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Arcade Collecting => Miscellaneous Arcade Talk => Topic started by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 09:01:49 am

Title: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 09:01:49 am
I've always wanted a pin... a local guy who's shipping out to Iraq is selling two vids and two pins for $350 each obo.  The blurry pic is a Fan-Tas-Tic which looks like a fun game but with the pic being blurry I don't know its condition.  I'm thinking of offering $300 for it and passing on the others. Any opinions?
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: ChadTower on September 25, 2007, 09:09:01 am

You left out most of the important information.

Do they work?
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 09:40:08 am
The seller left out that important information too.  Obviously the first question I'll ask when I call.  I wish there was a better pic of the Fan-Tas-Tic... I could barely identify the machine, let alone see the condition of the playfield or backglass.

I saw a post that had the Mr. Pinball value of the Triple Action at $375, and the most recent eBay sale of a non-working Fan-Tas-Tic was about $275.
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: ChadTower on September 25, 2007, 09:45:24 am

That sounds about right.  They're both really slow players.
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 09:51:59 am
Have you played Fan-Tas-Tic?  I've never heard of it before today... I haven't decided if that pop bumper between the flippers is really cool or really annoying.
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: ChadTower on September 25, 2007, 09:53:28 am

I haven't played it.  If you can get the price to something you think is worth finding out, and if the game works, I'd say snag it and play it until you're tired of it.  Then sell it for the same price.
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 10:00:40 am

I haven't played it.  If you can get the price to something you think is worth finding out, and if the game works, I'd say snag it and play it until you're tired of it.  Then sell it for the same price.
Y'know, that's really good advice.  *smacks self on head*  Thanks, Chad!

The guy's about to go to Iraq to get shot at; I don't think I'm going to haggle with him too much on the price.
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: ChadTower on September 25, 2007, 10:03:32 am
The guy's about to go to Iraq to get shot at; I don't think I'm going to haggle with him too much on the price.

That's my thought too.  I've had a couple friends ship out, though, and sell off a lot of their stuff.  I was shocked at how people would lowball the piss out of them with the "well, you're not going to use it and you need cash" rationale... one woman actually said "what do you care, you may not even come back".   :dizzy:
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 10:15:11 am
one woman actually said "what do you care, you may not even come back".   :dizzy:
OK, I can't even reply to that without crashing the board's autocensor.   :soapbox:
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: ChadTower on September 25, 2007, 10:37:14 am

Yeah, she wasn't there long before he tossed her out.  She decided, for some reason, to vent her antiBush sentiment on a soldier about to be deployed.

What a dumbass.
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 11:13:31 am
Well I pulled the trigger on it.  The guy says everything works perfectly except the player 2 score reel sometimes sticks at 8000 points.  My solution to that is to make sure I'm always player 1 in a two player game.   >:D

Picking it up at 7, so hopefully I'll have pics up tonight.

Thanks again, Chad!

Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: ChadTower on September 25, 2007, 11:14:27 am

Nice!  Just that one pin? 

EMs are very very heavy.  Keep that in mind when you plan moving it.
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 11:32:33 am
Yeah, I just took the one.  I was looking at the driving game, but from the KLOV pics it just doesn't look that fun.  But it did make me realize that the solution to a lot of my CP issues is to build another MAME cab just for driving games.  I have two Pole Position 360o wheels and a Pole Position shifter, plus two Happ-style add-on pedals (microswitch, not pots, sadly... but maybe I can hack pots onto them).  I've got extra computer parts and even an extra 19" open frame monitor lying around, so it's really just a matter of building the box.  It'll be a good spring project.
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: ChadTower on September 25, 2007, 11:35:49 am

I'm stoked to see some good pics of what shape this thing is in.  You'll definitely want to do at least a basic shop job on it (flipper rebuilds, new rubbers, waxed playfield).
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 11:37:28 am
Yeah, I figure I'll be on the Marco Spec site tonight.  Wonder if I can get Novus in town so I can start cleaning it at least....
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: ChadTower on September 25, 2007, 11:39:02 am

I've seen it at some hardware stores and at antique stores.  A couple calls might turn some up.
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 11:41:15 am

I've seen it at some hardware stores and at antique stores.  A couple calls might turn some up.
Hmm... good idea.

