The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Lightguns => Topic started by: AndyWarne on January 19, 2009, 04:38:47 am
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Hi,
I would like to know the following, from users of light guns or potential users:
What distance from the screen would you normally want to use a gun?
If you were forced to use a longer distance, how far would you consider is "too far" from the screen to be comfortable with?
Thanks for any help.
Andy
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Personally 3foot back from machine, so possibly 3.5/4feet from screen
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Again, approx 2.5-3 foot away from the screen.
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I think it would be best if the gun works as BT mouse. In that case the gun is usefull for MAME and for consoles/pc's (broader range of customers), which brings me back to the answer of the question:
For cab use, 1 meter will be maximum (your bwittish right? no feet there I thought), but for console use 2-3 meters will be common.
But the corner-2-corner angle of two lines from the gun to the corners of the screen will be always similar I guess.
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Between 2 - 4 ft
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2-3ft
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Thanks for your replies. This is close. The proximity to the screen is a real challenge for light-gun design.
Andy
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Just the fact that you're asking has me excited. I can't wait to see what you're up to :)
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Ohhhhhhhh snap..
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Bet it's not cheap....
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Probably depends on whether it's 1 player or 2. 1 player, probably about 2 feet. 2 players, probably closer to 3.
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2 - 4 feet.
As long as its not as bad as the TopGun...
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I think it would be best if the gun works as BT mouse. In that case the gun is usefull for MAME and for consoles/pc's (broader range of customers), which brings me back to the answer of the question:
For cab use, 1 meter will be maximum (your bwittish right? no feet there I thought), but for console use 2-3 meters will be common.
But the corner-2-corner angle of two lines from the gun to the corners of the screen will be always similar I guess.
Co-signed.
Definitely interested in this.
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I would think the distance would be proportional to the screen size. 19" you have to be close, 26" not so close, 50" not close at all.
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I would think the distance would be proportional to the screen size. 19" you have to be close, 26" not so close, 50" not close at all.
Yeah, that's why I said 2 - 4 feet....I only have a 19" monitor.
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OK just to follow-up.
A more direct question: would the following minimum distances be considered acceptable?:
28 inch monitor: 3 feet
19 inch monitor: 2 feet.
Thanks
Andy
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Sounds good to me.
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yup thats perfect
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2-4 feet would work for me with a 29" screen.
Are you taking into consideration a smoked plexi or glass over the CRT?
I had pretty much given up the thought of guns on my cab.
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A more direct question: would the following minimum distances be considered acceptable?:
28 inch monitor: 3 feet
19 inch monitor: 2 feet.
Sounds like it'd work on my set-up!
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19" monitor for me, but have lightly-smoked glass in front.
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This is exciting! I have been sitting on the sidelines waiting for a better light gun technology to appear. Hopefully this is an improvement over the existing tech (hopefully the guns look cool too!). :cheers:
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Is it too early to ask what advantages (or disadvantages) this potential light gun would have over that sonic gun (which so far is vaporware). I've been holding off on buying a light gun product in anticipation of that sonic gun, but it would be nice to have another solid option to consider. ;D
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I think it would depend on the screen. I use a 19" screen for my light guns so 1 meter (3 feet) is roughly at what I play with. I had a roommate once upon a time with a 36" CRT, we did 2 meters (6 feet) then.
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2-4 feet, similiar to most "real" arcade machine layouts.
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If it's of consistent quality and stability at the distance, that sounds great...
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Bet it's not cheap....
How often have you seen cheap in this hobby?
I don't care what the exact product is, I wanna be able to use guns with my cab.
To me value is much more important.... and Andy hasn't disappointed me yet.
Personally I use a 36in TV, 5 feet seems comfortable. My rig is hell to get guns to work on though (guncon even hates my CRT, rolling x, I believe to my TVs auto upscaling))
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Personally I use a 36in TV, 5 feet seems comfortable. My rig is hell to get guns to work on though (guncon even hates my CRT, rolling x, I believe to my TVs auto upscaling))
This is why when I build a cab it's going to JUST have a PS2 inside of it, controllers wired up to the panel but wire PlayStation game ports to the front area where a coin mech would normally be where you can simply plug in DualShocks, Guncons, or any other specialty PS2 controller. (USB ports and composite video jacks for guncons as well on the front.
Just trying to figure out if you can 'seperate' the optical drive from the system and relocate itso as to have a drive tray on the front too.
Bam. Connect gun. Insert disk. Save Astigos Island from Zagoria. No fuss, no muss.
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Personally I use a 36in TV, 5 feet seems comfortable. My rig is hell to get guns to work on though (guncon even hates my CRT, rolling x, I believe to my TVs auto upscaling))
This is why when I build a cab it's going to JUST have a PS2 inside of it, controllers wired up to the panel but wire PlayStation game ports to the front area where a coin mech would normally be where you can simply plug in DualShocks, Guncons, or any other specialty PS2 controller. (USB ports and composite video jacks for guncons as well on the front.
Just trying to figure out if you can 'seperate' the optical drive from the system and relocate itso as to have a drive tray on the front too.
Bam. Connect gun. Insert disk. Save Astigos Island from Zagoria. No fuss, no muss.
You have other options available to you on the PS2 rather then relocating the DVD drive. Mainly based on the HDDLoader systems. Just do some research, you can get your PS2 rigged up for pretty much free.
