How to hide bolts?

[pinballwizard79]

Yes its me again, splitting up my control panel related questions in order to ease the pain.

How do I hide bolts on my control panel?

I want a nice smooth bolt free top with a layer of plexi over everything. Do I undermount or is there a way to top mount everything & still hide the bolts? What about those shorter throw galaga pacman direct replacement  4 ways joysticks? I would have to top mount those right? If so man I need to hide me some bolts somehow but really need some direction.

Thanks

PW79

[javeryh]

There are lots of ways to do this.  You can recess them using your router, bondo, sand and then cover the holes with art.  Machine Binding Posts worked great for me.  So easy!

[LeedsFan]

I don't use bolts as such. I use countersunk threaded "bolts". There's probably a proper name for them. Just like bolts but with a countersunk head. That way you can get them flush with the wood panel and just put the nut on the other end with a lock washer.

The only problem with filling the head over with bondo or similar is that if you ever need to remove the bolt completely then you have a problem. I have done this method in the past and I have not yet had to remove any of those bolts. But if I did I'd have a problem of getting under the art etc.etc.  I don't have the art stuck to the panel anymore and I don't bondo in the countersunk heads. I just make them flush.

[bkenobi]

Use T-nuts instead of nuts.  The T-nut is top mounted and the bolt attaches from the bottom.  This only works if you bottom mount though.  If you route out material from the bottom, you get the same look as a top mount without any of the bolts hanging around the surface.  Alternately, you can use mounting plates with threaded studs welded to the bottom and top mount them.  I tried to do that, but couldn't get a spot weld to work without destroying the threads.  A machine shop could do it pretty easily though.

[LeedsFan]

The proper name for the "bolts" I was referring to is machine screws. That's what they are called here in the UK anyway. Just get countersunk ones.

[bkenobi]

Machine screws can be countersunk and will hide just fine.  However, you have to access the head with a screw driver, which means that maintenance will damage your overlay.  If, on the other hand, you use machine binding posts or t-nuts (basically the same thing), you will be able to remove components without the need to access the top ever.  Your choice!

[LeedsFan]

Machine screws can be countersunk and will hide just fine.  However, you have to access the head with a screw driver, which means that maintenance will damage your overlay.  If, on the other hand, you use machine binding posts or t-nuts (basically the same thing), you will be able to remove components without the need to access the top ever.  Your choice!

This is exactly why I don't permanently stick the artwork to the CP any more. Use a little double sided tape to just hold it in position and you can always remove it later if you need to.

[pinballwizard79]

From what I gather there is no way to hide the bolts for top mounted joysticks correct?

It appears the best bet is to router out a spot for the joys on the underside, then recess the top for those flat screws or posts or put those steel thread tubes in from the other side.

Is that about right?

So to top mount a 4 way = bolts on the cp

[nitz]

I'm pretty sure groovygamegear sells a joystick bottom mounting kit, you might want to take a look at that.

[Neverending Project]

After looking at it some more, I am pretty sure you can drill counter-sink holes in the plastic housing of the Happ 4-ways, enough to keep the machine head screws flush if you top-mount it.


The only real question left is the 8-way Trigger Stick.


You can route a recess for the plate, but there is no way to counter-sink holes in the metal mounting plate. There may be a way to under-mount it, but you would need to leave enough material to hold either a threaded insert, or a screw (probably 0.4-0.5-inches.). It's hard to say if it would effect the throw if you under-mounted it by that much.

Has anyone hidden the bolts on a trigger stick?

[fallacy]

just use these

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70&products_id=317


What I did was practice on a spare piece of wood how big the drill bit needed to be and how far I had to go down. When I found the right size drill bit and the depth which I marked off with a piece of tape on the drill bit I was able to finish the control panel pretty easy.

You have to find the right size drill bit. If the whole is too small you will crack the wood when you screw in the bolt. if the whole is to big you might end up striping out the area.

[LeedsFan]

Looking at that trigger stick.... why couldn't you route out ~4mm of the wood panel and then sit the plate in that? Simply use normal headed machine screws and then the heads won't be above the surface of the wood panel. Then just two pieces of 3mm plexi to sit in the gap you have left. You'd need to cut little bits out where the machine screw heads sit, but the rest of it will now be flush. You need two pieces of course because you need to put them together round the base of the stick (with a hole cut out when they meet together)

You may need to adjust the measurements I've said here. For example I'm guessing that the mounting plate is 1mm thick. And I'm assuming that the stick will still function correctly if the plate is recessed by 4mm. If the plexi isn't perfectly flush (I'm a bit anal when it comes to this sort of thing  ) then I just place bits of card under the plexi until it is.

I've done this method before with joysticks to get the ball-top at the perfect height for my personal preference. Then I just fill the recess above the plate with a piece of plexi to make the whole panel flush. Once artwork is put over the top it's no different to any other panel.
Just don't permanently affix the artwork so that you can get to the screws if you need to do any maintenance later. I use small bits of double sided tape to hold the art in place. It's firm enough but easily removable later if needed.

EDIT:  I just had an afterthought... I take it the handle of that trigger stick is easily removable yes? (I've never used one before to be honest). Because if not then applying artwork is gonna be a ---smurfette---! And if it is removable then you can fit one piece of plexi in the recess with a hole cut out... no need to make it two pieces.

