The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls

Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: AlanS17 on November 08, 2006, 08:21:26 pm

Title: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 08, 2006, 08:21:26 pm
I'm starting a new thread because discussion on the topic is over. I've got an empty Space Invaders Deluxe that I'm converting for use as a MAME machine. Considering the great condition it's in, I'm not going to do anything to change its outward appearance. It will only play 2-way, 1-button games to avoid changing the control panel.

This includes (but not limited to):

I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. I'll have to look them up. (If anyone can help me, there's got to be a way. I know there used to be some sort of searchable index online.)

Follow my progress at:
http://www.skloss.com/alan

Pictures:
(http://static.flickr.com/116/292441102_f7c1cd1d37_t.jpg) (http://www.skloss.com/alan/albums/album/72157594362927326/photo/292441102) (http://static.flickr.com/115/292441187_0b427aaef9_t.jpg) (http://www.skloss.com/alan/albums/album/72157594362927326/photo/292441187) (http://static.flickr.com/113/292416268_f9a03693e1_t.jpg) (http://www.skloss.com/alan/albums/album/72157594362927326/photo/292416268)
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 08, 2006, 08:25:30 pm
On another note, I don't know what's up with the control panel overlay. It's in good condition, but I haven't seen it anywhere else on any other SID machines. I'll eventually be replacing it with the original metallic overlay.

The front glass is also not in nearly as good of condition as it appears to be. When you light it up, you can see all the cracks in it. I'm looking for a replacement for that, too. I found a plexi replacement online for a decent price, but I really want glass.
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 08, 2006, 08:41:58 pm
I've de-cased the monitor this afternoon. The hardest part of the whole thing was actually getting the plastic casing off the back. The rest was pretty much a snap. It's going to fit in well where the original B/W monitor used to sit. I already tested it out.

One thing is different, though. The neck on the back of the tube is really long so the original shelf that held the B/W monitor chassis had to be removed.

Associated blog post:
http://www.skloss.com/alan/2006/11/08/de-casing-the-monitor/

Pictures:
(http://static.flickr.com/100/292416514_c1961a2013_t.jpg) (http://www.skloss.com/alan/albums/tags/decased/photo/292416514) (http://static.flickr.com/107/292416457_24c0c4ab5c_t.jpg) (http://www.skloss.com/alan/albums/tags/decased/photo/292416457)
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 08, 2006, 09:49:48 pm
Since this machine will only be running a few classic games, the installation will be tiny. That's why I'm using a 128MB compact flash (CF) card. I already did this with another machine of mine so it will be as easy as making an image of that CF card and tweaking it for my new project. The CF card and CF/IDE adapter are both in the mail on the way here. I'll have more to report on the subject when they actually arrive.

Software Setup:

Associated blog post:
http://www.skloss.com/alan/2006/11/08/its-begun/
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: theCoder on November 08, 2006, 10:39:37 pm
That's a gorgeous looking cab.  Have you thought about restoring it?   All you need is a power supply, transformer, maybe a monitor or two, a motherboard, and a wiring harness.  You might check eBay.  They come up for auction from time to time.
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 08, 2006, 10:47:52 pm
 :lame:
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: theCoder on November 08, 2006, 10:55:17 pm
Just pok'n a little fun.   ;)
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: quarterback on November 09, 2006, 11:06:57 am
Hey Alan, great thread that I'll be watching with great interest because I have a similar project in my near future.

Question, what sized PC monitor are you using (19"? 21"?) 

Also, did you find that the mounting 'ears' match up with the two wooden support planks inside the cab so it'll just drop in, or are you having to do some other 'adapting' in addition to the removal of the bottom shelf?

Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: quarterback on November 09, 2006, 11:22:20 am
It will only play 2-way, 1-button games to avoid changing the control panel.

I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. I'll have to look them up.

You could almost play Tetris.   

Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 09, 2006, 11:26:11 am
Hey Alan, great thread that I'll be watching with great interest because I have a similar project in my near future.

Question, what sized PC monitor are you using (19"? 21"?) 