Its based on running off a hard drive rather then a optical drive.
Since it doesn't apply to this site too much I'd rather avoid talking about it on here but send me a PM if you are intrested and I'll give you my email address, and at least point you in the right direction
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i had a 26" tv with a playstation 2 gun cabinet setup a while back and i stood about 3 to 4 feet back. my current cabinet has a 19" LCD monitor, so no light guns for me.
i am contemplating trying to set up a ps2 gun cabinet again though... although if there was a good gun option for cabinets with LCD monitors, i wouldn't have to do that
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You have other options available to you on the PS2 rather then relocating the DVD drive. Mainly based on the HDDLoader systems. Just do some research, you can get your PS2 rigged up for pretty much free.
Its based on running off a hard drive rather then a optical drive.
Since it doesn't apply to this site too much I'd rather avoid talking about it on here but send me a PM if you are intrested and I'll give you my email address, and at least point you in the right direction
Problem is, HDDLoader ONLY supports PS2 games (The PS1 CPU is used as the HDD controller in PS2 mode, so it can't be a PS1 CPU -and- a PS2 I/O controller at the same time). Since there are great PS1 light gun games including Point Blank, which I've made the effort to buy the ligit copies of their game disks, I'd prefer to stick with having the ability to play optical disks.
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Ooooooohhhhh...Andy's doing market research on a light gun! I sure hope this means he's going to release one to the MAME community! Hopefully it works with an LCD monitor (fingers crossed). :cheers:
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the range Andy suggests is spot on. I'm in
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In case Andy is still looking for opinions...
For games like Police Trainer and Area 51, I stand as far back as the gun cord will let me and I would still like to be further back. I like the challenge.
If a gun is going to use a quality cable (with strain relief) instead of a simple USB cable, then longer is better since there is no way to extend the cord. Also, gun cabinets tend to have mount the cables where most people put their keyboard drawer. MAME cabinets will probably have to mount the guns off to the side out of the way so an extra foot of cable might be necessary.
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Standard USB cables arn't necessarily a bad way to go either. They're certianly good and universal and it's easy to find replacement plugs or extention cables. I think 'Ease Of Maintance' is something to considder. I think in a home arcade, the risk of the cable getting damaged isn't signifigant.
Having a gun survive falling onto the floor when it slips out of the hands of an excited and frantic player would be a more pressing issue I think. I'm still fearing a crack in one of my guncon shells one of these days. :/
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Oh and don't make it cost too much please
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Well, since it looks like we could be waiting forever for the Sonic Gun System at this point, I'm glad to see Andy take charge with this one. Andy's/Ultimarc's products (and service) have never disappointed, and he actually produces more product than he hypes. I for one am very happy and excited to see what this turns out to be, and I'm sure to be among the first to buy when it's released.
My biggest wish is for the guns to be arcade quality (unlike the cheap crap HKEMS stuff), and to feature real recoil. Now THAT would be great.
Shoegazer
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After researching this to the N'th degree, I'm prepared to pay whatever it takes to get ahold of whatever Andy's working on. Undoubtedly whatever the final product is will underpromise and overdeliver.
Those measurements are perfect for me, BTW.
I too had written off any real possibilities for light gun use. Can't wait to see what's cooking here!
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I am in! I amso excited that this is even being discussed. I had some topguns. Pain in the butt to get to work and then when they do the distance is a turn off. Act labs are to high. I dont know if anybody has asked but are you gonna make these lcd compatable or just crt compatable? I would be happy as a hippo with crt as long as they are user friendly, durable, and the distance you talked about sounds excellent. If you can do this and keep the price reasonable this is a very smart move on your part because this is what a lot of people around here have been waiting on for a long time. Very exciting. :applaud:
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I think a gun with LCD support would be the better way to go. Assuming you can make a system where using IR LED markers WORKS like the Guncon 3 for PS3, it would work on both CRT or LCD. Though maybe he could just have two models available. I hate to say it, as I like my cathode ray timing guns, CRTs are going to get progressively less common so futureproofing would be an asset. This technology is now in the main stream in the arcades so I doubt it would be difficult to impliment it in this hobby field.
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yeah...Andy, i dont know exactly what you have planned...but a good LCD light gun solution would be in great demand.
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Oh and don't make it cost too much please
Better good than cheap ;D
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yeah...Andy, i dont know exactly what you have planned...but a good LCD light gun solution would be in great demand.
Most definitely.
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OK just to follow-up.
A more direct question: would the following minimum distances be considered acceptable?:
28 inch monitor: 3 feet
19 inch monitor: 2 feet.
Thanks
Andy
perfect, when will you start to sell them?
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even better inexpensive and good
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It's already easy enough to get cheap third party guncons. The issue is getting light gun models that will survive usage, especially if you don't let your machines collect dust and encourage people to actually play with them. With my light gun collection I take the PS1 and PS2 guns and games out to anime and gaming events I help run so people can enjoy some Point Blank or Time Crisis. The events might only run 7hrs but some of those kids are playing the HELL out of the guns, frantically and insanely going at the triggers. I'd say construction quality would be a major issue.
I set up some cheap HAIS CRT based multisystem lightguns (Which seem to be physically identical to the LCD TopGun almost) and they were DESTROYED in 3hrs of House Of The Dead 3 on Xbox. Literally the triggers didn't even go 'click' anymore and one gun couldn't even be detected by the Xbox anymore. Third parties vary in quality. I've had decent results with Namco's own Guncon 1's but now one has an iffy trigger and another needs it's video passthough repaired. The only guns I've had that have operated flawless were the offical Guncon 2's for PS2 that Namco made, but that could just be dumb luck.