[Breaker]

Hi all,

I had this same issue when it came to mounting my joysticks and other elements. I had a couple of Wico 8-ways, a trigger joystick and realized
that under-mounting with the ability to remove if necessary along with my plans to laminate and have no bolt holes was going to be tough.
After some head-scratching I picked-up some 1/8" aluminum sheet and began playing around with the idea of mounting plates that I could route into the
top of my control panel. I eventually found that the idea could work.

Essentially, I created aluminum mounting plates for my joysticks which had bolts epoxied into them for easy installation and removal. I then routed my control
panel to mount the plates flush, filled the gaps with wood filler and voila! I've attached a few pics of the process but I can get into more detail if folks are interested.

This method is more work (but not much) and requires a drill press. The only issue I found was that while the epoxied bolts could handle a ton of
torsional pressure (ie. you can really tighten the bolts without breaking the epoxy) they were a little delicate from a lateral stress point of view.
Once installed though they have been super tough and strong.

Breaker

[LeedsFan]

lol... look how clean and neat that routing is Breaker. That's why I stopped making project threads with pics.    I was gonna post pics of how I did my Seimitsu LS32-01 sticks recently but I just did my routing by hand (you aint gonna see it anyway) .... and then I see your pics. I'd have been shamed. 

[pinballwizard79]

Breaker that is too much work

[Franco B]

Respect Breaker.

Its nice to see some thoughtful craftmanship 

I really do get tired of the 'it will do' attitude.

[Breaker]

Thanks folks

Honestly though, it wasn't that much work, maybe one afternoon if you don't count glue drying time;
just a bit of careful cutting and drilling...

Cheers,
Breaker.

[drventure]

I did something similar, but I found that the epoxy just didn't hold well. It broke on several mounting bolts, but by then the formica had already been glued down on top.

Where's a welder when you need one 

[Breaker]

Agreed drventure,

- if I had access to a welder that would have been the route I went as well.

I haven't had one break yet but I imagine if a bolt did break loose I'd still be able to
tighten it by holding the end with needle-nose pliers while tightening the nut so
not all would be lost once the laminate was on.

Breaker.

[LeedsFan]

I really do get tired of the 'it will do' attitude.

Some of us just don't have the talent or equipment that you guys have. I've seen stuff by your good self, Knievel, Ond etc. and it is really top notch.  I'd like to think that I can do decent enough stuff (by my own limitations) but I could never compete with you guys. Not that that is my aim of course.

I like to suggest "cutting corners" as it were where the finished product shows no sign of it. Stuff i suggest is usually "under the skin". It's not like it's a mass produced product up for general sale. You guys have set the bar high and that is only good for the hobby for us to try to achieve the same. But if we don't please don't get tired.

[Franco B]

Its nothing to do with talent or equipment, I'm talking about attitude.

Cutting corners is fine where cost, materials and resources allow/restrict. Everyone does it.

Lack of effort/pride, on the other hand, is what annoys me.

Man, if this hobby was a competition I would have quit with my tail between my legs years ago

[pinballwizard79]

Pffft ftw

My comment of "thats too much work" really ruffled some feathers. Let me rephrase that to "I cannot do that kind of stuff in my basement with a 18v Dewalt but damn you did some crazy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---".

There

[Blanka]

Just make a 2-layer CP. 1 metal layer, with the artwork, and a wooden/MDF one under it to mount everything to. The buttons will keep the 2 together, so no bolts are needed in the metal part.

[Franco B]

FWIW, I wasn't commenting on anyones posts in this thread. I have no idea what kinda work some of you guys do, It was more of a global comment.

[pinballwizard79]

Franco, I still need to talk some chrome dustwashers out of you 

I just wanted to make sure I wasnt misinterpreted as a d bag.

I also appreciate all the input & suggestions you guys have given me on this thread

PW79

[eds1275]

I did something similar, but I found that the epoxy just didn't hold well. It broke on several mounting bolts, but by then the formica had already been glued down on top.

Where's a welder when you need one 

I picked up a small arc welder at Canadian Tire a few months back on sale for $85! It is awesome.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/WeldingSoldering/Welders/PRD~0588107P/Mastercraft%252BArc%252BStick%252BWelder.jsp?locale=en

[Jack Burton]

This is just one way to do it.



If you want to top mount your joysticks then you'll basically do the same thing but will need to route out the CP enough for your bolts to clear. 

Maybe a norway bolt would be good for this?

[Donkbaca]

I'll tell you what I did.  I topmounted, used panhead machine bolts on the mounting plates. Then put 1/8 inch veneered plywood with just holes cut out on top, 1/8th plexi on top of that.  The T-molding and buttons hold the layers together.  works well

[bkenobi]

This is just one way to do it.



If you want to top mount your joysticks then you'll basically do the same thing but will need to route out the CP enough for your bolts to clear. 

Maybe a norway bolt would be good for this?

The problem I see with either of these methods is how to hold the bolt from spinning while tightening.  I used carriage bolts that sandwich the plexi and wood together.  It works, but of course the heads are showing.  If you use particle board, I'm not sure the wood will resist spinning as much as the plexi does.  If you don't attach the CP to the wood, you can use a screw driver on one side and a wrench on the other to tighten things up (as described above).

I kinda like the idea of using that "norway bolt" epoxied to a mounting plate.  I bet that would work really well!

[Jack Burton]

Slagcoin has some excellent diagrams of different mounting styles.

http://slagcoin.com/joystick/mounting_layering.html