No yoke from Ram Controls

[WareWolF]

Well I have been patient long enough.  Dave Adams has been promising me a yoke for months on end.  BUY AT YOUR OWN RISK from ram controls.

[mytymaus007]

let us know if you get it it by the holidays HOHOHO

[WareWolF]

not likely...  already been thru last years holidays.   I just checked my paypal history and it was ordered 6/27/2009.

[releasedtruth]

And you've waited that long without taking action???

[nick3092]

If it makes you feel better, I ordered 10/09. Got it 8/10, but with a damaged wiring harness. Then I had to send back at my own expense. And now he's not sure when he will have better packing material.

He'll send it again, packed the same. But why would I take the chance sending getting it damaged again and sending it back at my own expense again?

He usually responds to pm's at klov. But he some times still doesnt respond and claims his "e-mail" is broken. Apparently the unread message indicator when he logs into klov is broken too.

[WareWolF]

If you search the threads you will find that I have had numerous promises from dave that the issue would be resolved for months now.  I have given him absolutely every benefit of the doubt, but calling him out seems to be the only way to get him to respond.  He of course is now claiming he will send me the yoke or a refund immediately, so I will let you know what happens this week.

[WareWolF]

nick3092-tell him to take it to a UPS or Fedex store and have them pack it, if it is damaged they will refund you money.

[Malenko]

dont use spacing to bypass the word filter. its there for a reason. you can type --cream-filled twinkie-- and I can read it, because I chose to turn the filter off.

[releasedtruth]

I do love a good --cream-filled twinkie--. They make the world go 'round. I can't tolerate 2 weeks delay, let alone 1 year.

[FrizzleFried]

...FREE RAM stuff coming in 3...2...1...

[nick3092]

Dave emailed me today and said he still doesn't have the custom padding, but he's going to send it again with some additional padding. Hopefully it makes it in one piece.

[JustMichael]

nick3092-tell him to take it to a UPS or Fedex store and have them pack it, if it is damaged they will refund you money.

 

Even I know if I don't have the right box or right packing material I can take it to them and they will pack and ship it for a fee and I hardly ever ship anything.  They even give you a tracking number right away.

[meherenow]

I have the same problem with Dave and I am still waiting, I'm in the UK and he just keeps making empty promises - last contact I have with him was nearly 3 weeks ago where he said he was going to pack it off via UPS as the USPS kept returning it to him??!?  I also paid him for the USB lead which he said he would refund me and chuck the lead in for free.

I too have checked my PayPal history and I paid him on 27th June 2009 as well.  Strange.

Did you ever get your yoke/refund?

[Cananas]

Yep. Same Here. Ordered  a yoke and decal on December 30th (when "it's shipping"). Also ordered usb interface on April.

Still waiting. He didn't answer my last PM on KLOV forum. Waiting he ship my order via UPS.

[LeedsFan]

I was gonna order one of these yokes until I read these recent threads.

What kind of protection do you have if you pay by PayPal? If you were to get an email from RAM Controls stating that they have an item ready to ship and can provide tracking number within 3 days of payment, can you issue a complaint and get a refund if that tracking info is not provided in that time? I'm prepared to take a chance providing I know I have payment protection. I'm not prepared to wait weeks (never mind months) for a ~$250 order.

[JustMichael]

I'm not prepared to wait weeks (never mind months) for a ~$250 order.

Ummm.... from what others have posted on here the time is actually in YEARS!

Sorry if I offend anyone but it is a nasty wet day out and I feel like climbing on to my

From all the posts I have seen here and at KLOV, Dave is NOT a reputable vendor, PERIOD!  He has taken people's money and then he has lied to sooo many people sooo many times I bet even he has lost count of how many times he's lied.  If he truly wanted to ship the yokes out he could easily ship them all out tomorrow!  All he would have to do is walk into a UPS or FedEx store with NO boxes and NO packing foam, just bring in the bare yokes.  He would hand the yokes to the staff and they would box them up and ship them off for a reasonable fee.  They will even provide him with a tracking number IMMEDIATELY for each yoke shipped!  I have had both places pack and ship glass stuff several times and never had a package arrive damaged and I am quite sure a star wars yoke is more durable than the glass stuff I shipped.

Now for my personal thoughts about the star wars yoke situation:

I personally believe that Dave doesn't have any star wars yokes to ship and has already spent your money so he can't buy anymore parts to make them.  Why else would he need YEARS to ship star wars yokes out(apparently some people's yokes still haven't shipped yet)?  Some people here even told Dave to just ship the yoke parts to them and they would assemble the yoke themselves.  Some people have even offered to assemble the yokes for him to help him out.  One slight problem though, you can't assemble or ship parts if you don't have any.  Honestly I still don't understand why it seems like nobody has called in law enforcement to handle this whole matter.  Since this is interstate, I wonder if the FBI would be interested in him?

[LeedsFan]

Such a shame    the yokes do look awesome and we know Havoc got one. Is that the only confirmed yoke shipped to a customer?   lol

[FrizzleFried]

Dave...Dave...Dave...Dave...Dave...

This is the reason why the term "The RAM Effect" is being thrown around at KLOV.   Thanks Dave!  I'm sure ALL the vendors appreciate it.

[nick3092]

Dave did eventually replace the damaged yoke. But when I got it, there was a decent sized chip out of the powder coating on one of the handles.  He was going to send me a new handle like 2 months ago. Needless to say he is no longer responding to emails and I have no replacement handle. And I've been too lazy to go try klov.

The best part is he blamed UPS. Despite the boxes arriving in like new condition. I tend to think the yokes were damaged when he shipped them.

[Hoopz]

Since this is interstate, I wonder if the FBI would be interested in him?

Get kenmelk involved.  He worked for the FBI and was going after Harpal (or was it Christian/Slikstik?).

 

[Havok]

Such a shame    the yokes do look awesome and we know Havoc got one. Is that the only confirmed yoke shipped to a customer?   lol

There are quite a few confirmed customers that got theirs. Unfortunately, there seems to be quite a few that still haven't. It's the curse of the yoke - they are mostly made from unobtainium.

[nexusmtz]

I "almost" feel better knowing that I'm not the only one still waiting. Ordered/Paid Jan 2, 2010.

[VanillaGorilla]

wow.  dont throw out the baby with the bathwater. I had probably the best vendor service ever from Dave. free next day shipping to boot. I WILL order again. Sorry for you guys that got in early and had your funds tied up. I'd be pissed too I guess. No one likes to feel lied to, and I'd guess Dave has more than a little regret about how the whole situation too. I hope this all gets worked out amicably. I'd hate to lose him as a resource. He is providing a one of a kind line of products... I would speculate that a bit of perfectionism and a ton of pride have prevented the timely delivery of less than perfect yokes. For those frustrated from waiting, is he refusing refunds on these?

[meherenow]

wow.   dont throw out the baby with the bathwater. I had probably the best vendor service ever from Dave. free next day shipping to boot. I WILL order again. Sorry for you guys that got in early and had your funds tied up. I'd be pissed too I guess. No one likes to feel lied to, and I'd guess Dave has more than a little regret about how the whole situation too. I hope this all gets worked out amicably. I'd hate to lose him as a resource. He is providing a one of a kind line of products... I would speculate that a bit of perfectionism and a ton of pride have prevented the timely delivery of less than perfect yokes. For those frustrated from waiting, is he refusing refunds on these?

I'm not after a refund (yet), I just want my yoke that I paid for upfront last June in good faith!  Surely I should have been one of the first in line to get my yoke, I preordered pretty much straight away after he started taking PayPal.

It's the constant broken promises that piss me off the most - he has posted the yoke twice he says, says he will send me a tracking number and then I don't hear anything for weeks, he "says" he has problems with his email and that he has replied to me, yet not one other person or company I deal with on that email address has ever had any problems with my incoming or outgoing mail.  I accuse him of ignoring me and he goes on to blame the USPS (because I am in the UK) - says he has (and I quote this verbatim from his email) "plenty of yokes in stock, so I can ship one to you on Monday" via UPS and that was 3 weeks ago, no followup email and no tracking number, and now no reply so far to an email I sent him yesterday.


Heres what I am up against - he sent me this on the 3rd of May 2010....

"Just wanted to followup today to let you know to watch for your yoke.  The last batch includes yours, so you should have it shortly.

Have a great week!!

Dave"


Excellent news, but I hear nothing more...

until on the 18th of May 2010....


""Just a quick update.  I've been delayed on shipping a few yokes.  Will have information for you shortly.  USB, Yoke, Refund all in the same parcel.

Dave





eh?  I thought mine had been sent out in that last batch, strange...

Now I am patient - but I am also busy, so 7 weeks go by from that last missive...


so fast forward to 7th July 2010

"I've been catching up on yoke orders this week.  I thought I emailed everyone to give them a heads up on the process.  The orders going out this week will conclude all outstanding yoke orders, I believe.  I know for a fact that your order is in this lot as I recall seeing your name on one of the labels.

Talk to you soon.

Dave"



Good, my name is on a label, so I will get this yoke that he already dispatched back in May!





More to-ing and fro-ing later, 1st August 2010 -


"I shipped a heap of yoke controllers this last week, including every single remaining foreign order.  I know that your order was included in this last "push" to get everything done.  I can give you specific details on Monday.

I hope you enjoy the yoke controller. :-)

Have a great weekend."



Success, my yoke is shipped (again) and I await the tracking details with baited breath.



But alas no, this is where the problems start with the USPS returning my parcel to him, but what am I to believe?  He has never sent me ANY tracking info, and originally my yoke had been shipped in May?




I'm really at the end of my tether now - nearly 17 months later and nothing - If I don't have my yoke soon I will ask for a refund, and if I don't get either what am I supposed to make of Dave.

Are you reading this Dave?  What am I supposed to make of you?

[Daviea]

Well guys, it looks like I still have a few yoke orders to clear up.  I know that there's an issue with overseas orders, but I have a plan to get around that.

Anyone who has a pending yoke order with me, please email me at daviea@ca.rr.com and I will take care of it.  I'm very sorry for the extended wait.

Nick - you should have that handle piece in your hands today.  I don't ship these yokes already damaged, come on.  I know you guys can get upset with me, but let's still be reasonable.  Sure, I take awhile to get things squared away, but that's all it is - me being SLOW.  All the conspiracy theories....give it a rest already.

Thanks

Dave

P.S.  Friz, thank you for alerting me to this thread!!

[Hoopz]

Why should anyone with a pending order send you an email?  Hell, most of the time, you say you didn't get emails from people anyway.  Don't you have a record of those you have taken money from but not shipped?

[meherenow]

Well guys, it looks like I still have a few yoke orders to clear up.  I know that there's an issue with overseas orders, but I have a plan to get around that.

Anyone who has a pending yoke order with me, please email me at daviea@ca.rr.com and I will take care of it.  I'm very sorry for the extended wait.

Nick - you should have that handle piece in your hands today.  I don't ship these yokes already damaged, come on.  I know you guys can get upset with me, but let's still be reasonable.  Sure, I take awhile to get things squared away, but that's all it is - me being SLOW.  All the conspiracy theories....give it a rest already.

Thanks

Dave

P.S.  Friz, thank you for alerting me to this thread!!

Well Dave, I'll hold you to what you have said in your email to me I have just received in the last hour, that you will have news for me on Monday.....  of course, you have said this before on numerous occasions and what I just cannot understand is that you say you are "going to try and get this small batch built today and shipped today if at all possible" - I thought you had already tried to ship mine a couple of times and they had been returned - why would you need to build mine again? 

I'm afraid you bring these so called "conspiracy theories" on yourself!

In any case, this is definately last chance saloon for me, you've had my money for nearly 17 months now, and don't forget my USB lead I also paid you for that you promised me a refund on.

[JustMichael]

Anyone who has a pending yoke order with me, please email me at daviea@ca.rr.com and I will take care of it.  I'm very sorry for the extended wait.

Forgive me but what kind of "company" doesn't know what orders they have to fill yet??

Nick - you should have that handle piece in your hands today.

I wonder if this translates into shipping it in April of 2011?

I know you guys can get upset with me, but let's still be reasonable.  Sure, I take awhile to get things squared away, but that's all it is - me being SLOW.  All the conspiracy theories....give it a rest already.

Be reasonable??  Any "reasonable" company ships your order within a few days of receiving payment!  They do not lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and then finally ship the product the following year or even later but only if you are one of the lucky few otherwise you are asked to contact them!

Slow is taking 4-6 weeks to ship something NOT 18+ months!

Conspiracy theories?  I see no conspiracy just what I consider to be a con artist.

Dave, simply put your actions thus far have shown that you are a unreliable and dishonest vendor and believe it or not it shows.  Why should people order products from you if you collect their money but don't ship the products they ordered?  Ahhh yes, that old saying "A fool and his money are soon parted."  Sorry Dave but I'm no fool.

[Daviea]

All I can do is address each issue as they come up.  I'll do that and hope it smooths things over.  I'm not in this hobby for the drama, I just want to enjoy it like everyone else and help out by making cool parts nobody else can/will.  I expect this subject to be closed shortly.  Thanks for your interest.

[FrizzleFried]

Dave...

Just wondering...

DO YOU have a list of yokes you owe people or are you just hoping that people who've sent you dough but got nothing for it eventually emails you or posts on BYOAC or KLOV?

I mean,  how can you NOT know EXACTLY who you owe yokes to... this is a serious question Dave...

PS:  Since you evidently didn't take names down or something... you owe me a yoke too.  Remember that $250 I sent you back in October of 2009? *



* this is not serious

[Daviea]

Friz,

I know you're just fanning the flames and I really don't get it.  But, anyway....  No, that's not the point at all.  I know who paid and I know who I've shipped to.  In fact, I've shipped out a massive number of yokes, yet it seems that on occasion someone says they didn't get theirs even though it has shipped.  I am aware of a few shipments that have been problematic, but my request I made is to potentially weed out anymore situations like this before they turn into a problem.  I want the yoke situation behind me, so please stop picking apart my posts.  I'm trying to END this.