Y'know, I think I'm looking forward to doing the shop job more than actually playing it! 
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 05:24:35 pm
Looking for info on the game, I found the profile of the person who owns it on VAPS (http://www.vaps.org/members/member_detail.php?member_id=378352)... so I'm guessing it's pretty well taken care of.
Title: Re: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?
Post by: WareWolF on September 25, 2007, 09:40:40 pm
http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=fan+tas+tic&searchtype=quick#820
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 25, 2007, 10:13:26 pm
OK, it's home now... that sucker is HEAVY!

Mechanically, it seems to be in great condition. Structurally and cosmetically it needs a lot of restoration work.  Which is fine; I'd have a lot more trouble fixing the mechanics of a pristine cabinet.

I'm about to go down now and take a thousand pictures.  The plywood is delaminating in places, the back of the cabinet looks like it's gotten wet at some point, backglass is flaking, two legs are black and two are silver, and the whole thing is desperately in need of cleaning.  But overall I'm happy with it.  A nice starter project pin.

Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 26, 2007, 01:39:12 am
OK, pictures are being uploaded to my Flickr account; they can be seen at my Flickr account (http://www.flickr.com/photos/celamantia/sets/72157602156258082).  They're being uploaded at their full 7 megapixel size so it'll take some time for them to all arrive.  Here are some highlights:

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1375/1440540461_7bf6e259b2.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/celamantia/1440540461/)(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/1440577145_77d0d49675.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/celamantia/1440577145/)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1371/1441457720_a343088ddb.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/celamantia/1441457720/)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1325/1441425070_34000c3576.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/celamantia/1441425070/)


Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 26, 2007, 07:49:55 am

Those pics are pretty average, if not better than average, for a pin of that age.  Nice one.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 26, 2007, 12:33:18 pm
I'm going with "better than average" based on the state of the mechanics and the playfield.  I think that playfield had to have been replaced at least once in its history.

So I have a bunch of supplies headed to me from Marco Specialties... wow they ship fast!  I placed the order at 3AM and got the shipping notification before noon.

Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 26, 2007, 11:34:26 pm
Argh... I started to take apart things and documented them, and Windows' Camera Wizard ate the pics!

Anway, so I have supplies coming from Marco Specialties tomorrow so I can start really cleaning.  Unfortunately, today I realized the plumb bob is missing from the tilt mechanism!  I hate it when that happens.  If I order it now it's another $9 shipping charge.  Well, Ill just start adding non-critical parts to a list and I'll buy them when the list stops growing.

I noticed part of the cabinet has an apparent factory finish on it, a very light coating of some sort that the rest of the cabinet doesn't have.  Should I be trying to re-coat the rest of the cabinet with a protective coat to protect it, or will that just wreck it?

I was scrubbing at dots all over the head when I realized it wasn't dirt or water spots, it was silver splatter paint.  Oops.  I looked at some pics on the Net and sure enough it's supposed to be there.

Anyone know what to do about the chrome?  I have several parts that really need re-chroming but it seems to be expensive.  Is there a spray-on alternative that won't look awful or wear off easily?

Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: shardian on September 27, 2007, 12:41:20 am
Required reading for you:
http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/

I have a color laser printer copy sitting in my bathroom. ;)
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 27, 2007, 12:44:46 am
Yes, I saw that... wondering if I'll get walnut shell media just by grinding up my own walnut shells...
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: shardian on September 27, 2007, 07:21:29 am
Yes, I saw that... wondering if I'll get walnut shell media just by grinding up my own walnut shells...


Don't waste your money on a tumbler unless you plan on redoing ALOT of pinballs. Your dremel and a polishing kit will suffice for one good shape pinball.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 27, 2007, 10:16:24 am
Yes, I saw that... wondering if I'll get walnut shell media just by grinding up my own walnut shells...


Don't waste your money on a tumbler unless you plan on redoing ALOT of pinballs. Your dremel and a polishing kit will suffice for one good shape pinball.
I have a hobby store tumbler that I've actually never used.  I got it for my daughter years ago but she lost interest the moment she realized it took weeks to get polished rocks out of it.

Maybe I will just do the Dremel though.  I was talking to my wife yesterday and she really wasn't pleased with the idea of another project where a machine was taken apart for two months as I took my meticulous time, so I probably won't be removing all of the components, just doing whatever I can do by the end of this weekend.