So if someone were making a hobbiest light gun for MAME and such I think one of the key goals should be to have it survive 'arcade level usage'.
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I don't think Andy would make it if he couldn't make a high quality, durable product. But I think some people here are getting ahead of themselves. I don't think Andy has said he is going to release a light gun product. The title of the thread says "market research", so it sounds like he's only in the exploratory phase. That said, I'm hopeful!
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yeah, it sounds like it could be a while..but it is promising news. Ultimarc makes great products...i couldn't be happier with my u360s and utrak. I'm really hoping that something good comes from this. I'd love to have an arcade quality gun for my cabinet that works with mame. i'd even be happy with something on the same level as the guncon 2.
so, Andy..if you are reading this...whatever it is you are working on...please make it compatible with LCD monitors. the caibinet i have just doesnt have the depth require for a CRT. and even though i've been pushing and pushing..my wife is just not on board with me getting another cabinet set up for Playstation 2 light gun games. i'd love to tell her that there is an awesome light gun product that will work with my existing LCD cabinet.
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LCD, CRT, TV I do not care ... I can use any of the listed.
3 to 4 feet is fine.
getting the darn thing to work and simple to set up is key to me.
TV size I would be using
svid... 20 inch and 32 inch
Plain old TV 52 or 56 inch. I do not remember size right off the top of my head.
LCD 19 inch
CRT 19 inch
You make it... I will buy one.
a yoke would be nice next.
HINT . Hint
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Another advantage to an LED marker based gun is you don't need to adapt it to support the video signal type you're using. Such as if you're connecting using RGsB or RGBHV or S-Video or DVI or anything else, an LED market type gun wouldn't care so long as the markers were positioned right and the gun was correctly calibrated. It'd eliminate a lot of potential headache that you'd see in trying to get the sync signal into a cathode ray timing gun. (Oh how cool it'd be to play Point Blank on a data projector. XD )
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I would have to agree.
seems better on manufacturing issue to go LCD
LCD prices are reasonable now.
a 19" DELL LCD is about $200.00
most of us have many old style CRT monitors laying around.
but for a new type gun that works well...
I would buy the LCD needed for a good gun system
This is not a cheep Hobie especially for a special system
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a 19" DELL LCD is about $200.00
Dell monitors are a lot cheaper than that. 22" widescreen is only $170 onsale.
You can sometimes find a whole system w/ a LCD monitor for under $400.
Be sure to look at the small business prices when going to Dell's web site.
The business prices tend to focus on price instead of throwing in extra crap that you don't want.
Plus you tend to get better support.
I read in another thread (can't find it now) that people were looking for small secondary monitors to show control layouts. Dell is currently selling a 16" widescreen LCD (1366 x 768) for $71. Requires coupon.
Here is the link for some dell Deals, including the 16" LCD deal
http://www.dealcatcher.com/dell-sb-coupons
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just waitin on my test model for review andy :applaud:
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Hopefully you'll be allowed to tell us about it soon after!
:cheers:
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OK just to follow-up.
A more direct question: would the following minimum distances be considered acceptable?:
28 inch monitor: 3 feet
19 inch monitor: 2 feet.
Thanks
Andy
Sounds great.
Also 2 player at the same time would be fabulous. :)
USB connection?
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preferrably in black or black/chrome as a glock/45/Desert Eagle. Please no lime green or oinge :w00t
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There is always spray paint:-)
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No one is sticking up for CRT's so I will ;)
Of course if a gun could work with all screens that is great, but I would rather have one for a CRT (specifically a low res one driven by AVGA).
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I agree I have a avga and a low res crt and would love a light gun.
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yes the range is good but it would have to work with LCD moniters as well. thats the biggest problem. i own 4 lcd light guns 2 x ver 1 and 2 x version two and there pap ...
p.s love the idear of the new U-Hid shame there isnt a version with just the 3-axis accelerometer on-board and nothing else to cut costs ...
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CRT would be great, but if you have to chose only CRT or LCD then I suspect LCD based guns would have a longer market viability.
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i woulda certainly pay the premium personally if it were both crt and lcd combined into one gun, switchable via a small switch located at base of gun where the cord exits the stock. But again, if this isnt feasible then nevermind. What would something like this be worth to me? Id easily have no problem with the $59.95-$79.95 range if it could handle both.
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I would gladly pay $100/ gun if its accurate and reliable.
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you make a good gun.
$100 to $200 range
I mean a DARN good gun.
I will build my cab to your specs.
yep I want a good gun cab that bad.
just like I want a good starwars/spyhunter cab
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I just thought of it.
It might be under LCD? I am not sure.
My sister and also my younger brother both have new flat panel TVs
$1,000 + type TVs
these have a PC connection on them (VGA)
LARGE TVs (HD)
so vertical and horizontal games would be fine on same TVs
They won't let me hook up a PC to check them out :dunno
That's what I would like.
all my Mame gun games.
all my console EMU gun games.
SNAP :o
I said I would never spend that kind of $$$$ on any stupid TV.