Dave

Dave...

Just wondering...

DO YOU have a list of yokes you owe people or are you just hoping that people who've sent you dough but got nothing for it eventually emails you or posts on BYOAC or KLOV?

I mean,  how can you NOT know EXACTLY who you owe yokes to... this is a serious question Dave...

PS:  Since you evidently didn't take names down or something... you owe me a yoke too.  Remember that $250 I sent you back in October of 2009? *



* this is not serious

[FrizzleFried]

I'm just absolutely amazed that someone as "successful" as you claim to be in your "real world job" can "fail" in your duties as a vendor over and over and over for so so so long.  Dave... i don't think you could manage your way out of a kindergarten halloween corn maze.

I'm done piling on... you're doing a good enough job yourself.

[mytymaus007]

Friz,

I know you're just fanning the flames and I really don't get it.  But, anyway....  No, that's not the point at all.  I know who paid and I know who I've shipped to.  In fact, I've shipped out a massive number of yokes, yet it seems that on occasion someone says they didn't get theirs even though it has shipped.  I am aware of a few shipments that have been problematic, but my request I made is to potentially weed out anymore situations like this before they turn into a problem.  I want the yoke situation behind me, so please stop picking apart my posts.  I'm trying to END this.

Dave

Dave...

Just wondering...

DO YOU have a list of yokes you owe people or are you just hoping that people who've sent you dough but got nothing for it eventually emails you or posts on BYOAC or KLOV?

I mean,  how can you NOT know EXACTLY who you owe yokes to... this is a serious question Dave...

PS:  Since you evidently didn't take names down or something... you owe me a yoke too.  Remember that $250 I sent you back in October of 2009? *



* this is not serious

 Dave if order a yoke today Do you  think i will get it it time for Christmas

thanks

[Daviea]

 Dave if order a yoke today Do you  think i will get it it time for Christmas

thanks

If you ordered a yoke today, you'd have it by Wed/Thur of this coming week.

Dave

Edit:  taking into account that there is a holiday this coming week, that delivery time may increase by 2-3 business days.

[JustMichael]

 Dave if order a yoke today Do you  think i will get it it time for Christmas

thanks

If you ordered a yoke today, you'd have it by Wed/Thur of this coming week.

Dave

Edit:  taking into account that there is a holiday this coming week, that delivery time may increase by 2-3 business days.

Ya right....   

You have orders that haven't been filled in YEARS and you actually expect someone to believe they will have their Star Wars yoke in about 1 week?  Dave, I don't know what you have been smoking but it must be some pretty good $#!T to F-up your mind like that!

[FrizzleFried]

I have little doubt he'd get the yoke to him in a week... of course he'd push him to the front of the line... in front of the countless folks he evidently doesn't even KNOW he still owes yokes to.

But I know... I know... it's UPS's fault... or USPS's... or FedEx... or the weather... hell,  I am sure GOD had a hand in some of these yokes mysteriously disappearing.  ANYONE but Dave... ANYONE.

[opt2not]

Dave, you should just suspend taking new orders till the backlog is cleared up. Doesn't help the workload if things keep getting stockpiled. If your not doing this for the cash, then you shouldn't need to worry about losing the profit. Rep as a vendor is worth more. Just some friendly advice from someone who understands service delays.

[Daviea]

Hey Friz,

Slow morning? :-)  I thought you were done piling on, buddy??  LOL  Ahh, I know you can't help yourself.  Addictive, isn't it?  Nothing like a good roasting Saturday morning!!  And we all know that there's nothing tastier than roasted Dave!! HAHA

Listen, I've already admitted that I have trouble with shipping, especially those overseas orders.  Who wants to pay $80+ to ship UPS (with REAL tracking)?  Nobody!  In the end, I cough it up to ship UPS and the yokes arrive.  I am fully aware of the very few orders I need to resolve and I'll take care of it.  End of story, really.

GOD had no part in this, btw.  It was the Devil!!

Dave

I have little doubt he'd get the yoke to him in a week... of course he'd push him to the front of the line... in front of the countless folks he evidently doesn't even KNOW he still owes yokes to.

But I know... I know... it's UPS's fault... or USPS's... or FedEx... or the weather... hell,  I am sure GOD had a hand in some of these yokes mysteriously disappearing.  ANYONE but Dave... ANYONE.

[Daviea]

There really isn't a "backlog" - it's just a few people who I've had trouble shipping to, nothing more nothing less.  In the past, there was a hella backlog that was WELL documented, but the entire backlog was taken care of.  Bottom line is that I need to resolve a few shipping issues (which I will) and this thread loses it's teeth.

Dave

Dave, you should just suspend taking new orders till the backlog is cleared up. Doesn't help the workload if things keep getting stockpiled. If your not doing this for the cash, then you shouldn't need to worry about losing the profit. Rep as a vendor is worth more. Just some friendly advice from someone who understands service delays.

[Daviea]

Not meaning to distract the thread, but I just came up with a great idea for a t-shirt that involves "RAM Effect" and the "roasting" concept.... LOL  I'll flesh out that idea and present it later.  Yes, I can laugh at myself.  :-)

Dave

[Xiaou2]

All sounds like more excuses to me.

 Personally, I have a hard time telling anyone a lie.  To me, its very disrespectful.
And to have you make light of it, only makes that disrespect even worse.

 The BS and lies only make it feel very unsafe to order from you... even If you are
the only source for a part.

 Is this how your mother raised you?  Telling you lie after lie, broken promises..etc?  Is that why you feel its OK to do it to others?

 If I had business troubles, with a known delay of time in sight... Id email the customers the truth, and ask if there was to be a refund asap.  If people had any problems, I wouldnt lie about it.  Id be honest and direct.  People respect that... and they would return for repeat business once things are rolling again.

 I believe you would probably have 5x the orders you currently get, if people trusted you more.  And that trust is flushed down the drain, once you decide to tell a lie & shove some BS down peoples throats.

 As for tracking and insurance.. people are more than willing to pay the extra money. 
Its pretty much standard practice anywhere you order from on the net.

[Hoopz]

All sounds like more excuses to me.

 Personally, I have a hard time telling anyone a lie.  To me, its very disrespectful.
And to have you make light of it, only makes that disrespect even worse.

 The BS and lies only make it feel very unsafe to order from you... even If you are
the only source for a part.

 Is this how your mother raised you?  Telling you lie after lie, broken promises..etc?  Is that why you feel its OK to do it to others?

 If I had business troubles, with a known delay of time in sight... Id email the customers the truth, and ask if there was to be a refund asap.  If people had any problems, I wouldnt lie about it.  Id be honest and direct.  People respect that... and they would return for repeat business once things are rolling again.

 I believe you would probably have 5x the orders you currently get, if people trusted you more.  And that trust is flushed down the drain, once you decide to tell a lie & shove some BS down peoples throats.

 As for tracking and insurance.. people are more than willing to pay the extra money. 
Its pretty much standard practice anywhere you order from on the net.

Spot on except maybe he'd get more than 5x the orders.  I know I won't buy from him until this gets fixed.  I think a lot of people feel that way too.

[Havok]

Spot on except maybe he'd get more than 5x the orders.  I know I won't buy from him until this gets fixed.  I think a lot of people feel that way too.

I'd like to put in a pre-order for a Ram Effect t-shirt!

[pinballwizard79]

I really want to buy one of these for a nice little table top auxiliary control panel that I could pull out & plug into my USB hub on the arcade when the SW bug hits me.

The problem is all I hear are complaints about people who paid for the item forever ago & still have yet to receive their part. Its not just one person on a rant, there are many people with the same problem. How does Randy & Andy manage to ship parts all over in less than a year but Ram cannot? Just do a search on this forum to see all the other people upset.

Seems like the safest way to obtain this part is to talk a fellow BYOAC member out of the one they received  I will put in a nice order if I can get the item next week & pay for it later.

[meherenow]

Not meaning to distract the thread, but I just came up with a great idea for a t-shirt that involves "RAM Effect" and the "roasting" concept.... LOL  I'll flesh out that idea and present it later.  Yes, I can laugh at myself.  :-)

Dave

I'm glad you find it all funny Dave - I don't.

I don't find it funny that you leave me hanging on for weeks and weeks on end with no contact about my paid up front for yoke and USB lead.  Those weeks and weeks at a time (in between your sporadic broken promises) that add up to SEVENTEEN MONTHS of good natured patience which you don't deserve.   

Laugh that one up.

[SammyWI]

I really want to buy one of these for a nice little table top auxiliary control panel that I could pull out & plug into my USB hub on the arcade when the SW bug hits me.

The problem is all I hear are complaints about people who paid for the item forever ago & still have yet to receive their part. Its not just one person on a rant, there are many people with the same problem. How does Randy & Andy manage to ship parts all over in less than a year but Ram cannot? Just do a search on this forum to see all the other people upset.

Seems like the safest way to obtain this part is to talk a fellow BYOAC member out of the one they received  I will put in a nice order if I can get the item next week & pay for it later.

Yup.  I'd love to pick up one of these units, but I don't have any faith that I'd actually receive the order.  At all. 

[VanillaGorilla]

Ya know, Star Wars yokes are not necessarily like hens teeth, they come up on ebay pretty regularly... If you dont want to wait for a back order, you are ENTITLED to ask for a refund. It almost seems like some of you want to hold the guy hostage or something, its kinda creepy.

Just ask for your money back if you don't want to wait for your order to be filled, and take your purchase elsewhere. Quit bitching. BTW, Home Depot always has PVC fittings in stock, you could just make your own

It always sucks when the marketplace has only one supplier of a particular part or product, because that takes the power away from the consumer to get the best price/customer service.

I believe Dave started doing this at his leisure, for his pleasure. I credit the guy for continuing to offer these items to the public, with all of the flak he has had to take from the vocal minority who did not receive their products in a timely fashion, or as they expected to receive them. I know I couldn't put up with all the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---, thats for sure.

When he does supply said part, the consensus seems to be that its quality EXCEEDS the OEM it is replacing. Havok?

This reminds me of when I was in the auto restoration/ body repair business a decade ago. I would get stuck in the middle between a customer who wanted an oddball reproduction part for their vintage/classic vehicle, and a vendor/hobbyist who was making said widget in their spare time, simply for the love of the vehicle (hand-made gauge faces from eastern-europe come to mind). My standard policy in this situation, when asked the question "When will it be ready?", was "When its ready. There is only one known supplier of this part.  If you are not prepared to wait at the mercy of this vendor, I would suggest examining the used parts marketplace/car shows/junkyards."

This sounds like the same situation. You cant have it both ways. If you dont want to wait, DONT WAIT. ASK FOR YOUR MONEY BACK AND SHOP ELSEWHERE. If you want to wait, sit tight, and shut up. You're lucky to have access to a BRAND NEW yoke. Do you know how many known Star Wars cabinets are reported in existence? GGDB says 126!!! Lets be generous and say there are ten times as many still out there. (only 12,695 were EVER made) Why should anyone care about making these? Who could run a sustainable business selling these when the purchasing pool is so small as to be non-existent by most business standards? No-one else did until Dave came along. If Star Wars is your thing, and you're the church-going type, you should be THANKING JESUS on Sundays that Dave does this as a hobby.  Be happy you can get one at all, and stop trashing him and his SIDE BUSINESS.

[Xiaou2]

The people that order didnt have as much as problem with waiting, as they do with all the Lies and BS.

If your an honest and respectful person, you come right out and say things lie

"your order is estimated to take another 2 months at current build progress... IF progress remains steady"

Not:  Its shipping out tomorrow, and will be there in a week.
then: UPS lost it.
then: There was a chip on the handle so we have to change it
then: it will be ship out once we build a packing machine
then: it was about to ship out, but the dog ate it.

 People do this to string you along.  But you cant string people along like this and expect no negative response.  Its not right Period.

[pinballwizard79]

Gorilla I think if Dave said "in 17 months I will ship your item" people would have asked for a refund or not ordered at all. You can act all poor poor Dave if you want but he Eff'd over people. This isnt a case of impatient people, this is a case of YEARS going by, months between email responses of lies & broken promises.

Stop being an enabler!

Instead they wait a month for a reply stating that the item is in transit. A month later its another promise, a month & a half later its another promise. Just enough people receive the yoke & talk about it here & elsewhere to give the victims hope.

This is no different than slickstick, the same warning signs are present.

[meherenow]

Ya know, Star Wars yokes are not necessarily like hens teeth, they come up on ebay pretty regularly... If you dont want to wait for a back order, you are ENTITLED to ask for a refund. It almost seems like some of you want to hold the guy hostage or something, its kinda creepy.

Just ask for your money back if you don't want to wait for your order to be filled, and take your purchase elsewhere. Quit bitching. BTW, Home Depot always has PVC fittings in stock, you could just make your own

It always sucks when the marketplace has only one supplier of a particular part or product, because that takes the power away from the consumer to get the best price/customer service.

I believe Dave started doing this at his leisure, for his pleasure. I credit the guy for continuing to offer these items to the public, with all of the flak he has had to take from the vocal minority who did not receive their products in a timely fashion, or as they expected to receive them. I know I couldn't put up with all the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---, thats for sure.

When he does supply said part, the consensus seems to be that its quality EXCEEDS the OEM it is replacing. Havok?

This reminds me of when I was in the auto restoration/ body repair business a decade ago. I would get stuck in the middle between a customer who wanted an oddball reproduction part for their vintage/classic vehicle, and a vendor/hobbyist who was making said widget in their spare time, simply for the love of the vehicle (hand-made gauge faces from eastern-europe come to mind). My standard policy in this situation, when asked the question "When will it be ready?", was "When its ready. There is only one known supplier of this part.  If you are not prepared to wait at the mercy of this vendor, I would suggest examining the used parts marketplace/car shows/junkyards."

