The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: Jouster on January 17, 2007, 01:48:36 am
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*******Start EDIT*****
Here is my running punch list: (Last updated - 3/1/07)
For Feb 3rd:
Recces, install and putty over Hinges1/24Install door stop1/25Cut Marquee slot1/24Drill holes for speaker board dowels (speaker board & sides)1/24Insert speaker board dowels1/24Drill Button Holes - front (5) - side (2)1/24Drill Exhaust holes in fan board1/24Finish CP design1/31Cut and wire CP1/31Glue all pieces together1/31Putty over my less than straight cuts.1/31 ::)
Paint cab 2/1Setup 'puter1/26Install guts2/2Mount monitor2/3- Get front end working?? - sorta
For March 2nd:
Design artwork 2/27Print artwork Received 2/28Plexi/Lexan (monitor, marquee & CP) 3/1T-moulding 2/24- LEDWiz?? - I doubt this will be happening...perhaps next cab.
Marquee light - 2/24 LEDs InstalledPower strip 2/7
*******End Edit*******
My turn!! After almost 2 and half months of reading about all of you doing projects, or reading about your past ones...I'm starting my own. When do I learn the secret handshake???
I first thought that I would just build myself an upright...but after doing a lot of reading on this site, and Saint's book, I figured I should start with something smaller...like a cocktail. Then I started reading up on those and decided that I should start with something even smaller...hence my bartop project.
Anyway, straight to the project goals:
1. I have two deadlines or milestones set...Feb 3rd (unit must be operational) and March 2nd (unit must be 100% complete).
2. Minimize costs as much as possible, unless a feature is just too cool to live without!!
3. Try and do as much as possbile myself...so I can really get my feet wet.
Reasons for the two milestones...
- Feb 3rd is the night of the next UFC PPV. I have been hosting viewing parties ever since I moved back to Tampa in May...and this should be a great night to debut my cab. It will give me a chance to identify any issues with modifications to my FE (unknown as of yet)...is it understandable to civilians? It will also give my CP a real world scenario to live through.
- March 2nd is the date of my father's 60th birthday party...this cab will be the gift for his birthday and new house. I'm also hoping that some of his friends think a cab would be a great gift for their kids, and I get a chance to make some for a profit!! ;D
- Also...I should stay more on track if I have a date to be done by. Since neither of the dates will change, I will need to be ready to go for the milestones.
I should not have a problem meeting the milestones as I'm only working about 3-4 days a week right now, with some MCSE classes sprinkled in. I should be able to devote an average of 3 hours a day to the project. Although, this last week I was only able to really work on it one day. I've been waiting for some parts to arrive so that I could get some final measurements before I really start to make a mess!
I don't have a name or theme yet. I'm thinking of using a mixture of green lightning (green is my dad's and my favorite color...must be the Irish blood) and some vectorized arcade characters. While nothing is 100% set yet, I DO want it to look professional. After all, my cab making skills will be on display at the party!! I just hope I have some!
I have started a blog to record my progress, it is located at joustercab.blogspot.com (http://joustercab.blogspot.com).
So far, all I have done is rip apart a pair of speakers, and cut my side panels.
Jouster
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Wow - February 3rd is an aggressive date! I hope you can get everything finished in time. So many questions.... Are you planning to angle the monitor? LCD or CRT? 1 or 2 players? Horizontal or vertical?
Good luck!
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Good luck, Jouster. Feb 3rd to be operational sounds doable to me, especially with your work schedule. But as others have pointed out, it may be dangerous to make it operational before finishing it, because you'll be too busy playing it to finish. ;D
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Nice project! February is a quick turn around for your first c ab. You'll need to make sure you have everything to do it.
Some questions for you:
What are you doing for controls?
What about t-molding?
Whats your encoder?
What about artwork?
Is the monitor horizontal or vertical?
If you don't have all those components lined up - I wouldn't be surprised if you miss your deadline. If you do miss it - don't worry. Half the fun of these mame cabs is actually building them. I did some reading on your blog and I see your expecting this cab to be cheaper than a full upright. From my experience, the cost difference is pretty insignificant.
As for the front end, I suggest Mala. I've used a variety of front ends and this was my favorite.
MCSE classes? You looking to be a network administrator? I actually need to update my MCSE from 2000 to 2003. I've got to take 2 tests. How are the classes?
Looks like a great project! Good luck and document! It's fun to read it again and others will also find it helpful.
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All I can say is that I don't envy your deadline. The project looks like it could turn out cool. It seems like it is gonna be a rush job but some people are way faster than others at this stuff. It should make for a pretty cool gift to your dad either way.
Heck if it gets to be a bit of crunch on the time deadline, you could always bust out the red & green duct tape to hold it all together...You could even use the tape maybe for your side art and bezel with your exacto knife. Get creative!! Really give it the JOUSTER touch, maybe throw in some blue and white. I believe Walmart has multi color paks for $6.95.
Good Luck with the project!! :cheers:
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Looks cool! I will keep an eye on this one. What software are you planning on running on it?
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Half the fun of these mame cabs is actually building them...
Hell, I'd say it's more like 75% .. Some have even said it's three thirds ;)
Good luck with the cab! ..and the DEADLINE .....
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Let's see...I think I have most of these features/concerns covered...although I didn't go into them.
As far as the monitor...I originally bought a 19" LCD from pcconnection.com (http://pcconnection.com) for $100 after rebates (just sent the forms out today!)...but when it got here I thought it might be a little big...so I ordered a 17" LCD for $70 after rebates. It looks a little better. I was originally thinking of rotating the monitor...if I do decide to do that, it will obviously be between milestones!! I'm quite sure I'll have my hands full getting everything done in time for the 3rd.
For controls...this will be a single player CP. I need to order the Ultimarc 360...probably tomorrow. I've already ordered the buttons and KeyWiz Eco 2 from GGG. Order shipped this morning. I was also thinking of getting a LEDWiz with the RGB drive + Electric ICE buttons...but that may prove to be either out of my scope for my deadlines or price...or out of the scope of my abilities right now. Instead of just ordering plain white buttons (for player 1/2 start & coin 1/2) I ordered the ICE buttons...so I will have some if I do decide to add this later on. However, for now my main goal is to get the thing working!!
