Badmouth's Redline Racer - Totalled

[BadMouth]

EDIT: State as of 9/30/2011



Original Post:

I've been trying to redo the control panel of my driving cab, but keep getting sidetracked by other little projects.
Maybe if I start a thread, I'll feel obligated to have progress to post.   

Earlier this year, I picked up a gutted Sega Virtual-On cab for next to nothing.




Had to bust the boards off the side of the cab where the end cap originally mounted and do a little bodywork.
That end also didn't have a channel for t-molding, so I had to route that.
Anyways, some fresh paint, new floor mats, new t-molding, tv, speakers, and logitech momo wheel later......


(marquee was cracked, so I covered it with bondo and painted it    )

This was just to get it together into a use-able form until I learned what I wanted.
The control panel is currently just a plywood frame covered with foam & pleather.
Everything is controlled using the steering wheel buttons. 
This makes it nearly impossible for a guest to sit down and play like they would a real arcade machine.   

So, my goal is to redo the frontend and control panel to make it more arcade-like and user friendly.
I considered several themes & names (DUI or Driven Insane), but decided against naming it.
I am trying to have somewhat of a consistent theme as far as using the same colors, font & flames throughout.



I'm not sure I like the control panel pics there.  Almost all of them are taken at an angle.

I plan to use the font on my buttons also:

[BadMouth]

I was primarily focused on the Sega Model 2 driving games, so started with those control panels as a guide.  (and this is a model 2 cab, so it's fitting)
I knew I wanted 4 view buttons and wanted all the buttons labeled.
Then I came across this part of a Virtua Racing control panel on fleabay.
I assumed it took standard size arcade buttons.  I assumed wrong.
After drilling out the holes and spacing them wider......


It heated up a bit too much from the hole saw and blistered slightly above button # 2 and below the 2 & 3.
Live and learn.  I can live with it.

I plan to insert arrow labels into the buttons so they can double as navigation buttons in the front end.
All buttons will be illuminated.  In addition to these, there will be coin, exit, & radio buttons.

Here is the mockup I did this evening using foam project board (with graph lines on it!)
There will be another front piece that will fit under the steering wheel and join up to it.



At least I have a plan now.

[BadMouth]

Spent most of yesterday evening working on this front panel made from a store display.  It had a nice smooth surface, so I figured it would look nice painted.
After spending several hours getting it to fit around the wheel housing perfectly, I decided it was complete garbage.  If I used it, I was going to have to piece together a separate panel for the bottom and figure out what to do with the seam.  I'd figured on bolting down the wheel then installing the dashboard from the top.  I didn't realize that until then that I could make a one-piece panel and slide the wheel in from the front.  
In the end, the dashboard I spent all that time on made a good template.  I had also made a new framework from scrap plywood....decided that it was the worst thing I'd ever built...ever.  Nothing I've ever tried to make out of plywood turned out right.  

Tonight I went back to my old friend MDF.  We've worked well together since the car audio boom of the early 90's.
I made the front all one piece.  No seams to contend with and should be easy to cover before assembly.



There were a bunch of angles to contend with.  The bottom of the cabinet is slanted.  Because the wheel is angled upward on it's base, the shelf it attaches to had to be angled down to get the wheel in the position I wanted it. The slot that's cut in the middle of the front for the shelf to pass through is cut at an angle so everything is nice and tight with no gaps.    I do have a couple spots where the edge of saw cut a little too far, but I couldn't see it from the side I was looking at while cutting.
If that's all the bondo that I'm gonna need, I'm overjoyed.



12:30am...I guess it's Saturday now.  Time to call it a day.
I was surprised how close the fit was around the wheel on the first try.
The first failed attempt at a panel made a very good template.
I only have a little bit of sanding to do tomorrow.



I have to figure out what I'm going to do to cover the front.
I'm choosing between vinyl laminate from partsexpress (which I'd have to wait for), vinyl upholstery, gloss paint, or textured paint.
The top part of the dash will definitely be padded vinyl upholstery.

[EvilNuff]

Nice start, I like it!  A friend of mines interested in a driving cab at some point so I keep linking him any threads I find on driving cabs.

[BadMouth]

Here's today's progress:

Got sidetracked again and got a late start.  

Did some sanding to fine tune the opening where the wheel slides in.  It's a near perfect fit against the wheel all around the top.

Started cutting the button holes, then realized my square view buttons were too short to reach through the MDF  
I should have thought of that when I switched from the thinner material, but it slipped my mind somehow.
I don't have a router, so I ended up putting real big spade bit in my drill press and notching out behind each button hole.
It's a good thing I had a cheap drill press or I'd been out of luck (or on my way to buy a router).



The next issue was keeping the buttons serviceable.  I had enough room for the switch on the back of the button to fit, but it was too close to the main shelf to get a button wrench on it.  I reached in through the steering wheel opening to see how difficult it would be to tighten them after the top was in place.  It was possible, but a PITA.  You'd be reaching around the corner and working blind.  So at the risk of making the whole thing less solid, I cut out a big area behind the buttons so everything could be serviced from the bottom without any hassle.  I made sure that I had enough room to get a button wrench in there.  After it was done, I realized that I could have cut the button wrench in half & it would have fit into a smaller space.  Well, it's all open now and should be super easy to work on.  The radio button has two posts to keep it straight, so I'm not as worried about getting it tight.
I may add some reinforcement on the left side and put some pilot holes up through the bottom of the cab to secure the middle two supports.



At the end of today:
(top part is just a piece of foam project board that I was using to figure out how deep to make the top.
the final top will match the curve of the dashboard)



Tomorrow:  make top, screw everything together, bondo, then making a decision on paint.

[TOK]

I think plexi painted black from the back with R/C car paint would look great for that control panel setup.

[BadMouth]

I think plexi painted black from the back with R/C car paint would look great for that control panel setup.

That would have looked slick.  Had I had more of a plan to begin with, it could have been.  

Honestly, I didn't want to put that much time/money/effort into it.  I picked up a $7 can of rustoleum truck bed liner last night to experiment with.
After doing the bondo, priming and sanding, it probably was prepped well enough for a better finish, but the bed liner turned out to have the texture I wanted, so I went that route.  The finish dried duller than I wanted and felt rough to the touch, which made it pick up dust really bad.  I had visions of people eating cheetos and leaving orange dusty prints embedded in my dash.    So I sprayed some scrap pieces with the bedliner and experimented with them.  I used gloss black paint on one, but it leveled out too much and ruined the texture.  I sprayed clearcoat on the other.  It held the texture, but didn't feel as rough and didn't pick up prints.  After it was completely dry, I sprayed it with the cleaner that I use on my bar (sun and earth all purpose, smells awesome).  It cleaned up beautifully and the paper towel I used didn't snag on the texture.  Most importantly, there were no bad reactions between the bedliner and clearcoat (both rustoleum).  

Today's pics:

Actual assembly!  Up until this point, it's all been mock up and test fitting.


wasn't sure how I was going to get the dash cut so that the back sets flush against the plexi since it had complex curves and angles going on.
I ended up wrapping a ratchet strap around the whole thing to hold the top of the dash on, then used my old template
held flat against the back to draw a line of where to cut.

It worked out fine.  I cut out two dashboard tops in case I changed my mind about how far it's going to stick out.

Paint!  (before clearcoat)


I get impatient.  I've ruined a few projects by laying on the clearcoat too thick and having bad things happen.
The paint underneath needs enough time to breath.  I know this, but still have a problem waiting.
So I had a drink and played light gun games to distract myself between coats.



Where it stands now:


Everything is just sitting in there.  Nothing is tightened down.  I still need to cut out my button labels.
The white button will be <EXIT> and the orange one will be RADIO.  The view buttons will have arrows on them for menu navigation.
I don't like the silver Act Labs shift knob.  By the end of this project, I'll have it swapped out for the leather wrapped one that came with the Momo wheel.
It has a smaller shaft, so it's going to take a little work.  I looked at some real shift knobs, but they seem too heavy.

....cause it's tight like that.  



Even though it's tight, I'm afraid of getting a little light bleeding from the back of the illuminated buttons.
I sprayed the inside flat black to help with reflections, but I wish I'd sectioned off the buttons up top.
We'll see what happens.

Next up, the top of the dash...and to pad or not to pad.

[BadMouth]

Wow, having this thread is motivating me to make some sort of progress almost every day.  

Real life got in the way yesterday, but I got back to the project this evening.
I was ill prepared in some respects and improvised to get things done, but just kept moving and in the end a lot got done.  

I decided to go with a padded dash, in part to add thickness since I was only using 1/8" hardboard (for it's flexibility).
I didn't have a real plan when I started; just cut out the pieces, sprayed them with 3M super 77 and stacked them.
I wrapped the foam around just far enough to get a nice round shape on the front lip of the dash.
While looking for some type of glue in my toolbox, I came across some double sided tape.
Didn't have much faith in it, but tried a piece and it bonded well, even with the vinyl stretched tight, it didn't give.



The vinyl was pretty stretchy, so to attach it to the main dash, I just stretched the excess down the sides and tacked it.
It might not have been the most professional way to do it, but it was easy and came out looking the way I expected it to.