This could change my mind
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I guess I am in the minority here. 3-4 feet minimum from a 27" screen is too much IMO. Isn't that what those cheap LCD Topguns require? Back when I had the ActLabs light guns, I'd say people would generally hold the gun between 1-2 feet from the screen. I just 'tried' it with a measuring tape and at 3-4 feet back you have to actually walk forward to press the start button to continue the game and then walk back again. Remember, your extended arm is around an additional 2 feet, so you have to add that to the minimum gun distance. So at 3-4 feet you have to stand 5-6 feet away from the cabinet!
I could see it working for a showcase style cabinet, but not for a standup. Just my 2 cents.
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A lot of arcade gun cabs however force you to be farther from the screen.
DX Time Crisis cabs for example use a podium:
http://www.paulsarcade.com/images/Time3.jpg
Others in uprights use a mirror inside the cab with the tube on it's back pointing 'up' and the mirror reflecting the image, resulting in the image appearing to be on the 'back' of the cabinate wall.
http://www.ihsjapanese.net/tc3.jpg
This is a different style of TC3 cab but I've seen the mirrors used on Point Blank, A51Site4 and othercabs. So you can't actually get the gun within 2 feet of the screen if you tried basicly.
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Exactly my point. Neither of the two example cabinets you listed are typical of the home arcade cabinet consumer that Andy is presumably targeting for this product. I already mentioned the distance would be fine for a showcase style cabinet (your first example). How many BYOAC people put mirrors in their cabinet display design to allow a greater lightgun distance? Also look how close that guy's gun is to the screen in the 2nd pic (probably 1-2 feet at the most).
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Also look how close that guy's gun is to the screen in the 2nd pic (probably 1-2 feet at the most).
My point was that, from a strickly DIFFICULTY point of view, 3feet or so at the least seem to be the standard. Even with him 2 feet from the plexi of that cab, the total distance he is from the CRT tube is at least three feet. So he's still playing with 'Three feet of difficulty'.
As you only complained about the start button being reached, I'm just saying there are ways around that. Of course, including, adding a start button to the gun. :D
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the shift function from the ipac with a small d-pad located on the gun could handle many options :cheers:
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As you only complained about the start button being reached, I'm just saying there are ways around that. Of course, including, adding a start button to the gun. :D
It was really just to illustrate how far back 3-4 feet really is. I tried it and it doesn't feel natural at all with an upright cab. Then you also have to tell all your guests to stand 6 feet away from the cabinet at all times. Or tape some 'stand here' lines on the floor 6 feet from the cabinet hehe.
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i dont know how long the cords are on a guncon 2, but i know when i had my playstation 2 mounted in a cabinet with a 26" TV...it felt most natural to me to stand back as far as the cords would reach. 3 or 4 feet isnt that far.
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Is there anyway to get that orange shotgun from that deer hunter arcade game to work on a MAME cab, I believe the game was made by sega
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Andy, you better not be tuggin our nuts with this crazy Light Gun teaser!
To answer your initial question:
Preferred Distance: 2-3ft. w/ 20in. monitor
Max Distance: 5ft. w/ 20 in.monitor
So basically anywhere in the range of 2-5ft.
I know you made no mention of an LCD Light Gun, but it would be heavily recommended. Especially if you can work out the kinks and get 64-bit drivers for it. I believe most people on this forum would be happy to pay $100-$200 for it.
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I believe most people on this forum would be happy to pay $100-$200 for it.
Speak for yourself. I want a lightgun, but not for $200. Lightgun isn't THAT important.
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I believe most people on this forum would be happy to pay $100-$200 for it.
Speak for yourself. I want a lightgun, but not for $200. Lightgun isn't THAT important.
Yeah I would have to agree... that's a bit much..
Maybe the WHOLE setup for 200...MAYBE, but it would have to be a 100% efficient setup with some sort of a warranty if things suddenly go bad.
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I think the use of the term 'LCD Light Gun' is a misnomer, it sorta suggests that there are guns for CRTs and guns for LCD screens when a gun made for LCD screens that uses IR markers for tracking of course works on CRT screens as well. Or data projectors or a wall with cartoon figures drawn in crayons on it. Seems to me that the name 'LCD Gun' could potentially confuse some people who don't understand how the light guns actually work.
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I believe most people on this forum would be happy to pay $100-$200 for it.
Speak for yourself. I want a lightgun, but not for $200. Lightgun isn't THAT important.
how much do you think the first act lab guns were?
then after there was a supplyer issue they went for up to $500.00 on eBay
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I paid $39.99 each for my Act Labs guns. This was before they raised the price for some bizarre reason.
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I just thought of it.
It might be under LCD? I am not sure.
My sister and also my younger brother both have new flat panel TVs
$1,000 + type TVs
these have a PC connection on them (VGA)
LARGE TVs (HD)
so vertical and horizontal games would be fine on same TVs
They won't let me hook up a PC to check them out :dunno
That's what I would like.
all my Mame gun games.
all my console EMU gun games.
SNAP :o
I said I would never spend that kind of $$$$ on any stupid TV.
This could change my mind
That's what I do, and both vertical and horizontal look fine to me. Just be aware that these sets don't support all the resolutions that a PC monitor does. Also they seem to vary from set to set (I have three and they are all different) http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/02/08/how-to-connect-your-pc-to-your-hdtv/ So if you are looking at a particular model I would recommend downloading the manual for it as that's about the only way you can tell what resolutions they can handle before you buy them. I haven't tried the LCD topgun because from what I understand I would have to stand like 20 ft away to use it on a 52 inch. It would be cool if there was a gun that you could use a little closer up with on these larger monitors.