I checked with a local Kinko's about vinyl printing...$12 a square foot. I don't know if that is standard...and that is the only place I have looked into so far. But since I only need about 6.5 sq ft, it might be worth it to avoid the painting process time and effort...I HATE sanding! I'll need to paint the insides anyway...but I'm not planning on making it perfect...hopefully no one will see it! Also, that $12/sq ft price is for the sticky back vinyl...they also will print to regular vinyl for $8/sq ft. I may go that route to save a few bucks...and then just glue the hell out of it...or tack it into the T-moulding groove??
Now that the monitor is here, I plan on getting the final measurements I need for the width of my cab...and then cutting the other pieces tomorrow. I was thinking of screwing and gluing...but now I'm thinking of using a dowel system...drill matching holes and glue in a wooden dowel to both ends. I think it should be fairly sturdy, I've assembled lots of furniture using a similar system...none of it has fallen apart on me yet!
I've been disappointed in the selection I've found for acrylic at my local hardware stores. It seems to be fairly expensive for even small pieces. I guess I'll need to start checking the web to see what I can find.
The computer is a slightly older system, so I will probably load a copy of Win 98 SE, I have an extra CD around here somewhere...I'll probably work on the system tomorrow as well. While I'm waiting to get some equipment in I might as well work on something! Once I get it setup, I'll need to start playing around with some FEs. My short list so far is MAMEWah, AtomicFE and Mala. I'm really only looking for this thing to play older classics...so I don't think it needs much more power than it has. I just need to double check that!!
Jouster
Lew: I actually have an MS in MIS, but it seems that everyone around here is looking for people that are certified. So I'm having to get them. The classes are ok, so far I've done the 70-290 & 70-270 courses...Win XP Pro & Server 2003. I should be taking my first test (XP) in the next month followed quickly by the Server one.
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I checked with a local Kinko's about vinyl printing...$12 a square foot.
What did you think about the quality of the vinyl printing? I didn't think much of it - I considered this route also but I wasn't happy with the vinyl offered by Kinkos.
I have been happy with their backlit vinyl for the marquee. I've used that on all of my systems and it's been fine.
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I know all about short deadlines. Just read my build that I finished for Christmas. :)
I'll offer some advice from my experience...
1. Price of upright vs. Bartop is very minimal (as noted above)
2. My uprights have been easier than my bartops so far, as far as complexity goes.
3. I've used Kinkos 3 times now for projects (CPOs), and have been happy. I've used the self adhesive vinyl, then laminated it ($3 extra for lamination, $15/sq foot). This worked out great for me for CPOs.
4. You can probably save a few bucks by rolling on paint rather than vinyl sides. This is of course is if you just want solid colored sides, and perhaps add a sticker later.
5. Use the yellow pages for both "Plastics" and "Glass" to find your plexi/lexan/glass that you want for your screen and marquee. Call around and try to find a place that has good "people-skills". Often you'll find a small glass shop that has "scraps" that they will cut down for you for rather cheap. It may be hard to find greylite, if thats what you are looking for, but Tampa is a big market, you should be able to find almost anything around there (I lived in Clearwater/Tampa for almost 30 years).
6. I have been very happy with Mala since switching to it from Mamewah. I think its easier to setup and change later.
If I think of anything else that might help you, I'll let you know.
Side question: If you are using a 360 joystick, why did you need the Keywiz? Are you planning on using more than 8 buttons? (I'm guessing so).
Good luck,
Stobe
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I know all about short deadlines. Just read my build that I finished for Christmas. :)
I'll offer some advice from my experience...
1. Price of upright vs. Bartop is very minimal (as noted above)
2. My uprights have been easier than my bartops so far, as far as complexity goes.
3. I've used Kinkos 3 times now for projects (CPOs), and have been happy. I've used the self adhesive vinyl, then laminated it ($3 extra for lamination, $15/sq foot). This worked out great for me for CPOs.
4. You can probably save a few bucks by rolling on paint rather than vinyl sides. This is of course is if you just want solid colored sides, and perhaps add a sticker later.
5. Use the yellow pages for both "Plastics" and "Glass" to find your plexi/lexan/glass that you want for your screen and marquee. Call around and try to find a place that has good "people-skills". Often you'll find a small glass shop that has "scraps" that they will cut down for you for rather cheap. It may be hard to find greylite, if thats what you are looking for, but Tampa is a big market, you should be able to find almost anything around there (I lived in Clearwater/Tampa for almost 30 years).
6. I have been very happy with Mala since switching to it from Mamewah. I think its easier to setup and change later.
If I think of anything else that might help you, I'll let you know.
Side question: If you are using a 360 joystick, why did you need the Keywiz? Are you planning on using more than 8 buttons? (I'm guessing so).
Good luck,
Stobe
:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
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Side question: If you are using a 360 joystick, why did you need the Keywiz? Are you planning on using more than 8 buttons? (I'm guessing so)
That's an excellent question. I am curious now too...
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Thought of another...
7. I used GGG Ice buttons on my latest project, and figured a LEDWiz would be a waste for the needs of this cabinet. So I just bought some of his LEDs, and wired them directly (w proper resistors, of course) to 5V, so they light up all the time when the cab is on. I didn't need flashing, color changing lights on this project. Now on my next project.... :)
8. Doing this was probably one of the more time consuming parts of my project (and I'm an electronics tech by trade). In my case, I had a GGG KW Eco controlling all joys and buttons, plus a single LED going to each button. This was a LOT of delicate wiring, and I'm guessing in a bartop, it could be even more hairy. Depends on how many buttons you're using.
9. I did buy one RGB drive unit from Randy to see what it looked like. Very nice idea. I think I would go that route if I went with a LEDWiz (althugh it would get rather pricey to do a big panel, just to get some "bling" out of it). But I like the idea of soldering some wires to a board, rather than soldering wires to long LED leads. And if you are going the non-LEDWiz route, you could just connect single wires from the RGB drive for Red, Green, or Blue, or play around with some more resistors to get other colors.
I added this info since you will have the ICE buttons. They look great by themselves, and you can easily add the LEDs later. (But don't get them from Radio Shack, get them online or from Randy).
