The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Arcade Collecting => Miscellaneous Arcade Talk => Topic started by: SirPeale on August 06, 2009, 06:36:01 am
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I started a thread @ KLOV Forums
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=98771
But would love input here too. The rivets that hold the logo plate have been impossible to find. Someone on KLOV forums has given some good ideas, but still looking for the size of the rivet, and what they were originally made of, and how they're affixed without special equipment.
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Links posted here for a member that has KLOV blocked from work:
http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=RVT
http://www.pbresource.com/tools.html
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Those rivets that are like a tube type are the same kind they use in leather work you use a button on the back and a punch on the top and a give a light tap with a nylon or leather mallet and they mate together.
You can get a tool for mass production but they sell a kit for doing them by hand.
Is that the rivet you have a question on? If so let me look up who I used to order from I think it was Zach white.
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I'm looking for the specific rivet used to hold the logo plate onto Midway coin doors. I'm not even sure of the exact size. The "snap" I found at a scrapbook store had the correct size head and shaft, but the shaft was too short. I'd take measurements if I had a caliper.
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I'm looking for the specific rivet used to hold the logo plate onto Midway coin doors. I'm not even sure of the exact size. The "snap" I found at a scrapbook store had the correct size head and shaft, but the shaft was too short. I'd take measurements if I had a caliper.
Check out these folks
http://www.eleatherworks.com/home.php?cat=419 (http://www.eleatherworks.com/home.php?cat=419)
They probably have them!
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Cut off the shaft and glue the heads on?
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I want replacements, not band-aids.
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Cut off the shaft and glue the heads on?
That's what I did. Works but indeed not as nice as the real thing.
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since we're on the subject of midway coin doors i'll piggy back on your thread if you dont mind.
i have one which i believe came off of a professor pacman..
anyway the coin door other then needing a lot of TLC and clean up works with a few parts missing.
1. coin entry bezel
2. coin ramp/slide
3. coin chute.
so is anyone making parts for these old doors?
the 1st slot is complete it's the 2nd that is missing parts.
i also have a old stern door which is prety rough but complete.. the coin chute is a perfect match.
P.S did midway actually make these doors? or was they out sourced? did they have a model number, or at they just known as "midway" doors?
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I'm looking for the specific rivet used to hold the logo plate onto Midway coin doors. I'm not even sure of the exact size. The "snap" I found at a scrapbook store had the correct size head and shaft, but the shaft was too short. I'd take measurements if I had a caliper.
With a tube rivet the one fits inside the other to give you more flexibility
(http://i29.tinypic.com/2me2wkh.jpg)
here is a cap type
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2r2olmt.jpg)
You can get mild steel rivets and take a set of bolt cutters and cut the jaws to make a rivet peener
Mild steel rivets
http://www.bigflatsrivet.com/steel_rivets.html
(http://www.bigflatsrivet.com/steel_rivets.html)
How to peen a rivet
http://www.forth-armoury.com/research/peen_rivets/how_to_peen_a_rivet.htm (http://www.forth-armoury.com/research/peen_rivets/how_to_peen_a_rivet.htm)
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Cap types might work. The ones that are on there now more resemble the cap part itself, and the shaft is rolled/compressed. Kind of like a scrapbooking eyelet.
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Cap types might work. The ones that are on there now more resemble the cap part itself, and the shaft is rolled/compressed. Kind of like a scrapbooking eyelet.
Kind of split and spread out in a star fashion?
Or solid like a eyelet if its solid then the cap type would be super close since it open on the one end if its the star shape then its a split rivet or a tube and I will have to look for those and the peening tool.
Here ya go! They have the roll crimp and the star crimp hand tool for tubular rivets
http://www.hansonrivet.com/w78.htm (http://www.hansonrivet.com/w78.htm)
(http://www.hansonrivet.com/w78/w78-RIVET-CLINCHERS-024.jpg)
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The tools are easy to find. Which rivet it is, isn't. So far.
I'm surprised no one has come up with the dimensions of them yet.
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I'll dig around and see if I have a Midway coin door.
Shouldn't be terribly hard to size one up for it. Several factors involved, but nothing overly complicated.
Material type.
Head style.
Diameter of hole.
Thickness of material going through.
Bucking style. (peen as it was referred to earlier)
I'm assuming these are "solid" rivets.
(but haven't looked at one yet)
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Not sure what you mean by solid, but the shaft appears to be hollow.
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Well, I hadn't actually looked at one until just now. (found a Midway coin door in my pile o crap)
They appear "hollow", but only on the very end where it flares out a bit when bucked.