Also, did you find that the mounting 'ears' match up with the two wooden support planks inside the cab so it'll just drop in, or are you having to do some other 'adapting' in addition to the removal of the bottom shelf?


Very good questions! I can tell you've already looked into this sort of thing. I'm using a Dell 19" flat CRT monitor that is going to work very well size-wise. It's pretty much a direct replacement. It just barely misses the original holes by a matter of millimeters.

There's a little bit of good overlap between the monitor's holes and the cabinet's holes, but not quite enough to fit a screw through. I'll have to expand the original holes in the SID monitor supports. I'm taking special care not to make any changes to the cabinet so I changes wouldn't prevent someone from dropping an original SID monitor back into some time in the future.

I'm getting ahead of myself, though. This will all be explained (and include pictures) when I actually mount the new tube. I'm gonna try to do that later today.
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: Glaine on November 09, 2006, 11:58:27 am
As far as other games you can run on it, don't forget asteroids and other versions of it and Star Wars (not the movie one, there is one of the same name that plays like space invaders but you manually fly missiles up to space ships).

And the searchable database of games is here:
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/

I was trying to buy this off of you to do the same thing as you are doing actually, have fun.
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: FunWithFire on November 09, 2006, 12:01:09 pm
Doesn't Asteroids have three buttons as well as the left/right directionals? Fire thrust and hyperspace (something like that)
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 09, 2006, 12:17:00 pm
As far as other games you can run on it, don't forget asteroids and other versions of it and Star Wars (not the movie one, there is one of the same name that plays like space invaders but you manually fly missiles up to space ships).

And the searchable database of games is here:
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/

I was trying to buy this off of you to do the same thing as you are doing actually, have fun.

Thanks for that address. That's what I was looking for. I might also take the opportunity to upgrade my MAME cocktail based on that database.

And I found Star Wars. It's a bootleg of a game called Galaxy Wars. I'll definitely be adding that one.
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: spriggy on November 09, 2006, 12:26:17 pm
Check out 'Cosmic Guerilla'  Al.. if you haven't already.

Great little off-shoot of the SI theme...... IMO anyway
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: FunWithFire on November 09, 2006, 12:44:01 pm
Isn't Mario Bros just a two directional and one button?
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: IG-88 on November 09, 2006, 03:47:40 pm
Since this machine will only be running a few classic games, the installation will be tiny. That's why I'm using a 128MB compact flash (CF) card. I already did this with another machine of mine so it will be as easy as making an image of that CF card and tweaking it for my new project. The CF card and CF/IDE adapter are both in the mail on the way here. I'll have more to report on the subject when they actually arrive.

Software Setup:
  • Operating System: FreeDOS with 128MB RAM disk
  • MAME build: AdvanceMAME
  • Frontend: GameLauncher

Associated blog post:
http://www.skloss.com/alan/2006/11/08/its-begun/

Hey Alan. You wouldn't have time to go into a bit more detail on how you set this CF card up would ya? I'm by no means a dos guru, but maybe, with your help, I could get this figured out.
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 09, 2006, 04:24:14 pm
Not a problem. It's been a while since I set it up (since I'm just using an image of the first one), but I'll see what I can do to elaborate.

First I installed the CF card as a hard drive using the CD/IDE adapter. It's then registered as a 128MB hard drive. It's compact, it's solid-state, and it's silent. What more could you want in an arcade machine?

From there you can work with it as if it were any other hard drive. Setting it up follows the same basic steps as any MAME installation:

1.) install the OS (FreeDOS)
2.) install the emulator (AdvanceMAME)
3.) install the frontend (GameLauncher)
4.) tweak for performance (RAM disk)
5.) wrap it up (autoexec.bat)

I installed FreeDOS on it. You download a bootable CD image from FreeDOS.org (http://www.freedos.org/) and burn it. Make sure you get the minimal "fbasecd" installation. All the bells and whistles take up unneeded space. It will guide you through the installation process.

After that was all installed, I got to work with getting MAME running. I went  with AdvanceMAME since it's very tweakable in DOS and allows the use of onboard audio controllers (which is handy for those of us without Sound Blasters). I won't go into the details of setting it up.