I wanted to get the plexi ordered today and went back through the forums to see what I should buy.
Some wish they'd gone tinted, others wished they hadn't.  I wasn't sure what to get.  I looked at the Lowes and
Home Depot sites to see what they had in stock locally.  Home Depot had something called Optix, but only in clear.
The website for Optix had great information on how to cut, drill, etc. http://www.plaskolite.com/products/flat_sheet/optix/
(click fabrication)  So I went with that, figuring that I could use automotive tint on it if I wasn't happy with clear.
The Optix guide said that you could score it two or three times and then break it off like glass.  
I tried this using an acrylic scoring tool that I bought at home depot.  It did not work as advertised.  It removed very little material on each pass.
I scored it ten times and still didn't get a clean break.  Luckily, it didn't break toward the inside.  
I rescored the spots that didn't break right, clamped the edge between two boards and took a hammer to it.
Probably not the right tool, but it worked.  I still had some points sticking out that I had to take the sander to.
The stuff sanded really well.  It drilled easily too (used a ceramic/glass bit & widened the holes with a grinding stone on a dremel).  
If I had to do over again, I'd use a saw/router/dremel instead of scoring it.  I'd definitely buy the Optix brand again.
Anyways, placed it in front of the tv, drew some rough lines, measured for more accurate lines, taped off, painted.....



I sanded the RCA logo off the front of the TV so it wouldn't show (couldn't find my electrical tape, but I could find my sandpaper).  
I missed the VCR+Plus logo at the top.
It doesn't bother me enough to take it back apart, but if it's ever apart, I'll get rid of those too.



It's getting harder to get detailed pics with all the black items blending together.


Still need to cut out my button labels and swap out the shift knob.
The wiring is on it's way, but I probably won't get to it until weekend.

[RonnieC312]

sweet.. i want one lol

[BadMouth]

Got a couple things done this evening...button labels & shifter knob.
The labels made it look a bit less generic.
I think I need to add some more style, but still don't want to give it a name.
I'll probably lay down some yellow flames over the red when all is said and done.


That's going to be it for a while.
I won't be able to get back to it until later next week.

[thesharkfactor]

hi mate..

great work! the control panel looks great and fits well...

when looking for inspiration for my cab, i saw that a another similar minded guy had used a sega rally dashboard and fitted a logitech g25 into it. he had a metal worker fabricate a mount to erm, mount the logitech into the sega dash. i myself, used  a sega dashboard but i used a happ wheel and made a mount from mdf board. not an option for you now, but for others who may want to attempt this.

your cab is looking good, but might i suggest a couple of fine details..

you can get a monitor bezel for that cabinet, try ebay, search "sega bezel" that should find what you need. the bezel will hide the pc speakers and the tv casing.
also, you could also get original sega speakers to fit either side of the monitor..

try hyperspin as a front end. ideal for using a steering wheel, and it looks great too!     

[XNIF]

yes this is great! How big is that TV?

[BadMouth]

hi mate..

great work! the control panel looks great and fits well...

when looking for inspiration for my cab, i saw that a another similar minded guy had used a sega rally dashboard and fitted a logitech g25 into it. he had a metal worker fabricate a mount to erm, mount the logitech into the sega dash. i myself, used  a sega dashboard but i used a happ wheel and made a mount from mdf board. not an option for you now, but for others who may want to attempt this.

your cab is looking good, but might i suggest a couple of fine details..

you can get a monitor bezel for that cabinet, try ebay, search "sega bezel" that should find what you need. the bezel will hide the pc speakers and the tv casing.
also, you could also get original sega speakers to fit either side of the monitor..

try hyperspin as a front end. ideal for using a steering wheel, and it looks great too!      

Thanks.  Like any other project, I've learned a lot along the way and could definitely take it up a notch if I ever redo it.  The homemade plexi bezel actually works pretty good.  It's dark enough inside the cab that the tv case isn't visible unless I'm shining a bright light on it or using a camera flash.  I have the original Virtual on speaker housings that wrap around the monitor, but they won't fit unless I decase the tv.  The speakers do detract from the authentic arcade look, but I'm ok with it for now.

The biggest thing is that the American college football season starts next week and I have to have this thing back together and my bar cleaned up in time!  

I'll check out hyperspin.  I've always been impressed with it in videos, but was reluctant to try it because I didn't want to spend a lot of time learning how to configure it with all my emulators.  I have Mala set up to display all arcade games in one list regardless of what program is used to emulate them.  I'll have to see if Hyperspin can do that.

If I had it to do over again, I would probably start out with a Daytona control panel (same cab, it would drop right in).  I have the guts out of an Act Labs FF wheel in my parts bin to use as an interface.  If I come across a Daytona panel cheap enough, I may pick it up to tinker with.  I have some ideas that would require some experimenting to prove that the concepts can work.

One thing I'd like to pull off: Attach an optical encoder wheel toward the top of the steering shaft for 360 degree wheel games, then have some form of clutch to engage and disengage a second shaft attached to the FF motor and potentiometer for 270 degree games.  This would be done automatically by the computer depending on the game selected.  I was thinking that an A/C compressor clutch would work (and it would), but decided the current draw was probably a bit much.  I'm not actively working on this, but if I ever build another control panel, this will be a feature.   

The big thing keeping me from putting a lot of effort into the driving cab is the limited number of games that play well in MAME.  If it weren't for El Semi's Model 2 Emulator and coming across a cab for $50, I wouldn't have bothered.  I've installed a few PC driving games, but it's been impossible to navigate them without the keyboard and mouse.  Having both a console and pc in the cab is definitely the way to go, but you'd have to start out with a wheel that will work for both.  

The biggest thing I've learned from this project is that planning pays off (I didn't do any planning on this project and had to redo a few things), so my winter project is going to be learning to use some cad software and plan out my regular cab in painstaking detail before I buy or build anything.  I have some crazy ideas for that cab too.  

[BadMouth]

yes this is great! How big is that TV?

It's a 25"  EDIT: Measured, it's a 27" It just fits between the original monitor mounts in the cab.  
One of the mounts had to be removed to get the TV in and then put back in after the tv was in place.

A 27" or 29" would fit, but you might have to ditch the bottom monitor mount and have a shorter control panel.
A 32" might come close to fitting if decased.

It's a Sega Model 2 cab used in Virtual-On Cyber Troopers, Daytona USA, Sega GT24hr, etc.
[sThe original monitor was 25"][/s]  EDIT: That's the concensus of what I found onling, but seems too small.  I'm not sure.

The opening is 28 3/4" wide (including the space used by the speaker grills on the original).  It's 20 3/4" between the top and bottom monitor mount studs.
You could probably go up to a 24" height with the bottom monitor mount removed.

(still had my measurements for the plexi in my wallet, lol)

[HaRuMaN]

   I want a Virtual On so bad I can taste it...

Did you get the VO control panel with it or no?

[BadMouth]

   Cost:

Cab               $50
TV                 $50  (overpaid, long story involving a friend's wife being miffed that he gave away their tv    )
Wheel            $40
T-Molding       $40
Mat for floor    $10 (original was light grey and so filthy it was easier to replace than clean)
Shifter           $30 (another wheel & pedals included, but they had issues with some PC games)
Computer      $250 (Athlon X3 2.9Ghz, 2GB Ram, 500GB HD, Nvidia 8600GT; waited for good sales at newegg)
                           EDIT: Have since swapped out for a 3.2Ghz X2
Speakers/sub   $25
V-racing panel $18
Buttons          $20
Paint/bedliner  $30
3/4" MDF        $30 (have enough left over to build a bartop)
Plexiglass        $30 (have enough left over for bartop)
KeyWiz          $40  (still might hack a pad, but this is quick and easy)
Vinyl              $14
Foam             $10
Wire/Misc       $13
---------------------------

         TOTAL $700    

I still have to wire it and paint flames on it, but all the materials are already paid for and included.

It didn't feel like I was spending that much on it.  
I nickel and dimed it; rarely spent more than $40 at a time.

I had it running off my main mame computer for a while and it worked fine, you just couldn't play both at once.

I still have the Virtua On boards, PSU, etc., but I have no way to test them and don't expect to make a lot off them.

[BadMouth]

  I want a Virtual On so bad I can taste it...

Did you get the VO control panel with it or no?

No.  There are a couple on fleabay at the moment.
I tried to think of a way to work dual trigger sticks into the driving design but gave up on putting them on the dash.

I'm still thinking about putting one on each side of the seat. 

[XNIF]

 Cost:

...
TV                 $50  (overpaid, long story involving a friend's wife being miffed that he gave away their tv    )

...

Typical

[BadMouth]

Wiring:
I didn't pay attention to which way the bulbs & switches would be turned when I installed the buttons.
I had to redo them and since they had directional arrows on the front, I had to take them apart and turn them 90 degrees.
Other than that, everything went smooth and it took hardly any time at all to wire everything.

To save time & effort, I had ordered a KeyWiz.  I felt like a lot was going to waste only hooking 8 buttons up to it, but when deciding what keys to assign buttons to, I realized something:  If I used the arrow keys, ESC & Enter, maybe I'd be able to navigate pc game menus without breaking out the keyboard and mouse.  It worked like a charm.  I tried Need For Speed Underground & Grid.  Everything was able to be done from the buttons on the CP.  The only oddball thing I came across was that NFS required you to press Q to quit, so I just assigned the radio button to Q.