-Stobe
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Thanks for the advice. I kept an eye on your project Stobe...it was part of the reason I set such short deadlines myself. I knew that I'd be more likely to finish it if I had a deadline, and seeing that these have been built in the same amount of time, or shorter, made me realize that it is possible for a first build.
As far as the buttons...my thinking was this:
4 admin buttons
3 pinball buttons
4 player buttons (perhaps only three...I ordered a 4th just in case)
4 player 1/2 & coin 1/2
The 360 can't handle that many so I needed another option...hence the encoder. I'm planning on putting some buttons on the front panel, pinball flippers on the sides, and the rest on the CP. I don't think it will be overkill...there should still be lots of empty space on the CP.
I'll need to start calling around for plexi/lexan pricing soon as well...although that isn't needed until the final milestone. Same with the art work...which I still need to start on.
Today I cut the middle pieces for the cab, cut my dowel down to 1" pieces and marked the layout on the side pieces. My progress was kinda thwarted by the fact that I got a lead on a full time job. If I get it, it will make my already short timeline even more hectic!! But having income is always a good thing!! It will help pay for beer anyway!! :cheers:
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Ok, I need some help on the CP.
Do yall think it would be better to have the player's buttons in a straight line, or 2x2?
Straight:
360 O O O O
2x2:
360 O O
O O
Or perhaps:
360 O
O O
O
If I end up going with only 3, I'm pretty sure they will be in a line...maybe with a slight curve.
Any suggestions as to which layout is best?
Jouster
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The 360 can't handle that many so I needed another option...hence the encoder.
I think you need another joystick on there so you can play robotron, 2 player joust, and 2 player mario bros. In fact, if you 2 dual joysticks with 4 buttons each, you could play those games, plus 2 player NES and SNES and Genesis as well.
As for the button configuration... this deserves some though. 4 buttons would give you complete compatibility with the few neo geo games that require the 4th button (Like Samurai Showdown and a few other fighting games). Otherwise, 3 is all you need. I'd do 3 or 4 buttons in a slight arch.
Of course, if you do 4 buttons in an arch, your only 1 more button away from having a decent defender layout.
Decisions decisions... I guess what I'm saying is.... there isn't really a right answer.
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Yes, I agree with leapinlew, a second joysticks for Robotron. Seriously, I'd base it on the games you enjoy playing the most and elaborate from there if possible. Also consider what button layout is most comfortable for you since your the one that'll be playing it most. You have a small footprint available so it might be tricky. Good luck.
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HELL,o ;D
With 3 buttons I'd go with a slightly curved line (check out Tomatocade) as I'd also do with a 4 button layout most probably.
With 4 buttons you might also consider the diamond shape: ie. version 3 rotated 90 degrees?
But then again, that's just my opinion and ...
... consider what button layout is most comfortable for you since your the one that'll be playing it most. ...
..words of wisdom :)
Good luck with the build!
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Here's my one player CP. I'm using a Ultimarc 360 and 3 action buttons. You have to make cuts somewhere regarding the games your cab will be able to play. This is for an 80% stand up but there is plenty of room to shrink it down for a bartop.
(http://bp3.blogger.com/_CXccc8RIW9I/RZJ-kygUFLI/AAAAAAAAACE/dBiFDibmRVY/s400/P1010112.JPG)
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Thanks for the input everyone. I guess I'll need to do a little more research to determine the exact games I plan on installing and go from there.
On a higher note...my cab went 3D today!!
My buttons also came in(the other day)...so tonight I will be playing with a cardboard CP.
I started to work on the computer I have for the cab - I ordered a "new" HD...but it was apparently already formated to NTFS, so using Win98 is out! I also have a spare copy of Win XP...so it shouldn't be a problem...it just wasn't expected. I also noticed a slight problem with the speakers I dissected earlier...apparently in my enthusiasm to get them opened I broke a small piece of metal used as a jumper...a quick fix with the trusty soldering iron, and they are as good as used!
I've included a "behind the scenes" look at my new, not-yet-patented level/drill design. I'm really starting to love the hot glue gun I got...it has soooo many uses! After that is a look at one of my sides with dowel holes drilled, then a board awaiting dowel implantation. The next pic is when I started to get a little giddy! Finally!! 3D!! The placement of the dowels in the base board weren't perfect...put with a little persuasion from my rubber mallet...it fit fine. Lastly, a couple of looks from the back and front after fitting the other boards with dowels.
(I'm considering editing my first post to include a list of items needing to be completed and their deadline...I think it might help me pick up the pace a little to see exactly where I am...and it is always a good feeling to cross something off that list!)
Jouster
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Looking good! 11 days to go.
My drill has a level built in - how high tech is that!
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I love bartops.
I have a spare LCD screen here at the moment and I think I will build one soon.
Jouster, I seriously hope you put an extra joystick in.
Playing Joust by yourself isn't half the fun as playing 2 players.
Keep at it!
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I'd love to put another joystick in...but the unit is only 17.5" wide...just wide enough for one person.
I can't tell you how many years I wasted...er...spent playing Joust on my Atari 5200 with a friend of mine. I played so much I ended up with "Atari hand"...carpel tunnel...as a kid!! But it sure was fun.
I won't be able to work on the cab at all today...between house work and work, I'm gonna be busy. Although I think when I get home I might work on the computer some more.
I made a really stupid mistake...I assumed the actual diagonal of the LCD screen I planned on using. I guessed a little short. So at least I don't have to debate whether I will make it rotate or not...unless I can figure a way to install a track that will make the screen tilt back to turn....hmmmm.
I did think of something else though...and I haven't researched it at all...but I also don't recall seeing it anywhere. I'm going to have to paint some of the cab anyway. What type paint do most people use? Latex, enamel...something else?
Jouster
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I'd love to put another joystick in...but the unit is only 17.5" wide...just wide enough for one person.
Heres my 16" bartop!
(http://tkfiles.storage.msn.com/x1pIjpkUX-8gH9I-dsraz2sMzmre2qeCnRj17pqMfiWS9FoxmfPUc9uKovg49F-CsSamhALJcVjBDGeaF8_FsLvPUARkJgE1JEkwiq9OaICn9LKEGqCl6BOVA)
Do what you got to do, but I thought I'd just say that 17.5" is enough! :)
I used latex on all of mine.