This sounds like the same situation. You cant have it both ways. If you dont want to wait, DONT WAIT. ASK FOR YOUR MONEY BACK AND SHOP ELSEWHERE. If you want to wait, sit tight, and shut up. You're lucky to have access to a BRAND NEW yoke. Do you know how many known Star Wars cabinets are reported in existence? GGDB says 126!!! Lets be generous and say there are ten times as many still out there. (only 12,695 were EVER made) Why should anyone care about making these? Who could run a sustainable business selling these when the purchasing pool is so small as to be non-existent by most business standards? No-one else did until Dave came along. If Star Wars is your thing, and you're the church-going type, you should be THANKING JESUS on Sundays that Dave does this as a hobby.  Be happy you can get one at all, and stop trashing him and his SIDE BUSINESS.

I have kept my mouth shut for 17 months so why shouldn't I now shout it from the rooftops - and as for a "side business", his website comes across as a BUSINESS - not a hobby shop!  He talks about "our staff" - is there any more than just Dave?

Other people have their yoke, those that paid for it long after me, so why should I not feel aggreived at being fobbed off?

In fact, did you actually read my post earlier where I reproduce the email wisdom of Dave?

[pinballwizard79]

If Star Wars is your thing, and you're the church-going type, you should be THANKING JESUS on Sundays that Dave does this as a hobby.  Be happy you can get one at all, and stop trashing him and his SIDE BUSINESS.

Would Jesus cash a check & not send out a product after a year & a half of lies?

[Hoopz]

I've said it before but when you start charging money for your time, let alone expenses, it's a whole new ballgame.  It's no longer a hobby; it's in fact a business.  Say what you will about the niche hobby, but certain vendors deliver their products without all of the lies and b.s.

[VanillaGorilla]

If Star Wars is your thing, and you're the church-going type, you should be THANKING JESUS on Sundays that Dave does this as a hobby.  Be happy you can get one at all, and stop trashing him and his SIDE BUSINESS.

Would Jesus cash a check & not send out a product after a year & a half of lies?

No, he would turn it into loaves and fishes and go have a fish sandwich. At least I think thats what it says in the bible...

[Xiaou2]

It is better to lose a sale being Honest,
than to keep or gain a sale using lies.

[VanillaGorilla]

It is better to lose a sale being Honest,
than to keep or gain a sale using lies.

One word. Microsoft.

[ark_ader]

Huh?

Last I read about his Dave had his yokes in the mail. and we had a review, and it was a good good yoke with a nice USB interface.

Is this thread Dave bashing, or has Dave gone on another long holiday?

I haven't read the whole thread.  Its mostly whine, and I prefer Guinness.  

[JustMichael]

Hey Dave!!
I would like to order a Star Wars yoke.  Could you send it to me in 1-2 weeks and I will pay for it in around 18+ months?   

[Xiaou2]

Microsoft?! Really?!

 Get real.

 Firstly, if you order a product from them... they dont tell you its in the mail, the dog ate it...etc.

[nick3092]

To finish up my story, the replacement handle did arrive Friday.

To sum up the whole experience, I do believe you will EVENTUALLY get your product if you order.  And it is a high quality product.  I have no issues with the product itself, and would recommend the product to anyone who was seriously thinking about getting one.

However, you are probably going to have to do a lot of leg work to keep on Dave to get your yoke.  And you probably are going to have to swallow a few lies.  I was told no less than 3 times that my yoke was shipping "next week".  And I have never heard of someone who supposedly had so many problems with receiving e-mail.  Additionally, I found out that someone who ordered in like March of 2010 got their yoke before at least a month before i got mine (I ordered in Oct 2009).  So either his record keeping on when people ordered is horrible, he doesn't ship orders based on FIFO, or that person just complained louder than I did.

I am not trying to attack Dave personally, or say you shouldn't order from him.  I'm just telling you what my experience was.  And based on what I've read, I'm not the only one who had to deal with the same things I did.  He may have bit off more than he could chew with this project.  And if that was the case, I would have had much more respect for him if he would have said that, instead of feeding me a constant string of lies.

[Dazz]

Man, I really want to order one of these soooo freaking bad.... However, I'm really being put off by all the horror stories. 

[Cananas]

Listen, I've already admitted that I have trouble with shipping, especially those overseas orders.  Who wants to pay $80+ to ship UPS (with REAL tracking)?  Nobody!  In the end, I cough it up to ship UPS and the yokes arrive.  I am fully aware of the very few orders I need to resolve and I'll take care of it.  End of story, really.

Do you really think that after paying more than 300$ people would mind paying 80$+ to ensure the package?

[JustMichael]

Listen, I've already admitted that I have trouble with shipping, especially those overseas orders.  Who wants to pay $80+ to ship UPS (with REAL tracking)?  Nobody!  In the end, I cough it up to ship UPS and the yokes arrive.  I am fully aware of the very few orders I need to resolve and I'll take care of it.  End of story, really.

Why do you think most companies charge seperately for shipping?  Believe it or not people understand it does costs money to ship stuff to them.  Since you are only charging $10 for shipping (to apparently anywhere), this leaves you footing the rest of the shipping beyond the $10.  Considering the size and weight of a Star Wars yoke, I guess this means you spend a lot more on shipping than you would like.

[Vebbo]

Man, I really want to order one of these soooo freaking bad.... However, I'm really being put off by all the horror stories. 

+1

 

[Hoopz]

Man, I really want to order one of these soooo freaking bad.... However, I'm really being put off by all the horror stories. 

+1

 

+10,000

It would make a lot of sense for Davea to sell a large number of these to a reputable vendor on these boards.  If I knew Andy, RandyT, Divemaster127 or someone else that I trust had a large quantity of these, I would pop down the cash immediately. 

I would even pay a markup as insurance to that vendor to make sure that I got what I ordered (in a timely manner being the key part of it).

[Rick]

Listen, I've already admitted that I have trouble with shipping, especially those overseas orders.  Who wants to pay $80+ to ship UPS (with REAL tracking)?  Nobody!

I beg to differ.

Companies produce their items from their facilities, and are either centralized (i.e. one facility for orders, invoicing, production and shipping) or through a decentralized method, whereby they have multiple locations, drop-shipping, etc. etc.  If these companies are a small operation, they look to ship within their local geographic, or else they seek to ship with a recognized shipping company to 'get it there'.  Depending on your area, that could be UPS, FedEx, etc.  (I'm in Canada, and work for Canada's largest Courier Company, Purolator Courier.)  If companies can meet certain shipping minimums, they can get a major discount through these companies, thus making their shipping cheaper.  (Most of these discounts are usually much higher than 50%, btw.)

People pay for shipping every day, and happily, so that they will get their packages in an acceptable amount of time.  I've dealt with many different companies, and can tell you that companies don't take the shipping on themselves - it's not smart business.  In fact, most companies will take the discount provided by the Courier Company, apply their own 'handling charge', usually by way of percentage, to make more money.  It's not unethical - it's part of their business model.  And, of course, paying extra for shipping is understood by all of their customers as 'the cost of doing business'.

Overseas orders can be a bit trickier, but that's when companies get into a distribution model.  They partner with overseas distributors, get an order with a discount for mass quantities, produce the items, get paid, and ship the items to them for distribution.  You work to find a company that will sell your product, and then, you get to ship out bulk shipments of multiple items, at yet another discount.

Everybody recognizes a small company that provides a niche product.  If they're the only company producing the product, they can pretty much get away with whatever they want in the short term.  Of course, they're also usually the company that disappears overnight, once a competitor reverse engineers their product and then starts their own distribution.  I would always deal with a company that says, "our product costs this, and our shipping cost is this for local and this if you're not local" over the ambiguous promise.

[CheffoJeffo]

It would make a lot of sense for Davea to sell a large number of these to a reputable vendor on these boards.  If I knew Andy, RandyT, Divemaster127 or someone else that I trust had a large quantity of these, I would pop down the cash immediately. 

I would even pay a markup as insurance to that vendor to make sure that I got what I ordered (in a timely manner being the key part of it).

Arcadeshop stocks other RAM Controls stuff, so that might be a natural fit and would relieve Dave of the nastiness associated with shipping and those who cheap out on the shipping options.

I believe that the actual assembly of the yokes was also a big time consumer and would guess that some of the shipping delays were driven by an overly ambitious schedule for assembling the parts.

Those who think that everybody is willing to pay for the extra level of assurance with shipping hasn't been in this hobby long enough -- we are, overall, a cheap bunch.

I have had vendors react with shock when I request a more expensive shipping option, because "everybody wants to go cheap".

In my experience, the single biggest problem (other than perhaps cost) with shipping from the US to Canada is tracking and, also in my experience, the best tracking is available from the USPS (who then hand over tracking to Canada Post). BUT, most often buyers select only the cheapest options OR the vendor wants a single tracking source like UPS (who totally suck on the buyer side for international shipments).

[Hoopz]

It would make a lot of sense for Davea to sell a large number of these to a reputable vendor on these boards.  If I knew Andy, RandyT, Divemaster127 or someone else that I trust had a large quantity of these, I would pop down the cash immediately. 

I would even pay a markup as insurance to that vendor to make sure that I got what I ordered (in a timely manner being the key part of it).

Arcadeshop stocks other RAM Controls stuff, so that might be a natural fit and would relieve Dave of the nastiness associated with shipping and those who cheap out on the shipping options.

I believe that the actual assembly of the yokes was also a big time consumer and would guess that some of the shipping delays were driven by an overly ambitious schedule for assembling the parts.

Those who think that everybody is willing to pay for the extra level of assurance with shipping hasn't been in this hobby long enough -- we are, overall, a cheap bunch.

I have had vendors react with shock when I request a more expensive shipping option, because "everybody wants to go cheap".

In my experience, the single biggest problem (other than perhaps cost) with shipping from the US to Canada is tracking and, also in my experience, the best tracking is available from the USPS (who then hand over tracking to Canada Post). BUT, most often buyers select only the cheapest options OR the vendor wants a single tracking source like UPS (who totally suck on the buyer side for international shipments).

If they're cheap, they can roll the dice and pay Dave for a yoke.  Me? I'd rather pay more for the assurance that I would get it delivered.

[Havok]

Dave should really offer an option to "build your own" - he could reduce the price and just pack all the parts up for the end user to assemble. I would think that would aleviate quite a few of the shipping delays because assembling one of these things is very labor intensive. Plus it's more fun for us to put them together...

[JustMichael]

Dave should really offer an option to "build your own" - he could reduce the price and just pack all the parts up for the end user to assemble. I would think that would aleviate quite a few of the shipping delays because assembling one of these things is very labor intensive. Plus it's more fun for us to put them together...

+1.  This idea even goes with the name of the website "Build Your Own Arcade Controls"...   

[Hoopz]

Dave should really offer an option to "build your own" - he could reduce the price and just pack all the parts up for the end user to assemble. I would think that would aleviate quite a few of the shipping delays because assembling one of these things is very labor intensive. Plus it's more fun for us to put them together...

+1.  This idea even goes with the name of the website "Build Your Own Arcade Controls"...   

He'd still have to ship the parts.  If he can't box up one yoke, do you trust him to box up ALL of the parts?

 

[Havok]

Yeah, but I think the issue is that he doesn't have them built yet. We've all seen the pictures of the pile of parts - it's a lot easier to just ship the stuff than spend 2+ hours building it then shipping. Especially when he has multiples to worry about.

[bkenobi]

Yeah, but I think the issue is that he doesn't have them built yet. We've all seen the pictures of the pile of parts - it's a lot easier to just ship the stuff than spend 2+ hours building it then shipping. Especially when he has multiples to worry about.

I have no intention to order a yoke, I've just been reading along.  If it takes 2+ hours to build one, then it will take an end user 2+ hours as well (most likely 4+).  But, if Dave sells 10 yokes in parts, he will likely get 20 questions on how to assemble the thing.  I personally think a DIY option would be good, but I bet it won't save him any time with all the questions he'll surely have to answer.

[Havok]

Cheffo is going to handle all the support requests...

And when he's busy, Xiaou will take care of the rest.

 

[Donkey_Kong]

Yeah, but I think the issue is that he doesn't have them built yet. We've all seen the pictures of the pile of parts - it's a lot easier to just ship the stuff than spend 2+ hours building it then shipping. Especially when he has multiples to worry about.

I have no intention to order a yoke, I've just been reading along.  If it takes 2+ hours to build one, then it will take an end user 2+ hours as well (most likely 4+).  But, if Dave sells 10 yokes in parts, he will likely get 20 questions on how to assemble the thing.  I personally think a DIY option would be good, but I bet it won't save him any time with all the questions he'll surely have to answer.

Make a how to video...

[Vebbo]

Yeah, but I think the issue is that he doesn't have them built yet. We've all seen the pictures of the pile of parts - it's a lot easier to just ship the stuff than spend 2+ hours building it then shipping. Especially when he has multiples to worry about.

I have no intention to order a yoke, I've just been reading along.  If it takes 2+ hours to build one, then it will take an end user 2+ hours as well (most likely 4+).  But, if Dave sells 10 yokes in parts, he will likely get 20 questions on how to assemble the thing.  I personally think a DIY option would be good, but I bet it won't save him any time with all the questions he'll surely have to answer.

Make a how to video...

Yup, thats it. Can't be that hard to do.

[CheffoJeffo]

Cheffo is going to handle all the support requests...

 

'Coz every knows how fast *I* am to respond ...   

[Rick]

'Coz every knows how fast *I* am to respond ...   

That's what she said?

[yotsuya]

Yeah, Do-It-Yourself might be an additional set of headaches.

I'd like to order one as well. We'll see what the year brings.

[CheffoJeffo]

'Coz every knows how fast *I* am to respond ...   

