Arcade Collecting > Pinball
STERN vs. WMS Industries... Let's have it out.
Jeff AMN:
--- Quote from: RayB on June 06, 2010, 02:05:04 pm ---Jeff, is that before or after multiple software patches? I keep hearing about buggy or incomplete software in first editions releases from Stern.
--- End quote ---
Look at how many revisions Data East, Bally, Williams, and Gottlieb games went through. Most pins do not ship with their final software update. Some games never officially get fnished, such as Cirqus Voltaire, Cactus Canyon, or Wheel of Fortune.
shardian:
I've been under the hood of every company except Capcom now. Currently I have 2 Williams WPC games, a system 9, a DE, and a Gottlieb System 3. I've also had the pleasure of owning a Stern S.A.M. title. I think I am more than qualified to give opinions on the subject.
Williams: They have good and bad - mostly good. The WPC boardset is great. System 9 is not so great, which is why they quickly dropped it. They were plagued over several board sets with seemingly the same issues. Why they couldn't figure their GI out is beyond me. Maybe they didn't give a crap. There is this almost mystical aura around the Williams name that gets propagated in pinball circles. They're good, but not near as good as some will have you thinking. Jim is right about the flippers too. I HATE the feel of the flippers on my Whodunnit!
Data East: Good and bad here too of course. Their is definitely a 'cheap' feeling on a Data East. They chintzed on alot of things. There is something...off feeling about the DMD animations on a Data East. They feel cheap, too fast... I don't know. All I know is they are not as satisfying as a Williams DMD. The boardset in a DE is where they probably do deserve flak. This second go-round I am much more comfortable. Some of the problem though is that Clay's guides fall WAY short here of the detail in other brands. The CPU troubleshooting section is pretty much laughable. Same for the PSU troubleshooting. I've experienced more than a few symptoms that aren't even remotely hinted at in there. I'm forced to spend hours on RGP and piece together little bits of info and hit tons of dead ends. Another bad aspect is the schematics. Man...total crap. There isn't even a parts list!!! Williams has a separate book for schematics. Playfield art is always sub-par on a DE. I'll never understand why they let what are obviously just SKETCHES pass as final artwork. It's almost like they asked an artists for proof on concepts and then just said 'thanks, this is good enough'.
There is a few positives about Data East. First, themes. They cornered the market on licensed themes in the 90's. They introduced many innovative pin functions, so they were pushing the envelope. That costs money, and that will have hiccups. The other pin manufacturers stood on Data East's shoulders and improved on these innovations. Something I never see mentioned but I feel obligated to mention - playfield finish. I've had two DE DMD titles. Both have obviously had a ton of plays. Both also have ZERO wear. I would put the finish quality of a DE up against any Diamond plate Williams title.
Gottlieb: They've always been top-notch on playfield components. They've always drug up the rear on innovation, themes, and hardware/software. I am currently digging into a Freddy pin. Dang, their system 3 is definitely border line military spec as has been mentioned! The smart switch tech is great - frikking strain gauge switches dude! Being a mechanical engineer, I find that sooo geeky cool. Since their sys1 and sys80 edge connectors were so bad and widely panned, they went to the absolute best the market could provide. While cool and all, it renders my supply of .156 headers, pins, and housings useless.... They even had the foresight to abandon AA's and go with lithium batteries. How cool is that? I really believe Gottlieb could have ran away with the game if they had a bit different leadership in the marketing department. Their hardware was top-notch. Their reliability was a cut above. They went above and beyond the call to provide long term operator friendly design implementation...then they threw it all away on HORRIBLE licenses and themes. I find this a bigger tragedy than the failure of pin2k. They had dug such a huge hole and let DE and Bally/Williams steal so much of the market that they couldn't dig out.
Stern: The S.A.M. boardset is awesome. Anyone who says otherwise is a numb nuts fanboy. The art and playfield quality is definitely sub-par. My PotC definitely looked like someone had laid down an inkjet paper overlay and clearcoated over it. All of their playfields look/feel like this. Their components haven't changed since the DE days. When I was working on Lethal Weapon and PotC side by side, there were a ton of similarities. Most of the part #'s were exactly the same. It's a 2 sided coin though. The positive is that parts can be dirt cheap and be off-the-shelf. There just isn't a market anymore for all new components. Stern really doesn't have a choice. Honestly I don't know what the hell Xiaou is talking about on sound quality. Maybe his experiences is with a badly adjusted route game? PotC has AWESOME sound quality! I was disappointed that Disney royally screwed Stern on what they gave them for the theme, but what can you do in that case with a deadline? They made the best of it they could.
I guess I've went on long enough.
Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---Spider-Man has some fantastic rules too. The way for getting multipliers built up and then applied to shots of your choosing is pretty fantastic. I can't think of any games that do it quite like that.
--- End quote ---
So, in your opinion, deep rules make up for crappy gameplay? Crappy art, crappy
sound, and more? Guess what? Most people disagree with this. (especially on location)
My "Crappy Software" comment was partly due to the constant "Repeating Sound FX".
In Williams games, sound bytes are not based merely on what you hit... but based more
on modes. This way, you dont hear the same comments cutting into each other,
over and over again, till your ears bleed.
Also, Sterns probably have the most Required software updates of any mfg.
--- Quote ---I don't know what the hell Xiaou is talking about on sound quality. Maybe his experiences is with a badly adjusted route game?
--- End quote ---
Or maybe your ears are in rough shape... unable to hear the difference between
a $120 headphone, and a $20 headphone. Sterns sound muffled, and flat. No dynamic
range at all. (not to mention, they are Mono)
shardian:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on June 07, 2010, 08:11:35 pm ---
Or maybe your ears are in rough shape... unable to hear the difference between
a $120 headphone, and a $20 headphone. Sterns sound muffled, and flat. No dynamic
range at all. (not to mention, they are Mono)
--- End quote ---
Well I just don't know what to tell ya, good buddy. I had this one right next to a Bally Williams WPC game that is well known for excellent audio (Whodunnit). I would switch off from one to the other. Pirates sound was definitely on-par with whodunnit.
Thanks for being generally rude and belligerent though. :notworthy:
Jeff AMN:
None of what Xiaou2 says is based in reality or fact for the most part. Just let him rant and randomly capitalize things and chalk it up to him being him.
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