Right now I'm trying to think of what to do about the cabinet.  The left side is far worse than the right, but fortunately that side will be facing the wall.  I still want to protect it though.  My initial thought was to protect all the stencil work and just repaint the off-white, but then I'll have to redo the silver splatter as well.  Hmm.

I also am not sure what to do about the back panel.  At a minimum it needs to be repainted, but I'm wondering if I should replace the water-damaged panel with plywood or maybe just attach luan to it to re-face it before repainting it.

When I get home tonight I'm going to triple-thivk the backglass.  There's only one part of the lass I think I should attempt to restore; if I tinker with anything else I'm liable to just screw it up.

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1128/1441572224_0bf25bac80.jpg)

This guy's collar is almost completely gone, so I don't have to worry as much about color matching.  This is the worst of the backglass flaking.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 27, 2007, 10:31:00 am

Seal the glass, shop the game, and leave the rest alone.  Restore things after you've had it 6 months and are sure it's a keeper.  You could easily end up not wanting it anymore after 3 months and then you'll have done a lot of work that won't necessarily be returned in sale price.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: shardian on September 27, 2007, 10:45:37 am
You can touch up after sealing the glass - it is actually recommended.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 27, 2007, 10:54:14 am

Seal the glass, shop the game, and leave the rest alone.  Restore things after you've had it 6 months and are sure it's a keeper.  You could easily end up not wanting it anymore after 3 months and then you'll have done a lot of work that won't necessarily be returned in sale price.
Yeah, but my plan is to work my way up to better pins (I can only fit one at a time), so I'm thinking of this sort of as a "practice" pin as far as doing work on it.  But I am trying to avoid sinking a lot of money into chrome plating and such just for that reason.

The pin won't be a final "keeper" until it's a Funhouse, Twilight Zone, or Road Show.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 27, 2007, 10:57:44 am

Had a really nice TZ... sold it fast, didn't like it much.

The practice concept is a decent one, I guess, but for the most part there isn't going to be tons of difference in results between the first time you do something and the fifth.  The fifth time will just be a whole lot faster.

Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: shardian on September 27, 2007, 10:58:51 am
Yeah, but my plan is to work my way up to better pins (I can only fit one at a time), so I'm thinking of this sort of as a "practice" pin as far as doing work on it.  But I am trying to avoid sinking a lot of money into chrome plating and such just for that reason.

The pin won't be a final "keeper" until it's a Funhouse, Twilight Zone, or Road Show.

I'm in the same boat here. If the cabinet frame is in bad condition, you really don't need to be worrying about polishing metal. If the game works, fix the little issues, clean the EM contacts and make sure all of the score reels are working, replace dead lights, and clean up the playfield. That is really all you should do unless you plan on going whole hog on the machine. As long as it works 100% and won't fall apart by moving it, you are good.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 27, 2007, 11:02:00 am
I haven't gone whole hog yet... I will on my Black Knight when the repro playfields come out.  That sucker is going top to bottom restoration.  New clearcoated playfield, new plastics, repro backglass, repainted cabinet, full shop, replaced connectors and headers, cap kits, etc.


EDIT:  Hey... check out this guy's vids.  Pin shop process on youtube. (http://www.youtube.com/user/psychospence)  The amount of pinball stuff on youtube is awesome.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: shardian on September 27, 2007, 11:09:08 am

Had a really nice TZ... sold it fast, didn't like it much.

I don't like it or Addams Family.
To tell the truth, I don't think I really like any Pat Lawlor DMD pin. They are good don't get me wrong, they just are too busy I suppose.
NASCAR bores the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of me.
Ripley's I never knew whether the ball was coming or going due to the ridiculous under playfield shuffling.
Rollercoaster is okay, but to be fair I haven't played on a 100% working table (Which I am sure most people have never played on a 100% working Lawlor DMD pin ;))
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 27, 2007, 11:14:33 am

When you go to a certain amount of parties at houses with high end collections you get to have a good perspective on quality of design vs how much of the game is actually working.  It really helps in that regard.

I do love Funhouse.  I will end up with one sooner or later, probably start hunting one down once my gameroom is up and running.  When it comes to DMD games I prefer the ones that don't incorporate the display for minigames and such... if I want to play a monotone LCD game I have an old Gameboy for that, not a $2000 pinball machine.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: shardian on September 27, 2007, 11:27:44 am

When you go to a certain amount of parties at houses with high end collections you get to have a good perspective on quality of design vs how much of the game is actually working.  It really helps in that regard.

