Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Woodworking => Topic started by: javeryh on August 13, 2006, 09:55:06 pm
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If you don't predrill and two things can't occupy the same space at the same point in time then is it an absolute must to predrill for screews (specifically plywood)?
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I don't always predrill in things like mdf, but I have had some splitting with plywood, so if it's in a delicate area, take the time and do it, especially when it's on an edge where a turn will blow out the side of a panel. MDF into 2x4, no problems with no pre-drill.
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Predrilling pilot holes is always a good idea
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Doesn't take long, either. Drill then screw. Just like angry sex.
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Pre-drill and countersink. It is the intended way to use wood screws and the joint created will be stronger.
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Doesn't take long, either. Drill then screw. Just like angry sex.
Ha!
Pre-drill and countersink. It is the intended way to use wood screws and the joint created will be stronger.
Agreed.
Edited to fix quote
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Doesn't take long, either. Drill then screw. Just like angry sex.
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
What everyone else said; predrill and countersink. I recommend coarse threaded drywall screws over wood screws for MDF though. Because MDF has no grain pattern it has little screw holding power. Using coarse threaded screws avoids this by having bigger "teeth" to bite into the MDF.
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I second that. Drywall screws in MDF rock. And they make that wonderful screaming banshee sound when you drive it in! Like Chad said, just like angry sex. lol
Eric.
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The banshee scream only comes when you don't warn the cab when you go to screw on the back door.
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The banshee scream only comes when you don't warn the cab when you go to screw on the back door.
For me, they make the screaming banshee sound when I drive it in fast and hard.
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That screaming banshee sound is gonna haunt you when you go too fast and snap the head offa one of those someday.
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That screaming banshee sound is gonna haunt you when you go too fast and snap the head offa one of those someday.
Then I'd be the one making the screaming banshee sound... :cry:
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This may seem downright silly, but you should countersink both boards you wish to join.
Screws remove a small amount of material, and if you countersink the bottom board the extra material fills the countersink hole instead of forcing itself in between the boards, making a slight gap.
Though it really only needed for fine work, something like an arcade machine wont matter much.
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I've seen a lot of pro woodworkers recommend this, but honestly in use, I've never had to countersink both joining surfaces. I've never had a gap between anything I've put together out of MDF, plywood or anything. I think it's an urban myth of woodworking, just like it being said that if you wipe the joining edge of oily exotic woods with a solvent it removes the oil and makes for a stronger joint, when it really doesn't.
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I would definitely countersink, and drill pilot holes. I think the pilot holes I'm drilling should be even larger than they are, as the MDF is splitting in a couple of places, but I don't want the pilot holes to be TOO large so that the screws have nothing left to grab hold of.
Other posters are right, too. It's pretty quick and worth the effort.
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If the MDF is splitting, definitely try the next size up in drill bits for predrilling. If you're using drywall screws (really there's no reason not to if screwing into MDF) make sure to use the coarse threaded type. The threads have bigger "teeth" that bite into the MDF deeper. You won't have to worry about the screws having nothing to grab onto. I use this type almost exclusively and have not had a single board come loose. They screw in very tightly, but not enough so to split the MDF.
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Honestly, for MDF, I don't use screws at all. I use a good quality wood glue and air nails with blocking from the inside as needed.
MDF is really just not made to do butt joints with screws because of it's porous nature.. You can put screws all day long into the finished side of MDF with no ill effects, but going into the cut edge will yield splitting and usually a poor/fragile joint. Wood glue and a 1.5 inch air brad will do the trick and be significantly stronger over time than screws. There's a reason cabinet builders of the 80's did it that way too :)
And for the original topic of countersinking, I always do no matter what.. it's just good practice and you avoid that one time you don't and you split the board. Dewalt makes a nice and cheap predrill/countersink/screw set that i've used for years.. makes it an automatic motion.
/b
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Gotta have a fairly pricey setup for air brads, though.
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Pricy? 200 bucks gets you a compressor and a gun at home depot. You can do much better than that at pawn shops and odds are good you have a friend that has one already :)
If you use the excuse of what a tool costs to justify not using the appropriate method then don't be surprised at the result!
/b
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$200 is pricey for those that do not work with wood regularly.