Kinda like the ones found on an earlier link you posted:
http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=RVT
Only the end is hollow, the rest is solid, regardless of length.
A true solid is completely solid.
These look kinda like Flat Head Tinner rivets.
Hadn't tried to measure one up yet though, gonna be small for sure.
A tubular rivet is hollow all the way through. (aside from the head of course)
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Then these are tubular rivets, right?
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Hard to say right now..... they are so short it's hard to judge how much is hollow and how much is solid. A longer (thicker material it's going through) rivet would be easy to tell.
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The scrapbook snaps I have are the perfect size in every way except the length of the shaft. The shaft on them is hollow.
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The scrapbook snaps I have are the perfect size in every way except the length of the shaft. The shaft on them is hollow.
I might still have some rivets in my leather stuff if you want a couple to play around with them, just let me know.
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Check the KLOV thread - someone posted a size.
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The scrapbook snaps I have are the perfect size in every way except the length of the shaft. The shaft on them is hollow.
I might still have some rivets in my leather stuff if you want a couple to play around with them, just let me know.
Ok never mind I wont bother getting that stuff out.
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Check the KLOV thread - someone posted a size.
Head dia .190"
Head thickness .032"
Shaft diameter .085"
I get slight variations on the sizes. Haven't knocked one out yet to measure the shaft/hole dia.
Head dia .186-.189"
Head Thickness .015-.020"
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since we're on the subject of midway coin doors i'll piggy back on your thread if you dont mind.
i have one which i believe came off of a professor pacman..
anyway the coin door other then needing a lot of TLC and clean up works with a few parts missing.
1. coin entry bezel
2. coin ramp/slide
3. coin chute.
so is anyone making parts for these old doors?
the 1st slot is complete it's the 2nd that is missing parts.
i also have a old stern door which is prety rough but complete.. the coin chute is a perfect match.
P.S did midway actually make these doors? or was they out sourced? did they have a model number, or at they just known as "midway" doors?
The "Midway" door was originally designed and manufactured by Coin Mechanisms, Inc back in 1969 for Midway. The old Stern coin door was also designed and manufactured by Coin Mechanisms, Inc for Stern. That's why both of these doors originally shipped with Coin Mech brand coin acceptors installed. Happ Controls took over manufacturing and distributing the "Midway" (a.k.a. "Ms Pac" door) coin door in 1990 and the last catalog showing it was the Happ Controls 1994 catalog. I submitted a scan of the catalog pages showing the door and parts breakdown drawings to arcarc back in May and they still have not been posted there.
Here are Happ part numbers for what you have described:
1. # 42-0061-00 Coin Entry plate (old Midway # 0090-00117-03XF)
2. # 42-0025-00 Gray plastic slide
3. # 42-0069-00 Coin Guide Chute, new style (old Midway # 0090-00104-0000)
Happ may or may not still have the above parts.
Otherwise, The Great Amusement Emporium (in Colorado) had them listed under the old Midway part numbers. However, you must be a game operator to order from them.
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Check the KLOV thread - someone posted a size.
Head dia .190"
Head thickness .032"
Shaft diameter .085"
I get slight variations on the sizes. Haven't knocked one out yet to measure the shaft/hole dia.
Head dia .186-.189"
Head Thickness .015-.020"
These variations don't surprise me at that range. You're talking minute amounts there. The difference between .190" and .186" isn't much at all. Manufacturing differences, even wear can account for a lot of this.
I'll be contacting that company later to see what I can dig up.
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thanks ken, you're always so helpful on these coin door questions.
i checked happs website they still sell the coin chute but the bezel and slide are'nt online.
i'll send them a email maybe they got some old stock some where.
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The difference between .190" and .186" isn't much at all.
No, I wasn't too terribly concerned with that particular dimension. Minute variations are understood.
But the difference between .015 and .032 is HUGE when talking in the thousanths scale.
And these minute differences need noted when trying to look up a particular size to buy, that way you'll have a "range" to look at.
If you can't find a .190" dia head, well how about a .185" dia head sorta thing?
A .185" dia head may actually flatten out to about a .190" when bucked/squeezed at times.
No big deal, but finding a close enough rivet to start with is the key. Minute variations when assembled..... who cares, it'll be damn close either way.
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What a riveting thread this is.
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Who can quickly give me:
a) total thickness of the logo plate and the coin door
b) diameter of the hole the rivet goes in.
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I finally received the samples today! After waiting, and follow-up phone calls, and more waiting, and a request on the website, and more waiting, they showed up...
...and they're wrong. They won't go in the hole unless the hole is opened up a hair. Which means either the hole quoted to me is wrong, or they made a mistake when I was given the dimensions. :mad:
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What dimension were you given for the hole diameter ?