I do love Funhouse.  I will end up with one sooner or later, probably start hunting one down once my gameroom is up and running.  When it comes to DMD games I prefer the ones that don't incorporate the display for minigames and such... if I want to play a monotone LCD game I have an old Gameboy for that, not a $2000 pinball machine.

There is a big time collector here in town, and I've been to his house once. He had an Elvis in brand spanking new condition. The thing about blinded me it was so damn shiny. ;D
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 27, 2007, 11:33:04 am

Had a really nice TZ... sold it fast, didn't like it much.

I don't like it or Addams Family.
To be honest, TZ isn't really all that fun to me either, but the table itself, especially the backglass, is a work of art!  In fact, if I got my hands on one I'd probably take the whole room to a Twilight Zone theme; I think "Twilight Zone" makes an excellent game room name!  Not the right reason to own a pin, I know... Funhouse is probably the one I enjoy playing the most.  I've never played a real RoadShow but I'm really fond of the Visual Pinball version.  I could probably be happy with an Indiana Jones, Star Wars or Star Trek pin, again more on theme than play value.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 27, 2007, 11:38:18 am
As far as playfield restoration, there's only one spot of really serious wear, and that's around the lower jet bumper. I'll probably try to touch this area up, probably with enamels instead of acrylics to try to resist the wear better.  I don't really want to mylar it; on this playfield mylar is probably irreversable.

There's a little wear around the bonus inserts that's probably an easy touch-up.

And that is probably all I'll mess with on the playfield other than cleaning and waxing it.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 27, 2007, 02:06:48 pm
Here is the worst part of the cabinet wood-wise... the corner of the backbox delaminating with chunks of the top layer of plywood missing.  This has an appointment with some wood glue and clamps tonight.

High resolution version at Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/celamantia/1441457720/)
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 27, 2007, 02:10:32 pm

Stupid websense is blocking flickr.com apparently.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 27, 2007, 02:50:12 pm
Oops.  I redid the last two posts as attachments rather than Flickr links.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 27, 2007, 02:54:18 pm

I'd live with the cabinet problem unless the game is a keeper.

I suggest looking up "ball swirl" and how to deal with that before you consider touching up the playfield.  The paint will be weird and hard to match with all that dirt next to it (dirt a standard cleaning won't get out).

IIRC the consensus method is a Magic Eraser.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 27, 2007, 03:06:21 pm

I'd live with the cabinet problem unless the game is a keeper.

I suggest looking up "ball swirl" and how to deal with that before you consider touching up the playfield.  The paint will be weird and hard to match with all that dirt next to it (dirt a standard cleaning won't get out).

IIRC the consensus method is a Magic Eraser.
Already read it and already have the Magic Eraser.  :D

You don't think I should glue and clamp the plywood where it's coming apart, or that I shouldn't worry about the cosmetics of it?
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Kaytrim on September 27, 2007, 03:15:14 pm
Went through your flickr set.  Nice job in documentation.  Keep it up as you progress through.  As long as your cat allows. :laugh2:

TTFN
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 27, 2007, 03:26:27 pm
Already read it and already have the Magic Eraser.  :D

You don't think I should glue and clamp the plywood where it's coming apart, or that I shouldn't worry about the cosmetics of it?

Well, obviously I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't do, I can only tell you what I would do.  If the problem is structural, by all means fix it now.  If it's not... get it working and play it a while before doing other stuff.  It's not like that damage will be worse in a month than it is now.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 27, 2007, 03:44:41 pm
Well, obviously I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't do, I can only tell you what I would do. [/quote]
Well yeah, but I value your opinion. Owning a pin has been a lifelong dream for me, and right now emotionally I'm an 8 year old kid with a Dremel, so it's good for me to listen to someone with a clearer head.  Doesn't mean I'm going to take all the advice, of course, but I value it.  :)

Quote
If the problem is structural, by all means fix it now.  If it's not... get it working and play it a while before doing other stuff.  It's not like that damage will be worse in a month than it is now.
I think I've been consciously restraining myself from playing with it because I know once I do I'm never gonna get any work done on it.  :D  The same thing happened to me on my MAME cab... hooking up the CP set my project back by two months.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 27, 2007, 03:51:19 pm
I think I've been consciously restraining myself from playing with it because I know once I do I'm never gonna get any work done on it. 

