Arcade Collecting > Pinball
Steve Ritchie Speaks (again)
Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---Xiaou2, I'd really like a pic of you playing a Stern game or two as evidence that you've actually touched one.
--- End quote ---
A few local collectors have them, so Ive played them. They disappoint on Free-Play,
and pale in comparison to just about every other pin in their collections... with
very few exceptions.
I actually put money into an Indy, because I love IJ movies, and wanted to see
how it compared to williams IJ. It was a train wreck. And given my experience
with playing half the stern collection, you wont find me putting money in them
again.
LLUncoolJ.. be careful man... people who troll here do not like people who actually
make logical sense! heh
--- Quote ---The fact is, however, is that licensed games sell much more than the generic themes do.
--- End quote ---
Nope. Thats called an OPINION. One that can easily be proven Wrong.
--- Quote ---1 - it gives people an idea of what to do (load the couch on simpsons, shoot the ring on LOTR)
--- End quote ---
LOL! Umm, sure, like nobody can figure out how to shoot the trunk on Theatre
of Magic?! :laugh2: Get real. That argument is pathetic, and only a mindless
zombie would eat that crap up. Its called "marketing excuse". Companies always
use idiot marketing BS to try to justify their poor decisions.
Stern could not make a non-licensed machine because they dont even have
an Artist! Their photoshop guy would not have any pictures to cut and paste!
:laugh2:
Stern does not believe in spend money to make money.
He follows the concept of: "Theres a Sucker born every minute".
--- Quote ---2 - it keeps the resale value of a pinball high - Simpsons & Harley Davidson will be popular the rest of our lives - so operators can resell them in a couple of years and make a good ROI
--- End quote ---
Right - and guess what, Haunted House will Always remain an alltime classic,
as will TOM, MM, and many more that will always be chosen over the Cheap
quality Sterns.
Plenty of people know WOF, but that does not mean they want a WOF pinball,
and WOF isnt Always going to be popular and well sold for the rest of someones
lifetime. More horsecrap on a stick.
Also, there has been a Simpsons done before, as well as other well known
themes, which do not do well, and are not highly desired at all.
I bet those Ops Loved the Burn they got from buying Riplys... thinking that if they
suck, they can resell them. Instead, they got a $4000 boat anchor.
--- Quote ---3 - it appeals to home buyers. it's not some dud movie that everyone will groan about someday
--- End quote ---
DM is a groaner movie IMOP. As is T3. WOF is a groan just thinking about it.
TMNT, a decent theme... a poor game. There are tons of examples that blow
right through these marking lies & excuses.
And what IS a home buyer? Some mindless dummy who has $3000 to drop?!
Get real. There are far more people out there that actually do some research
before they drop +$2000.
You know what appeals to me? Stuff that looks, plays, and sounds Good.
Guess what, Im a Home Buyer. Ive Bought 3 pins to date, one of which was $3000.
Im one of the idiots who drop boatloads of cash on machines... who could be
keeping pinball alive, buying newly used machines... and possibly brand new
machines.
There are a Ton of people out there, old and new generation, who are considering
Pinball as a new part of their entertainment. But you are not going to get them
to bite if the game is not a real amazing machine. You wont even get a person to
play the thing on location if it isnt interesting enough... AND, even IF they play Once,
if the game isnt good enough, it isnt going to get played again repeatedly... nor
are they going to be interested in future purchase of that machine.
For me, BK2K was the game that I dropped over $10 at a time in back in the
arcades... and became my first used pin purchase as an adult. Williams IJ however,
was a game I played at a laundromat in more recent years... and I fell in love with it.
$3000 was a very large sum of money to spend for me, but I simply could not
live without it... and out came the credit card.
--- Quote ---Anyway, I look at all that as pretty sound reasoning. Unfortunately, they've gotten unlucky with some themes that fit that model (NASCAR, Ripley's), and really unlucky on themes that didn't fit (WPT, CSI, 24).
--- End quote ---
Man, thats comedy gold. Unlucky?!?!?!!!!!! Its called Bad Decisions!!! That
Logic and Reasoning is pure and simple BS... and Stern proves it just about
every time. They just seem to be really good at getting sucker investors to keep
buying into it.
--- Quote ---Frankly, I think they're doomed. The 'electronic entertainment' market is huge but it's shifted entirely to consoles. I mean you're looking at several million to $10B there. Pinball's dropped from ~$150M to maybe $2-3M if you look at 1990 - 2005.
--- End quote ---
Pins are not selling? (no market) Wrong. Watch ebay seller "Fun". Fun sells Pins like they are cases of Cola.