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preferrably in black or black/chrome as a glock/45/Desert Eagle. Please no lime green or oinge :w00t
Thats another issue. I think in most jurisdictions the gun would need to be a "non-gun" color otherwise it would be illegal to sell it as it would be a replica gun. Thats why the gaming guns are these colors.
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red and blue
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preferrably in black or black/chrome as a glock/45/Desert Eagle. Please no lime green or oinge :w00t
Thats another issue. I think in most jurisdictions the gun would need to be a "non-gun" color otherwise it would be illegal to sell it as it would be a replica gun. Thats why the gaming guns are these colors.
make the sights like a neon green or orange. It will qualify in this respect. In most toy stores at present the guns themselves are simply tipped in orange or green, which if done right would add some style to it imho. Or simply make a snap on cap and hand grip sides in your choice of colors or decals. Green/Orange/Red/Blue
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make the sights like a neon green or orange. It will qualify in this respect. In most toy stores at present the guns themselves are simply tipped in orange or green, which if done right would add some style to it imho. Or simply make a snap on cap and hand grip sides in your choice of colors or decals. Green/Orange/Red/Blue
Where do you live? In NYC you would be HARD PRESSED to browse a toy store and find a gun in black at all (except if you went to a cheapo imports store, possibly)... most guns are very bright colors and have outlandish shapes. The newest Nerf series (N-Strike) I'd say is probably the closest you'll come to looking almost like a real gun, currently (and that is a huge stretch)...
Personally, I figure having the guns go for the "Arcade" look is what we would be going for, not the "Real" look.... My vote is for red and blue.
As far as shape, I liked the crazy namco or sega shapes myself ( but I would be totally cool with a standard arcade gun housing or other style of standard gun)... I figure shape will end up being a huge discussion if it comes to it. I don't know what copyrights are held by whom as far as that's concerned... if we had to go with a totally new arcade design, I wouldn't mind taking some influence from nerf guns... (N-Strike Wii Gun (http://www.hasbro.com/nerf/n-strike/shop/details.cfm?guid=9432D189-6D40-1014-8BF0-9EFBF894F9D4&product_id=23008&src=endeca))
(http://www.hasbro.com/common/images/products/6675535a5222_Main400.jpg)
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this is what im getting at, forgive my crude ms paint drawing, its simply meant to show what im talking about. Done in grey to give you contrast of features
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Maybe something like the Sega Saturn Stunner Gun:
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I think that light guns should look nither exactly like a real gun nor like a crazy alien blaster. Sega and Namco's designs are probably the best for both home and arcade, with me personally feeling that Namco's guns were of a better look. I think a 'gunish but not specficily any gun' look is more authenticly 'arcade' then a Desert Eagle or something that looks like a Super Soaker.
And of course, everyone knows that light guns come in red or blue. :)
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Yup. I vote for "arcade authentic", and that includes both color and cables (some here prefer the idea of wireless guns - not me).
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I think that light guns should look nither exactly like a real gun nor like a crazy alien blaster. Sega and Namco's designs are probably the best for both home and arcade, with me personally feeling that Namco's guns were of a better look. I think a 'gunish but not specficily any gun' look is more authenticly 'arcade' then a Desert Eagle or something that looks like a Super Soaker.
And of course, everyone knows that light guns come in red or blue. :)
I would agree, and thats kind of why I like the newer nerf guns such as the one above, as opposed to the last few gen's. Forget the color scheme, because its red/Blue, but if you look at the Sega gun and the Nerf wii gun specifically for JUST SHAPE, they aren't really that different except for the fact that the nerf mold is more detailed.
And again, thats only if we *couldn't* just replicate the other mold... I don't know what copyright situations are with these molds. I'm just saying if we had to actually work with a brand new mold design.
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And again, thats only if we *couldn't* just replicate the other mold... I don't know what copyright situations are with these molds. I'm just saying if we had to actually work with a brand new mold design.
I don't think it'd be difficult for any graphic designer to come up with a design that 'fits' the arcade theme of looking like a gun but not specificly being any gun. Most arcade guns I can think of arn't super rich in physical details but are more generic.
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Andy's/Ultimarc's products (and service) have never failed to disappoint,
:laugh2: That's not very nice!
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Well since my LCD light guns have never seemed to work properly i went and bought a Wii controller and light bar and extras my god it cost a small fortune and to my disbelief the Blue tooth stacks crash out on windows xp 64 all the time ......
But under windows XP seem oky accept my blue tooth dongle is pants and losses connection all the time.
So was thinking along the lines of the LCD light gun but with better guns / single light bar or LEDS and Much better tracking drivers and all so throw in you sensors for movement and you would have the best ever light gun full stop .... ;) .......
Sort of a cross between WII / LCD Light guns and namco body ... oh and none of that crappy kick back effect from LCD light gun it sucks ...
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Well since my LCD light guns have never seemed to work properly i went and bought a Wii controller and light bar and extras my god it cost a small fortune and to my disbelief the Blue tooth stacks crash out on windows xp 64 all the time ......
But under windows XP seem oky accept my blue tooth dongle is pants and losses connection all the time.