That may not be true... pins aren't like MAME cabs.  Once you start playing them you see every moving part for its exact working condition and it isn't long before you're ripping off the glass after every third game to tweak a switch or rebuild a target bank.  MAME cabs, once wired up, work the same "half done" as they do completed, once you get to the finishing stages of construction.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 27, 2007, 04:07:05 pm
That may not be true... pins aren't like MAME cabs.  Once you start playing them you see every moving part for its exact working condition and it isn't long before you're ripping off the glass after every third game to tweak a switch or rebuild a target bank.
Wow, I never thought of that.  Excellent point.

Speaking of switches, even the coin switches on this thing are leafs!  I've never dealt with anything other than microswitches before... unfortunately, it looks like to put this machine into "free play" mode some previous owner mangled the leafs and actuators on the coin switches.  I'm trying to get them back together, but I'm not sure I understand them.  The dime side has two leaves but the quarter side has three.  The mechs look like standard mechs, so I may replace the quarter side mech with a token mech to use my BYOAC tokens, but I'd have to widen the coin entry slot slightly to accept them..
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 27, 2007, 04:18:07 pm

Even recent pins still use almost all leafs.  Can't say I can remember ever seeing a microswitch under the playfield of a pin.  Can't say for sure no one has ever used them but I don't remember ever seeing it.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: WareWolF on September 27, 2007, 08:31:31 pm
Some tips on adjusting leaf switches here...

http://www.flippers.be/basics/101-switch_adjustment.html

Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 28, 2007, 03:15:49 pm
I pulled the glass off today and started to go over the payfield... it really is in very good shape.  The surface is nice and even, no real ball dings from airballs, very little wear. I did use the Magic Eraser which helped brighten the yellow areas and cleaned up some touch-ups that were applied imperfectly in the past.  I'm leaning right now toward not attempting to touch up anything on the playfield except maybe using a Sharpie to clean up the lines around the triangular inserts.  I'm still worried about the serious bare wood around the bottom pop bumper, though.  But I think I'm going to skip the Novus 2 step and just give it a once-over with Novus1 and a hard wax, change out the playfield bulbs, and clean the plastics. The rubbers are all relatively new so it was probably shopped fairly recently.

The backglass taught me a bit of a lesson.  I powered up the machine and there are huge ugly shadows behind the backglass where someone attempted repairs before with paints that were too opaque (see attached pics), a lesson that amateur restoration work is more likely to do harm than good.  This lesson was reinforced when I tried to clean the plastic pricing plates and accidentally removed part of the opaque coating, ruining one of them.  So I'm just going to finish gently cleaning and button it back up.

The power cord on this looks like a lamp cord; it seems woefully insufficient to drive the table safely.  I don't think it's original to the machine.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 28, 2007, 03:18:43 pm
I did at least get good results gluing and clamping the delaminated plywood; after letting it set overnight the layers are staying together nicely.  I clamped a 2x4 along the length of the repair to keep the pressure even.

Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 28, 2007, 03:23:39 pm

The cat approves.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 29, 2007, 01:34:09 am
Today I took a crack at the playfield. I touched up the black outlines on the triangular inserts and the big roulette wheel, went over the whole thing with a microfiber cloth, then some Novus #2 and Novus #1.  I thought the playfield looked pretty good so I was going to skip Novus 2, but after Novus 1 alone I wasn't happy.  So I did the Novus 2... meh.  Went back over with Novuus 1 again and suddenly there was that new playfield shine!

I started to replace the bulbs with #47's until I realized that there was only one 44 left on the playfield, under the apron for the start light where the previous owner missed it.  The rest are 47's already.  I do have one socket out, gonna have to look into that.

Next I need to start playtesting and adjusting, but lo and behold I've lost the pinball!   :o  I have a set of 5 mirror-finish balls on the way, so I'm gonna have to wait a few more days to start playtesting it.

Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 30, 2007, 01:37:55 am
I finally pulled down the backglass to take a look.  No point in Triple Thicking it... a previous owner spraypainted the back to seal it.  Oh the humanity.

I think it's beyond help.. I can't imagine any way to remove the paint without destroying the art.

