would be strange and confusing to have 7 buttons lit up for a game like TMNT or The Simpsons. Also, I don't want players 3 and 4 lit up during two player games.

As Butt-head once said to Beavis, this project is cooler than anything that has ever been cool before. 

Not even finished yet, and it's already awesome.  Great job.   

Thank you, thank you. Just wish I had the $$$ to finish this quick. But the down time lets me think out the details.

[VanillaGorilla]

Man, I love those molex connectors. That crimping had to have been punishing, but the results look great. Are you chaining all of the white wires together on the female side, or are you running a bunch of leads to a terminal block? ? Did you order directly from Molex, or use somewhere like digi-key? Cant wait to see the finished product!

[thatpurplestuff]

Hot damn those buttons look nice!  Love the molex connectors!

[Nephasth]

Man, I love those molex connectors. That crimping had to have been punishing, but the results look great. Are you chaining all of the white wires together on the female side, or are you running a bunch of leads to a terminal block? ? Did you order directly from Molex, or use somewhere like digi-key? Cant wait to see the finished product!

80 crimps so far, wasn't too bad, the crimpers lock in place in steps. For the majority of the button RGBs (21 to be exact) I will be using a PACLED64 which has a + terminal in each of its banks of 4. So for the RGBs wired to the PACLED64, they will each have a dedicated + wire.

[Nephasth]

While we're on the subject of connectors... I made a little more progress these past couple days. I made 3 VGA "breakout" cables. Compared to wiring up the pigtail harnesses for the buttons, these were little MFers. Lots of insulation, shielded wires, and tiny wires that break easily. Another thing to note, there is no such thing as standardization when it comes to VGA cables. I easily have 4+ hours into these things (I had to redo 2 of them). Great little project if you have a lot of spare time on your hands like I do, but if you need one quick you might want to save yourself some trouble and buy one from Ultimarc. The connectors I used connect directly onto Wells Gardner video input headers and they also fit on a 19" Vision Pro that I have. I still need to buy a VGA Y-cable to put up the same image on both monitors. Good news is they work, I get the Windows loading screen on my arcade monitors. I don't get anything after that though. I might have old ATI drivers still hanging around on the computer or it might just be a simple resolution issue, haven't had time to take a good look at it yet. The third cable is for DMEN's project once it gets off the ground.



Molex numbers for you DIYers:
Connector - 0009507101
Pins - 0008500105

I used the crimper dies that originally came in my crimpers, not the ones I used for the button pigtails (these are much bigger pins).

[TopJimmyCooks]

All hail the master of molex.   

[scofthe7seas]

This is an amazing project. It blows my cab out of the water. Though I am very happy with my new cab, this completely brings out a bit of jealousy . Almost makes me wish I were less lazy!

[Nephasth]

Thanks guys.

IT CAN SEE!
I finally found some time to look into the display issue. It was what I suspected. There were some old ATI drivers hanging around. I used the utility found on Ultimarc's ArcadeVGA Installation page to remove all ATI drivers. Reinstalled the drivers for the ArcadeVGA and now I have Windows display on an arcade monitor. What a relief.



However, I have now ran into some Hyperspin issues that I'll have to figure out. Also the image isn't stable on the screen. It's somewhat of a throb in the display that is more noticeable around the top and bottom. I've adjusted the V Hold and H Hold along with some other pots with no luck taming the throbbing. I didn't have this issue running straight off and arcade pcb, and I still have the issue with all the VGA cables I have. I have a nice bright picture (after turning up the contrast and brightness), so I don't think the monitors NEED a video amplifier. Does anyone happen to know if an amplifier will take care of the issue, or if the remedy is something else? If I can't figure it out over the next few days I'll try getting a hold of Andy.

I don't have my U360s yet (they're still a ways out financially), but I will be putting this together enough to be playable with some joysticks I have laying around. I need to get this up and running for some testing. Can't wait.

[Nephasth]

One thing I haven't posted about yet is my testing CP. It has been great for setting up HS and MAME away from the cabinet (and playing on other computers with an external hard drive). I threw it together with spare parts I had laying around the garage. The box is a plastic drawer the previous residents left behind. I have used both an I-PAC2 and a LONO in this. It is much nicer sitting at a desk with a keyboard to test, rather than standing at my cab that doesn't have a keyboard tray.


This was the original set up. I didn't have many extra buttons or switches at the time, so for a while I was only able to test 3 button games. In this pic it has the I-PAC2 installed.


This is how it is currently configured. The layout matches exactly how players 1 and 2 are layed out in the cabinet CPs. The buttons are fairly close to the joystick due the small size of the cabinet CPs, but it is still fairly comfortable to play (I am really loving the "ergonomic" 7 button layout). The buttons are the spare parts I had from my order to make the buttons for the cabinet CPs. In this pic it has the LONO installed. I was able to reuse two of mounting holes I had used for the I-PAC2.

After trying out the LONO in this, I'm really wanting to build 4 "fight sticks" to use with a HTPC in my living room. One of the sticks would be the master which would connect to the HTPC via USB and the slave sticks would connect to the master via harnesses with molex connectors. But I really should focus on one project at a time.