So was thinking along the lines of the LCD light gun but with better guns / single light bar or LEDS and Much better tracking drivers and all so throw in you sensors for movement and you would have the best ever light gun full stop .... ;) .......
Sort of a cross between WII / LCD Light guns and namco body ... oh and none of that crappy kick back effect from LCD light gun it sucks ...
Well, a WiiMote IS an LCD Light Gun, just in a funny shape. But both are using the same core technology of tracking two points of IR light and doing the math to use them as a basis for understanding what it's pointing at. But this technology of course has issues. Firstly, the gun can't see the the markers from certian angles or distances. From too far away the IR signal meshes in with other sources in the room, too close and the angle between the gun and the market might be too sharp for it to sense. An IR marker design won't let you put the barrel right up to the screen and have it detect where you're pointing at for example.
This is the issue, the technology behind a cathode ray timing gun is simple and highly effective but CRT displays are growing more and more obsolete. Using IR or some other marker technology is simply necessary, dispite some of the issues.
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i'd be very happy if the wiimote would pair up automatically and work as a mame lightgun, but that just doesnt seem to work too well. the problem with the wii's approach to the IR tracking, is that it is not remotely accurate on a big screen. if you are on a small screen, it isnt that noticeable..but when i am playing games on my 102" projection screen...i am not pointing the wiimote anywhere near where the crosshair shows up. my wii sensor bar sits below my screen...when i aim at stuff near the bottom of the screen, it is pretty good...but for stuff at teh top of the screen, i have to aim somewhere slightly below center.
having two led bars like the topgun should solve those kinds of problems, however according to teh EMS tech support, their guns wont work on a screen that big, unless you mount the bars in the middle of the screen...which is just unacceptable. i'm sure i'm in the minority in wanting good lightguns that would work on a screen that large, but it would be nice.
but projection screens aside, i really hope that whatever Andy is workign on, he makes it compatible with LCD monitors. CRTs are becoming increasingly difficult to come by. also, the local pizza place got some new arcade games in the other day, one of which is a time crisis 2 unit...the pedal was almost broken, but still functional. It was alot of fun playing with a real arcade gun....and i have to say those namco guns are really slick looking. it made me go home and hook up my ps2 to the 26" tv and play some time crisis 3...now i'm really wanting a gun cabinet again.
i know it is just "market research" at this point, but here is what i am hoping for:
1. LCD monitor support
2. guns that are either comparable to or better than the guncon 2 controllers..preferably in blue...and yellow :)
3. flexible mounting options for IR Led bars or whetever it is they will use.
4. not to cost an arm and a leg.
i know ultimarc makes great products, and i am willing to pay for great products...as long as they are within reason.
i think i speak for alot of us when i say "we're counting on you Andy"
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I personally love the Namco and Sega guns as they had a bit of weight to them and looked really cool.
I also loved the recoil feature, the gun just felt, well like a gun really but at the same time you knew it was an arcade gun!
The key, I believe, would be in the colour options available. I personally like red but it would be cool to have other colours. Therefore, would it be so impossible to make the casing changeable? Or at least have a black base and make other parts changeable like NIVO suggested? I would love to have the option to customise those parts to my cab.
- Obviously LCD support would be a must nowadays.
- In terms of design I would definitely like a Namco/Sega shape.
- either black, colour coded or metal tubing for the wire
- usb support
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i voted for the following:
interchangeable shells with a place to add weights (just like the gaming mice)
for example, if the wife and mom are playing, i can lighten up the guns, if some guys are over drinking some beers, toss in the weight to add to the "bad@ss" feeling
but honestly, if it works and costs less than 300 bucks for a nice 2 gun setup, i'm there
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I may as well throw my 2¢
Dual infrared LED tracking style operation for universal monitor support. (include cardboard template for spacing of LEDs on common monitor sizes .)
Direct copy of original PS1 Guncon gun styling. (including front function buttons)
Standard pushbutton Mircoswitch for trigger for easy servicing.
Red, Blue, Yellow full body colour options (should match happ pushbuttons of those colours if possible).
64bit Vista/Windows 7 driver support.
3 meter USB cable with a xbox style breakway 1 meter from gun (or Bluetooth wireless).
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn111/taz-nz/2547219246_f7d86d5f56.jpg)(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn111/taz-nz/2546396937_3907d9e0f6.jpg)
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Direct copy of original PS1 Guncon gun styling. (including front function buttons)
Uhh... See on the side of the Guncon? Where it says '© 1996 NAMCO LTD.'? That means copying the Guncon's mold would be, ya know, 'a bad thing' without permission from Bandai Namco.
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Just thought I'd chirp in here that if you can create a high quality *DURABLE* light gun that easily works with LCD monitors I would definitely buy one. I think most of us would be more than willing to pay a little extra for something that can take some serious abuse.
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Andy's/Ultimarc's products (and service) have never failed to disappoint,
:laugh2: That's not very nice!
Oops! Just realized that.. hah thanks for the catch. Modified. ;)
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No one is sticking up for CRT's so I will ;)
Of course if a gun could work with all screens that is great, but I would rather have one for a CRT (specifically a low res one driven by AVGA).
I have some CRT love! I am using a betson imperial 27" arcade monitor/crt. It should work well with something like this. :cheers:
As far as cost. Easily would pay $50 for something of decent quality. I may consider more, but it would have to be real nice and work out of the box.