Buttons Lit:


The buttons look ok with my paper labels inside.  Inkjet transparencies would probably look better.  Applying Vinyl stickers to the diffusers would probably yield the best results if you only needed simple shapes or words.

That's probably all I'm going to do for a while.  It will sit until I get some kind of inspiration for more cosmetic touches.
I may try to heat and bend a piece of plexi to make a new marquee.  It's something I've always wanted to learn, but have never tried.

Some more pics (they are a bit washed out because there was a bright light above me.  You couldn't see any detail in the cab with the light turned off though):



EDIT: The seat and top actually do have all the bolts in them now, lol.

[thesharkfactor]

good work..!

[HaRuMaN]

I'm sad to see a VO go, but considering what a fine you job you did there, I'm OK with it.      

[broberg]

I Really like it!

Looks comfy ^^

[BadMouth]

Minor update.....

I never showed the pedals before because I was just using the momo pedals placed on the floor of the cab.  
A few weeks ago, added happ pedals that have been in my parts bin since last fall.  The clutch is both analogue & digital.  The clutch pot is wired to an Act Labs pedal box (so it will only work in mame or games that allow more than one controller).  I also installed a microswitch that the fan gear presses when the pedal is 3/4 of the way down. The installation pics I took at the time were horrible because my camera phone was set to super low quality.  I took these the other day while I had the cab pulled out for some PC work.





Didn't have much choice but to center them or cut the cab.
(put steel bar stock across the bottom for fear of the wood not being strong enough)


I'm happy with them.  I'd like the super expensive sim pedals better, but these will do for now.

Gbeef's thread has me wanting to take my cab up a level.  

I've had a happ ffb wheel and the parts to make it work in the parts bin for a while now, but I enjoy the cab too much to have it torn apart.
Got a good deal on a dashboard from an outrun 2 the other week.  Going to build a test bench and tinker with hacking a spare momo wheel sometime soon.  I also want to work out ways to incorporate support for 360 degree wheel games.  If/when I get everything sorted out, then I'll modify my cab.

[gbeef]

Nice upgrade to the pedals. Who makes them?

[AurorasDady]

Just read through this and it got me thinking, I may just have room in my game room for somthing like this. I thank you for the inspiration, though my wallet would like to say

[BadMouth]

Nice upgrade to the pedals. Who makes them?

Standard Happ stuff from a San Fransisco Rush cabinet.
Just had to swap out the potentiometers to 10k ones and wire it to the logitech pedal cable.

My only complaint is that they're meant to be pushed downward rather than forward.
I could have angled them, or made different arms for the pedals, but didn't want to go to the trouble right now.
They work good with my seat height, but I wouldn't recommend them for seats mounted any lower.

The resistance springs on the brake and clutch have a pretty solid feel.  Gas pedal is soft which I guess is good.
Newer happ pedals just use a torsion spring that probably doesn't offer much resistance, but these have a cylinder under each pedal arm with a real stiff spring inside it.

I can see someone indiviually mounting the pedal brackets at an angle above the footbox area and being happy with them.
They would have to make new arms to keep the pedals from being at a funky angle though.
It's just square metal stock with a threaded hole in one end and the pedal welded on the other end.  It wouldn't be too hard for someone with a little metalworking experience.  I had them apart to clean them and paint the mounting plate.  Compressing the springs enough to get them back in there is a PITA.
It might be a cheaper way to go, but I don't think it would be as good as the sim pedals because these are still basically a stick swinging on a single pivot point.

Looking forward to your updates!  

[BadMouth]

I thank you for the inspiration, though my wallet would like to say

I rarely spent more than $40 at a time, sometimes a couple of times a week though. 
Couldn't believe how much it was when I totalled it all up.

I plan to add cab measurements to my driving cab information thread sometime soon.
Maybe that will spur a few more to build them

Now we just need to get online multiplayer support working in Model 2.
Maybe a track record thread.......

[Corbo]

Great cabinet!  I love the care you've put into it, especially the vinyl above the dash that's a great touch.

[TheChairmanH2K]

SON OF A $%&&%$%^&!!!1  i saw that VO cab on ebay.  it was in Pennsylvania right?  it wasnt far from me but the guy wouldnt reply to my emails.   raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[BadMouth]

it wasnt far from me but the guy wouldnt reply to my emails.

Hmmm....he replied to mine.  It wasn't that close to me, so I asked them if they would hold it for me for a few weeks if I went ahead and paid for it.
They did one better and brought it to an arcade auction close to me that weekend. 

It came from TNT amusements, outside Philadelphia.  I'd like to go buy a truckload of gutted cabs someday and make each one play different types of games (mounted guns, shmups, fighters, classics, etc).  I rent though and already have more stuff than I ever want to move.

[yotsuya]

I'd like to go buy a truckload of gutted cabs someday and make each one play different types of games (mounted guns, shmups, fighters, classics, etc).  I rent though and already have more stuff than I ever want to move.

Same here. Dedicated 4-way vertical, driving, guns, yoke.... No room though!

[TheChairmanH2K]

oh i know TNT alright.  a guy i work with does their restoration sideart part time.  they mustve bought the cab off the original seller from ebay because the pics you have of it being in a hockey rink type area are the ones i saw on ebay from a guy who owned a hockey rink.  well, you certainly did a great job fixin up the VO cab, glad it went to a good home 

[dexxy]

great job!  I have an old act-labs wheel, shifer and pedals including clutch that has been kicking around here for several years.   I got a dual indy cab with the intention of converting one to pc driving sim, the other to flight sim, but i'll be damned if I didn't get them working and now I don't want to wreck em!  Although I did get two extra seats with them!

[BadMouth]

I've been piling arcade driving controls up since last fall, but wasn't too motivated to install them because I like the cab the way it is.
The recent driving cab builds have me wanting to take mine up a level now. 
(or maybe even build a new one, but the same work needs done either way)

I picked up this awesome CP from an Outrun 2 cab.  It's mint!  (smudges notwithstanding)

(got it for $30 shipped!....fairly sure it was a price mistake and the seller didn't want to risk damage to their feedback
shipping alone had to be almost that much)

I'd also picked up a 4 speed shifter from a Sega Super GT (Scud Race).
I hadn't planned on using the shifter because it was going to be a pain to wire because  it only uses 3 switches.
There is a way to do it, but one gear will always be registering, so you'd have to have another switch to disable it while mapping other keys.  After working out the details for hacking a Logitech MOMO wheel though, the fact that the button presses were dependent on different ground wires being used, using this shifter suddenly made sense.

I added an extra switch for the other ground because I was thinking of it as wired in the thread above, where it would always be registering a button press (which would make mapping keys a PITA)  Now that I think about it though, with the MOMO pcb, using the NC tab on the left/right switch would have worked fine as long as the shifter didn't fall forwards or backwards enough to close one of the other switches while in neutral.  Oh well, it's done and will work.


The Outrun 2 cp was set up for an UP/DOWN shifter.  I thought it would just be a matter of swapping out a bracket, but the bracket is welded in.
I was figuring on cutting it out to accept the 4 speed shifter when fortune smiled on me again and I came across a Daytona USA frame on fleabay for $12 + free shipping.  I'm glad I waited!  Here are both brackets.  The Outrun 2 doesn't have speaker mounts.  The mounts on the back for the steering and ffb assemblies are also different.  The points to mount it to the cab are the same though and I still have the original brackets that were on my cab, so it should bolt right up.


I buffed the black plastic cover at the base of the shifter to make it shiny and ordered a brand spankin' new 4 speed top plate from Divemaster It was only $10.60 + around $6 shipping.

I really like the feel of this shifter.  It just feels more like a real shifter than the happ.

Until I had all the parts and put them together, I didn't realize the weird way that the top plate mounts.
The shifter bolts have a hole tapped into the back of them and the screws that hold the top plate screw into them.
I pondered how to handle this for a while, then ordered the actual original sega part so I wouldn't have to spend time messing with it.
I wasn't crazy about spending $20 on four bolts, but it will save me a bunch of time.  (not that I'm rushing this)

The hole in the middle of the Daytona frame isn't large enough for the happ wheel, so it will have to be widened.
There also isn't any space for bolt heads between the frame and the plastic dash.  Normally, I'd just mount a plank of wood to the sega wheel mounting points and attach the happ bracket to that, but I decided to take it to a welding shop instead and have them do it right since the happ ffb motor is going to be putting some stress on it.  I don't want it loosening up over time.  It will probably be a week before this is done.


The lack of depth in the view button area is going to present some challenges.  The original buttons are crazy expensive and the ones I have in my current cab are too deep.  The metal behind the area is thick...and two layers thick.  I found these poker/lottery machine buttons that I really like, but they're $10 each.
http://na.suzohapp.com/pushbuttons/57200041.htm  Someone was selling white ones on fleabay cheap, so I ordered 4 of them, but they may just end up being placeholders until I sell some spares and order the colored ones.  (I'll order them from Divemaster, same price but cheaper shipping)

....also ordered a real steering wheel. 

It will take a while to get here, then it will take a while to come up with a paddle shifter design that I'm happy with.
I'm not going to rush this one.

[Martijn]

This cab shape is really nice for racers 

And you are doing a great job finishing it

[gbeef]

Really nice. i Wish i had access to real parts... this is gonna look great when your done. are you planning on redoing artwork also?