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Yeah, you should have no problem getting 2 players to stand side by side on a 17.5 inch wide CP. I even have a two player 6 button modular panel for my 20 inch wide Multi Williams themed Bartop.
Good luck. Looks like a good start so far. Your construction pics remind me of my own build.
Also, Leapinlew, cool bartop, love the theme. :cheers:
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Go on, add another stick. You will thank us in the end.
Here is mine:
(http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL757/2715941/5432451/115789228.jpg)
(http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL757/2715941/5432451/115789217.jpg)
One thing I did do to save room was rotate the joystick so the longest side is up and down. I also cut off the excess on the bottom mounting plate so I could mount the reverse and hyperspace buttons as close as possible. This worked extremely well.
Come on Jouster, do it!
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All this peer pressure...I just don't know what to do!!
Where's GI Joe when you need him?
I think the 2nd joystick will have to wait until the first revision...I've already ordered one 360...can't afford a second one and buttons right now. Although...when I can, I will need to make a two player CP...I'm now convinced of that.
It's been a slow couple of days on the project, I've had very limited time to work on it...my sister is leaving town tomorrow, so I should have more time after that. She has been in town for about a month...she was in Tailand for about three months...and then Alaska before that, and then Hawaii before that...etc. When she comes home...it isn't for very long, and then she's off again. So I gotta see her while I can!
All I have really accomplished these last few days was purchasing some hinges for my cab's back door...I also cut the MDF to have the hinges recessed. I'm thinking that I'll use some putty to cover them and then paint over that...I'm thinking it should look nearly invisible...time will tell.
I should be able to get a few things marked off my list tomorrow...more pics then.
Jouster
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:laugh2:
No pressure.
Stick to your budget otherwise you will never get it done!
And building another control panel won't be too hard later on.
Also don't worry about us lot hurrying you up, spend some time with your sister.
:cheers:
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Was just looking at your latest build pics. That is going to be one solid cabinet. All those dowels and the drilling by hand. My hand isn't as steady or accurate to get that kind of work done.
Looks Great, Keep it up, when you can
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Today was a productive day...I was able to cross off a few things from my punch list.
I got the hinges recessed, screwed in & puttied over...although one side will require some sanding to fix. I started to fill the right side and then added more putty to the mix...then it started to firm up much better. The left side looks much smoother. I will probably need to mix up some more tomorrow and even out the right side.
I also drilled my button holes for the front panel and sides. While I was working with the putty, I painted the front, speaker board and one of the sides' inside. After I painted the side, I realized that I still needed to cut out my marquee slot. You can also see where I had to fill in a space from a skill saw mishap on the painted side.
I've marked my CP, but not cut anything yet...I guess this first CP will have three player buttons, the 360, P1 start & coin, and P2 start & coin. Some may ask, "if you have only a one player setup, why do you need P2 start/coin??" I plan on putting some pinball games on here as well, and many older games allowed for multiple players...but only 1 could play at a time.
Jouster
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No Robotron, seems criminal to me. How about this for a button layout?? Plays Defender, Stargate, Robotron and really, a damn fine game of Vanguard if you were ever so inspired.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/Zeosstud/103_0865.jpg)
Zeosstud
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You might have problems with the glue not sticking to the dowels now that they are painted. They might not even fit now with the thickness of the paint on them. Take some time to sand that off and tape them prior to any additional coats of paint. Or if you are able replace them with fresh dowels after you are finished with the paint.
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Luckily, the dowels aren't that covered in paint...I was trying to be careful about getting them. I will try to fit them first...if they don't fit, I will sand them down some.
I do have a question for those with the Ultrastick 360...how much clearance is needed under a 3/4" CP??
I've put in the door stop for the back door. I bought some wire for the CP...but I need to get the 360 in first, it shipped yesterday.
I sanded the front panel and painted a second coat...did the same to the speaker panel. Also painted one coat on the angle/fan board.
As far the 'puter setup, I got ahold of a copy of Tiny XP...I will need to install that. The specs: AMD K6-III 450MHz with 256 MB RAM...I have a 3GB & 40GB drive (one for OS, one for apps).
Jouster
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what's tiny xp?
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what's tiny xp?
Tiny XP is a slimmed down version of the Windows XP Operating System. Someone out there should be able to point you where you can learn more.
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(Should have known, sigh. Oh well...) Googling... thx...
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I'm running short on time to meet my first milestone! 6 days to go!
I have the system setup...it is at least workable right now. I'll need to make a skin and do some other personalization to the OS and all, but for now it will run.
I'm nearly done painting the pieces that I plan on painting...just need to sand and apply the last coat to the back and top piece. Once I glue all of the pieces together, I'll spray some more paint in the joints to help hide some of the errors...er, I mean to make it more sturdy! ::)
I'm really waiting on the 360...it is in Ohio as of last scan...hopefully it is on its way south! Once I have that, I can determine the exact height that I need to have my CP, and then I can mount my side rails & velcro. After the side rails are on, I'll glue all the pieces together and start fitting in the system...then I'll need to wire the CP.
I think I've come up with a theme for the unit. As I was searching for a font to use on the marquee...since I'm waiting on the 360, I decided to start on the artwork...anyway, I came across a Gaelic font that I really liked. I'm leaning toward the name "Irish Luck". My marquee will consist of about 10 mini-marquees with Irish Luck in the middle surrounded by Celtic knotwork. For the CPO, I had three thoughts for art: 1. a 4-leaf clover in the middle with green lightning shooting out from around it, 2. a 3D Celtic knot on a background TBD and 3. a picture of green, rolling Irish hills with a Celtic knot border...and knot border for buttons.
I'm leaning toward the landscape pic, but I might do a version of all three...just to be sure. I have VERY limited Photoshop skills, I've made a few desktop wallpapers for a few companies I have worked at...mostly abstract stuff.
I haven't decided on side art yet...although it will probably depend on the CPO I end up going with.
Jouster
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3 days to go...
I got some more done the last couple of days...basically down to sanding & a final coat of paint...then mounting the system inside, and final hookups.
I should be able to make it in time.
Here are some shots of my CP...I was going to use quick disconnects, but couldn't seem to find a bag of just the female end...so I thought screw it, I'll just solder it. I never used to be very good with the soldering iron...but after learning to heat the parts, not the solder - it turned out to be much easier. It doesn't look half bad.
