area 51 monitor help!!

[adidas1984x]

I got me a area 51 dedicated cabinet works great, next day I go to use it after playing it for about 20 mins about 12 horizontal bars start to show up on the screen and get brighter and brighter the more the monitor is on finally the picture goes out and all that is left is one big bright white line in the middle of the monitor game is still on but the monitor is just down. its a neotec chassis and a phillips tube.
oh and I forgot to mention if I turn the machine off wait for a bout 5 mins then cut it on its ok again and then the process repeats itself

any help would be great
thanks
Justin

[grantspain]

check for bad solder joints on the flyback transformer

[lilshawn]

ic301 was prone to failure like that. it works sometimes until it heats up and the voooop! also causes dark/light lines to start to appear on the screen.

stems from a combination of bad heat transfer from the ic to the heat sink (lack of good grease coverage) and resistors that tend to get hot and start to burn up and change value. (r263 and r263a)

i would spend the $5 bucks for the IC to just flat out replace it and a couple of bucks for the resistors. be sure to get the plastic isolator on the screw or you will toast the chip the second you power it up.

since it still kind of works, i'd nip this one now, before you end up with a serious problem.

 also check the capacitors in and around the two brass colored heat sinks in the middle of the board, they are often on their way out too. (causes no power symptom and sometimes blows a whole bunch of stuff in the chassis. (i have 3 or 4 of theses totally toasted chassis. i can't fix them for the life of me.)

[adidas1984x]

just so I know too is there another chassis that will work with this setup?

[lilshawn]

just so I know too is there another chassis that will work with this setup?

another NT500 chassis???

i'd guess if you want to replace the monitor i'd think any standard resoulution monitor would work. but they are getting few and far between... not to mention expensive.

if you think you can do it, you could repair the chassis you got for about $10 worth of parts.... $100 if you get someone to do it for you.  200 for a used monitor or 500 for new. dunno if you can get a chassis for it. hit up http://www.neotecgraphic.com for info on having them repair it.

[adidas1984x]

would any monitor chassis work on the tube or does it have to be a neotec?

[lilshawn]

would any monitor chassis work on the tube or does it have to be a neotec?

a universal could be fitted, but the deflection yoke is really the issue... you would have a hard time matching it due to the fact you probably don't have an induction meter to test the millihenries rating of the coils to find a proper match.

a universal chassis could be had for a few hundred dollars... but i'll warn you, without being able to properly test and provide accurate coil measurement, you chances of success are about 50/50 or less. it may work alright at first, but because the coil is mismatched, everything starts running hot and eventually fails (if you can get that far).

[adidas1984x]

pics from under chassis what ya think??

[lilshawn]

i'm suspect of this joint...

i'd remove all the solder and check to make sure the pad is still good and then put new solder on it. maybe even scrape a bit of the green coating off around the pad to make it bigger.

[adidas1984x]

this will be my first time to try and solder so i hope it goes well lol, another question wouldanother chassis like a 8liners chassis work on it swaping it out i saw this article and didnt know if it would work with my monitor


http://retroblast.arcadecontrols.com/articles/8-Liners_1.html

[grantspain]

straight to the horizontal yoke that suspect joint goes-a broken track there would give you a line down the centre of the screen and possibly then cut out

[adidas1984x]

so basically i need to remove some of that solder and redo that spot that is circled

[grantspain]

yes pretty much,you would need to desolder the pin completely and check that the track is not broken.then resolder and see what happens
it is possible that the arcing has damaged the flyback transformer

[RejectedManiac]

Have you done a cap kit? It sounds like with the horizontal lines that it would be a vertical cap problem. I would def install a cap kit. Buy one for you chassis. http://therealbobroberts.net/caps.html has cheap cap kits as well as flybacks. Desolder the old caps with some desolder braid and solder in the new caps. Here is a great video of them explaining the lines problem as well as how to install caps. If you are looking to get your flyback repaired you can hit up chad at arcadecup.com and tell him Brandon sent you. He replaces absolutely everything and doesn't send it back until it is working. OR you can contact the guys who made the video I posted and they have an arcade repair podcast where you tell them what is wrong and they will try to help you repair it yourself. They are great guys. Hope I helped. I would say before you get it repaired contact the guys in the video and they will feature your question and answer on their next podcast.

[MKFan4Life]

i'm suspect of this joint...

i'd remove all the solder and check to make sure the pad is still good and then put new solder on it. maybe even scrape a bit of the green coating off around the pad to make it bigger.

Yeah, lilshawn spotted the same one that looks like it has been REALLY hot at some point to me, too.  Looks lumpy and not smooth and shiny.  That's a pin from the flyback transformer, too.  Suck that stuff out or use the braid and reflow with fresh solder.  I see a couple of points that appear to be pins touching adjoining traces, but I think that's just the angle of the pic.

[adidas1984x]

ok i redid the joint and it still is doing the same thing so i dont know what to do

[grantspain]

if the track is good then its likely to be the flyback transformer,also you would need to check your yoke is not at fault by checking the impedance of the horizontal winding using a multimeter

[adidas1984x]

here is what it does right before the picture goes out and all i get is one big bright white line in the center of the monitor

[grantspain]

white line horizontal or vertical?