[BadMouth]

This cab shape is really nice for racers  

And you are doing a great job finishing it

Thanks.  It's currently nowhere near the standard of most of the cabs on here (yours included).
One of the reasons that I never built an upright cab is because I didn't want to do it until I was ready to invest the time and money to do something really special.

I'm striving to raise my standards in this round of upgrades, but the cab itself would need disassembled/sanded/repainted to get the whole cab to that level.

Really nice. i Wish i had access to real parts... this is gonna look great when your done. are you planning on redoing artwork also?

If it's the shifter cover you're interested in, I can get you the part number if you want to order one from Divemaster or a Happ dealer in Canada.
......Or I can send you the Outrun 2 one in the first pic.
It's in perfect condition.   I was keeping it because I thought I might use a G27 shifter.  The plan was to screw the G27 shifter boot ring to the top of it.
I never did check to see if it was big enough to cover the opening, but I can check tonight if you're interested in doing yours that way.  If you have access to a sewing machine, shifter boots are easy to make.  You could make one with a square base that bolts into the recess.

I reaaaally want to go all out on artwork and do the area above the view buttons, instructions on the bezel, vinyl stickers on the button diffusers, etc.
Have to settle on a theme first.    I'm not as good with the art software as I'd like to be.  The plan is to do a mediocre job on all the art myself,
then turn my copies and all the source material over to someone who is really good to redo it to their standards.

I'm also not sure if I'm switching to an LCD in this cab, building a new cab around this dashboard, or what.  
I kind of like the old crt tv for arcade games.  It just feels right (even if I do have to turn it on with a remote).  
I've been using the G27 I fixed with a 32" LCD on my desk and it's pretty cool for sim racing. The extra field of view really helps with sims and newer games.  
The dashboard needs to be done the same way in either case, so I'm making progress on it.  

The current leader for a theme idea is: R-cade Racer Anthology with the R done in Honda Type R lettering and the rest done newer Ridge Racer style.
A few problems with it.....I've always been irked by having "cade" in cab names, so I'd feel hipocritical having it in mine.
And I can't really call it "anthology" unless I can get the wheel to also work for 360 degree wheel games and include all the old games.
I'm working on that, but wondering if it's really worth it as I play mostly games from the 90's.

I've got lots of time.  I already have a playable cab, so there's no need to rush.

[sqwirral]

Another awesome cab. Glad you replaced the pedals, I just got my G27 and realised how awful the plastic Momo ones were that I used for so long. The real Happ ones look the nuts.

[BadMouth]

I had a million other obligations today (half of them still unfulfilled), but the welding shop calls and says the bracket is ready and that it will cost twice what I expected  

I pick it up and they did a much better job than they needed to, so I get over the sticker shock and move on.
I get it home and try to put the plastic dash on the front of it and it doesn't line up.  The steering shaft is a half inch off to the side.  
So I start measuring (which I guess I should have done before).
THE FRIGGIN' OUTRUN 2 DASH HAS THE STEERING WHEEL A HALF INCH OFF CENTER!!!!!!!  
The Daytona bracket has it centered.
I assumed arcade machine companies were cheap and just kept using old parts without changing them (except to make them cheaper).

I can't believe I didn't notice it before.
Not sure what I'm going to do now and don't have time to think about it until Monday.  

I guess it's either hack up their work and make some brackets to move it over a half inch (in which case it will bother me enough that I'll want to move the monitor, seat, etc over a half inch to keep the wheel centered), or hack up the dash.  :'(

I'm out.  Just wanted to ---smurfette---.  I have obligations all weekend long and can't mess with it now.  


EDIT:Couldn't sleep, so I grabbed a hacksaw and a dremel and FIXT it (removed the plastic cone from the center...or off center in this case).  
Those are smudges in the pic, actually managed to do it without gouging or scratching anything.
It still needs some cleaning up, but now I'm locked into a direction and can move forward.
Guess I'll have to make a bigger steering column.

[BadMouth]

Accomplished a few things today:

Re-installed all the happ ffb hardware.  Cut out a piece of 1/4" ABS plastic to use as a base for mounting the MOMO pcb.
Stuck the plastic to the bracket with emblem tape and screwed the pcb in place, using rubber grommets as standoffs.
Mounted the servo amp above the happ motor assembly and wired it up.  Wired up the shifter using leftover pieces of the Virtual On harness.
I still haven't settled on what other buttons I'll have, hence the mess in the lower right corner.  
This dash and super thick bracket doesn't leave a lot of room to squeeze extra buttons in.


Decided to upgrade to 5.1 surround.    The center channel speakers will be in the dash.  The rear channels will be in the top part of the cab.
(L/R speakers will be at ear level where they are now or possibly moved to the outside of the cab)


I ground off the rest of the cone in the center of the dash that I had cut off.  It didn't look too bad, but it would take a huge steering column to cover it and have the steering shaft centered in it.  So I removed the rivets holding the carbon fiber dash panel on and used it to make a template with the hole for the steering shaft in the right place.  I started to cut a new panel out of aluminum, but was failing miserably, so I plan to either cut it out of plastic or find someone who can do a good job with the metal and not cost me a fortune.

I had ordered some glossy carbon fiber vinyl to use on the view button area, hoping to match the center part of the dash.  Most likely I'll just use that on the center part of the dash now too, but I am considering taking this opportunity use some custom artwork.  I scanned the old dash panel in and I've made a mask in paint.net where I can just drop it on top other images to see what they would look like.  Originally, I was just using carbon fiber or brushed aluminum backgrounds.  Then I thought, why not use actual artwork?  Hopefully I'll find something that works.  It's dependent on my picking a theme.  Todays leading theme.....FTW Racing (you pick the meaning    )

Blank canvas.....


I should mention that the happ bracket is mounted upside down and the steering shaft is keyed so everything only fits one way.
If you're using a happ steering wheel, it will be upside down!
Also, the spacing on the happ 3-hole steering wheel is not the same as the spacing on a real 3-hole steering wheel.
EDIT: Just had a look at some other adapters and the three holes are slotted, so apparently there are different sizes.


Probably won't be any progress on the physical parts for a while.  I'm going to mess around with different artwork for a while and try to settle on a name.  My original cab is still untouched, so I can play it for inspiration.  

[gbeef]

looking good. im considering Hacking my 4way shifter to a 6 way.
very nice progress so far what are you planning on doing with the G27?

[BadMouth]

Had a go with this cp and Model 2 emulator on the laptop.
The feedback is acting weird when not in a game.
If automatic centering is disabled, the motor drifts slowly to the left until reaching the stop.
I assume it is still being sent power, but just can't travel any farther.
I reduced the input gain, but all it did was make ffb weaker.

When automatic centering is enabled, it gets rid of that problem, but the wheel will shake faintly until you grab it.
It doesn't effect gameplay, but I don't want the motor burning up while it's sitting and not being used. 
Guess I'll have to figure out what all those dip switches and adjustments on the servo amp do.
Maybe a solution there 

im considering Hacking my 4way shifter to a 6 way.

If you do, let us know how it's done!

what are you planning on doing with the G27?

Right now I'm using it at my desk with iRacing.com.
They currently have a 3 months for $12 special, so I figured it was worth a try.
It's better than I thought it would be, but it's very involved.  I think I'd enjoy it if I had spare time to devote to it, but as it stands I can't invest the practice time required to get good enough to race other people.  I also like to keep my recurring bills to a minimum.
Maybe after all my projects are done (which will never happen). 

[gbeef]

Try nfs shift or dirt 2 if you can run them iracing too sim

[BadMouth]

Try nfs shift or dirt 2 if you can run them iracing too sim

I have Dirt 2 on the cab, but I've only played it a couple times.  
I was on a pc game kick last month and bought more than a half dozen of them.
(bit of pokerom syndrome)  I keep telling myself that whenever everything else is "done", I'll enjoy the games.
Grid has been on there for months and I've only made it through a couple races.  

However, I did spend over an hour last night trying to beat all three tracks on Sega Rally.  
I still can't get through the last one before time runs out.  

In other news, I think I finally settled on a concept for the cab.
It's going to take its name and artwork from what is supposedly the worst car movie ever made, but I like the name and the artwork.

The name is also used by a ton of companies, so there are other decals and logos out there.
I found this one from a band that I really like.  Might have to borrow it.


I ordered the movie in case there is any more artwork in the extras.
The plan is to make it look like it was a game made by SEGA.

[jsb98]

The plan is to make it look like it was a game made by SEGA.

So you're gonna make it look like crap? 

Just kidding, looks really cool. Good work.

[gbeef]

Hey i found a solution to your button problem cut the button. I have the same ones as you i ran into the same issue there too long. I removed 1/4 inch from them. But the trick is you need to cut them at the base of the button and remove the section right in the middle after your done you need to re-glue everything back together.
Ill post pics in my thread to show you.

[BadMouth]

working on a new MALA layout around the RedLine theme....
Still a WIP, but getting close to what I want.
I plan to use video snaps, but have to make them first.  

EDIT: Updated MALA layout image.  This is pretty much final except for maybe making a frame for the gamelist name above the preview window.
(California Speed is the longest game title in my list, next to Ivan Ironman Stewarts Super Offroad Track Pack.  I didn't feel the need to acommodate the latter)

[dexxy]

Very Nice mala theme and artwork.   Awesome project so far.   I'm going to be starting my driving cab soon so I'm getting lots of inspiration from you and gbeef!