That's what she said?

Not lately ... 

[Rick]

Not lately ... 

Sorry to hear that.  Thread title changed in your honor.

[CheffoJeffo]

Not lately ... 

Sorry to hear that.  Thread title changed in your honor.

 

[RayB]

The idea of building it yourself sounds nice, but then Dave would end up spending even more time in "tech support" for people having issues with assembly. I don't think it would work out.

[Havok]

'Coz every knows how fast *I* am to respond ...   

That's what she said?

Nope - that's what *he* said...

[LeedsFan]

BUT, most often buyers select only the cheapest options OR the vendor wants a single tracking source like UPS (who totally suck on the buyer side for international shipments).

Why do UPS suck for international shipments? I would have thought a big company like UPS with a single tracking source would be the obvious way to go. It may be more expensive but that's the route I'd choose to go. Why do you say this Cheffo?

[CheffoJeffo]

Because they charge brokerage fees that are many times higher than anybody else ... and won't deliver your package unless you agree to pay them.

I've had a $10 item come in by UPS, upon which I get charged $2 in taxes and duties and had to pay UPS $30, ON TOP OF the actual cost of shipping (which was around $9). Same thing shipped by USPS would have cost me $25 less.

Google it ... many class action lawsuits and many complaints.

[LeedsFan]

Because they charge brokerage fees that are many times higher than anybody else ... and won't deliver your package unless you agree to pay them.

I've had a $10 item come in by UPS, upon which I get charged $2 in taxes and duties and had to pay UPS $30, ON TOP OF the actual cost of shipping (which was around $9). Same thing shipped by USPS would have cost me $25 less.

Google it ... many class action lawsuits and many complaints.

What's the $30 charge for? I can understand having to pay duties/taxes because it all depends on what item you have shipped... but surely the shipping cost should include any handling fees?

EDIT:    I did just Google it Cheffo and I found one post on a forum....

"In the UK the brokerage fee is £11, it is worth every penny. If you think what you are getting for that, all paperwork filled in before the plane lands and they are paying the VAT on your behalf.

The logistics of filling in the paper work yourself whilst still using UPS is mad, if they even allow this. You will need to know loads of details down to what was the number of the plane it came in on and where it landed etc."

That post was from 2006 so the fee may be higher now... maybe £15. Then again I suppose this guy is right. I used to work for a freight forwarder and I know how complicated some of this ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- can be.

[meherenow]

Well, good news, my yoke is on the way AND trackable by UPS.

[JustMichael]

Well, good news, my yoke is on the way AND trackable by UPS.

may your box be full of yokee goodness...

[yotsuya]

I told myself I wouldn't order one UNLESS I got a Star Wars cab.

[nexusmtz]

My yoke came today (ordered 1/2/10) and included the USB interface that I ordered in April.

Dave emailed me on Saturday to let me know that I should expect it this week. He then sent a follow-up email with the tracking number last night. It was at my door this morning.

The yoke looks good and the interface was plug and play (Windows 7 x64 sees and calibrates it fine), but I have to make a mount before I can really try it out.

[meherenow]

My yoke came today (ordered 1/2/10) and included the USB interface that I ordered in April.

Dave emailed me on Saturday to let me know that I should expect it this week. He then sent a follow-up email with the tracking number last night. It was at my door this morning.

The yoke looks good and the interface was plug and play (Windows 7 x64 sees and calibrates it fine), but I have to make a mount before I can really try it out.

Ditto, my yoke arrived today, nearly 17 months later, it works a treat with the USB lead on Win 7 x64.

Dave didn't include my promised refund for the USB lead although I will let him off seeing as he posted it UPS (only cost me £18 GBP in import duty (UK) so another plus there)

However I did get a nice surprise with the inclusion of the rather nifty overlay artwork!


So, in eBay style I thought I would offer my ratings....


Item as described                         *****
Communication                             **
Shipping time                               *
Shipping and handling charges        *****


So my saga is at an end, it's just a shame that it basically took what amounts to shaming Dave to get him to give me my goods.

Can't fault the yoke though...

[Havok]

Mine took three years, quit yer whining!

[Rick]

Mine took three years, quit yer whining!

Yoke's on you!

[Havok]

But I have yoke #1 - so there!

 

[atarijaguar]

So by complaining on this forum you were actually able to get your order?

I've e-mailed Dave numerous times but have not heard ANYTHING since April 10, 2010...

My order was placed October 19, 2009.  How is it that people who have ordered after me have already received their orders? Note that this is a US order, not some complex overseas issue with shipping / customs, etc.

So, Dave when will I get my Yoke and USB Interface?  I also ordered a Tempest encoder wheel to replace the one in my tempest machine which got all bent up.

[meherenow]

So by complaining on this forum you were actually able to get your order?

I've e-mailed Dave numerous times but have not heard ANYTHING since April 10, 2010...

My order was placed October 19, 2009.  How is it that people who have ordered after me have already received their orders? Note that this is a US order, not some complex overseas issue with shipping / customs, etc.

So, Dave when will I get my Yoke and USB Interface?  I also ordered a Tempest encoder wheel to replace the one in my tempest machine which got all bent up.

Well I got mine precisely by that method - it took to basically shaming him into getting it together!  Good luck!!

[WareWolF]

You will NOT get a yoke by being nice.  Post a new thread here and at KLOV to keep it near the top so it's visible that Dave is continuing to screw people over on these yokes.

So by complaining on this forum you were actually able to get your order?

I've e-mailed Dave numerous times but have not heard ANYTHING since April 10, 2010...

My order was placed October 19, 2009.  How is it that people who have ordered after me have already received their orders? Note that this is a US order, not some complex overseas issue with shipping / customs, etc.

So, Dave when will I get my Yoke and USB Interface?  I also ordered a Tempest encoder wheel to replace the one in my tempest machine which got all bent up.

[ChadTower]

You know, it's not only yokes that he has "backlogged".  There are tons of other parts that he also can't seem to deliver.  

I'll be very happy if my Major Havoc CP ever shows up.  At this point I thoroughly believe it never will and that he never intended to produce the item for which he gleefully accepted preorders.  It was a complete scam.  The fact that he still has an account here sticks in my craw - known scam artist operating in plain view is bad for forum morale.

[saint]

I've yet to see a single person indicate they were ripped off. I'm not defending his business and don't care to get into a debate on it, but the criteria for a scam artists imho is someone who takes people's money and won't deliver the product or a refund. When people start saying they didn't get their products *and* requested a refund and didn't get one, then the word scam applies. At that point I'll do something different on the forum here...

[ChadTower]

I've yet to see a single person indicate they were ripped off.

Let's test that policy.  Refund request sent.  I paid for the item in July of 2009.  An item advertised in BST on this forum.

[FrizzleFried]

I've yet to see a single person indicate they were ripped off. I'm not defending his business and don't care to get into a debate on it, but the criteria for a scam artists imho is someone who takes people's money and won't deliver the product or a refund. When people start saying they didn't get their products *and* requested a refund and didn't get one, then the word scam applies. At that point I'll do something different on the forum here...

Uh... RIGHT ABOVE YOUR POST Saint...

EDIT: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=162144

Thousands of dollars the guy owes in parts... THOUSANDS... and many have had to resort to Paypal disputes/claims.

If that isn't evidence enough I don't know what is.

[saint]

I've yet to see a single person indicate they were ripped off. I'm not defending his business and don't care to get into a debate on it, but the criteria for a scam artists imho is someone who takes people's money and won't deliver the product or a refund. When people start saying they didn't get their products *and* requested a refund and didn't get one, then the word scam applies. At that point I'll do something different on the forum here...

Uh... RIGHT ABOVE YOUR POST Saint...

EDIT: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=162144

Thousands of dollars the guy owes in parts... THOUSANDS... and many have had to resort to Paypal disputes/claims.

If that isn't evidence enough I don't know what is.

Ripped off means didn't get product and didn't get refund, to me. I concur ordering from Dave is dicey and likely to be a multi-year proposition, and I don't know that I'd order from him unfortunately. I myself asked him if I ordered a yoke when I could expect it, got no answer and didn't order.

However, in that entire 10 page thread, there was one single post of a person saying they were waiting for a refund, and that was 4 days of waiting. No one in that thread said they were refused a refund. That single poster hasn't posted an update indicating if he got his refund or was left high and dry.

What do you guys want me to do? If I ban Dave from the forum that cuts off an avenue of communication, which through some persistence has been several users avenue to finally getting their products.

What do you guys want me to do?

[nick3092]

Being one of the people who had difficulty with Dave, I can tell you from experience he is not very active here. Your best bet is to PM him at KLOV and email him. His replies are spotty at best, but if you follow up frequently using these methods, you'll get an answer eventually.

Also, on a side note, despite me asking Dave like 3 times for a PDF of the yoke manual, he has yet to send me one. If anyone who got one would be kind enough to scan a copy of it and send it to me, I would be most appreciative. Thanks!

[FrizzleFried]

What do you guys want me to do?

At the very least he should be banned from the For Sale/Trade forum and should be banned from announcing ANY of his wares here in the general forum.   I smelled that duck YEARS ago and called it... and was called every name in the book...  I hate being right sometimes.


EDIT: BTW...

Paid $1500 on Nov 7th for a large quantity of 6821, 68B21, and 6532 chips.

Edit: 12/19: Escalated to a PP Claim today before the 45 day window closes.

Paypal refunded money for MC control panel.

(our very own Mr. Do! even!)

Paypal dispute opened - I am happy to buy the items once they are ready to ship, in the meantime I have to do this

I decided to just file a Paypal claim before the 45 day window was closed-- ended up getting a refund on two orders of chips totaling $1010.

(clay cowgill)

...etc...etc...etc...

...you may wanna go re-read that thread again.  I guess you don't consider having to convince Paypal to refund your dough as "Dave refusing to refund"?  From my point of view... if you have to dispute a Paypal charge and still get no response... requiring you to file a CLAIM... I call that "refusing to refund"...

[saint]

What do you guys want me to do?

At the very least he should be banned from the For Sale/Trade forum and should be banned from announcing ANY of his wares here in the general forum.   I smelled that duck YEARS ago and called it... and was called every name in the book...  I hate being right sometimes.


EDIT: BTW...

Paid $1500 on Nov 7th for a large quantity of 6821, 68B21, and 6532 chips.

Edit: 12/19: Escalated to a PP Claim today before the 45 day window closes.

...you may wanna go re-read that thread again.

I did. Read every post. We may be splitting hairs here, if they file a paypal claim and get their money back, that's a refund to me. Not a one said they asked for a refund, were denied, and so had to resort to Paypal as a last resort. Perhaps my definition is too narrow...

I think Dave's a poor businessman. It's not clear to me he's a scam artist. I've never hesitated to nuke a scam artist. I think leaving communication channels open for a poor businessman is better for those trying to get their products or money than cutting him off altogether. Am I wrong?  I'd like to hear what people who've done business with him have to say.  (I like hearing from you too you big lug, but you don't have any money invested as far as I know... Neither do I.)

[FrizzleFried]

Your sand box...

[saint]

Your sand box...

Meh, I'll go with the consensus... See what a few more people have to say.

[ChadTower]

saint, do you honestly see an involuntary refund, facilitated by Paypal, as good enough to continue doing business here?  

I agree with Frizz that he should be banned from offering any new sales on this forum until he has made good on every sale he made via this forum.  That should include either all merchandise delivered, or all refunds made of his own free will, or whatever combination gets to 100% complete.  

The way I see it I have been ripped off.  The way you see it I will never be ripped off because there is always a chance he might deliver the item.  It gives the guy an open ended loophole to deliver nothing - which is exactly what he delivers until coerced.

[saint]

saint, do you honestly see an involuntary refund, facilitated by Paypal, as good enough to continue doing business here?  

I agree with Frizz that he should be banned from offering any new sales on this forum until he has made good on every sale he made via this forum.  That should include either all merchandise delivered, or all refunds made of his own free will, or whatever combination gets to 100% complete.  

The way I see it I have been ripped off.  The way you see it I will never be ripped off because there is always a chance he might deliver the item.  It gives the guy an open ended loophole to deliver nothing - which is exactly what he delivers until coerced.

Not sure why this is so difficult but I'll throw it out one more time, then either way I yield to the consensus.

People who have opted for a Paypal dispute didn't indicate if they asked for a refund. If he wasn't given a chance to give a refund before they pulled the trigger, he's a poor businessman, but not necessarily a scammer. If they resorted to PayPal because he refused them a refund he's a scammer. Do you not see this as two different scenarios?

No one has said they've asked for a refund and been denied -- am I wrong?

I used to have a donate button on the website here. Donate via PayPal to the expense of running this site. I had one guy donate a few bucks, then the next day disputed it. I had to go through the PayPal dispute process to refund him. He never once actually contacted me. The whole thing was a bit surreal. Did I scam him?

Chad, have you asked for a refund?

Anyway, I will still go with the consensus... To clarify, the question isn't whether he should continue to do business here. Until he squares things with everyone I don't think he should. The question is whether or not he gets banned, which is what you've asked for I think?

--- saint

[MameMaster!]

Personally-- banning him will get his attention I'm sure.  

I've actually spoken with Dave for an interview I did that appeared in the last issue of GameRoom.

I didn't write about it in the article but I did ask him about the delays. At the time I tried to impress upon him how distressing it is to pay so much money for this stuff and then a total silence when trying to get the product shipped.

Ultimately-- I agree with Saint. He's legit....just not good at the business aspect of what he perceives as a hobby for him in selling these parts.

But, that doesn't excuse sloppy sales. He does make amazing products. My yoke took 4 years (+/-)...and I even had gotten a refund during that time period.
 

[ChadTower]

Chad, have you asked for a refund?

Let's test that policy.  Refund request sent.  I paid for the item in July of 2009.  An item advertised in BST on this forum.