I'm gonna work on my artwork some more tonight.
Jouster
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Nice wiring .... :cheers:
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Thanks.
Here is a look at my marquee...any thoughts?
Jouster
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Hey Jouster,
Shouldn't one of those smaller marquee pics within your marquee be a joust one? It seems like the Irish luck is a little too light and small. Did you try filling out the entire marquee with the smaller pics and then superimpose your cab name on top of the pics. You'll be able to make the name larger that way and play with the name's transparency. This will allow you to to be able to see through it to the underlying pics.
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Hey Jouster,
Shouldn't one of those smaller marquee pics within your marquee be a joust one? It seems like the Irish luck is a little too light and small. Did you try filling out the entire marquee with the smaller pics and then superimpose your cab name on top of the pics. You'll be able to make the name larger that way and play with the name's transparency. This will allow you to to be able to see through it to the underlying pics.
I agree with this Jouster. I'm wondering if the final design will be hard to make out. I'm digging the name of Irish Luck - I'd run with that theme and skip the marquees all together. Keep throwing ideas around till you get something your completely happy with. Do you know who's going to print it yet?
As for the soldering - I think you'll be happier with it. My solder jobs haven't ever had a problem (even when I move the machines alot. My quick connects act a little goofy once in a while.
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You're really cruising on this, Jouster. Keep up the good work. Deadline this Saturday! :)
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What is holding your wires to the wood? Hot glue? Nice touch!
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Ok, so as I figured, the computer and wiring part would be the biggest PITA!
Mr. Murphy paid me a visit last night. It turns out that I am one of the lucky few to have a motherboard that doesn't want to play nice with the encoder. So then I figured, I'll just hook up some buttons to the 360 to at least get it playing something. That is done, I can see in the game controllers window that the buttons are being recognized. Now I'm having trouble with MAME32 and the FE I'm using right now.
Some how I set MAME to automatically load a game, and when I exit the game, MAME immediately tries to reload it. The only thing I can think of now is to uninstall MAME and reinstall it.
:banghead:
How do I set the button presses? I can't seem to find anything to allow me to map the keystrokes for the buttons being processed through the 360. I could get a game to load and play it with the keyboard...but that kinda defeats the purpose of building the cab.
:badmood:
BTW, yeah...hot glue. I'll take some pics tonight of the wiring inside the cab. It looks pretty good too.
Jouster
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I'm still working on this thing...but I think I should not only be nominated for "Biggest Boneheaded Wiring Job of the Year", but I should win, hands down!! I didn't notice until after EVRYTHING was soldered that I had used the NC post! :timebomb: I'm very happy that I didn't decide to cut off the "unused" post...or I'd have been screwed!
So I've spent the last hour or so fixing all of the joints! But it is done...correctly now. :dizzy:
Anyway, I've attached some pics of the thing...you can clearly see where the hinges are on the back...for now. I've had some trouble getting the putty to stay on the right one. However, I glued in the screw that seemed to be loose...and re-puttied it...and sanded and painted it again. I'll take a pic when I finally get it done...it will still be visible, not very.
I took apart my LCD monitor and figured out how to mount it...it had a metal case covering the boards on the back...I removed it and screwed it into the mounting board. Then I sprayed some paint on the sides of the board, in case it turns out visible. After that, I reattached the monitor...I had to drill holes to re-insert the screws that secured it in place.
Then when I went to pick it up...I uh...noticed...the screws sticking out of the back. A quick squirt with the hot glue gun (I told you it was useful!) and the screws are no longer dangerous.
As far as the encoder issues I'm having...I think that I might end up using my good laptop for tomorrow to run the thing using the 360's 8 button inputs. Although...how do I map the keypress to those buttons?? Help? I've tried searching on here, but it either returns 15,000 posts to sift through, or I get strange hits that don't help me much.
Jouster
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Milestone 1 reached...and passed.
I stopped and picked up a PS/2 to USB adapter to try with the encoder (it turns out the PS/2 port on the Mobo was dead) and it worked fine. So I quickly mounted the monitor inside the cab, and finished wiring what I needed to get it working. I even had time to kill to try and get MaLa set up with the Ultrastik mapping plugin...although I was having some issues, and this didn't end up being part of the final party fun.
I did have a functional cab for the UFC PPV. The fights were pretty good, but if they weren't, I'm sure the cab could have drawn more attention.
Now I can relax a bit and start working on the artwork some more...and the finishing touches (plexi, t-moulding, etc.)
Jouster.
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Grats, Jouster! Looking good.
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I'm still working on this...I'm currently doing some artwork design.
Unfortunately, the files are too big right now to post...when I finish up the next round of edits, I'll try to get them up for comments.
I have been playing on it a little a day...but not too much. I also have a few other things on my plate right now, so my time has been limited...but whose isn't??
Jouster
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Galaga looks all stretched out?
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Question. Are those mini light bulbs in the middle pic 4 posts up ^ ? I think thats a board for mounting the monitor right? What you use them for?
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they are screws with hotglue on them
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I would have just taken my dremel and a cut off wheel to them. Grind them down to the wood and no more points. ;D
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Yeah, those are hot glued screws. I don't have a Dremel or I'd have used that...I started trying to hacksaw them off and after some effort, I realized it'd be a whole lot easier to put the glue on them. I might end up putting a little strip of velcro on the upper supports and back of the monitor mount to reduce movement. It seems to work it's way forward a tiny little bit after a few hours of playing.
I will be using LEDs for the marquee light though. In fact I've been trying to determine whether I should order the GGG LEDs w/5v resistors or buy some at Radio Shack and wire them in threes w/a 5v resistor. Anyone have experience in wiring LEDs? I tried putting some on my Halloween costume (the A.W.E.S.O.M.-4000) but I ended up blowing them out, eventhough I read that was hard to do. I'm looking for suggestions...
Jouster
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I will be using LEDs for the marquee light though. In fact I've been trying to determine whether I should order the GGG LEDs w/5v resistors or buy some at Radio Shack and wire them in threes w/a 5v resistor. Anyone have experience in wiring LEDs? I tried putting some on my Halloween costume (the A.W.E.S.O.M.-4000) but I ended up blowing them out, eventhough I read that was hard to do. I'm looking for suggestions...