[BadMouth]

Very Nice mala theme and artwork.   Awesome project so far.   I'm going to be starting my driving cab soon so I'm getting lots of inspiration from you and gbeef!

Thanks!  Can't wait to see another driving cab started.
(also can't wait to see gbeef's cab with artwork)
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
I've made most mistakes already.

This evening's minor progress.....

Got a friend to cut the dash panel with the steering hole centered. 

Applied the carbon fiber vinyl and hate it.    (only spent $8 on it and already peeled it off, so not really that upset)
I'd like it better if it were darker, but the dash would still be too plain.
So I guess I'm making artwork for a dashboard and view button panel also.
None of this would be necessary if I'd noticed the Outrun 2 dash had the steering wheel off center. 

The steering wheel is mounted to a 3 to 6 hole adapter which is mounted to a quick release, part of which needs to be welded on yet. 
Eventually I'll be able to pop this wheel off and pop on a different one for 360 degree games.  I've got the general idea in my head, but it will take some time to work out.  Same goes for the paddle shifters.  Idea is in my head, but have to find some materials to re-purpose.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Where'd you get Cf vinyl for $8?  was it 3M dinoc or a flat print? 

[BadMouth]

Where'd you get Cf vinyl for $8?  was it 3M dinoc or a flat print? 

Ordered it off fleabay from a seller in Hong Kong.  (was actually $8 + $4 shipping.  I was thinking shipping was included)
It was the only thing I could find that looked as glossy as I wanted.
There's no texture.  It's not name brand, but seems to be pretty tought stuff.
It doesn't get much more flexible when heated.  I wouldn't use it on anything but flat survaces.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Gloss-Carbon-Fiber-Vinyl-50-X-12-G291-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a6871725fQQitemZ250860368479QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[Malenko]

I kinda like it on the bezel, on the dash is a bit much. I thought you were gonna hook up a real radio in the radio hole.

Why not get some working gauges to put in the dash? like a voltimeter, temp gauge etc that could work with a PC

[TopJimmyCooks]

Thanks for the info.   

[BadMouth]

I kinda like it on the bezel, on the dash is a bit much. I thought you were gonna hook up a real radio in the radio hole.

Wasn't me.  Somebody told gbeef to put an 8-track there.  
The "radio hole" is only about 1.5" deep and has two layers of extremely thick metal behind it that are probably needed for strength.
It would be cool to have a panel with a fake radio that housed a dvd drive and controlled the volume, but there just isn't room for it on this dash.

Why not get some working gauges to put in the dash? like a voltimeter, temp gauge etc that could work with a PC

 

There isn't any depth behind the dash.  The steel frame, happ bracket, feedback motor etc is behind there.
I'm also trying to keep the number of connections between the cp and the cab to a minimum.

It's an arcade machine.  I'm ok with fake gauges.

[BadMouth]

WARNING, LONGWINDED AND PROBABLY IRRELEVANT UNLESS YOU'RE GEARING UP TO BUILD A DRIVING CAB AND HACKING AN OPTICAL WHEEL OR GOING FOR 270 DEGREE AND 360 DEGREE SUPPORT.

A few longtime members have mentioned that they were gearing up to build driving cabs.
I thought I'd throw some information, random ideas, & warnings out there.
(mostly random long-winded rambling...and you might not follow it if you haven't read my driving cab and wheel hacking threads)

The main thing is that I don't want anyone copying the way I'm doing my current CP without knowing about it's shortcomings and kinks that I haven't worked out yet.


OPTICAL PC WHEEL HACK:

First up, if you're using real arcade controls, the newer PC optical wheel hack is a PITA to setup and have calibrate correctly.  
Hacking a potentiometer based wheel is so much easier (just swap out the pot).

If you go the optical route though, the trick is that the onscreen stops in the windows controller setting must correspond to the real life stops for the wheel to
calibrate properly.  This is accomplished by having the perfect encoder wheel or having the stops in the right place.
I ended up with neither, so here's the ugly hack to correct it:

The bolts act as the stops now and are built up so the physical stops correspond with the stops on screen.
Not as much rotation was lost as it looks like.  Maybe 1-1.5" in each direction.  It still feels like a 270 degree wheel.
I checked with US digital about ordering a different encoder wheel for my optical encoder, but they said that the sensors are spaced differently for different wheels
and would have to be replaced too.  The total cost was as much as a new encoder.  This mess works, but I'd like it done a better way.
I'm currently using a 900CPR encoder.  I think my original guess of 600CPR would have been closer.  Maybe it's something in between?  I give up for now.

Even if I had the perfect encoder, my happ wheel turned farther in one direction than the other?!
The original happ parts are slotted so the center position of the wheel can't be changed. It still would have required a bumper added to one side for the wheel to
center properly after calibrating.  I'm using a weld-on fixture for a real steering wheel, so if I had the perfect encoder wheel or were using a potentiometer, I could just weld it at the correct center point between the two stops, even if they were asymetrical.  It currently calibrates and works fine, but I'd like to redo it a better way at some point.

The super expensive FREX GP wheel uses a screw drive with a plate that moves forward and backward as the wheel is spun.
It has a bolt on each end that act as the stop.  The bolts can be screwed in or out to adjust the limits.
I think this would be the way to go about hacking a G27 and allow for it's 900 degrees of rotation.  
In fact the newer FREX GPs use a logitech G27 PCB.



SERVO AMP FOR ARCADE FFB MOTOR

Others have used this method (Mark Shaker and thesharkfactor). See the driving cab thread for links.
For the most part it's working as it should, but I am having a couple issues...

If I don't enable centering FFB, the wheel drifts to the left until it reaches the stops.
If I do enable it, upon startup the wheel will shake slightly left and right until I grab it, at which point is stops.
Not sure if it's just bouncing itself past the center point and correcting for it or what.

Out of the box, the FFB doesn't feel as correct as the original PC wheel.  It could just be that everything is magnified and stronger, therefore more noticeable.
I had to spend a fair amount of time tweaking the FFB settings in Model 2 emulator to get it to feel right.



360/270 DEGREE COMBO THOUGHTS

This is my holy grail, but I'm torn between a few different ways of going about it.
I was hoping that the optical pc wheel hack might lead to one optical encoder doing double duty by simultaneously sending signals to both the hacked pc wheel and a
different interface for 360 degrees.  This won't work, as the pc wheel recalibrates whenever the wheel travels past where the stops should be and messes up the center
point.

One idea if using a potentiometer based wheel is to use a continuous rotation pot.  It's just like a regular pot, but doesn't have internal stops.
Granted if you turn the wheel farther than 360 degrees, it will suddenly be seen as being all the way in the opposite direction.  A physical stop that's only in place
for 270 degree games could prevent that.  Add an optical encoder wheel in there somewhere and you've got it doing double duty.
Next time around, I'm considering using a slip ring and a hollow steering shaft.  This would allowfor buttons and paddle shifters on a 360 degree wheel.  The Happ steering shaft is stepped up and down in size between 5/8" & 3/4".  It's 5/8" for the most part, but steps up to 3/4" between where the wheel bolts on and it enters the bearing.  This keeps everything spaced correctly.  The bearing could be swapped out for one with a 3/4" center to allow for the 3/4" hollow shaft linked to.  (More ideas than time or money)

My current plan (which might change) is to have two different wheels that attach via a quick-release steering hub.
The 270 degree wheel will be a modern wheel with buttons and paddle shifters.  
The 360 degree wheel will be an old school chrome 3-spoke model, preferably with evenly spaced spokes so there isn't a discernable center point.
(although the wheel used on Pole Position had a definite center point, which is odd since the center point in the game is reset to the wheel's current position whenever you crash) This will require me to have some kind of disconnect for the wiring in the wheel.
I've thought about making the 360 wheel self contained, based on a wireless mouse.
I might want to have it wired though, allowing that axis to be used for yoke/star wars type controls if I want to add them later.
The yoke from Hyperdrive would probably work well for Star Wars, STUN Runner, and futuristic racing games that require a Y axis.
There are also some console racing games like XGRA that require a Y axis.
I also considered adding a flight stick that flips up from under the seat, but after testing it out found that I just didn't like any of the fighter jet games enough to bother with it.

 
VIEW/RADIO BUTTONS

The sega Model 2 games had 4 view buttons.
The Cruis'n games had 3 view buttons and a radio button.
So 4 buttons will cover you if that's all you have room for.

OTHER THOUGHTS:

I've always been curious about hacking the Thrustmaster RGT FFB Clutch
It claims to have 5 axis.  Two of the paddles are analogue and can double as the gas and brake if the pedals aren't connected.
It would be nice to get all the controls seen as a single controller.  The U-HID can handle this, but lacks force feedback.
I'm not sure if this wheel is potentiometer or optical based or if thrustmaster has software similar to logitech profiler (which has been beyond useful when setting up other emulators).

[BurgerKingDiamond]

I like the plain stainless for the dash.

[gbeef]

Very nice on the carbon fiber work.

[BadMouth]

I like the plain stainless for the dash.

It's aluminum.  I considered trying to polish it, but it would still look pretty plain.

Very nice on the carbon fiber work.