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1085/1461821906_cc530d29a8.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/celamantia/1461821906/)
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 30, 2007, 05:39:53 pm
OK, I took a break from the mechanical problems to take a crack at the one big playfield touch-up I want to do.

The lower pop bumper has a circle worn down to the wood around it:

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1356/1441519094_6e2599d21e.jpg)
I debated long and hard whether to try to repair this, but I forged ahad.  First I painted in the wood with white enamel to give it a good protective base, sanded that down, then started trying to match the pink.  My first attempt was too dark:

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1251/1464274657_a17e202d3d.jpg)

I wiped that off and tried again:

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1261/1465136108_7bfe42fa15_b.jpg)

This was looking better so I filled it in:

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1195/1465147918_dbc6026353.jpg)

I'm going to let this dry and sand down to playfield level and see how it looks.  It's acrylic so I should be able to take it up easily, although the enamel white will still be there.  If I like it, I'll put a little satin varnish over it and sand and Novus it and hopefully it won't be too bad.  Certainly better than bare wood.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on September 30, 2007, 09:20:54 pm

Nicely done.  I need to get some skill with paint, I think.  Too much fantastic repair work going on to keep me thinking I'm not capable if I figure the materials out.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 30, 2007, 09:25:20 pm

Nicely done.  I need to get some skill with paint, I think.  Too much fantastic repair work going on to keep me thinking I'm not capable if I figure the materials out.
Not as nicely done... after I took the pic, it darkened much more after it finished drying to I took it off and started over.  What I have on there looks way too light now, so hopefully it'll darken just right.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on September 30, 2007, 10:39:13 pm
Well, the second time the color match was perfect.  Sanded it down with 300, then 600, then Novus 2.. looked great but dull.  Finally the Novus 1... which took the acrylic right back off.   :badmood:  :hissy:  :'(

I'm just going to have to go back and do it with enamel.  The board can't take much more sanding... I'm starting to lose the yellow and lettering above the bumper now.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on October 01, 2007, 10:13:24 am
Well after doing some more research I've decided that I was just too quick on the draw with the Novus.  "Dry paint" does not equal "cured paint"!  So I'll give the acrylics one last shot and give it a day to cure rather than trying to sand and finish after drying it with a hair dryer.

Yes, I'm an amateur, but hopefully I learn from my mistakes.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on October 01, 2007, 10:16:39 am

I didn't know you could safely remove the acrylic without damaging the paint underneath...?  How does that work?  I don't know a ton about art paints.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on October 01, 2007, 11:54:40 am

I didn't know you could safely remove the acrylic without damaging the paint underneath...?  How does that work?  I don't know a ton about art paints.
Apparently you can as long as the paint's not fully cured.  Novus 1 took it right off.  Water or alcohol will do it while the paint is still wet.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on October 01, 2007, 01:03:52 pm

Ah... and it doesn't take up half the stuff underneath it?  That explains how a lot of guys experiment with color so heavily.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on October 01, 2007, 03:39:58 pm

Ah... and it doesn't take up half the stuff underneath it?  That explains how a lot of guys experiment with color so heavily.
Not so far.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on October 08, 2007, 02:30:06 am
I've repainted the wear ring around the bottom bumper again; I'll get pics after it dries in the morning.  I've been paying more attention to the mechanical restoration (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71844.0) lately.

I think this is the last touchup I'm going to do on the playfield.  Sometimes the touchup work looks worse than the wear.

I did paint over the front portion of the backbox; this is the portion with no art or splatter paint.  The paint is a little lighter than it should be, but I think it works okay because it's on a separate section.  I tried some touchups on the side of the machine closest to the wall, but even when the color match is good the finish match is not, and at anything other than head on the touchups stand out like a sore thumb. So I think I'm going to stop touching up the sides.  I am considering painting the front, but if I do I'll have to redo the whole thing.  It's pretty worn and the previous touchups (with marker) look awful.
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/1440577145_77d0d49675.jpg)
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on October 10, 2007, 01:13:12 am
I finished repainting, varnishing and sanding the wear around the bottom bumper.  I don't have a pic yet; the results are okay, but if I could go back I think I would have left it alone.  I oversanded in a couple of places trying to get the brush marks out of the paint and varnish and created a couple of new wear areas, and places where I broke through one coat of varnish to the next are painfully obvious.  I think, when any large areas like this are involved, it's not worth doing unless you have a proper airbrush.  Using a paintbrush seems to only be useful for small chips.