Once I got the emulator working reliably, I installed the frontend. I chose GameLauncher as the frontend. I got that set up and going. Again, I won't go into details.

Now here's the tricky part - the part you're probably most interested in hearing. I editted my autoexec.bat file so that it would do a few things for me. First I got it to launch GameLauncher at startup.

That's easy enough, but it was taking the better part of a minute to load a simple game. Why? Because DOS sucks with memory management. Solution? Create a RAM disk! A RAM disk basically builds a partition in RAM and assigns it a drive letter so that it can be treated as a regular hard drive. Since RAM is so much faster than the hard drive, it makes everything on the RAM disk faster to execute - MUCH faster. I believe I designated my RAM drive to be 64MB since that's half of my total RAM and assigned it a drive letter of "x:", but don't quote me.

Anyways, once I had the RAM disk working, I updated my autoexec.bat to reflect those changes. From there, it's all about leveraging the RAM disk. The more you copy onto the RAM disk at startup, the slower your startup process takes. That's not cool for an arcade machine when people expect "instant-on" capability. All you really need to move is the executables and their config files. The ROMs can stay on the CF card. So then you update your autoexec.bat file again to set up the copy process at startup.

If you don't care about game saves, you're done. If you do care about game saves, make sure they're maintained on the CF card and not on the RAM disk. Otherwise you'll lose them everytime you shut the computer down. Any config changes need to also be performed on the CF card if you want tohem to persist.

TADA! I hope that was more helpful than it was confusing. If you absolutely need more info, I can probably snag a copy of my autoexec.bat and config.sys files for your review.

For those people who anticipate having trouble setting up something in DOS, I recommend checking the following thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=58809.0

spystyle has built a DOS installation disk that looks very promising. Though I prefer to do it myself to get it just the way I want it, his method seems to work. I can't promise a fool-proof installation, but I can tell you it's a good spring board.
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: quarterback on November 10, 2006, 12:45:05 pm
Check out 'Cosmic Guerilla'  Al.. if you haven't already.
Great little off-shoot of the SI theme...... IMO anyway

Man, that game is much harder than I thought it would be!
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 10, 2006, 01:59:56 pm
This de-cased monitor is becoming a royal pain in the rear with trying to mount the chassis in a place where I can still attach it to the tube. I might be taking a different approach if I can't figure something out soon. I'll definitely never be de-casing another monitor, either. This is the second one I've done, and they just aren't worth the trouble...

It sucks because I already have this monitor for free, but it's very quickly becomes not worth it. I just don't want to spend money on another solution.

Associated blog post:
http://www.skloss.com/alan/2006/11/10/monitor-woes/
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 12, 2006, 11:41:32 pm
Well I'm tired of dealing with that monitor for a while. I'm looking into other options. that doesn't mean I can't make progress, though!

Today I started on the software setup. I made a drive image from the CF card in my cocktail cabinet, and used that as a base for my new one. Since they're both DOS-based, it's an easy thing to do.

Associated blog post:
http://www.skloss.com/alan/2006/11/13/started-on-the-software/

Picture:
(http://static.flickr.com/108/296093385_3596fb19e0_t.jpg) (http://www.skloss.com/alan/albums/tags/cf/photo/296093385/) (http://static.flickr.com/115/296093442_dd6850804b_t.jpg) (http://www.skloss.com/alan/albums/tags/cf/photo/296093442/) (http://static.flickr.com/110/296093506_35824b19c6_t.jpg) (http://www.skloss.com/alan/albums/tags/cf/photo/296093506/)
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 24, 2006, 04:11:26 pm
I've been banging my head against this monitor problem for close to two weeks now. I haven't been able to track down a suitable monitor replacement, and the one I have just sucks. I had no idea what I was going to do...

Then I remembered I have a 17" kiosk touchscreen monitor just chilling in the garage. Sure it's a little small and I will lose touchscreen capability, but it beats spending more money and it has instant-on capabilities. No hacking involved!