That particular vinyl turned out to be too light and too checkerboard looking for me.
I ordered the 3M stuff TopJimmyCooks mentioned.  I think I might like the look of it better.
Was cheap and only ordered 1 square ft.  
As long as I don't mess it up, that's all I'll need.

To keep it from looking too plain, I'm going to mount real LEDs in the places where the original sega panel had drawn ones.
They shouldn't require hardly any depth if I use bare LEDs.
I also picked up some translucent red and carbon fiber toggle switch covers.

Since I have umpteen unused connections on the key-wiz, I thought about installing a few momentary toggle switches (return to center), then labelling them as brake bias +/- etc and mapping them as such in racing sims.  Not sure I'd ever use them though.

This CP is as much experimentation as anything.  I still have a lot of ideas floating around.  Not sure where it will end up.
The new MALA layout looks like crap on the CRT TV currently in the cab.  The game list is unreadable.  
(My current layout that uses different colors and bigger fonts looks fine)

I had a spare 32" LCD TV that I thinking about using, but decided to install it behind my bar as a 2nd TV for football season.  

[BadMouth]

I like the 3M stuff much better.......

It's all one color, but textured.  It's also perforated, so no chasing out air bubbles.

I came across the white lottery machine buttons cheap, so I bought them to make sure they'd work.
They'll be replaced by colored ones eventually, but the regular price is $12/button.  
The white doesn't look bad with the white gauges, maybe I'll learn to like it better.

Need to get to work on the buttons and decal for the top section.

[drventure]

Nice. I think once you put decals in the white buttons, they'll look quite nice with that dash...

[Nephasth]

That's looking great! Have you thought about using colored LEDs for those white buttons?

[BadMouth]

That's looking great! Have you thought about using colored LEDs for those white buttons?

Thought about it, but figured it would result in pastel colors.   
I actually already have the colored LEDs, so it's no trouble to try it.

The standard bulbs in my current buttons get pretty warm.
Nothing to worry about, but I wanted to use LEDs this time around.
Bought colored ones because I thought it would illuminate the colored buttons more evenly.

[BadMouth]

Hadn't messed with the new CP for a few weeks because the way I had the steering stops done just wasn't acceptable.
(see pic a few posts back)
I didn't want to put any more work into it if was going to be inferior to what I already have.
The upcoming release of Supermodel emulator v2 motivated me to get back on it.

I bought a digital protractor and measured how much travel the wheel had with those stops (243 degrees) and that allowed me to calculate what encoder I would need to use the full 270 degrees.  Oddly enough, the original happ stops allow for exactly 270 degrees.  It came out to exactly 800CPR, which I thought was too even of a number to be correct. 
US Digital doesn't offer that resolution, but I was lucky enough to find one on ebay for a decent price.  I hooked it up this evening and the wheel is dead on perfect with the original happ stops.  I won't have to build them up, grind them down, or anything.  It's back to the full 270 degrees.

I now feel confident recommending the momo hack if you can get your hands on an 800CPR encoder (hacking a potentiometer based wheel is still easier, but they're getting harder to find).


The other issue I had that was taking the wind out of my sails was the odd behavior of the FFB.  If the centering spring were disabled, the wheel would slowly drift to one side until it hit the stops.  Also when the centering spring was enabled, it felt slightly harder to turn in one direction than the other.   I decided to fiddle with some of the adjustments on the servo amp that I don't really understand.  Adjusting the TEST/OFFSET pot got rid of both these issues.   

So I got the full 270 degree range back and arcade strength FFB is a go! 

[SNAAKE]

digging that carbon fiber vinyl thingy(is that what its called lol?)

[NiN^_^NiN]

Fantastic job so far good to see you pushed to sort the issues out.
Wish i could have FFB on mine.

I do love the carbon fiber it works very well and i actually like the white button it's a nice contract I think if you had some icons under them it would blend in better than the coloured buttons.

Great job so far can't wait to see it progress even more 

[Rick]

OMG, I love this build!!!  And you've given me inspiration for one of my future builds as well...  ...when I get more room.     (If all works out, might have a gameroom in the next few years - fingers crossed!)  I would totally build a driving cab around KITT.  The repro dash and steering are easy enough to find, and the buttons on the console would be pretty simple to get working.  (OMG, imagine Spy Hunter with working triggers on the steering.  Unreal.)

Sorry - I just don't think I've ever seen a driving cab with as much cool as yours.  It's amazing.  (So much so, that it seems to make me go on and on.)

 

[BadMouth]

OMG, I love this build!!!  And you've given me inspiration for one of my future builds as well...  ...when I get more room.     (If all works out, might have a gameroom in the next few years - fingers crossed!)  I would totally build a driving cab around KITT.  The repro dash and steering are easy enough to find, and the buttons on the console would be pretty simple to get working.  (OMG, imagine Spy Hunter with working triggers on the steering.  Unreal.)

Sorry - I just don't think I've ever seen a driving cab with as much cool as yours.  It's amazing.  (So much so, that it seems to make me go on and on.)

 

um....it's still just a repainted VO cab with a pc wheel and sf rush pedals implanted.
After I finish this CP, it will be a VO cab with an Outrun 2 dash in it. 
I think the people who built their cabs from scratch deserve a lot more credit than me. 

When I get the paddle shifters and swappable 360 degree wheel finished, then I'll have something to be proud of. 
I'm currently working on the paddle shifters and it's going well.  I should have something to show by tonight.

[Rick]

um....it's still just a repainted VO cab with a pc wheel and sf rush pedals implanted.
After I finish this CP, it will be a VO cab with an Outrun 2 dash in it.    I think the people who built their cabs from scratch deserve a lot more credit than me.  When I get the paddle shifters and swappable 360 degree wheel finished, then I'll have something to be proud of.    I'm currently working on the paddle shifters and it's going well.  I should have something to show by tonight.

You're minimalizing, as your work is great.  Don't cut yourself short!  (Still awesome.)  I like it.

[BadMouth]

Doesn't look like much, but spent my entire day off working on this (and running around town not finding parts).

Made this little bracket out of 1/4" ABS


It drops in the 3 hole to 6 hole steering wheel adapter like so.....


The shoddy paddle shifter in the picture is made from a plastic plate.  I thought this was a good idea to make the paddles from a plastic plate to give them a little curvature.  It turned out to be too flimsy.  I will be going with aluminum paddles.
The spring is out of a happ pushbutton and has been cut down. 
There will be a button mounted in the steering wheel that will pass through the spring and out the back of the paddle.


(scrap piece of plastic used as the paddle for testing)

I spent several hours trying to get the shape of the paddles just right.
Originally, I wanted Ferrari F430 paddles, but they covered up the view of the gauges (not that they do anything).
Because the wheel is so small, everything either felt too small in my hands, blocked the gauges on the dash, or got in the way when not using them.

Here is what I ended up with:

Pretty basic, but I like it.  Not sure about putting the words at the bottom.

Now I just have to track down some 1/8" or 3/16" aluminum to make the real ones out of.
If they turn out good, I'll check into having the + and - engraved on them.
......actually, I'll just keep making them until I get a good pair 

[BadMouth]

Made a walk-through of my cab for the people over on Supermodel3.  
I don't have much in the way of editing skills, aside from pressing pause.

Here's the drinking game:  drink each time I use the word "actually"
(I'm ashamed, but I ain't redoing it)

Walk-through in it's current form:


New control panel WIP:


20 minutes of gameplay  

[Malenko]

Looks incredible bro, a real inspiration.  If you had to start all over again, which wheel would you go with? Im considering building abracing cab but im VERY unsure what wheel would work best  im the kinda guy that wants to play datona, cruis'n usa and pole position without too much hassle between games

[BadMouth]

Looks incredible bro, a real inspiration.  If you had to start all over again, which wheel would you go with? Im considering building abracing cab but im VERY unsure what wheel would work best  im the kinda guy that wants to play datona, cruis'n usa and pole position without too much hassle between games

If it's within your skill set and you want arcade ffb, I'd use an original sega model 2 ffb setup with this hack (It doesn't work with newer SEGA ffb motors):
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.gamoover.net/tuto/l2m2-interfacer-un-ffb-et-volant-sega-model-12-avec-un-pc-ou-une-playstation-23
It's a bit over my head, but I'd get it done eventually. 
I didn't even know this was possible until a few weeks ago, when driving cab enthusiasts started gathering around the new Supermodel emulator.
Retrorepair (the guy who gave me the link) has used both the servo amp and this method.
He says this method feels more true to the original arcade.  If I were starting again, I'd go this route.

If you want to keep it simple and drop a pc wheel in, I'd go for the Logitech G27 or whatever Logitech comes out with next.  Prices have dropped to just over $200 for the G27.  It has mounting points to bolt it down instead of using the clamps.  The thing with Logitech wheels (or logitech hacks) is that you get to use Logitech Profiler, which can adjust all settings on a per exe basis.  The settings change automatically whenever the exe is running.  It would suck to have to go into the control panel and windows and change the combine/separate pedals setting between running different emulators.  It also helps with the sensitivity on console emulators.

I've always wondered if the Thrustmaster RGT Clutch comes with similar software.  The wheel itself doesn't have great reviews, but it's potentiometer based, has a clutch, & has an extra analogue axis that could be used for an e-brake.  It would be a pretty good candidate for hacking if it came with something like profiler.