I'd get the ones from GGG they put out quite a bit of light and there is no way you can blow them out using the resister supplied with them. I have a bunch coming in my next order to light up my buttons and my buttons are standard Happs concave buttons. The ones I ordered are the same colors as the buttons they are going into for best lighting effect.
TTFN :cheers:
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My LEDs & T-moulding from GGG arrived the other day...but I've been busy working on my artwork.
Here's what I have so far:
Boot up screen:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=67306)
Marquee:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=67312)
Side Art:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=67314)
CPO:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=67316)
I'm trying to decide between these two for my joystick arrows:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=67308)
-or-
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=67310)
This is the last bit I need to finish the CPO...now I need to find a place to get them printed...cheaply. Then I need to rent a router (if possible) for the T-moulding...and then get the LEDs installed, and the Lexan/Plexi bought, cut & installed.
I'm still debating making a skin for the FE...I guess it will depend on the amount of time I have left before my final deadline.
Any thoughts on the arrows? As you can tell, I decided on Celtic knotwork throughout. I think it works for the theme...and the knots are all different, so it isn't completely repetitive. I found a free program on the net...it makes the knots very easy to make and edit...Photoshop does the rest! ;D
Jouster
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Very nice looking, Jouster. That's a very pretty CPO. I think I like the second joystick overlay best. It fits the Celtic knot theme better.
What's the program you used?
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I think I like your second joystick directional arrows better except I was thinking using the smaller inner yellow arrows from your first one for the diagonals on your second one. It really is a matter of choice though. I do like your new marquee much more than the previous one. I was hung up for a while myself trying to add old school game characters to mine and then finally said :angry:.
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Thanks for the input.
(+_+): You mean using the big arrows at the cardnials, and then the smaller arrows at the diags? I'll try that and post it.
Bremil: The program is called Knotworker...it has a trial version that allows 21 uses...I've still got like 12 left. It took a little playing with it to really figure it out...but the knots were fun to design.
Jouster
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Like this??
Jouster
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I think your sideart can be based on the theme, and not necessarily the name again. Perhaps a clover or something...
(http://www.extreme-temporary-tattoos.com/ProductImages/1622%204%20Leaf%20Clover.jpg)
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Oh, I like that one the best yet, Jouster.
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Not trying to be mean, but you should consider changing that CPO. It reminds me of something, but I can't quite put my finger on it...
(http://www.fond-ecran-image.com/bd/fond-ecran-teletubbies/243.jpg)
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Sweet! Maybe I'll use that pic for my CPO!!!
I've been less than sober a few times and thought Tinky-Winky was taking a wizzy-poo on my blankie! :dizzy:
I like that clover...perhaps I'll make some changes...
Jouster
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I played with that clover...but I'm still liking the knotbox with the name. I've tried some other stuff for the sides, but I haven't really liked anything. Maybe I'll keep playing around.
Side Art with Clover...(I do like this though)
Jouster
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Ok, I got my LEDs wired up...I bought some perf board and made my own mounts. You can see both sides here:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=68180;image)
I also twisted a pair of some old cable I had sitting around. It was from a Parallel port cable that I destroyed some time ago. I used a method I read about on here to twist them...I put one set of ends into a drill, and gave a couple of short blasts to the trigger while holding the other end of the wire. Then I soldered the wire to the LED leads and put down some hot glue on the speaker board in front of the speakers and stood the LEDs in the glue. Each LED should light up about 1/4 of the marquee.
I received notice that my marquee has been shipped from MAMEMarquees.com and when it arrives, I'll test out the brightness. If it isn't bright enough, I guess I'll find some local place and pick up another LED or so. I also ordered my CPO from MAMEMarquees.
I mounted my HD using some mini-blinds hardware...I'll post a pic soon. It is the little plastic piece that attaches to the bottom of the blinds that allows you to lock the blinds to the door or window. If that isn't clear enough of a description...just wait a day or two...the pics should clear it up.
I'm also "borrowing" a router from a hardware store. I was very worried about this part for some reason. I guess partly because I'd never even known about a router that wasn't IT related. Plus all the warnings about it getting away from you and doing damage...but I found it very simple...after I put the slot cutting bit on the correct direction!! (That seems to be a BYOAC blunder on a lot of first cabs.) Luckily I had read enough posts that when the first couple of seconds I smelled burning wood...I stopped, unplugged the router and flipped the bit. Tried it again and it was very smooth. I bought....sorry, borrowed...a B&D FireStorm (w/vaccum attachment) so the mess was minimal. I still need to route the CP...which I won't do until the CPO comes in I guess. I installed the T-molding around the cab...it looks nice.
Getting close to the final deadline...this Friday!!
Jouster
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Like this??
Jouster
Sorry about that Jouster, I could have sworn I replied to this. Yes like that except I was thinking just the one triangle in each diagonal and in the center. I'm curious what size your LCD is. It looks huge.
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Yeah, it's a 19"...there is very little space around it. It will require a thin bezel.
I got it for $90 after rebate (Which I'm still waiting on...but have been notified that the rebate has been received and is being processed.) from pcconnection.com (http://pcconnection.com)
Jouster
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I should have known something like this would happen...
Tonight the POS computer I was using blew out the PCI slots. So I have no USB, NIC, or sound...basically, I have a giant paperweight.
Tomorrow is my deadline, and there is no way it can be done now. I had the CP finished, acrylic cut and mounted over the CPO, marquee cut and put in place (Which both look great.) Nearly everything was done...but now I'm screwed.
I guess I'll have to pick up another computer when I get back from my trip and finish it up later. It sucks though because I'm missing the big party debut!
Jouster
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so no party pics? :cry:
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I should have known something like this would happen...
Tonight the POS computer I was using blew out the PCI slots. So I have no USB, NIC, or sound...basically, I have a giant paperweight.
Tomorrow is my deadline, and there is no way it can be done now. I had the CP finished, acrylic cut and mounted over the CPO, marquee cut and put in place (Which both look great.) Nearly everything was done...but now I'm screwed.
I guess I'll have to pick up another computer when I get back from my trip and finish it up later. It sucks though because I'm missing the big party debut!
Jouster
Jouster -
breathe.... focus...
Now. Figure something out.
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Update!!
Actually I was able to get the thing working by quickly setting up my laptop to run MAME...with limited games and no front end...but it did work.