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I'm in if this is for real. I'd personally prefer a controller board that's compatible with Happ guns since I already have two that have never been used, but as long as it works seamlessly with Mame, is 2 player capable, doesn't require me to stand in another zip code, and is available sometime in the near future, I'd be up for any solution.
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I'd prefer CRT support for my arcade resolution d9500s. I'm not sure about the distance since I haven't played a lightgun game in a long time.
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What is most important to me is that is JUST WORKS... simplicity is key... I so want to pick up a couple of guns for my cab, but it's seems to be way too much trouble to get either of the current options available to work right....
SIMPLICITY is key...then price...
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I agree. No pairing on startup. Manual calibration should be as infrequent as possible.
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Count me in. I would turn my Leathal Enforcers 2 into a mame gun cab.
Maybe just make a board that can except Happ red and blue guns.
Then we won't have to worry about if the parts aren't always available.
just my two cents.
If that doesn't work for compatability issues I would even go for a gun with sensor bars we can attach to the side of the screen or something.
everyone that comes over to my game room to play loves to play my leathal enforcers 2 game over any other game I have. The feeling of shooting something is a great feeling (i guess for them)
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I would like arcade length from the screen, what every is the normal length. I would also like something that works through tinted glass.
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Hell at this moment I would buy anything that works *accurately* and has that arcade *reliability* Whatever is being considered, I would like it to defiantly work with a CRT.
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Hell at this moment I would buy anything that works *accurately* and has that arcade *reliability* Whatever is being considered, I would like it to defiantly work with a CRT.
Ditto
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I would be in on anything that is accurate, works with CRTs (WG 9200 + AVGA) and supports arcade guns such as Namco/Happ/Sega.
Give all the time and money I've spent on other solutions (LED lightguns, Act Labs) that I was not happy with, I'd be willing to pay for an authentic experience...
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well im JUST starting on my first mame project.. and have no intent on putting any guns no it because of it's style 45degree slanted monitor.
with that said i DO very much want to also do a gun cabinet, like t2 with the positional guns, those could be used for any gun game, but it would'nt be authentic on light gun games, so i'd probably make a mostly blank CP for light guns on that type of cabinet.
with that in mind i'd say 2 feet would be cutting it close.. i'd say 1 foot or 1//2 foot on a 19inch.. 2 feet should be ok for a 25inch.
max range you'ed probably use them would be say 5-6 feet.
i know a lot of people are going for LCD but if it worked with crt and lcd i think that would be great.
as others said the namco and sega guns are both nice designs.. i know recoil really is a nice touch mabe 2 version one with and without recoil.. and i also agree build qualty should be high, thick plastic is a must.
a 100 bucks for a high quality gun with recoil i think would be a great deal
preferrably in black or black/chrome as a glock/45/Desert Eagle. Please no lime green or oinge :w00t
Thats another issue. I think in most jurisdictions the gun would need to be a "non-gun" color otherwise it would be illegal to sell it as it would be a replica gun. Thats why the gaming guns are these colors.
in the states toy guns have to have a bright orange tip.. the gun it self can look as real as you want it to be (check out air soft guns), but it has to have a orange tip.. alternatively you can make the whole gun bright red or orange or yellow or what ever if you wanted.
it's also illegal to remove the orange tip.
now.. with that said im not sure if that would apply to arcade guns with a cord attached.
in any event you could make the tip snap on.. rather then glued on.. and any one who removes it can do so without destorying the gun but also takes the reasponsability of it.
after all you complied within the law.
or probably an easier was to get around it would be to make the gun gun clear, or white plastic.. or at least offer it in these one of these 2 choices.
you can die plastic easily enough, as long as it's a lighter color then what you're making it.
IE: you can't die black something else.. but white can turn into anything.
and dying plastic is a lot better result then spray painting it.
now as far as gun styles my votes for a beretta 92, which i consider one of the sexiest guns of all time.
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Just to chime in again, would like to see LCD support. Found a real cheap 37" LCD that I am now using for the system.
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Andy's/Ultimarc's products (and service) have never failed to disappoint,
:laugh2: That's not very nice!
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mJ4lc_Q9Q6k/ReZCSiV173I/AAAAAAAACDE/nx2i1cI2pus/s400/RR_brassbottom2.png)
"Roger, you always cease to amaze me..."
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Now?
How about now?
Anything news yet?
The suspense is killing me. I have a Leathal Enforcers 2 waiting to be converted.
please! I am waiting and in Hope of a gun solution that works. :applaud: :cheers: :applaud:
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hey, yanno, some people are very particular, Andy. me, ive been satisfied with every product ive ever bought from ultimarc. in fact, for keyboard encoders anyways, i feel that the author of project arcade added too many extra pages to his book by reccomending anything besides the Ipac2, Ipac4, Or Jpac.
and its funny too because i did own the xarcade build your own kit at one point.
The main problem with his kit was this. all the paper tags fell off of his wire spider and after 3 years of using it on a 2 player pc Cp panel box I decided to yank the xarcade out of my testbed and finally build a full cabinet.
when i went to wire the new custom cp, i found that all the tags were gone, and that was indeed my first purchase from ultimarc.
needless to say everything about the ipac 2 and 4 and also the jpac are clearly labeled on the pcb and if you ever decide to reuse it its still as simple as 123.
the other bad thing about the other guys, is that a lot of them dont have direct inputs, or software programmability.
anyways, bottom line is that im not picky at all about distance as long as its close to what a stand up deer hunter or something similar would be. also, i would like to see a real arcade gun as long as someone comes out with something besides Act Labs dumb looking gun.
actually, andy, if you could just come up with a pcb that will interface a happ arcade replacement gun to USB or another port, that would be awesome.
id buy at least 2 right off the bat and also refer anybody who asks like i do with the Ipac/jpac.