I should also mention that I really like the way my cab is now with the MOMO wheel. 
My primary motivation for switching to an arcade wheel (besides my compulsive need for tinkering) is that my guests treat the poor little MOMO wheel like it is a real steering wheel. 
They lift themselves in and out of the cab with it and continue trying to turn it when it's already at it's limits. 
It's loosened up a little bit, but has taken the abuse so far.

[BadMouth]

im the kinda guy that wants to play datona, cruis'n usa and pole position without too much hassle between games

Just caught that.
Pole position is not playable with any wheel that has limited rotation.
When you wreck the car, the center point is reset to whatever position the wheel is in.
Even with a 900 degree G27, it doesn't work well.

I've come up with ideas for solutions, but they all had shortcomings.
One problem is that I was insistent on having paddle shifters on the wheel.
I finally settled on swappable wheels.  

EDIT: The simplest way I have come up with to have a combo wheel is to have both a continuous rotation potentiometer and a hollow bore optical encoder on the steering shaft.  The only problem with that solution is that if you turn the wheel more than 360 degrees while in a 270 degree game, the game will see the wheel as suddenly being turned all the way in the opposite direction.  Maybe a stop can be engaged and disengaged (preferably automatically) while in those games.

I decided on swappable wheels so I could go ahead and get the 270 degree one done now and work on the 360 later.
(and sometime down the road.....a star wars style yoke ....and maybe a flight stick...or twin flight sticks for virtual on....or....    )

[BadMouth]

It's been way too long since I posted any progress on the new dash.
The main problem was that I really really liked my driving cab the way it was.
To force myself to make some progress, I decided to tear down the cab this morning.
The tv had to be removed so a space could be cut out for the ffb motor to pas through.

Even though I have other PC wheels, I won't allow myself to play any driving games until I put my cab back together.

So here it is.....


After cutting out a hole for the ffb motor to pass through, the brackets still wouldn't slide into place because the plastic dash overhangs on each side.
I guess the Virtual On brackets that I have are different than what was used on the driving cabs because the bolt holes weren't anywhere close to lining up with the dash sticking out that far.


This isn't really a huge problem, but it made a gap underneath the dash and put the top of the dash farther away from the monitor than I wanted.
So, I trimmed off the overhang so it would fit in between the sides of the cab.  This plastic can crack and chip when cutting it.  I wouldn't recommend anyone else do it, but I was determined to make progress.
AFTER:


There is still going to be a gap between the back of the dash and the monitor, but I'll make a cover.
It will actually be handy to have access to the servo amp while setting it up.


Here are the video lottery terminal (VLT) buttons that I'm using for view buttons.
The terminals have to be bent slightly to get them to fit.  (they were $60 from Happ    )
Kinda wish I'd got the medium rectangle instead of the squares.  They'd be about the same size as the original Sega buttons.

Managed to flush mount the credit button, but still have to figure out where to mount the exit button.
Then I need to get all my labels designed and send them off to Pongo for cutting.

[BadMouth]

Spent a large part of my Saturday on the wiring.  It took forever because I wanted to make sure that I could detach the view button panel if needed, and could detach the dashboard from the cab without having to fish wires through the cab.  I went through a lot of molex connectors. 


Finally picked mounting spots for the exit and radio buttons.
The white VLT buttons I had were shallow enough to fit between the plastic dash and metal bracket if the tabs were bent.
I plan to eventually get an orange oval VLT button for the radio.
(I put down a few layers of electrical tape between them and the metal bracket.)


Back in the cab:
I forgot to put bulbs back in the exit and radio buttons before installing them.
The colored buttons look awesome with colored LEDs inside.
I still need to design the inserts and have them cut out.
...and I can't find my steering wheel horn button. 


And that's where things took a turn for the worse....  :'(

First problem...ffb not working.  I had pushed against a capacitor on the MOMO board and when I bent it back, it felt loose.  I removed the MOMO board and resoldered the cap.  It still felt loose, so I thought maybe I had messed up the connection inside the cap somehow.  I had a pile of caps from a "TV repair cap kiit" that I had only used a few caps out of and was lucky enough to find the one I needed.  So I replaced the cap and reinstalled the MOMO board.
Still nothing.    A pile of tests later I discover that the MOMO board doesn't like getting it's 12v from the PC power supply for some reason.
I don't understand why.  My volt meter shows 12V either way.  The wall wart I'm using is only half an amp.  But in the end, it just works with the wall wart, but not the PC power.

Then I discover the next problem...and it is a major one.  Whenever the game does "shaking" ffb, like going accross the grass in daytona, my wheel loses it's center point and goes out of calibration!  Never had this issue during testing with the dashboard sitting on top of a desk.  Thinking that the optic encoder shaft was slipping due to the quick movements, I cranked the set screw as tight as I could get it, but it made no difference.  I'm not sure what is happening.  Guess I'll tear it back down this evening and put a flat spot on the encoder shaft for the set screw to go against.  I really don't think it's slipping though.  I think either the encoder wheel is slipping on the shaft inside the encoder, or the encoder wheel is just vibrating so hard that the sensor is mis-reading it as turning when it isn't.

I really wanted to hack a newer optical pc wheel since it hadn't been done, but so far it's cost me hundreds of dollars in trial and error and untold hours...and it's not working. 

Guess maybe I'll figure out something tonight.
Just in case, I ordered a driving force EX like everyone else has used.
I'd have to rewire my shifter and steering wheel to use it though, because of the weird way the MOMO buttons were wired.

Part of me really just wants to buy a sim chair for in front of the living room TV and be done with it.
 

[Minions]

Keep at it. One of the biggest things I learned making my cab was how to salvage things, or work around problems, and not to give up.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Take a step back or work on something else for a couple of weeks.  come back fresh, you'll lick the problem. 

[BadMouth]

quick update.....

I messed around with it this evening and figured out that it was slipping when quickly turned left.
I tried to tighten the set screw more and ended up breaking it off. 
Spent the next hour getting what was left of the set screw back out.
After that, I took apart the encoder and the wheel just fell out of it.
Looks like it was only held on by glue. 

Not 100% convinced that this was the problem because it doesn't look like the disc would have stayed in place without being glued there.
The end of the shaft has a little flange that keeps it centered, but it's only as thick as the disc and there is room on the other side for it to fall off.

Gonna ponder a better method for attaching it and research epoxies.

[ScottoKong]

Sad to hear about your problems.

I thought I blew my build up last night - adjusting wiring with it in the cab.  Managed to confuse myself and reversed the psu going to the servo, and managed to pull the wires to the servo out of the logitech board in the process without realising it at first!

Fortunately after an hour later I was back in action with my wheel pot properly wired.
Still got the shakes in Sega Rally though.  Daytona is still AWESOME!!!

Scott

[BadMouth]

Still got the shakes in Sega Rally though. 

If you are talking about the wheel shaking before you start a race.....it just does that.
It does it no matter what wheel you are using and it can't be changed.

I'm not sure if the original arcade machine did that or not.

[BadMouth]

Update, no pics.

I used JB Weld on the optical encoder disc to make sure that it wasn't slipping. 
The encoder didn't work when I put it back together.  I don't know what I did to it. 

I bought a Logitech Driving Force EX and tore it down.  I'm making notes so hopefully I can do a write-up on hacking it. 
It's a little different than the Driving Force that Mark Shaker and Brad808 used. Pretty sure it's the same one thesharkfactor used. 
I picked up the pots for it this evening, but I'm still not sure whether I'll use it or stick with the MOMO.
If I do switch to the pot-based wheel, I'll have to swap out the pots in my pedals and redo all the wiring in my shifter & steering wheel.

I haven't been able to find another optical encoder with the correct line count at a reasonable price.
There is the option of limiting the wheel to a bit less than 270 degrees and using the 900CPR encoder that I started with.
I'm tempted to do it at least temporarily just to make sure that the optical wheel hack does work.

On top of that, ramjetr and retrorepair have figured out how to hook up the lamp outputs in Model 2 emulator, so now I need to rewire all my lighting to take advantage of that.

I don't know when I'll be able to make any real progress, but I miss playing on the driving cab. 
 

[gbeef]

That sucks about the encoder. Please take notes on the new hack. my whole machine is on limbo cuz i cant figure the wheel wiggle issue i have the exact same wheel as you.

[ScottoKong]

Hi Guys

This is crazy - with all your advice I've got my wheel working great!
Hope you both get it sorted soon

Scott

[BadMouth]

Hi Guys

This is crazy - with all your advice I've got my wheel working great!
Hope you both get it sorted soon

Scott

I'm glad yours is working great.  It means that it's possible!  
 

I probably won't have time to mess with it until Saturday.
I may start a few new projects, which isn't a good idea with so many  left unfinished.  
....but I have to work on what I feel like working on, otherwise I won't do anything at all.

EDIT: currently listening to Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune 3 OST by Yuzo Koshiro 

[ScottoKong]

I know what you mean about not getting things finished!

My half finished 4 player mame cabinet hasn't been touched for ages - but I have decided on a theme for the artwork at least (in a moment of inspiration!!!)

I've gotta order my ipac4 and buttons and joysticks this weekend with the Aussie dollar at US$1.07 - CRAZY GOOD

As for my racing cab - it's not finished.
My next big hurdle is the monitor. 