I'd be glad to knock out a rivet on my door and measure it and compare the two.
I'll measure material thickness as well while I'm at it.
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I finally received the samples today! After waiting, and follow-up phone calls, and more waiting, and a request on the website, and more waiting, they showed up...
...and they're wrong. They won't go in the hole unless the hole is opened up a hair. Which means either the hole quoted to me is wrong, or they made a mistake when I was given the dimensions. :mad:
When you finally do figure out the correct sized rivets to use, is there any chance that you might start selling them on your website?
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I finally received the samples today! After waiting, and follow-up phone calls, and more waiting, and a request on the website, and more waiting, they showed up...
...and they're wrong. They won't go in the hole unless the hole is opened up a hair. Which means either the hole quoted to me is wrong, or they made a mistake when I was given the dimensions. :mad:
When you finally do figure out the correct sized rivets to use, is there any chance that you might start selling them on your website?
That's the idea, yep!
What dimension were you given for the hole diameter ?
I'd be glad to knock out a rivet on my door and measure it and compare the two.
I'll measure material thickness as well while I'm at it.
These are the dimensions I was given:
Logo plate .020"/.52mm
Coin door .061"/1.42mm
Total thickness .081"/1.94mm
Hole diameter 1/8"(.1250"/3.18mm)
I'm pretty sure the thicknesses are okay, but the hole is smaller than an eighth of an inch.
Either that or different doors have different hole sizes.
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I'll pull that old door I have back out and check it...... but I can tell ya already the hole diameter is definitely smaller than 1/8". (.125")
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Just about have some dimensions together... gotta finish some averaging and there is still a wee bit of guess work since I knocked the buck mostly off removing the rivets.
But the diameter is definitely smaller than .125", more like .088".
And these are definitely a ferrous material. (steel)
Some food for thought...
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Those are the rivets I've got - just not the right size. :)
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I finally received the samples today! After waiting, and follow-up phone calls, and more waiting, and a request on the website, and more waiting, they showed up...
...and they're wrong. They won't go in the hole unless the hole is opened up a hair. Which means either the hole quoted to me is wrong, or they made a mistake when I was given the dimensions. :mad:
When you finally do figure out the correct sized rivets to use, is there any chance that you might start selling them on your website?
That's the idea, yep!
Cool, cool! 8)
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Got kinda tied up with a few things, but here's what I have so far.
Door Hole - .088"
Door Thickness - .070"
Plate Hole - two holes are @.090" the other four outer holes are .115"
Plate Thickness - .021"
Rivet :
Diameter - .088"
Head Diameter - .187"
Head Thickness - .022"
Length - @.155"
The two middle holes in the plate were probably made closer to the actual rivet size and used as the first rivets installed for alignment purposes, the other four holes had some leeway.
I'd be looking at Semi-Tubular Pan Head Rivets of a ferrous (steel) nature.
Like a DIN 6791 in steel.
Of course the critical dimensions would be like the rivet diameter (.088"), the head diameter (.187"), material thickness (.091") and head thickness (.022").
The depth of the "tubular" section needs to be no deeper than than material thickness so as to have enough "solid" rivet matching material thickness (.091"). What tubular portion that protrudes from there needs to be just enough to roll over and cinch the rivet in place.
Since that portion gets knocked of mostly when removing a rivet I kinda guesstimated about a .030" rollover, double that if straightened out, so about .060", plus the roll bend itself, give or take about .004-.005".... hence a total length of ABOUT .155"
Still all gonna depend on finding a close enough match with going "special order" so there may be some give and take here and there while keeping the criticals in mind.
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You guys are awesome. I was just working on my Midway coin door today thinking, "how the heck am I going to replace the rivets on this thing?", and low and behold, you guys are working on it!
I just wanted to say how grateful I am that there are hardcore guys like you! (and get my auto-mail replies on this topic, I need me some of those!)
:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
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Any luck on this yet? I have 2 midway coin doors I'm about to start restoring... And have been curious about this as well...
PS - Thanks for all the work so far... :cheers:
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Any updates????
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Funny you say that...I've been tons busy with other things that I hadn't given this any thought until yesterday when I ran across the bag with the "wrong" rivets". I'll call them again soon. I've got to - I've got several doors that need it!
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Dont know if these match, i dont have a Midway coin door to look at.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#96082a100/=4zonrr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#96082a100/=4zonrr)
I know they are too long (wrong panel thickness) but they could probably be shortened easily.
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I've got to - I've got several doors that need it!
So do I ;D