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Everyday i go to http://www.ultimarc.com/controls.html hoping to see a gun control or any sort of news.
Can anyone tell i am impatience?
:cheers:
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I vote for low res crt powered by AVGA! Glad to see that your interested in researching Light Guns! I would be willing to spend some $ on the real deal. I've been sitting on the fence for years waiting for an authentic arcade light gun.
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I'd also put in an order :)
I think versatility is key. Wireless isn't necessary. I'd say connections so that you can either use old school Lethal Enforcers guns, or "hotwire" your own electronics to your favourite nerf gun ;)
Just as an aside, this new Namco gun (http://www.siliconera.com/2009/04/24/is-this-namco-bandais-new-guncon/) looks pretty sweet :)
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i think a good thing would be if an interface came out where you could hook up almost any light gun to it. id guess it would be the actual interface, and then adapter modules for each different gun.
this would make retrofitting old jamma cabinets a sinch.
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Has anybody made a lightgun that puts the sensor at the screen? It seems like you could make a gun that was simply a low-power infra-red laser and then put in infra-red sensors al the plane of the screen to get x/y coordinates. You could get as close to the screen as you wanted and mulitple guns would be cheeper.
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Does this mean I can expect a light gun soon?
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Now playing: Venetian Snares - Kakarookee Hates Me (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/venetian+snares/track/kakarookee+hates+me)
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Does this mean I can expect a light gun soon?
This thread was started in January, and Andy hasn't posted once since that first post. I'm losing hope.
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Does this mean I can expect a light gun soon?
This thread was started in January, and Andy hasn't posted once since that first post. I'm losing hope.
Me to but I have faith but no patiences hahahahha :cheers:
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It takes months to design and launch a new product. Andy's is a great but small business and he has limited time. Be patient- all his products are worth the wait
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It was a market research post, not a product announcement post. While it would be great to see him post that he's following through on it, he probably won't say anything until a product release is imminent (assuming he even decides to follow through). And like swamprat just said, complex products take a long time to go from concept to product availability.
I think it's safe to say that MANY of us would be all over a well done light gun solution for MAME, but expressing disappointment isn't going to get us such a product any sooner.
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You know what'd be cool? A seperate set of 'light gun guts' and 'shells'. That way you could buy the internals and hten install them into the shell you desire. Pistol, shot gun or assault rifle. As there are some games that don't use a pistol gun. HOTD3, HOTD4, and Ghost Squad come to mind off hand.
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You know what'd be cool? A seperate set of 'light gun guts' and 'shells'. That way you could buy the internals and hten install them into the shell you desire. Pistol, shot gun or assault rifle. As there are some games that don't use a pistol gun. HOTD3, HOTD4, and Ghost Squad come to mind off hand.
I agree! In fact I was thinking the same thing when people were debating the the colors etc.
Have standard guts but then interchangeable gun models. Id like an Uzi more than a pistol myself. But having the option of having another gun model or making my own tickles my fancy.
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I agree! In fact I was thinking the same thing when people were debating the the colors etc.
Have standard guts but then interchangeable gun models. Id like an Uzi more than a pistol myself. But having the option of having another gun model or making my own tickles my fancy.
The guts of a light gun are pretty simple anyway. I imagine every shell would come with a preinstalled trigger and microswitch, then you just install the board and the optical sensor, wire them and voila. The shells could be preformed to have easy mountings for all the parts, so only the length of wire between the mountings would vary.
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Alright folks, the wait is over!
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=96369.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=96369.0)
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We already knew that.
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Yeah, that was a tad bit redundant.
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Perhaps he was just pointing it out for people that haven't been back in a while but have this thread watched? :dunno
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Perhaps he was just pointing it out for people that haven't been back in a while but have this thread watched? :dunno
Thanks, that's exactly what I was thinking. I actually posted b/c I was going back through some of my old posts (to find something I was looking for) and I ran across the thread and thought to myself, "what if someone out there was actively reading about this 6 months ago, but stopped checking in and missed the new thread?"
I just figured I'd tie off this loose end and leave a signpost for folks to follow. :blah:
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Yeah, ok. From that way of looking at it, I get it.
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OK just to follow-up.
A more direct question: would the following minimum distances be considered acceptable?:
28 inch monitor: 3 feet
19 inch monitor: 2 feet.
Thanks
Andy
Count me in for this one. :applaud:
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Yeah, ok. From that way of looking at it, I get it.
Funny, or I guess, not funny. I didn't see the problem with linking that thread to this one, so I thought GV felt the same but was making light of TheShanMan's remark.
TheShanMan: We already knew that.
Ginsu Victim: Yeah, that was a tad bit redundant.
I was ready to reply something like: We got it already.
...but I didn't want to highjack this thread into a "one up" gag.
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I would think the distance would be proportional to the screen size. 19" you have to be close, 26" not so close, 50" not close at all.
Yeah, that's why I said 2 - 4 feet....I only have a 19" monitor.
Ditto