[adidas1984x]

It is horizontal and its only 1 line in the center of the monitor everything else is black all that shows is the one line after its been on for a while I can take a pic if needd I just don't want to damage anything

[grantspain]

been barking up the wrong tree with this one,if the line is going horizontally then you have a vertical frame collapse-if its happening after time then its most likely a bad solder joint around the vertical deflection ic-it could be a cap but caps tend to get better after getting warm rather than worse
if you have a remote board with a vertical size pot then check the pot itself and the connections

if its a bad solder joint then a gentle tap on the side of the cab will affect it-if its component failure then it will not

[adidas1984x]

ok update after 30 mins of playing the lines were there and then it did just the one big bright line in the center like always so i hit the side of the cabinet mid ways where the monitor is and the picture came back on with the 12 horizontal white lines so i made the pic visible again but i still dont know what is wrong here

[RejectedManiac]

Those lines look like some vertical cap since there is horizontal lines. There is something vertical wrong. Since you hit the cab and it came back then that seems like something is loose or a cold solder joint in the vertical area. Could be some caps that went bad, cold solder joint on a cap, or a cold solder joint somewhere else dealing with vertical. I highly recommend doing a cap kit. After a cap kit is done then we have knock that problem out of the way and move onto something else to narrow the problem down. Not much else to say until a cap kit is done. Peace.

[adidas1984x]

ok where can I buy the caps for the chassis i cant seem to find a seller online

[grantspain]

those thin lines are just flyback lines,meaning the screen volts is too high on the flyback and needs turning down
the fact that the picture reacts to a physical shock points squarely to a bad solder joint or plug connection

cap kits a shotgun job,sometimes you fix the problem but sometimes you don't

[adidas1984x]

how would i turn down the flyback to get rid of those lines?

[grantspain]

how would i turn down the flyback to get rid of those lines?

on the flyback transformer there are 2 adjustments-one is focus and the other is screen volts
google flyback transformer images and you will see

[MKFan4Life]

I can tell from your pics in your first post (and your videos on YouTube of the Area 51 cab) that your Neotec has a flyback mounted just like mine in my Gauntlet Legends cab.  It's on the right and your Screen and Focus controls are facing the right side of your cabinet (if you are facing the rear of your cab and looking at chassis).  You have to adjust these BLINDLY and it's aggravating, not to mention it makes you feel a little frightened of touching something you ought not to touch, lol!  Try to use one of the plastic tv alignment tools (I use one with simply a small flat head like a flathead screwdriver).  You have only a small area to work in, too, because that metal bracket is all but covering the flyback.  (the bracket on mine has a pincushion board attached to it, but yours may not)  The SCREEN adjustment (unless I am mistaken) is ALWAYS on the bottom and the FOCUS is ALWAYS the one on the top of the flyback.  Once you have adjusted these a couple times you probably will stick the alignment tool right in the correct spot almost every time.





Glad I took plenty of pics when I capped mine last year. 

[adidas1984x]

just did it its better now but after about a hour the lines come back if i adjust it any more the picture collapses so i prob need to do something else

[grantspain]

it could be a capacitor breaking down,it could be a solder joint,it could be the flyback shorting internally
without a schematic on this then its all guess work

[lilshawn]

here:

[RejectedManiac]

ok where can I buy the caps for the chassis i cant seem to find a seller online

Exactly what kind of chassis do you have? I can look for you. I just watched a video and they hit the arcade machine and it fixed it for a bit just like you. They said the HOT was the problem. Check your HOT

[adidas1984x]

Its a neotec 2515 cm

[RejectedManiac]

Any word on your HOT?
Here is some info on your chassis from therealbobroberts
http://therealbobroberts.net/neotec.html Tell him what chassis you got and he can help you with the caps+flyback
They seem pretty rare.. He is very knowledgeable with arcade machine repairs.

[MKFan4Life]

He received the cap kit and flyback already from Bob, and I agreed to help him out by installing them since he hasn't used a soldering iron much before.  (not that I'm a guru, either)  The chassis should be on it's way to me with the new parts, and I hope it fixes the issues.

[RejectedManiac]

O alright. Didn't see him mention that it was ordered. I'd check that HOT while your at it. By the way I would package thos puppies good. Just got mine back from repiar that was double boxed and still got cracked in shipment. Out of 140 bucks and a chassis. I am actually looking into those universal chassis from 8liners.com May get a 25" TV tube and give him the info on the tube to get me a universal. I hate Hantarex Polo!

[MKFan4Life]

He contacted me through YouTube about the cap kit and we sorted the details.  Hate to hear that about your chassis!  Dang!  (Eyeballing a Primal Rage pcb in the corner still boxed that came in today...)  Hope it's not cracked, lol.

That sounds like a cool thing to try with the TV tubes.  The guy who was an electronics engineer that I bought my most recent monitor from (WG K7400) was talking to me about how he had started using TV tubes to replace arcade tubes when they were shot.  He gave me a verbal list of the brands to try if I ever wanted to do it, but all I remember is him saying to STAY AWAY from Sony... lol!  I have his email, and I'll drop him a line if I ever end up doing it.

You've had bad luck with Hantarex Polos?  I have a 25" Polo in my MK2 that had a terrible display when I got the cabinet, but after a cap kit it really looks great.  I kept reading how delicate the Polo boards were, but it was my first cap kit installation, and I didn't have much trouble.  That was 2 years ago, and it still looks very nice.

[Kevin Mullins]

Keep an eye out for ANY solder joint that may look like it has a ring around it.
This one looks like it may be for the vertical yoke winding.
(for the collapse issue)

The white horizontal lines may still be the flyback (screen voltage pot) going south.
(but could be a number of things also, like caps, connections, etc)

[MKFan4Life]

I'm going to first inspect it for any visible damage and take some pics to assure him it arrived safely from UPS.  Then I'll make a point to note any questionable joints and reflow them.  I am sure even if I reflowed a suspicious joint and it seemed to fix the issue, he's still wanting me to install the kit and the new flyback.  I'm hopeful it will turn out nicely.

And I'll make a point to check the HOT.

Wish me luck... 

[adidas1984x]

Good luck my friend I am so ready for it to be back in action
thank you so much for all the help