I'm out of town right now, but I'll be jumping back into this when I get home. I'll keep everyone up to date when I get some pictures and stuff.

(On a side note, if anyone is interested in trading their 19" VGA open frame monitor for my 17" Elo USB touchscreen kiosk monitor, let me know. I'm all about that.)
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 27, 2006, 11:45:33 am
Well I took some measurements on the touch screen this morning. It looks like I'll be able to make it fit after all. Until further notice, that's the route I intend to take. I'm going to try to make some progress on it this week and get some pictures up.
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: newbee on November 27, 2006, 07:49:25 pm
Great job on the arcade.
 I would like to know, what type of computer system are you using for the arcade, and what types of compact flash cards can be used as a bootable device?
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 27, 2006, 07:55:44 pm
Thanks for the compliments!

The computer I'm using is way overkill. I'm just using it because it's a spare. It's a 1.6GHz AMD. I don't know who makes the motherboard, but everything is integrated, including audio and video. I'm considering using a spare mini-itx board I've got on the shelf, but I keep thinking I'll use it for an HTPC someday.

Any type 2 compact flash card can be used as a bootable device. That's a limitation of the adapters and not the card, though. To be honest, I've never actually even seen a type 1 compact flash card. The secret is the CF/IDE adapter, though. That allows you to use your humble CF card as a bootable IDE device. They can be had on Ebay with shipping included for under $10 each. I bought a 3-pack in case I ever needed spares.

If you've using the setup for classic games, you don't even need a big CF card.
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: newbee on November 28, 2006, 12:46:20 pm
I would like to look at the autoexec. and config. files, that you will be using on your Arcade, maybe I could use them as well, once I get the CF/IDE adapter  and Free DOS cd delivered to me.
  I have read somewhere that the intergated sound, for the min-ITX motherboard, had some problems working in DOS, and he had to use a ISA card, to get to work.
  I wish I could remember where I saw that article.

Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on November 28, 2006, 01:15:13 pm
  I have read somewhere that the intergated sound, for the min-ITX motherboard, had some problems working in DOS, and he had to use a ISA card, to get to work.
  I wish I could remember where I saw that article.


Well I don't think standard MAME can handle much else than a soundblaster audio driver (though I may be wrong). That might be why someone chose the ISA card route.

AdvanceMAME can handle those built-in AC' 97 audio chipsets that come on most motherboards these days. That's why I went that route. No additional hardware required.

Every once in a while, I still get a hiccup. Otherwise, it works like a champ. Those issues are probably different from one motherboard to the next.

Mini-itx boards don't even have ISA card slots so I don't know what that guy was talking about that did the write-up you were looking at. I think most mini-itx boards use the AC' 97 codec. AdvanceMAME totally supports that.

And to prove I'm not talking straight out of my butt...
Mini-itx ML series spec sheet from Via:
http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/mini_itx/epia_ml/index.jsp#spec
AdvanceMAME driver info from SourceForge:
http://advancemame.sourceforge.net/doc-advdev.html
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: KDOG on February 13, 2007, 06:16:25 pm
I was wondering if you could send me a copy autoexec.bat and config.sys to look at. I am doing something similar but can't get my ram drive to work right.
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: Donkey_Kong on February 13, 2007, 07:07:55 pm
Doesn't Asteroids have three buttons as well as the left/right directionals? Fire thrust and hyperspace (something like that)


Cool looking project Alan!! FWF is right, Definitely check out Mario Bros. It is a 2-way R-L & 1 button. Love it!


 :cheers:
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: leapinlew on February 13, 2007, 07:41:53 pm
Doesn't Asteroids have three buttons as well as the left/right directionals? Fire thrust and hyperspace (something like that)


Cool looking project Alan!! FWF is right, Definitely check out Mario Bros. It is a 2-way R-L & 1 button. Love it!


 :cheers:
It's a 2 player game, but if single player is good - check out a little known game called Joust!
Title: Re: New project: Space Invaders MAME
Post by: AlanS17 on February 14, 2007, 03:37:26 pm
Joust... That seems vaguely familiar...  ???
(Yes, that's a joke.)