They are doomed because of poor choices. Not because there isnt a market for
pinball. In fact, Id say that the market for pins is actually growing, not declining.
Population is increasing, awareness of Pinball is growing. Demand will continue to
grow... and pinball prices are going to skyrocket over the coming years.
A great example of this is MM. Went from like $2000 used... to $7000 in a few years
time. The difference is the technology. Today, anyone can see all the games made
from the 1900s to Present. They can hear, see, and read about these games on the
net. Watch videos. Even Play these games with emulation.
Want to play them for real? The internet will help you find where they are 'on location',
or will lead you to Pinball shows and events.
They even include a crappy Pinball game with Windows. And we all know that
almost everyone on the planet uses Windows, and has at very least Tried the pin game.
Pinball has been on various video formats and consoles from nes, turbogfx, and
various pcs... as well as most recently, on modern consoles. And while this is good
advertisement... everyone knows that video pinball just does not match the real
deal.
Poorly designed, generic, cheaply made (too many corners cut) product = Poor Sales.
Plain and simple Fact.
Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---he's been fired
--- End quote ---
Right. And Id been fired from Namco, because they thought that low sales were manager
faults. Guess what... the location closed about 2yrs after my replacement.
The new guy, would be the equivalent to working for Stern. You know the ship
is going down because of a mad captain... and yet, you want / need the money..
so you stick with it.
Getting fired from Stern means Squat. Getting fired from Williams? Most likely the
Same exact thing. Williams made too many mistakes, and were sinking rapidly.
Their idea to made pinball into a video game was a huge mistake, and it ruined
and real chance of survival / revival.
--- Quote --- I would totally believe 25-30% direct home sales. That's only like 1000-2000 pins per model! There are easily 1000 people in this country who buy a NIB pin each time a new one comes out.
--- End quote ---
These numbers dont speak much about anything. In fact, a lot of Ops are buying them,
and selling them off beat up in a year or two, to home buyers. This Does count as
home buyer numbers, because there is no way these Ops would be buying machines
like this, if they didnt think they could offload them in a short time. (short as in,
getting initial money from people who may try it once... but sold before there is no
longer any money coming from mere curiosity. IE: No repeat business = major losses
on a $4000 machine)
Jeff AMN:
Xiaou2 lives in his own crazy world with different rules that define logic.
And no, it's not OPINION that licensed titles sell well, it's FACT. Anybody can fact check, do some. Oh wait, you live in fantasy land where everything is different, let me get you some real world numbers.
Licensed Games
Sales over 20,000: The Addams Family
Sales over 15,000: Terminator 2, Twilight Zone
Sales over 10,000: Indiana Jones, Star Trek: NG, Star Wars
Sales over 5,000: Demolition Man, Bram Stoker's Dracula, World Cup Soccer '94, Creature From the Black Lagoon, Doctor Who, Corvette, Judge Dredd, Jurassic Park, Hook, Last Action Hero,
Pirates of the Caribbean, Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party.
Unlicensed Games
Sales over 20,000: None!
Sales over 15,000: None!
Sales over 10,000: Getaway, Fish Tales
Sales over 5,000: White Water, Road Show, Theatre of Magic
Yeah...sure looks like opinion to me! ::)
Also 99% of what Xiaou2 says is demonstrably wrong. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Xiaou2:
Let add Time to the equation fool. You are just as Dense as the marketers. Which
is exactly why entire industries have fallen to pieces.
Back then, Ops were in high competition with videos, as well as the shear fact that
Opps didnt get to play the games. They ordered what they Thought would do well.
And how did that work out "FOR THE OPS?"
Sometimes good, sometimes Not so good.
(Way better with Williams than Stern for sure)
Sterns uses all licensed machines, yet have the majority of the Worst machines
for the ops.
And now that Home buyers are the main drive for pinball, the entire game has
changed. Quality is expected and desired. Beauty is a factor. And gameplay is key.
People can see these machines on Youtube, and in a second, can make a pretty
good assessment on how good or bad it is. Not to mention, there is a lot of
chat and message posts to be read.
You cant just put out a turd with a big name, and expect it to sell well. Those
days are Long gone.
I can assure you that if you put TOM next to a BBH, the TOM will get all the money.
And, if you were to reproduce TOM and sell it along side of BBH, TOM will outsell it
1000 to 1, even if the TOM was priced higher.
A License makes it easier to make a game. But that does not mean the game will
be good... as Stern has shown us time and time again. The ops are going to get
tired of low repeat business, and low resale values to the home buyers.
Today, a non licensed game can do just as good if not way better than a licensed
machine. Especially such crappy licenses that Stern has given love to.
pinballwizard79:
:jerry :jerry :jerry
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