However, after the party, I packed all night, and got prepared for my trip...so no time then to post pics. I just got back yesterday, and am still trying to catch up...so still no pics. But they are coming soon!
Quick shout out to MAMEMarquees.com for the quick turn around time on my marquee and CPO...and they look great!
Jouster
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Glad you could get the cab working even on a limited scale. ;D
TTFN :cheers:
Kaytrim
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Ouch...three months to the day since my last post...
Unfortunately I can't really say "I've been working on it and making progress...I just haven't posted." Cause I haven't!!
The PC I was using in here died the night before I was supposed to gift it to my dad...after a tiny little meltdown that included phrases like "I spent how much money and time on this thing the last couple of months...and THIS is how I get rewarded??!"...also included was "F%^K!!" a few times.
Then a bite to eat and a couple of beers...and it hit me...I could use my laptop to at least get the thing running and somewhat operational for the party. So I spent half the night getting my laptop hooked up and setup to run MAME and at least run Galaga...cause I had that one running before...so I figured there was hope that I could get it running again.
Then the afternoon of the party, I had another slight melt down when I couldn't get MAME to accept my control inputs...that was fun...and also featured some choice phrases. However...Kaytrim literally saved ---my bottom--- and the party by IMing me help until I got it working...with about 10 minutes to shower and get ready...but damn it...it worked! So I don't think that I had properly thanked Kaytrim previously...and I wanted to make sure that I took care of that now. Thank you, thank you & thank you again!!
So...on to the fun part:
I sent out a desperate email to family and friends begging for old computer parts (my budget on this project was long ago a tiny speck in my rear view mirror.) And luckily I had a friend that just bought a brand new MacDaddy computer setup...and he is giving me his P4 2.8GHz 1GB RAM "old" system! I should be getting it from him this Saturday when he comes over to watch the UFC PPV.
I'll include some pics here also:
The cardboard mock-up...
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=77322;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=77324;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=77326;image)
I don't think the importance of a good cardboard mock-up can be overstated...while this one is by no means 'complete'...it gave me a great idea of how big things would be...really drove a few decisions without much thought being required once I had a tangible reference. I also made a cardboard mock-up of my CP...actually I went through about three of them...the only thing that I would still change is that I wouldn't have drilled the first little hole until the CPO had come in...it's a little off...but it still looks great.
Real thing...
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=77344;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=77346;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=77348;image)
If you look closely...you can just barely see my wife's current project scattered all over the table (putting together a scrapbook of her recent graduation photos). Luckily her project is invisible to most people although mine some how are always a mess...funny how the marriage thing works sometimes...isn't it?
Anyway...you can see the slightly misaligned buttons on the CPO below...while they aren't off by that much...next time I'm not touching the drill till the CPO has arrived!
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=77350;image)
I still need to fit my Lexan in front of the monitor and print out a bezel...things that went on the back burner at the last minute when the excrement hit the wind creating device! But I guess things aren't all bad...having the extra time has allowed me to also realize that I need to increase the LEDs behind the marquee...it is WAY too dark...even with the limited areas that allow light through...it is too dark! This is something easily fixable...just need to get the parts and do it...but this could be done whenever, and I'm not that worried about it at this point.
Anyway, I'll be glad to have this project up and running again.
Jouster
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Glad I could help you out Jouster. I noticed you on IM just before I left the office today and wondered how things went with the bartop. In the time you were gone, has it really been 3 months, I also built and delivered a bartop for my Dad. ;D (link in sig)
I also used LEDs to light my marquee. I used 4 white button blasters from GGG and it was just fine for my taste. I could have added 2-3 more but I didn't want it too bright.
TTFN :cheers: and welcome back,
Kaytrim
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Well...yet another little set back, and then salt in the wound.
My friend forgot to bring over the computer...and then he proceeded to destroy my Galaga high score by about 40%!! :censored:
Although, I did get a few more people to see the thing working, so that's always fun. I'm going to continue looking for an older pc. Quick question though...if I run an older version of MAME, does the rom set need to match the version or just be at least from that version?
If that isn't clear enough, maybe I could expound a bit...
Jouster
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Yes the rom version must match the version of MAME. Most roms will work from one version to the next but there are some where drivers have changed or there was a better dump or other reasons. You can use CLRMAMEPro and a rollback set of roms to get the set to match the version of MAME you are using.
TTFN :cheers:
Kaytrim
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Forward progress!!
Well, my friend did finally bring me his old PC...without a HD. That should have been fine because my HD had been working...until now. I had partitioned the 40GB drive into a 3GB C: and a 37GB D:. Unfortunately, the D: isn't being recognized at all...and 3GB isn't enough to handle everything right now.
Soo...I found a place through Craigslist that is like 30 miles away...they have lots of older systems for pretty cheap. I picked up 2 systems while I was there. Both are:
Compaq small form factors
P3 - 733MHz
128 MB RAM
10 GB HD
Integrated video, LAN, sound
2 USB ports
I think that I have some extra sticks of RAM laying around that will fit too..so that will help.
They cam with Win 2k on them, but I'm thinking of putting Tiny XP on instead...much smaller footprint.
Anyway, back to work...
Jouster
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While it looks like a great project, you do seem to be having "Irish Luck" huh? ;D
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What games are you planning on running on this? If Mame only, everything should work find. If, however, you are going to be loading up a bunch of Windows games (oh, say, 5-10 pinball games for example) your 10 gig drive may be a bit small.
Irish luck to you finishing up this project.
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Start of new page...so I'm moving my punch list to here.
Recent activity: [Updated 7/30]
- Removed old / nonworking PC
- Acquired new PC
- Installed Tiny XP - Beast Edition
- Reconfigured start-up for PC (/noguiboot switch right now)
- Removed GP-Wiz and reinstalled Key-Wiz (this is because the PC I got keeps throwing keyboard errors if it doesn't detect one & I've found no way to bypass them.)
- Rewired the CP and other buttons...removed non-ground soldered wires for quick disconnect capped wires
- Switched 19" monitor for 17" monitor installed vertically
- Made Mala layout
- Make smart power strip
- Install monitor plexi & bezel art
- Troubleshoot MAME config
Still to do:
- Rig up new power switch
- Umm...design bezel art (maybe not...we'll see)
- How could I forget playtesting???