Especially when you can get mostly the same results, manually, with far more versatile and less expensive tools.
Not saying brad nailers aren't good and a strong way to do it... but if you're only building a couple of things, they're probably too pricey.
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If you already own a compressor, you can pick up a decent brad nailer or stapler at Harbor Freight for as low as $16 on sale. Do some research first on the bt3central or woodnet as some models are better than others. (Get the 2" model, not the 1 1/4".)
Your not gonna go into furniture manufacturing with these nailers, but I have been using one for 2 years without a single jam... for the price of 4 McNasty value meals.
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I notice b&d now has an 18 volt cordless brad nailer. Those might be nice, anybody own one?
I am a big fan of cordless tools. Not specifically a b&d fan but cordless tools in general get me acting like a kid in a candy store.
But I do like the orange color of b&d tools, but I guess its not a good idea to buy power tools based solely on how cool they look.
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I notice b&d now has an 18 volt cordless brad nailer. Those might be nice, anybody own one?
I am a big fan of cordless tools. Not specifically a b&d fan but cordless tools in general get me acting like a kid in a candy store.
But I do like the orange color of b&d tools, but I guess its not a good idea to buy power tools based solely on how cool they look.
I picked up a craftsman 19.2v version before I had a decent compressor... it's garbage. It'll leave a 1" 18ga brad about 1/4" proud of the surface, even in plywood. Unless you get one for pennies, I don't think it's worth it. All it'll do is keep you from bashing your fingers when starting nails, and a pair of pliers can do that, too :)
Similar experiences on another forum:
http://tinyurl.com/enev5
In between the 19.2 cordless and the decent compressor I've used an el-cheapo 1.75gal husky portable dealy to fire an 18ga nailer and 23ga pin nailer with no problems whatsoever, besides being very noisy:
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100070438
So coupled with a cheap nailer, that's only $120 or so (not that $120 is something to sneeze at, but it's not that bad) and it will fill your tires, power an airbrush, air gun (I've probably spent $80+ on cans of compressed air in my life time), or inflate a boat or air mattress. Plus nailers are fun... Until you put an eye out, or pop your boat or air mattress, I suppose.
So yeah, air is not for everyone... but it can serve other purposes at least.
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I am a big fan of cordless tools. Not specifically a b&d fan but cordless tools in general get me acting like a kid in a candy store.
I'm just the opposite. I find them annoying. I want power without a bowling ball sticking out the side.
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For speed, I'd look into getting a quick-release setup. You can get drill bits with the built in counter-sink part on them that have a quick release base. Then you just pop it out and pop in the driver bit with no chucking or anything.
Of course there's some new drill out now where the front end like rotates around so you don't have to switch anything. Really funky looking but I've never used one. Just saw it on TV.
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That drill is a "made-for-TV" gimmick tool. It very well may work, but from the looks of it, it's NOT made for any serious work.
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It really is crap. It takes the same amount of time to change a bit if your drill has a keyless chuck.
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Both of my hand drills have keyless chucks which are great.
To speed the predrill/countersink/screw operations, I have an older version of this:
http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/accessory_category_detail.asp?categoryID=581
It works very well pre-drilling and countersinking, then pull the collar and flip the bit to drive the screws.
I have used and abused mine for many years with no problems.
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Both of my hand drills have keyless chucks which are great.
To speed the predrill/countersink/screw operations, I have an older version of this:
http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/accessory_category_detail.asp?categoryID=581
It works very well pre-drilling and countersinking, then pull the collar and flip the bit to drive the screws.
I have used and abused mine for many years with no problems.
I recently got one of those also in a pack of bits that I bought. I looked at it kind of funny for a few days then decided to try it.......
I dont know how I lived with out it! That thing is great.
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I have the Husky compressor and the Harbor Freight Brad Nail / Staple gun and it has worked flawlessly for me. I generally use the Brad Nails to hold everything together, then predrill, countersink, and use the dry wall screws for extra strength in areas where it looks like it might be needed. I am pretty new to the whole wood wooking world but so far so good. As far as speed to get it all done, I got 2 19.2 volt cordless drills from Harbor Freight for $16 each, use a bit it one that drills and countersinks and the other for screwing in the screws. Pretty quick.
Zeosstud