I sent in my request today.

I gave him 18 months.  He told me several times whatever it took to get me to give him more time.  He used the yoke backorders to make me feel bad about bugging him for my order.  He told me he ran into issues with powdercoating.  He told me it was nearly done.  He told me it would be soon.  He told me all the same crap he tells everyone else.  Finally, today, I've had enough with the guy.  I am, as are so many other people, tired of being lied to and strung along.  The only way anyone ever gets their product or their refund from Dave is to call him out publicly.  Well, here we are.

[RobotronNut]

I got my yoke after something like 8 months. I don't think Dave's intention is to take money and deliver nothing. He is obviously passionate about product development and quality, but very poor at business operations. I don't think I'd order from him again, until there is demonstrated improvement in timely delivery, but I agree with Saint that banning him does more harm than good.

[stan2323]

I did not pre-order, order, or buy anything from Dave.  I am not active at KLOV forms so I have not seen any of what has gone on over there.  So my opinion may not carry the same weight as those that had to wait years for a product or refund.

I say banning him would do more to hurt people’s chances to communicate with him.   I would say restrict him to only the main form and do not let him post anything about new products until he has inventory in stock and is shipping.

I would love to buy 1000s of dollars of Dave's stuff but I will not until there is a huge turn around in his business practice or I am in his neighbourhood and I can stop buy and pay him in cash for what I walk out with.

Just my 2 cents.

Stan

[Time Pilot]

Yeah, I dunno. I've been waiting on mine since pre-ordering on April 23, 2007.  It sounds like some people have gotten them and the quality is reported to be quite good.

I've been pinging him and get the usual variety of responses everyone else has.  It is frustrating, but I have not asked for a refund yet.  The most frustrating thing is seeing more recent orders going out before mine.  His last email said my order was mistakenly put in a hold pile. Who knows...

I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective that you would have to be a little loony to take on a project like this, at this level of quality, for this small a market. I think at some level we are lucky he's doing it. I'm not sure someone else would. I don't think his profits from this will be too stellar- which may be why his is spending his time on other efforts.  He may be focusing on keeping the business afloat rather than focusing on a hobby oriented project. Not justifying anything- and I know mostly nothing about Dave's business- just thinking...

It is a bit of money, but I'm not getting too worked up about it. Life is too short and I've had more positives than negatives with this hobby. Also, I'm just going to graft this yoke onto a generic machine- I don't have a sweet SW cab waiting on the final critical component- I can understand how that could be maddening

I would vote for not banning him totally. I'm not sure what good that would really do- he doesn't seem to post much here anyway... I don't think he is malicious or intentionally screwing anyone over...

I do hope I'll get the yoke soon... I do have the perfect little bit of vacation time to get it going... (Ship it Dave!)

just my thoughts... since you asked...  time for some Centipede...
TP

[opt2not]

I haven't ordered from the guy, but IMO:
- Not a scammer, just bad at business and communication.
- Give him a selling-suspension from doing further business until all BYOAC member orders are fulfilled.
- Perhaps submit a complaint to the Better Business Bureau (that'll definitely get his attention).

[gatordad]

I don't think a ban is necessary but I could be wrong..

I have only had 2 experiences with Dave

One selling to him
and the other buying from him

When I sold an item to David his payment was prompt

When I ordered an item from him it took 3 1/2 weeks to receive my items
Not exactly speedy, but not the absurdly long wait times I have read about.

I did not order a yoke but I did have the opportunity to check one out at clmoores house
It's definitely a thing of beauty and better than the original.

That is my experience.

I do think David would benefit from some teenage family or friend helpers.
My son is always looking to make some cash to spend on wii or ps3 games.

Save the money you spend on ups overnight air and do ground instead but decrease the turnaround time to under a week would make most of this go away.

The disappearing acts don't help much either. I think sometimes the lack of communication can be even more frustrating than the actual wait for parts.

Hell, this is a fun hobby to me, but I am speaking from my perspective(my deals with Dave have been small potato's) and I have never laid down thousands in cash for parts, so my opinion would change if I had no communication and no parts in that scenario.

GD

[FrizzleFried]

saint, do you honestly see an involuntary refund, facilitated by Paypal, as good enough to continue doing business here?  

I agree with Frizz that he should be banned from offering any new sales on this forum until he has made good on every sale he made via this forum.  That should include either all merchandise delivered, or all refunds made of his own free will, or whatever combination gets to 100% complete.  

The way I see it I have been ripped off.  The way you see it I will never be ripped off because there is always a chance he might deliver the item.  It gives the guy an open ended loophole to deliver nothing - which is exactly what he delivers until coerced.

Not sure why this is so difficult but I'll throw it out one more time, then either way I yield to the consensus.

People who have opted for a Paypal dispute didn't indicate if they asked for a refund. If he wasn't given a chance to give a refund before they pulled the trigger, he's a poor businessman, but not necessarily a scammer. If they resorted to PayPal because he refused them a refund he's a scammer.

From KLOV:

I'm a little annoyed that Dave has ignored my PMs and emails,[emphasis mine] which were very polite (I never say anything that I wouldn't want to see posted on KLOV ).

I've filed a PayPal claim to get my $265 back, but I hate that it had to go that way.
Reply With Quote

I also had no choice but to file a PP claim to get it in the 45 day window. With no response to my last PM [emphasis mine] and finding info that LL and MC control panels were back to the drawing board. There was no chance I would see these any time soon. I will be happy to buy them when they are actually ready to go out the door as this wasn't supposed to be a presale.

Escalated my order to a PP Claim today before the 45 day window closes.

I'd rather have the chips, but have to do what I need to in order to protect myself. $1500 is a lot of money to my little business to have hanging out in the ether.

(and if you read his prior posts YES...he's tried to contact Dave.)


>QUACK!<

PS: I don't want to see Dave banned.  Just not permitted to sell.  And it would be nice if people would call a duck a duck.  If anyone... ANY ONE else had pulled this ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- they'd have been run out out dodge YEARS ago...

...but I said that before... like 2 years ago.

[Malenko]

Whats done on KLOV isnt whats done here, so its not fair to punish him for whats done there. Anyone who gives chad a hard time is ok in my book, I just wont be buying anything from the guy. I dont think banning him is going to solve anything but some sort of warning to potential consumers should suffice. It IS Caveat Emptor as far as I know.

[HaRuMaN]

Perhaps a custom title is in order...

[FrizzleFried]

Whats done on KLOV isnt whats done here, so its not fair to punish him for whats done there. Anyone who gives chad a hard time is ok in my book, I just wont be buying anything from the guy. I dont think banning him is going to solve anything but some sort of warning to potential consumers should suffice. It IS Caveat Emptor as far as I know.

That there is one of the biggest crocks of [self edit: poo-poo] I've read in quite some time... no offense intended.


If (some other) known scammer hits KLOV,  it would be asinine to not take action here.... and as demonstrated by our very own TIME PILOT (above)... the problem isn't just a KLOV problem...

[VanillaGorilla]

I'm sorry to not see some sort of 'mea culpa' from Dave on the issue in this thread...I think he should have his word in it before any decision is made. I agree, the silence is deafening, but my transaction experience with him was beyond my expectations. He didn't even charge me shipping last I ordered, and my Missile Command rebuild kit was shipped UPS RED so I had it in or under 24 hours...but I've said all of this before..

[opt2not]

Perhaps a custom title is in order...

...and maybe a poll to go along with it?

[LeedsFan]

I bought a yoke from him very recently and the transaction was very smooth and fast. I would have thought that getting out pre-orders would now not be a problem. I can imagine how annoying it must be to have waited for so long for a yoke and then have someone like me get mine so fast. This is the puzzling aspect of it all.

The only thing I did in the transaction that I have never done before is contact Dave first about availability. I explained that I expected a UPS tracking number within 7 days of payment or I would request a refund. And I only did this because of the bad feedback he was getting on these boards. But Dave came through like a champion. I had the yoke within 100 hours or so from paying for it. And I live in Leeds, England.

I'm sitting on the fence on this one. I don't want to say "Don't ban him from trading" because I can clearly see that many other people are still waiting after a very, very long time and that would just annoy you all. I really cannot understand it in all honesty. 

[RayB]

Dave, if you're reading this, this is what you should do starting today:

1. Shut off all orders now. Any Paypal orders still coming through, click REFUND right away and add the note that you're temporarily closed.

2. Dedicate a weekend with no other distractions to:

A) Add a contact form to your website. Have it send to a new email address that you can ensure works and won't need a too-strong spam filter as a result. This ensures people have an avenue to reach you with no "didn't get it" excuses.

B) Organize your remaining order / pre-order list in a spreadsheet updated, checked. Contact any unknowns. Prepare remaining orders.

C) Get friends and family to help with the orders and shipping of the backlog.


Once all orders are caught up on, you'll breathe a sigh of relief. Everyone will be happy. You can then re-open the online store knowing that monkey is off your back.

[JMB]

A) Add a contact form to your website. Have it send to a new email address that you can ensure works and won't need a too-strong spam filter as a result. This ensures people have an avenue to reach you with no "didn't get it" excuses.

The whole "I didn't get the email." thing has bugged me the most of his excuses. If this was the 90's and companies were still connecting to the internet via modem pool I'd  buy some email issues. In this day and age when you can get email practically anywhere on a wide variety of devices it just doesn't fly. That ranks right up there with "the dog ate my homework."

[JustMichael]

Does anyone know where to buy a clue so we can tell Dave where to go shopping?  With the yoke situation, I see two possibilities: either he has no clue who ordered yokes from him or he's hoping they won't say anything and he can pocket the money.  You choose which one to believe.  What other possibility would explain preorders not getting filled while recent orders being filled?

[ChadTower]

Once all orders are caught up on, you'll breathe a sigh of relief. Everyone will be happy. You can then re-open the online store knowing that monkey is off your back.

The guy can supposedly run a successful nonarcade business but can't figure those simple things out that you have suggested?  I don't share the belief that he intends to make good until forced to do so.  Really, what the guy is doing is borderline wire fraud, if all of these nonfulfilled orders are gathered and recorded.  Forget the Better Business Bureau.  You want to get this guy's attention go to the Attorney General in his state.

So far, like so many others, no response to my attempts to get a refund. 

I just don't see how we are allowing this guy to continue to do business here.  Don't want to ban him?  Fine.  At least stop him from taking orders here.  Allowing him to continue taking orders is at best an ambiguous message to BYOAC membership and none of the potential interpretations are positive.

[Malenko]

That there is one of the biggest crocks of [self edit: poo-poo] I've read in quite some time... no offense intended.


If (some other) known scammer hits KLOV,  it would be asinine to not take action here.... and as demonstrated by our very own TIME PILOT (above)... the problem isn't just a KLOV problem...

I said not to ban him I didnt say "Take no action"

[FrizzleFried]

...the KLOV thread is growing...

[saint]

So 9 days with no response to Chad's refund request. I've emailed him asking him to respond in the thread here. Will give it a few days for a response then decide what to do with his account here. What have they done over at KLOV?

[yotsuya]

It's a shame it's come to this. I always wanted to order one of his yokes so I could play Star Wars the way it was intended. Guess it'll never happen.

[ChadTower]

So 9 days with no response to Chad's refund request. I've emailed him asking him to respond in the thread here. Will give it a few days for a response then decide what to do with his account here. What have they done over at KLOV?

Just so it's out there what I bought was a package.  The deal was $100 for the Major Havoc CP.  If you wanted, he'd throw in the roller controller for $75, and I paid $175.  About a year ago I managed to get him to ship the roller controller.  That leaves me with the funds paid for the repro CP that to my knowledge has never been produced for anyone at all.

[saint]

Chad, did you get a refund or are you still out the $100?

[ids]

fwiw, ordered yoke yesterday, got tracking number yesterday  (The "25% off" sale made me do it)

Unfortunately, shipped UPS, so I'll probably get stuck with a stupid customs fee (I truly hate UPS - got a bill from them recently for ~$180 for customs, fuel surcharge, "import freight", and general ---meecrob----baggery)

[Bender]

what 25% off sale?
that might make me do it to

[ids]

Sale is hilighted on their home page http://www.ram-controls.com



So $275 for the yoke, add in the decal, $25, and you're all set.  I added the USB thing too - too lazy to do it cheaper.

[FrizzleFried]

 

 

That's about all I can muster right now...

[ChadTower]

Chad, did you get a refund or are you still out the $100?

No response at all so far to multiple requests via email.

[Bootay]

I am stumped as to why someone would risk spending $300 after reading this thread. Seems like an expensive crap shoot.
Let us know next year if you got your product yet.

[ids]

I am stumped as to why someone would risk spending $300 after reading this thread. Seems like an expensive crap shoot.
Let us know next year if you got your product yet.

There does seem to be some risk, but there are also reports of getting the goods quick.  And the thought of a high quality SW yoke is enough temptation to pull the trigger (esp. when on sale).  Getting a tracking number same day was a huge surprise, as you can imagine.  UPS just delivered (or would have if someone was home), so in effect, I already have it, but still have to wait on UPS doing a retry.  I guess I won this crap shoot.  I hope going forward this becomes the norm.

Chad - sorry to hear about your problems - I really wish he'd resolve that.

[yotsuya]

Just for laughs, I went to the website and put everything a person would need (overlay, USB controller, and Yoke) and the total was under $300. The discount saved $90.

[ids]

The discount saved $90.

That was the clincher for me - when I saw the $90 savings I immediately reached for my wallet.  All the other times I put those items in the cart, my heart sank and I chickened out.

[yotsuya]

Yeah, when you think about it, the discount basically gives you the USB controller and sticker for free.

[FrizzleFried]

I... for one... refuse to buy from someone who's screwing/has screwed/will screw other members here or KLOV.   That and the fact I don't much like ducks... keeps me from spending a dime with him.

...but you go ahead and do what you want.   It's your money.

[yotsuya]

Well, I'm not planning to order, but I wonder if this means Dave has gotten some things straightened out? I just hope he's filled out the outstanding orders first.

[opt2not]

Pay with a credit card and if you don't get a tracking number in a week, zap him with a charge back.  It's not rocket surgery.

Or brain science!

[Bootay]

Pay with a credit card and if you don't get a tracking number in a week, zap him with a charge back.  It's not rocket surgery.

Or brain science!

LOL

IDS: I am glad to hear you got your Yoke that quickly. (overnight?!)

[ids]

overnight?

Indeed, with a border to cross too.  Quite impressed.  I do hope he clears up any outstanding issues and turns things around quickly like this going forward.  Had I not known his history, going from just my own experience, I'd say "highly recommended" - which seems also to apply to the quality of the goods (wish someone was home at the time so I could see for myself ).

Curious - anyone still waiting on a yoke order?

[Bootay]

overnight?

Indeed, with a border to cross too.  Quite impressed.  I do hope he clears up any outstanding issues and turns things around quickly like this going forward.  Had I not known his history, going from just my own experience, I'd say "highly recommended" - which seems also to apply to the quality of the goods (wish someone was home at the time so I could see for myself ).

Curious - anyone still waiting on a yoke order?

That is quite impressive. I never ordered from him so I guess I shouldn't say much about it. I was just judging by other people's experiences. He does sell some awfully tempting products.

[Bender]

Sale is hilighted on their home page http://www.ram-controls.com



So $275 for the yoke, add in the decal, $25, and you're all set.  I added the USB thing too - too lazy to do it cheaper.

I was looking right AT IT... Duh!!

well I just took the leap and ordered the yoke and the sticker which was exactly $300 so it was $235 after the discount, which seems fair to me.... if I ever get one that is

[atarijaguar]

I still have not received my order from October of 2009.  I've e-mailed Dave numerous times, even requested a refund, but have yet to hear back.  It's very disconcerting that he can get a new order out in a matter of days but those of us who pre-ordered are left with all but what would appear to be fraud... Are people who claim to have received orders, just Dave logged in under a false username?

[ids]

I still have not received my order from October of 2009.  I've e-mailed Dave numerous times, even requested a refund, but have yet to hear back.  It's very disconcerting that he can get a new order out in a matter of days but those of us who pre-ordered are left with all but what would appear to be fraud... Are people who claim to have received orders, just Dave logged in under a false username?

Not dave.  Of course, impossible to prove, but....i do feel bad that I got mine next day (sort of) and you've been waiting so long.  I wonder if his record keeping is just so bad that now he has a hard time reconciling who ordered, who paid, who received goods...  He may also have an inbox full of anger that is hard to reconcile with older orders.  If he'd at least refund, you could try again and maybe get it next day    Sorry, waiting so long and seeing other orders fulfilled must suck - not funny.  It really is a rather expensive luxury, so I hope he can resolve these things.  It would be best for him, his customers, and reputation to settle all outstanding issues.  I would guess there are only a few rare fools such as myself willing to risk so much cash for such a specialized device.  And Bender?  really?  Cant you make your own from a 2.5mm stereo jack, an LED, magnets, maybe bend some metal.....    I'm waiting for your tutorial on this. 

Anyway, sorry again, I really hope Dave clears this shi..zle up soon.


DAAAAVE - FIX THIS!

[Time Pilot]

That is quite interesting that a new order is handled so quickly. Still waiting on my April 2007 pre-order. I left a post on the Klov thread which generated a PM from him that he would take care of it immediately. With the ice and snow here in Atlanta we have not had mail delivery in a week. Not sure if UPS is running yet, but I have not received a tracking number, so ... 

TP

[FrizzleFried]

A post by Darin of Phoenixarcade over at KLOV...

Originally Posted by darinjacobs View Post
I just received a copy of a letter that someone got from the State Of California Dept Of Justice which has opened a case on the matter. Furthermore it states the Franchise Tax Board Investigations Bureau and IRS Criminal Investigations units are also involved.

If Dave or one of his associates is reading this, the time to ship products or give refunds is now. They are circling the wagon.

Does Dave strive for Foley status?

[Bender]

Well I got an E-mail back right a way confirming my order and a UPS tracking #, thats not active yet, I ordered late friday so I don't expect it to be active till monday
I'll keep you posted

[Hoopz]

A post by Darin of Phoenixarcade over at KLOV...

Originally Posted by darinjacobs View Post
I just received a copy of a letter that someone got from the State Of California Dept Of Justice which has opened a case on the matter. Furthermore it states the Franchise Tax Board Investigations Bureau and IRS Criminal Investigations units are also involved.

If Dave or one of his associates is reading this, the time to ship products or give refunds is now. They are circling the wagon.

Does Dave strive for Foley status?

Foley, Dave and Christian are of the same ilk.  I wouldn't trust them with being able to deliver a product where my money is involved.  If/when they do (did) deliver, the quality was there but this isn't about quality alone. 

[taylormadelv]

Dave certainly is an interesting character. Yes, the quality of his products is second to none and in many cases, superior to the original, Atari parts. He seems to me, like an "evil genius" that just can't control this "dark side" of his personality. There are times when Dave is accessable and easy to contact and then he dissapears for a month or so and acts like everything is fine.
The Star Wars cockpit sale to the Aussie guy is really disturbing if it's accurate. That's a lot of money to take with nothing delivered, again though, IF this is accurate.

[ids]

Well I got an E-mail back right a way confirming my order and a UPS tracking #, thats not active yet, I ordered late friday so I don't expect it to be active till monday
I'll keep you posted

Did you receive it yet?

I was just looking over mine - the horizontal POT seems effed.  This is kinda weird because that is one seriously heavy duty looking POT.  S--t happens i guess.  I just hope Dave will fire off a new POT to me quickly.  Would be nicer if he did a quick test of goods before shipping.  But given the history, I'm just happy to have the (broken) thing 

[Bender]

man that sucks! I hope you get the replacement pot quickly

The Tracking # I got is still not active
I realize monday was a holiday, but if it doesn't go active today I'm going to pull the funds back from paypal
I hear someone else form this forum is the same situation, quick e-mail w/tracking# but not active yet
I have to say I was encouraged by the quick response but this seems like we're back to "it will ship tomorrow" when it didn't
I don't mind waiting a little, I just wish he didn't say this on friday and then not follow through

 
"Got your order.  It’s already packed up and ready to go.  We just missed today’s window to ship, so it will ship tomorrow.
 
Check paypal for updated tracking/shipping information this evening.
 
Have a great day!!

Dave"

and this minutes later

"UPS Tracking
 
1ZF2997E0141XXXXXX – outta here!
 
Adam"

[ids]

Sounds like you're getting the usual run-around.  I wouldn't blame you if you cancelled.  I cannot fathom how he operates - seems totally random.  He really needs to find some time to clear everything up, ask family or hire some kid to help, whatever it takes.

I wonder; if you cancelled, then put in a new order, rinse and repeat until you get a valid tracking #.... 

[Hoopz]

This thread is really making me contemplate ordering about 10 of these things and then dumping them at a $100 premium on the Buy/Sell/Trade forum with overnight delivery.

Odds of him being able to deliver 10 to you?   

[JMB]

This thread is really making me contemplate ordering about 10 of these things and then dumping them at a $100 premium on the Buy/Sell/Trade forum with overnight delivery.

Odds of him being able to deliver 10 to you?   

0% chance of that.

[JMB]

I would hope that I am wrong but this just sounds like another effort to drum up some quick cash. Have a sale and fill one order right away. Word spreads and a few more people order and they wait.....

[ids]

Yes, one quick sale, but busted POT - device is totally unusable.  Still waiting to hear back about it (sent email late last night).  Might have been a good plan if it was a fully functional yoke.  But others have been waiting years and still wait.  Organizational skills in short supply at Ram Controls.  I hope that's all it is, and not another Christian thing.

[HaRuMaN]

Yes, one quick sale, but busted POT - device is totally unusable.  Still waiting to hear back about it (sent email late last night).  Might have been a good plan if it was a fully functional yoke.  But others have been waiting years and still wait.  Organizational skills in short supply at Ram Controls.  I hope that's all it is, and not another Christian thing.

Can you source the pot on your own?  Mouser, or digikey perhaps?

[ids]

Can you source the pot on your own?  Mouser, or digikey perhaps?

Should be able to.  First I'll give Dave a chance to respond.  Barring that, I hope to find it online.  The POT shows a part number and manufacturer name - hit their website last night (forgot the name already  )  I don't think they did retail, but recall seeing a link for distributors.  I guess this is the worst case (most likely) scenario - buying a POT to replace the defective one.  Not a huge issue, given the $90 saved due to the sale, and the fact that I really don't have a cab to mount it to at the moment.  It is, however, disappointing that I can't jury rig the thing and get some SW going.  That was definitely one of my favourites back in the day.  Wow, KLOV says 1983 - starting to feel old (as if there were no other signs).

I'm also happy it is the horizontal one - very accessible.  The other would require taking the thing apart, and it's using some crazy security type screws (though I probably have the right tools lying around somewhere).

[ChadTower]

A post by Darin of Phoenixarcade over at KLOV...

Originally Posted by darinjacobs View Post
I just received a copy of a letter that someone got from the State Of California Dept Of Justice which has opened a case on the matter. Furthermore it states the Franchise Tax Board Investigations Bureau and IRS Criminal Investigations units are also involved.

If Dave or one of his associates is reading this, the time to ship products or give refunds is now. They are circling the wagon.

Does Dave strive for Foley status?

I'm going to have to find a way in on that. 

[FrizzleFried]

         

[Bender]

I emailed this afternoon. I got a response right away saying that had been dropped off at the UPS store, that it should be on its way and he would look into it, a got a second e-mail a few hours later saying that the tracking should be active soon
I just checked and there is a package in transit so I'm crossing my fingers now

[ids]

sounds like you are getting one - good luck!

still no response to my broken POT email, hope waning fast

Markings are, from top to bottom:
1) some crown like symbol
2) 5k 0845
3) Extended Life
4) P E C
6) Made In Canada

I'll see what google has to say about it, but at first glance nothing obvious - and my lack of expertise in electronics doesnt help either

[Bender]

looks like it should be here today or tomorrow

[zallax]

I ordered mine Sunday.  After looking at an invalid tracking number for days, I sent an e-mail, which I was assured they were late dropping off at store but should arrive the next day.  I sent another e-mail when it did not arrive.  I got a response that there was a problem at the UPS store, but now fixed.  Hours later, my tracking number became valid.  Right now, the package is on the truck "out for delivery" after leaving Ontario, CA (California, not Canada) just yesterday evening.  Now, I hope its just in one piece after hearing all the bad packaging woes.

[korendog]

IDS,
Hit me up with a PM if Dave doesn't get back to you regarding that POT.  I might have a replacement for you. -J

[ids]

IDS,
Hit me up with a PM if Dave doesn't get back to you regarding that POT.  I might have a replacement for you. -J

That's very generous.  Thank you very much for the offer of a potential POT replacement.  Before I bother you with this, I am going to try one more avenue with Dave.  It was actually a friend who placed the order for me - so I'll bug him to nag Dave.  It occurred to me that I may be getting the cold shoulder because there is no correlation on Dave's end between me and a Yoke (a lot of assumptions here).  If that fails, anything you could do would be greatly appreciated.  I will definitely PM if needed - thanks!

Zallax - as far as packaging, mine was packed reasonably well, could not imagine damage in transport.  (my POT problem would not be from shipping)

Zallax/Bender - Hopefully you'll have them soon, and they work.  The quality overall is commendable - this thing should last a lifetime.  I'd not be afraid of having 5 year olds beating on the thing (but if they do, I'd kick their a** just the same).  Only complaint otherwise, is that while the sticker has holes for the screws, they seem a bit small.  Perhaps it's best to remove the screws, apply sticker, then let the screw heads rest over the sticker.  Maybe I missed the memo on this?

I feel really bad for those who have been waiting for so long.  Would love to hear if/when these are resolved.

fwiw, I'm thinking this is the POT manufacturer Dave used: http://www.precisionelectronics.com  I don't think they'd allow purchase of small quantities, however.  If that IS them, and IF the POT was not a custom job, then I'd have to correlate what I have to their part numbers, somehow (need to take a closer look at it, perhaps I'll find a more detailed part#).

Thanks - will keep you posted.

[HaRuMaN]

Digikey sells PEC potentiometers in as low a quantity as 1...  you just need a better part number.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=262965&chp=0&FV=fff40004,fffc0062

You can then narrow the search by selecting the 5K ohm filter

[ids]

Thanks for the link.  I've noticed there is another PEC, an Indian company.  However, the "Made In Canada" on the device makes me think it's the one I linked earlier.  Your digikey link appears to be for the Canadian ones, so with a good part number, I could be in luck.  I'll take a closer look at it later, and failing that, remove it in hopes of finding a number stamped somewhere.  Alternatively, specs might narrow it down (dimensions, etc).

Thanks again to korendog for the offer too.  BYOAC is the best - very supportive, thanks.

[zallax]

According to the pic of the 5K pots on the Ram Controls wiki page http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Ram_Controls, the pots are custom made.  You might not be able to outsource.

[ChadTower]

According to the pic of the 5K pots on the Ram Controls wiki page http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Ram_Controls, the pots are custom made.  You might not be able to outsource.

That statement is based on info from Dave.  He isn't exactly credible here.

[JustMichael]

According to the pic of the 5K pots on the Ram Controls wiki page http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Ram_Controls, the pots are custom made.  You might not be able to outsource.

That statement is based on info from Dave.  He isn't exactly credible here.

Yep Dave and credible parted ways just like the Red Sea (and about as long ago to I bet!)

[Bender]

I ordered mine Sunday.  After looking at an invalid tracking number for days, I sent an e-mail, which I was assured they were late dropping off at store but should arrive the next day.  I sent another e-mail when it did not arrive.  I got a response that there was a problem at the UPS store, but now fixed.  Hours later, my tracking number became valid.  Right now, the package is on the truck "out for delivery" after leaving Ontario, CA (California, not Canada) just yesterday evening.  Now, I hope its just in one piece after hearing all the bad packaging woes.

I got the same exact story about the UPS store. Mine was ordered last friday so it's possible they were dropped off together on mon. or tue. at and there was an issue at the UPS store (or I think they really just went out thursday)

Long story short GOT MINE TODAY! Less than a week to the north east, not bad
the build is awesome, The packing was pretty good, but it did seem possible that if the box was crushed the back gears could be damaged, but the box would have to be pretty abused in transit

I'll fire it up the weekend to make sure everything works

Zallex, get yours?

[zallax]

 

Yep, I got mine today as well!  It is one solid piece of equipment.  I immediately plugged it up with the USB board and tested out the buttons and X and Y axis.  All worked perfectly.  Now, the hard part, I have to figure out how to mount this thing as an add-on to my frankenpanel. 

I am very happy with my purchase.  I highly recommend those who are still waiting to e-mail them some more.  I did twice -- and they were responsive.  Of course, I was using the e-mail from their PayPal account.  Good luck to everyone still waiting (for a shipment or a refund).

[Cananas]

I can't beleive that this guy ships the yokes to people that have ordered it one week ago, and not to the people that ordered the yoke more than one year ago, like my case.

The last weekend, I send him an e-mail and pm at KLOV, without response, of course. In those message I tell him to ship my order (a yoke, starwars decal and USB interface) by UPS before the end of January. After that, I will ask him for a total refund, before my time (and patience) has gone.

[Bender]

I can't beleive that this guy ships the yokes to people that have ordered it one week ago, and not to the people that ordered the yoke more than one year ago, like my case.

The last weekend, I send him an e-mail and pm at KLOV, without response, of course. In those message I tell him to ship my order (a yoke, starwars decal and USB interface) by UPS before the end of January. After that, I will ask him for a total refund, before my time (and patience) has gone.

I've even got a follow up email from Adam to make sure I got the package
I emailed back to ask what the best way for you to contact him is, I had good communication with him and all my emails were responded to in a very timely manner

I hope you get it resolved quickly!

EDIT: Adam got back to he said this:

I’ve just started helping Dave because of the problems he’s had with shipping.  To my knowledge, all of the pre-orders have been shipped.  I’ll ask him about it because I’m more than happy to help with anything he needs to have shipped.  My job has been to watch over all new orders and hand-hold them until confirmed delivery.  If you have any names of pre-orders who are still waiting for their yokes, could you let me know?  I’ll look into the orders right away.
 
Adam

I don't have anybody's name so here is the email I have been contacting them through:

ramtech@ca.rr.com

let us know if you get a response

[Time Pilot]

Thanks Bender!

I just shot him an email. I'll let you know if he responds. Strange that he said all pre-orders were out. I've had emails with Dave in the past week or so about my any-day-now April 2007 pre-order.  Maybe this time...

TP

[atarijaguar]

I just forwarded my pre-order information to this e-mail (Adam?) as well.

This is ridiculous!!!  How can they possibly say all pre-orders have shipped?

Oct. 19, 2009 13:08:37 PDT $260.
Oct. 19 2009 23:05:57 PDT. $30.

I ordered: Star wars Yoke, USB Interface, and tempest encorder wheel.

I placed 2 orders because I forgot to purchase the USB interface the first time.

This should be enough info for them to dig up my order and explain why I don't have it yet!
 

[Time Pilot]

Update: I received an email from Adam a few hours ago confirming my address. I hadn't checked my email, but another email arrived about an hour ago indicating that he had shipped it anyway- overnight with Saturday delivery. A UPS tracking number was attached, but is not yet active.

Very cool if it does arrive. I sent a thank you reply to Adam and he responded that he is now handling shipping and customer service issues.

If you have an outstanding order- give him a shout...

-TP

[Bender]

I'll say Yippee, when the Tracking # is active

[ids]

That new email address is diamond encrusted gold with inlaid platinum!  I received an almost immediate response to my broken POT plea.  Has Dave turned a new leaf and finally hired the help he needs to resolve everything?  Anyone still waiting should try the ramtech email.

Good luck to everyone, I hope all the comparisons to Christian etc can be resolved by everyone getting their goods.

And another thanks to korendog for the offer earlier - i was "this" close to writing a desperate PM --- though we still need to see if a POT arrives 

[Time Pilot]

Yippee. Tracking number is active. 

[atarijaguar]

I e-mailed Adam yesterday, and today I have my yoke!

It also sounded as if he's located the list of outstanding pre-orders!

[Time Pilot]

The yoke has landed! Wow. I must say, this is quite an impressive thing. Stellar work on this Dave. I'll try to get it going later today with the interface I bought from Havok back in July and post some picks.

Adam really came through. The yoke was packed very well.

-TP

[RobotronNut]

email excerpt from Adam at Ram Controls:

I’ve just started helping Dave because of the problems he’s had with shipping. ...

... GOT MINE TODAY! ...

... Yep, I got mine today as well! ...

That new email address is diamond encrusted gold with inlaid platinum!

I e-mailed Adam yesterday, and today I have my yoke!
It also sounded as if he's located the list of outstanding pre-orders!

The yoke has landed! Wow.

Amazing.
So glad to see this finally happening.
So sad that this couldn't have happened years ago.
Here's hoping a new, happy era is dawning....

[Bender]

YIPPEE!!!

2 down how may to go?

This is the e-mail I sent to Adam in response to him checking to see if I had received the yoke
I felt really bad that I gotten mine so quick and there were still some people who pre-ordered, who still didn't/don't have theirs

Adam,

Got it, it looks great!
I'll test it out this weekend!
I have to say that you have been very helpful and responsive
There are some people an the BYOAC and KLOV forums quite upset that they pre-ordered and haven't received them yet, and I can't help feeling a little guilty.
What is the best way for them to contact you to resolve the problems?
Such a great product, hate to see some miscommunication tarnish all that hard work


heres to Adam and everyone getting there pre-orders!!!!

[Cananas]

I have send an e-mail to Adam, now. Let's wait what happens (Crossed fingers).

[Bender]

well I have technical question
Is every one getting theirs with the 5k pots and buying the USB adapter?
It looks like he he offers 120k pots made for MAME
I wanted to hook mine up to an old A-Pac (version 1, I had laying around so I thought I'd save $60) do I need those 120k pots or can I use a resistor and how do I hook that up?
Is there an advantage to 120k pots?

[Paul Olson]

The Apac will work with 5k pots.

[Cananas]

I have send an e-mail to Adam, now. Let's wait what happens (Crossed fingers).

Adam gave me a fast answer:

Carlos,

After a quick look, I was able to locate your pending orders for the yoke and usb board.  I will ship them to you on Monday.  If there is anything else, I can certainly help.  I hope that these actions will be to your satisfaction.

Adam

Let's hope that finally the yoke will arrive...

[Bender]

The Apac will work with 5k pots.

I emailed Andy at Ultimarc about this and it can be done with that old board, but requires rewiring the Yolk (which I'm not willing to do)
so I'm getting a U-HID nano that requires NO rewiring, and is still $25 less than the Ram Controls USB interface
solder a few pins and I should be good to go

I have send an e-mail to Adam, now. Let's wait what happens (Crossed fingers).

Adam gave me a fast answer:

Carlos,

After a quick look, I was able to locate your pending orders for the yoke and usb board.  I will ship them to you on Monday.  If there is anything else, I can certainly help.  I hope that these actions will be to your satisfaction.

Adam

Let's hope that finally the yoke will arrive...

Let us know when the Tracking becomes Active, then we'll be up to 3 pre-orders filled in as many days

[ChadTower]

I don't have anybody's name so here is the email I have been contacting them through:

ramtech@ca.rr.com

let us know if you get a response

Refund request sent to this address.  No response to multiple emails to the address on their website. 

People keep saying stuff like "all preorders have been shipped" and "everyone who has wanted a refund has received one".  It's just not true.

[FrizzleFried]

They are still talking "legal" over at KLOV... so FWIW,  anyone saying all issues have been resolved is full of it.

[Bender]

Who is saying "all preorders have been shipped" and "everyone who has wanted a refund has received one" or "all issues have been resolved"?

[jipp]

bender could you snap a photo of your yoke?  i would like one but cant afford one now but maybe down the road..  once he gets caught up on back orders etc.

all i can say make a spread sheet for your orders or something alike so you do not get lost on orders.. i sorta get a feeling that is what happen here..

all ou would need name, email addy, date ordered, product on a chalk board..  that would be good enough for a single person job. 

chris.

[Bender]

Jipp,

here are all the picks you'd ever need http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=103507.0

[ChadTower]

FWIW, I got a response from Andy within a few hours.  We'll see where that goes.

[HaRuMaN]

FWIW, I got a response from Andy within a few hours.  We'll see where that goes.

Are you still trying for a refund?  Or are you hoping for the part?

[ChadTower]

At this point I just want the transaction over with.  I was gathering parts to build myself a Major Havoc dedicated style cab but gave up on that when the CP never arrived.  I ended up going with a Space Duel conversion so the money will be just fine.

[jipp]

Jipp,

here are all the picks you'd ever need http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=103507.0

man, i want one of them for a bart top model

chris.

[RayB]

Who is saying "all preorders have been shipped"

Are you KIDDING? YOU quoted Adam saying it:

EDIT: Adam got back to he said this:

I’ve just started helping Dave because of the problems he’s had with shipping.  To my knowledge, all of the pre-orders have been shipped.   I’ll ask him about it because I’m more than happy to help with anything he needs to have shipped.  My job has been to watch over all new orders and hand-hold them until confirmed delivery.  If you have any names of pre-orders who are still waiting for their yokes, could you let me know?  I’ll look into the orders right away.
 
Adam

[FrizzleFried]

Has anyone thought what Dave's last name is?

Dave Adams

Hmmm...

[Bender]

Has anyone thought what Dave's last name is?

Dave Adams

Hmmm...

Have to say, that was my first though too
but after e-mailing him back and forth a few times, and getting a timely response in each case , I think he's legit, either that or Dave's new personality is the one we want keeping track of orders

Who is saying "all preorders have been shipped"

Are you KIDDING? YOU quoted Adam saying it:

EDIT: Adam got back to he said this:

I’ve just started helping Dave because of the problems he’s had with shipping. To my knowledge, all of the pre-orders have been shipped. I’ll ask him about it because I’m more than happy to help with anything he needs to have shipped.  My job has been to watch over all new orders and hand-hold them until confirmed delivery.  If you have any names of pre-orders who are still waiting for their yokes, could you let me know?  I’ll look into the orders right away.
 
Adam

to me that is not someone saying unequivocally "all preorders have been shipped" and "everyone who has wanted a refund has received one" he was just stating what his understand was and that he would look into any that were outstanding as he has already in 3 cases already, just sayin'

look I think Dave has made some HUGE mistakes along the way, but hiring(or creating) Adam, seems to have been a good move even if it takes him a while to get up to speed

[ChadTower]

The fact that people keep adding "to my knowledge" or "as far as I know" doesn't change my point.  They are ignoring people who are openly saying they have not received their preorders or their refunds in the same thread. 

BTW, while I did get a response from Adam, the first thing he did was try and tell me the CP price was only $75 despite the fact the ad is still here in BST to be read at any time.   

[ids]

according to UPS, my replacement POT was "left at front door" - some days I wish I "worked" from home.

Chad - how goes the battle, any updates?

[daywane]

I am confused? I thought Dave from Ram Controls is Dave (spit) Foley (spit)

[ChadTower]

Chad - how goes the battle, any updates?

Yep, posted this yesterday:

BTW, while I did get a response from Adam, the first thing he did was try and tell me the CP price was only $75 despite the fact the ad is still here in BST to be read at any time.   

It's in the "I'll ask Dave about it" phase.  Adam says he isn't in a position to issue refunds.

[Bender]

I have send an e-mail to Adam, now. Let's wait what happens (Crossed fingers).

Adam gave me a fast answer:

Carlos,

After a quick look, I was able to locate your pending orders for the yoke and usb board.  I will ship them to you on Monday.  If there is anything else, I can certainly help.  I hope that these actions will be to your satisfaction.

Adam

Let's hope that finally the yoke will arrive...

Cananas,

get the yolk yet?

[Hoopz]

I have send an e-mail to Adam, now. Let's wait what happens (Crossed fingers).

Adam gave me a fast answer:

Carlos,

After a quick look, I was able to locate your pending orders for the yoke and usb board.  I will ship them to you on Monday.  If there is anything else, I can certainly help.  I hope that these actions will be to your satisfaction.

Adam

Let's hope that finally the yoke will arrive...

Cananas,

get the yolk yet?

I'd put money on Dave sending him yolks instead of a yoke. 

[Cananas]

I have send an e-mail to Adam, now. Let's wait what happens (Crossed fingers).

Adam gave me a fast answer:

Carlos,

After a quick look, I was able to locate your pending orders for the yoke and usb board.  I will ship them to you on Monday.  If there is anything else, I can certainly help.  I hope that these actions will be to your satisfaction.

Adam

Let's hope that finally the yoke will arrive...

Cananas,

get the yolk yet?

Yeeeah!!. It is coming here.

Adam provided me the tracknumber yesterday (26 january). I have called UPS today and it will arrive to Spain tomorrow. So the next week will be, finally, at home, I presume.

[Bender]

I have send an e-mail to Adam, now. Let's wait what happens (Crossed fingers).