I'm got most of the mechanical problems worked out.  I have red flipper rubber coming to replace the yellow (the original machine used red), and once that's in place the glass goes back on.  I need to fabricate a back door for the backbox and decide what to do about the missing bits of wood on the backbox, but I'm leaning toward just leaving things alone.  The more I deal with paint the worse it looks.

I don't think anything can be done to remove the spraypaint from the backglass without destroying the art, so I'm just going to have to live with it.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on October 14, 2007, 10:00:00 pm
I finished repainting, varnishing and sanding the wear around the bottom bumper.  I don't have a pic yet; the results are okay, but if I could go back I think I would have left it alone. 
Well, once I put the posts and plastics back on I think the repair looks better.  It's easy to see with the playfield bare, but it's fine in actual play.  Here's the before and after:

Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: shardian on October 15, 2007, 08:12:29 am
That second pic is beautiful. :cheers:

Pics of lit pinballs in dark rooms always look awesome.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on October 15, 2007, 08:38:52 am
That second pic is beautiful. :cheers:

Pics of lit pinballs in dark rooms always look awesome.

Thanks...  I actually had an 8x10 made of that shot to hang in my game room.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on October 15, 2007, 09:56:12 am
That's definitely a case of you being like me - looking at a job you did pretty well and all you can see is the imperfections.  That's why I'm so afraid to do artwork touchups.  I'll never see it as well done.  An assembly you can take apart again and if it works well it works well - I'm too hard on my work to do artwork.

Looks pretty good to me.

For reference, could you get a shot of the touchup with the machine off and regular lighting? 
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on October 15, 2007, 11:25:01 am
For reference, could you get a shot of the touchup with the machine off and regular lighting? 
I took some but it looks like I didn't upload them to Flickr yet.  I'll have to post them when I get home from work.

Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on October 16, 2007, 01:02:32 am
For reference, could you get a shot of the touchup with the machine off and regular lighting? 

Here you go.  I changed the before and after to an unlit picture.  In this pic you can also see that I've put the proper bumper cap and flipper rubber on.  (The 100 bumper cap that was there belongs on the always-lit top bumper.)

In the second pic you can see some damage I did to the playfield when I was sanding the varnish on the touchup.  I didn't try to fix those.

The last pic was taken with the flash, which really highlights the repair because the new finish doesn't reflect as much and thus ends up looking darker.  It doesn't look that obvious in real life.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on October 16, 2007, 09:12:36 am

Hrm, the position of that bumper is tough in terms of drawing the eye.  Still, it looked good with the game powered, so it's a good touchup.  Since you oversanded this time maybe try a Magic Eraser for that last level of sanding... lighter than the lightest sandpaper but still abrasive enough to do what you need here.  Finer control.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: 2PacMan on October 16, 2007, 10:39:42 am
I think the touchups look good.  Not 100% perfect, but way better than the way it looked before.  No one would really notice unless you pointed out where you touched it up.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: shardian on October 16, 2007, 01:26:49 pm
I think you did a damn good job. I am depressed that I can't work on the playfield of mine yet. (personal promise not to until it is functional :angry:)
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: Chris on November 11, 2007, 10:30:32 am
I know you're all just dying to know how this is going...  :P

I had decided not to do any more touchups on the cabinet, but when I had my best friend over the first thing she said when she saw the machine was "Wow, the wood is really torn up."  Well, it's only damaged along the bottom of the backbox really.  The box looks like it got water damaged at some point; the plywood was delaminating, the top layer of ply had chipped off along the bottom, and the ply was warped with paint misssing at the top of the box.  The damage wasn't as bad as it looked, but of course with chunks of paint missing it really drew the eye.

In an earlier episide I had glued and clamped the wood back into submission, but this still left the missing chunks of ply.  I finally went at it with PlasticWood to fill it in, sanded the heck out of it, and re-painted.  (Unfortunately, sanding lightened up some of the green paint when I wasn't careful, but I think trying to fix it without an airbrush would look worse than leaving it alone.)

The results aren't perfect, especially the repainted red part of the curtain image, but it at least doesn't leap out at you now.
Title: Re: Bought my first pin (was: Pinball opportunity... should I buy?)
Post by: ChadTower on November 11, 2007, 06:18:30 pm

Not bad.  Not bad at all.