I can either decase a 26" CRT TV or cut up the cab and drop in a 32" TV.
I have been thinking about going to a 40" - would be killer for light guns too 

[o0X0o]

Hi,

I saw in another thread that you are using Outrun 2006 C2C and Crazy Taxi 3 - I'm having lots of trouble getting my wheel configured as the configuration tools for both crash on me, and there is almost no info on how to manually edit the ini files. I've done some googling and can see it's a common problem, but no solutions.

Did you have any issues, and do you have any tips on getting these working?

EDIT: I found that setting the config tool for CT3 to run in XP SP3 compatibility mode allowed it to work without crashing. It still has 2 problems though:
.   1) the in-game menu is constantly scrolling like a key is being pressed/held (same problem in Outrun).
.   2) I can't seem to seperate the brake and accellerator - one one pedal works and if it's not touched the brake is on, and if depressed it accellerates

I've checked the Windows game controller tool/properties, and the wheel and pedal seem to work fine and be calibrated

[ant2]

I could never get craxy taxi3  PC version to work with my throttle and brake. It kept holding the brake pedal down, even when i changed the logitech profiler to separate pedals etc.

I ended up setting the clutch axis to my throttle and the brake as brake.

[BadMouth]

Hi,

I saw in another thread that you are using Outrun 2006 C2C and Crazy Taxi 3 - I'm having lots of trouble getting my wheel configured as the configuration tools for both crash on me, and there is almost no info on how to manually edit the ini files. I've done some googling and can see it's a common problem, but no solutions.

Did you have any issues, and do you have any tips on getting these working?

EDIT: I found that setting the config tool for CT3 to run in XP SP3 compatibility mode allowed it to work without crashing. It still has 2 problems though:
.   1) the in-game menu is constantly scrolling like a key is being pressed/held (same problem in Outrun).
.   2) I can't seem to seperate the brake and accellerator - one one pedal works and if it's not touched the brake is on, and if depressed it accellerates

I've checked the Windows game controller tool/properties, and the wheel and pedal seem to work fine and be calibrated

Oops, guess I missed this post.

To get the pedals to calibrate, I had to hold down the brake while calibrating the gas. 
If it doesn't ask you to calibrate the brake after doing the gas, the calibration of the gas pedal has failed.
No idea what's causing it, but it worked properly after that.

[o0X0o]

Hi,

Thanks for the calibration tip. I wont get a chance to try it for a few days, but will post back with the result.

Ands thanks for compiling the driving cab guide - it's the single most useful resource I have found anywhere on the topic!

[ant2]

still couldnt get crazy taxi3 to work, the brake pedal is constanyl held down in game.

like i said i ended up using the clutch+brake instead for throttle and gas

[o0X0o]

Sorry for the delay. Finally had a chance to try your suggestions and no joy...

Since I last posted I have picked up a new wheel and now the CT3 config tool will only run if compatibilty mode is turned off (go figure...). Mapping buttons on the wheel seems to work fine, but pressing the 'calibrate pedals' button makes the config tool hang. Think I'll just give up on CT3...

On the upside however, the new wheel seems to have made Outrun C2C work perfectly!

It's been a few months since your last update - hope you've got your own wheel issues sorted BadMouth!

[Hunk_4TH]

Don't mean to bump. But I hope you know the PC version of Outrun 2006 doesn't support FFB I don't think CT3 does either which is a shame.

[Well Fed Games]

Don't mean to bump. But I hope you know the PC version of Outrun 2006 doesn't support FFB I don't think CT3 does either which is a shame.

No kidding. I've got a wheel and legit boxed copies of both of those (Sega Rally, too) and the wheel support (especially FFB & pedals) is so half-assed I gave up any attempt to use them in a cab. A real shame.

[ant2]

hey badmouth, did you get the front end sorted out in the end?

always interested to see what others have done.

[mcseforsale]

Subscribed.

AJ

[BadMouth]

hey badmouth, did you get the front end sorted out in the end?

always interested to see what others have done.

It's the same as what's earlier in this thread, but I changed the text to white because it is easier to read on the CRT TV.
Not sure why, but the red text looks great on an LCD and horrible on a low res CRT. 



If you're referring to the new dashboard instead of the software front-end, it's sitting on the floor and I'm using the old dash in the cab.
I got a new optical encoder for it.  I want to switch over to a smaller AVR encoder and add a kew-wiz so the VR buttons light as they should. 
Already have all the parts, just need the time.  Also have a smaller gear for the feedback motor shaft that I think might reduce the centering wobble most people experience when doing the happ ffb/servo amp hack.  There are a couple alternatives to the servo amp I'd also like to try while everything is easily accessible.

Have three other projects that I need to wrap up before getting back to the driving cab though.   

[BadMouth]

I picked up an Initial D cab cheap (if you don't count gas).

Almost a shame to not use more of it, but I've decided that I'm going to build twin LCD cabs using the bases of it and my current cab.
They will be similar in style to GeeBeef's cab.  The front floor section on the Initial D cab is a bit different, but can easily be converted to match the Virtual-On.



Both cabs will be identical. 
The initial D cab included two sets of Sega pedals, but the brake felt too stiff to me so I ordered another set of Happ Pedals w/clutch like I have in the current cab.
I'm going to buy matching racing seats.
Hopefully I'll find another Virtual-On seat base so they will both be the same height.
I'd prefer to stick with that base because the taller height works good with the Happ SF Rush 2049 Pedals and there is plenty of surface area on the side of it to mount a hand brake.

The front-part will be made from scratch.  What size LCD is used will depend on what I find a deal on.
I need some larger TVs in my bar for watching football, so I'm also considering just mounting the TV to the wall and wheeling the cab away when I want to use them for football. 

Another crazy idea I had was picking up a third, then having the screens of #1 and #3 hinged on one edge so they can be swung out to form a triple screen sim setup on #2. Not sure if it will get that crazy.  I already have two mismatched 32" LCD TVs that could be used.

Not sure what I'm doing for dashboards yet.  I have two pcbs from Logitech Momo's as interfaces and two Ketz shifters.
Also found someone on ebay selling vlt buttons that are the same size as the original view buttons, so I bought three sets of those.
(they are sold out of one of the colors now).  I didn't like trying to shoehorn everything into the original Sega dash, so I'll probably do something more custom.

This project is low priority compared to the other three I have going (if you only count arcade related ones).
I'll continue to buy parts, but probably won't get into building stuff for another month.

[BadMouth]

Just when I was about to give up on having twins, the matching seat base I've been looking for in vain turns up.
(along with a matching seat, although I plan to add real car seats at some point)

[TopJimmyCooks]

Congratulations to prince and princess badmouth on the arrival of the royal twins. 

[SegaOutrun]

Nice! I wish I had the cash a project like this.

I also wish you were nearby, I would pickup that Initial D seat from you.

[BadMouth]

Congratulations to prince and princess badmouth on the arrival of the royal twins.

So sick of hearing about royal baby crap...and I'm in the U.S. 

Nice! I wish I had the cash a project like this.

I also wish you were nearby, I would pickup that Initial D seat from you.

Yeah, I wish I had cash for a project like this too! 

I had to give up on building a wicked new PC. 
I already have another PC identical to the one in the current cab, so it makes more sense just to use those.
I just dropped $60 on a pair of refurb 9800GT cards in hopes that they play the PC games better than the 8600GT that's in there now.
Pretty sure that's the best card I can use with the motherboards and power supplies that I already have.
I'm not going to get away with running the games at low resolutions anymore once I switch over to the 32" LCD TVs.

The seat has some small cracks at the top.  I'll be listing it in B/S/T around the middle of this week if anyone is interested.
I'll also have the medium resolution monitor out of the Initial D, but I have to make a power cord for it and figure out how to test it first.

[Fursphere]

I tried my 8800GT with Dirt3 and it sucked.  Bad.   (the 9800GT is the same as the 8800GT, just a smaller more efficient chip energy wise).   Same problem with the newer Need For Speed games.

I mean it works, but you have to seriously drop the video quality down.  I also tried dropping my GTX 460 into my Core2Duo 3ghz system to see if the video card was enough - and it wasn't.

Hence the reason I use my GTX 460 / i5 system with the driving cabinet.

But if you're playing older games, you'll be just fine.

[BadMouth]

Rest In Pieces 9/4/2013   

[CoryBee]

WHAT DID YOU DO!!!

[yotsuya]

He's planning to turn a Computer Space into his new racing cab.

[Fursphere]

Omg!   

Can't wait to see what's coming next.

[Nephasth]

Um... Expecting twins? Did you abort both of them?

[BadMouth]

Um... Expecting twins? Did you abort both of them?

A lot of parts of both of them are in that pile. 
I'd say they were being reborn, but the only thing I'm using from the originals are the bases and Initial D side panels.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,134375.0.html 

[PL1]

WHAT DID YOU DO!!!

Exactly what he said he'd do.

Um... Expecting twins? Did you abort both of them?

I picked up an Initial D cab cheap (if you don't count gas).

Almost a shame to not use more of it, but I've decided that I'm going to build twin LCD cabs using the bases of it and my current cab.

Scott

[Nephasth]

Thanks for the cliff notes, Scott!

[yotsuya]

TL;DR