Adam gave me a fast answer:

Carlos,

After a quick look, I was able to locate your pending orders for the yoke and usb board.  I will ship them to you on Monday.  If there is anything else, I can certainly help.  I hope that these actions will be to your satisfaction.

Adam

Let's hope that finally the yoke will arrive...

Cananas,

get the yolk yet?

I'd put money on Dave sending him yolks instead of a yoke. 

Star Wars Yolks! eww!!!

[Cananas]

Finally it have arrived today.

The yoke works OK, but... the usb inteface not.

It does not detect the x/y movement. I tried to calibrate but no, no. The potenciometers are OK (from 0 to 2,5K -both axis in parallel, I think ->Xblack are connected with Cblack and Xbrown with Cbrown-) and the wires are also OK, even the header cable that comes with the usb interface to connect the yoke.

So I supposed the problem was on the USB interface. I tried with another potenciometer (5K ohm) (ony this was connected to the PCB). I connected to the usb interface, and the axis x and y (??) move when the potenciometer it was between 0 and 4.95k ohm.

I don't know what happens with the USB interface.

[MameMaster!]

I'm pretty sure you have to adjust your usb settings via the JOYSTICK settings on your pc- not via mame.

I made the same mistake and thought that it was broken.

Give that a shot-- try calibrating it via your pc.

Good luck! 

[Cananas]

Firstly, I tried with the Joystick in Control Panel in windows (XP and Vista). Tried calibrating, even I selected the option to see the values in calibrating mode. The values didn't change.

[ChadTower]

It's in the "I'll ask Dave about it" phase.  Adam says he isn't in a position to issue refunds.

Receiving no responses now.   

[FrizzleFried]

The douchebaggery is going strong at KLOV with MULTIPLE people claiming to have shelled out $2,500 for a COMPLETE Star Wars cabinet.  Who believes Dave is anywhere near selling "full complete" Star Wars cabinets? 

One poor bastard who just posted sent his dough back in July of 2010 after *(he says) Dave claimed he was "SHIPPING" them and evidently claimed he's already SHIPPED one or more! 

 

[ChadTower]

I am still in shock that people would send that much money to such a poorly run business.  Especially if that included monitors, which for that price, it damn well better have.

[RayB]

Someone tell this Adam guy to add a contact form to their website. That way emails don't get spam killed. And for customers, there are FREE scripts out there to add a "support ticket" system to a website. That would solve the poor order tracking.

[spoot]

I am still in shock that people would send that much money to such a poorly run business.  Especially if that included monitors, which for that price, it damn well better have.

Reminds me of all the Nigerian spam tbh.   

[milhouse]

For what its worth, I ordered mine a couple of weeks ago and received it today.  There were some issues attributable to the UPS Store they use, but overall am quite satisfied.

[Bender]

Chad

still no refund?

[ChadTower]

Chad

still no refund?

Andy proposed a settlement of goods but it has not yet been finalized.

[Bender]

It is pathetic how long this is taking to get resolved
but let us know either way if you ever get it worked or not
I thinks it's probably good to keep the pressure up, to get some results, so we'll keep posting about it

I have to say I'm very disappointed that the manuel, mounting nuts, and female molex piece (The "extras") no longer come with the yoke
I E-mailed Adam about it and he said Dave only included the extras with the pre orders, but I somehow doubt that they all got that stuff, I asked about the manuel and Adam said there wasn't one
Sad  that Dave can't  even communicate with his own people

[acidblue0]

I'm glad I didn't pre order one of these when I first heard about it. Lots of upset people here. If I had the money I would have though

[nick3092]

I have to say I'm very disappointed that the manuel, mounting nuts, and female molex piece (The "extras") no longer come with the yoke
I E-mailed Adam about it and he said Dave only included the extras with the pre orders, but I somehow doubt that they all got that stuff, I asked about the manuel and Adam said there wasn't one
Sad  that Dave can't  even communicate with his own people

I pre-ordered and didn't get any of that stuff.  I could care less about the nuts or the molex connector, but the manual is a must have IMO.  And in several e-mails afterwards I asked Dave about sending me the manual (even if it was a PDF to avoid shipping).  He never acknowledged it.  Another user here (beaker. I want to say) was kind enough to scan his manual and email it to me.

[Bender]

I have to say I'm very disappointed that the manuel, mounting nuts, and female molex piece (The "extras") no longer come with the yoke
I E-mailed Adam about it and he said Dave only included the extras with the pre orders, but I somehow doubt that they all got that stuff, I asked about the manuel and Adam said there wasn't one
Sad  that Dave can't  even communicate with his own people

I pre-ordered and didn't get any of that stuff.  I could care less about the nuts or the molex connector, but the manual is a must have IMO.  And in several e-mails afterwards I asked Dave about sending me the manual (even if it was a PDF to avoid shipping).  He never acknowledged it.  Another user here (beaker. I want to say) was kind enough to scan his manual and email it to me.

I completely agree the manual is a must have, And I did get it from the same generous source
but if dave can't post it on his website
Maybe we can host it in the file repository here?

Saint?

[acidblue0]

How do they figure you spend all that cash on this and not even get a manual to show you how to setup and have a troubleshoot guide etc? Not everyone can figure it out on thier own. Not answering emails would piss me off. I feel for yall

[saint]

I have to say I'm very disappointed that the manuel, mounting nuts, and female molex piece (The "extras") no longer come with the yoke
I E-mailed Adam about it and he said Dave only included the extras with the pre orders, but I somehow doubt that they all got that stuff, I asked about the manuel and Adam said there wasn't one
Sad  that Dave can't  even communicate with his own people

I pre-ordered and didn't get any of that stuff.  I could care less about the nuts or the molex connector, but the manual is a must have IMO.  And in several e-mails afterwards I asked Dave about sending me the manual (even if it was a PDF to avoid shipping).  He never acknowledged it.  Another user here (beaker. I want to say) was kind enough to scan his manual and email it to me.

I completely agree the manual is a must have, And I did get it from the same generous source
but if dave can't post it on his website
Maybe we can host it in the file repository here?

Saint?

I'm willing to host it but would have to have Dave's written permission first...

[Breaker]

Hi all,

...sorry folks (hit 'reply' instead of 'modify'), see next message...I will contact Dave to request permission

Breaker.

[Breaker]

Hi all,

I has assumed that the manual was intended to be included with all SWY units
(my rationale for sending it to nick3092 & Bender). Now knowing that this is not
the case, I'll email Dave and/or Adam, and request permission to host the manual here.

Email sent.

Will advise.

Breaker.

[LeedsFan]

I find the "extras" bit somewhat puzzling. I certainly was not one of the pre-orders as I only ordered just before Christmas and it arrived about 3-4 days later... complete with manual etc.

[Breaker]

Hi Leeds,

Interesting.
In that case, there may be no reason for Dave to have concerns about the manual being hosted.
We'll see.

Cheers,
Breaker.

[ArcadeBliss]

Well guys, it looks like I still have a few yoke orders to clear up.  I know that there's an issue with overseas orders, but I have a plan to get around that.

Anyone who has a pending yoke order with me, please email me at daviea@ca.rr.com and I will take care of it.  I'm very sorry for the extended wait.

Nick - you should have that handle piece in your hands today.  I don't ship these yokes already damaged, come on.  I know you guys can get upset with me, but let's still be reasonable.  Sure, I take awhile to get things squared away, but that's all it is - me being SLOW.  All the conspiracy theories....give it a rest already.

Thanks

Dave

P.S.  Friz, thank you for alerting me to this thread!!

Email sent...

[VanillaGorilla]

Is there email in prison? Cause I think thats where Dave is going to end up.....

Why Dave, why? I just hope this liquidation rumor Im hearing works out, I still need a re-build kit for my 720. 

[ids]

I don't get it.  If the pictures on his site are to be believed, he has obviously invested a good deal of time and money into his offerings, and has a piles of parts lying around.  When he ships the goods - it's always praise.  I just don't understand the disconnect.  I would much rather see things resolved than see jail time - his quality is excellent and he's making things that just aren't so readily available elsewhere.  I don't know what the problem is, but I think the community is better served by him fixing things than it is by him serving time.   

....'course, i'm one of the lucky ones, got my SW Yoke the day after ordering

[Gray_Area]

I'm surprised no one has made a visit to the plant, just to see what's going on in person. Isn't he in southern California?

[Breaker]

...it's buried in the KLOV thread, but the idea of visiting the plant has been raised on a few occasions...the only problem is that no one can nail down an address.

As a past staunch supporter of Ram Controls, I too am saddened at what appears to be happening. However, I agree with 'ids' - if there's any hope of resolving the
outstanding orders and salvaging the resources of the company for the community that would be the best outcome.

I'm sure if a call had been made to the community for assistance there would have been overwhelming support at the disposal of Ram Controls to assist with
assembly, shipping, communications, etc. After all, the BYOAC community knows the value of the products produced by our small, but mighty, vendors and, in
times of trouble, we'd support them in any way we could to ensure their on-going success, because it means that the hobby benefits as well. There were a
great many options available to Ram Controls in this regards but, sadly, it seems we may be losing a valuable resource due to apathy.  


Here's hoping that everyone with an outstanding order either receives their goods or a full refund.

Breaker.

[shilmover]

Here's hoping that everyone with an outstanding order either receives their goods or a full refund.

Breaker.

Unforutunately...  Not going to happen... 

[ids]

I don't mean to overreact to the previous post - this just speaks to the concept in general, which we see a lot of....

Earlier in this thread there was a mad rush where a number of outstanding orders were delivered.  Not all, unfortunately, but definitely some.  While Dave's behaviour is cause for negativity, I wonder what the true stats are?  How many orders were delivered, vs how many still outstanding?  Last time I looked, that spreadsheet wasn't getting any bigger, and the bulk of the dollar figure were SW cabs (ok, he should not be taking money for those, agreed).

Seems to me, there are those who slag Dave very badly, who do not have a dollar on the line - why?  Yes, there are those still waiting (some for a very long time), and those who got the goods.  Unfortunately, all we get from Dave are comments about mismanagement, and false promises.  It's hard to know the real truth.  He's obviously not running a Ponzi scheme - he does have the stuff he claims is complete, and he does ship it - occasionally.

As a niche market, are we best served by a witch-hunt or a torch bearing lynch mob, or by offering assistance - unless we can clearly identify Dave as a criminal.    I duno, I tend to be optimistic and naive perhaps, but I think the lynch mob mentality is a bit much, all things considered.  I would, however, suggest caution when sending money - make sure you do it in a way that you can get a quick refund if things don't work out.  But if they do work out - you'll be quite happy with the quality of the product.  I'd trade my left nut for my SW Yoke, but paypal doesn't accept nuts 

[shilmover]

I don't mean to overreact to the previous post - this just speaks to the concept in general, which we see a lot of....

Earlier in this thread there was a mad rush where a number of outstanding orders were delivered.  Not all, unfortunately, but definitely some.  While Dave's behaviour is cause for negativity, I wonder what the true stats are?  How many orders were delivered, vs how many still outstanding?  Last time I looked, that spreadsheet wasn't getting any bigger, and the bulk of the dollar figure were SW cabs (ok, he should not be taking money for those, agreed).

Seems to me, there are those who slag Dave very badly, who do not have a dollar on the line - why?  Yes, there are those still waiting (some for a very long time), and those who got the goods.  Unfortunately, all we get from Dave are comments about mismanagement, and false promises.  It's hard to know the real truth.  He's obviously not running a Ponzi scheme - he does have the stuff he claims is complete, and he does ship it - occasionally.

As a niche market, are we best served by a witch-hunt or a torch bearing lynch mob, or by offering assistance - unless we can clearly identify Dave as a criminal.    I duno, I tend to be optimistic and naive perhaps, but I think the lynch mob mentality is a bit much, all things considered.  I would, however, suggest caution when sending money - make sure you do it in a way that you can get a quick refund if things don't work out.  But if they do work out - you'll be quite happy with the quality of the product.  I'd trade my left nut for my SW Yoke, but paypal doesn't accept nuts 

Really?!?  Are you ---smurfing--- kidding me?

What more proof do you need?  He promises and is no longer responding to any emails or phone calls (even from his "friends" who I thought I was).  I supported him blindly...

He has great product, but terrible execution.  Since he came back on KLOV and said he was back and will take care of everything...  since I talked to him on the phone and was told that he will take care of my order...  that it was sitting there in a box ready to go...  not a single person has come out and said that he/she got the product they were owed. 

What more do you need?

[opt2not]

Just a heads-up, there is a movement starting against Dave at Ram Controls on the klov forum.
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=176040

steph is looking into taking legal action towards Dave, but needs details from those who have been swindled by him. The information you would give to steph would help make action against Dave move quicker and more smoothly. Steph is seeking damages, and grand-theft jail time for Dave...

Just an FYI to whomever wants to jump on that train...

[ids]

Really?!?  Are you ---smurfing--- kidding me?

Sorry, did not mean to start anything, or offend.  I've read a bit more and would like to silently bow out of this debate.  If Dave owes so many, screws friends over, and f**ks up this badly, i'll stop with the hopes for a positive outcome - it seems I was wrong and it is hopeless.  How about hoping someone steps in, buys out his ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, resolves outstanding issues and continues offering great products for the hobby?  Sorry, I'm hopeless too.

[CheffoJeffo]

If Steph is taking up arms, then everybody who didn't have a dog in the fight, but still defended Dave (e.g. people like me), needs to step the ---fudgesicle--- out of the way.

* CheffoJeffo will be looking into to contributing to a legal fund for Steph, who has done nothing but good by me.

[Bender]

well all I have to say is I'm glad I got my yoke cause this will be the end of all those nice products.... oh well
such a shame Dave couldn't get his ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- together on the fulfillment side, he certainly brought this upon himself
I think this is the worst possible outcome, I doubt anyone will get any money or product as a result

IMHO your an idiot to give anyone (especially Dave) $2500 for a pre order, sorry...