I've spent the whole weekend working on the cab...mostly trying to get the new PC setup and then installed into the cab. The PC is a small form factor(SFF)...the only things vertical on the board is the CPU fan and heat sink, RAM, and a PCI riser that I can't boot without. This is nice in the fact that it is fairly low profile...on-board video, LAN, USB, PS/2 & audio. However, this SFF has a couple of issues...the PCI riser needing to be installed is one of the major ones...and the other is that the power button is a tiny little button on the motherboard...no wires or jumpers to extend it. So I'll need to either desolder the button or find the power points and solder some wires on to the mobo.
I also spent some time rewiring everything. With the new SFF board...I needed to rearrange some stuff in the cab. I had a decent wiring job done already...but it was better looking than it was functional...the wire I used was solid core...and therefore not very flexible. It didn't fit in the little space I had for everything there (Key-Wiz, button bottoms, U360 bottom, USB cable. By rewiring, I saved a decent amount of space and also gained the flexibility of using smaller, stranded wire. However, I need to finish checking all the connections on the Key-Wiz...some buttons are not making a good connection all the time. I'm using the end of an IDE cable...I'll add some pics later...for the Key-Wiz connections.
I spent lots of time this weekend on artwork. I put together a MaLa layout for the now vertical system. It isn't anything original...I saw some others that I liked, and tried to duplicate some of those aspects into something that ties into the theme.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=80149;image)
I still need to put some more directions in the lower left corner...to tell the user how to navigate. I'd hate to be disturbed if I'm in the other room drinking a beer...and have to walk over to show some idiot how to go from game to game or list to list.
I'm sure at least someone is wondering why in the world I would go with a smaller monitor...and normally I'd be right there with you...but there were actually three reasons. 1. Most of the games that I have installed are vertical games...doesn't make much since to have the majority of games have to be shrunk...does it? 2. The 19" monitor didn't leave much of any room for instructions on the sides. The 17" leaves nearly 3" down both sides. 3. I decided to use the front panel of the monitor as the black bezel...both the casing and panel of the 17" are slimmer than the 19". I thought I had measured correctly to put in the monitor glass/plexi, but apparently not. I can't put any plexi in front of the 19"...unacceptable.
I have recently run into an issue...this only just happened too btw. I had the machine running fine and was able to play a few games of Pac-Man and Mrs. Pac-Man with just the joystick plugged in. Then I installed the Key-Wiz and the new layout...I had problems with some of my button connections...but was able to play...then I rebooted or something...don't recall exactly what was done between it working and not...but then I couldn't use the joystick. I started going through MAME config options through MaLa...but now I can't get any games to run...I get the starting screen...the ROM boot screen...then back to MaLa. And now I can't even back to the joystick not working.
So, I'm calling it quits for tonight...figured I'd be better served by posting this than getting pissed at the cab.
Jouster
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Well, more progress made this weekend:
I started on a new power solution. The old solution was a simple power strip with the on/off button extended. This worked because I had an AT system before. The new system is not, and didn't leave the old solution as viable. I bought the 12V relay that has been mentioned on here in the "one button" threads...and spent WAY longer than should have been necessary to get it fitted into the strip. Not having a Dremel really made it take much longer! I had to mark and then use a knife to cut the plastic pieces...then use some pliers to remove them. After finally getting the inside hollowed out enough, I had a devil of a time getting the wires to solder onto the copper strips. It was such a pain that I even tried using quick disconnects (they fit onto the strips perfectly.) However, the wire I was using did not want to bend enough...so after getting everything soldered and/or connected...I had to undo it. I found some slightly smaller wire laying around and used that instead. It worked much better and I was able to get the hacked strip back together and sealed up. I tested it and it is working.
I also had an extra push button (I originally thought I'd use 4 player buttons, but dropped to 3) I had drilled a hole in the back to let the power strip's cord come out...it was the same sized hole needed for a button...so I installed the button and wired it up to the motherboard's power button. A single button press now turns on the computer which then turns on the speakers and monitor. (My marquee LEDs are feed from my Key-Wiz.) I also had a small rectangular hole for the power strip's switch. I decided to use the power plug off of the power supply for the computer that died on me. Then I used my router and made the hole big enough to hold the outlet. I still need to hack the end off of the strip's plug and wire it to the outlet. The cab has a nice cleaner look to it now with a detachable power cable and a nice green push button on the back.
One other thing I did was I picked up some black poster paper at Wal-mart and cut my bezel. Nothing fancy right now, just needed to finish the look for the front.
I'd post some pics...but my camera doesn't appear to be working...not sure if it a battery thing or not...
Jouster
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I am really starting to think the "Irish Luck" thing is not quite there with you....
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I am really starting to think the "Irish Luck" thing is not quite there with you....
Why do ya think we drink so much??
Jouster
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Just caught up with your project thread. Believe it or not, you've actually made much faster progress than I have, particularly on the art. Great job so far and git 'er done!
:cheers:
Chris
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I took Irish Luck with me to a friend's house last Friday...this is a buddy of mine that I've known since 2nd grade. He had been living in Ohio the last four or so years doing his residency. He moved back to Florida a little over a week and a half ago. It was a small group, only 6 others...but I was able to get some real world testing on it.
I learned something...most people would rather ask how to do something than look it over and figure it out for themselves. I will definitely need to put some instructions on the monitor glass. The directions I have on my MaLa screen helped...but people still kept asking how to start (plus I had to explain that they still needed to coin up first).
Anyway...it was kinda funny that the wives seemed to be more interested in it at first. And everyone had that one game that they played...Q-bert, Frogger, Joust II...not the ones I would have thought would be most played...but whatever.
The setup seemed to handle the punishment well...so I'm pleased with that. However, I didn't have it set to save high scores like I thought I did. Forgot to move the hiscores.dat file into the MAME folder apparently.
My buddy will be having another party this weekend...I'm planning on taking IL again...with highscores saving now...and more people planning to be there...it should be some more good exposure.
Jouster
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That is an interesting idea. Taking your bartop to a party. I tend to think that the party would be where the bartop is. I guess it works, mountain, Mohammad and all. I am glad to hear that you are getting the bugs worked out. :applaud:
TTFN :cheers: