The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls

Main => Consoles => Topic started by: mo1e on October 10, 2005, 05:44:33 pm

Title: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 10, 2005, 05:44:33 pm
hey all i knew i had a question but i forgot to ask until i looked at my dc controller and remembered. Its about the triggers when i took my control apart i noticed that there seems to be a magnet on the trigger that gets closer to a black chip thing on the other side. Now my theory is that when the magnet gets closer it pulls and that black chip can sense it there for the harder the trigger is pulled the greater the effect is this correct? Also how would i then hack the trigger buttons?

Thanks in advance carl
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: elvis on October 11, 2005, 02:25:12 am
DreamCast pads use a Hall Effect joystick for the analogue controls:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect

The beauty is that the voltage is the greatest when the buttons are pressed all the way in.  Hacking these are therefor VERY simple, as you can just remove the magnets and treat the shoulder buttons as digital devices (a closed digital circuit being the same as a full depression of the shoulder button).

Simple as that. :)
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 11, 2005, 03:03:10 am
yes thats what i thought to do because after all i have never played an arcade game where pressure to the buttons is the key to win
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 11, 2005, 04:02:49 am
but how would that be done to make it digital theres no pad to connect the wires?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 11, 2005, 05:24:54 am
Here you go!  ;)  (click on the link to make the picture bigger)

Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 11, 2005, 06:10:59 am
ok so i see all the red x,s are where i should solder the wires from my buttons and joysticks
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 11, 2005, 06:35:24 am
ok so i see all the red x,s are where i should solder the wires from my buttons and joysticks

That is correct.  I hope this has cleared matters up for you.  :)
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: dennis808 on October 11, 2005, 06:45:39 am
yes sir!  For the shoulderbuttons the upper left part of the chip needs to be soldered, be sure you don't solder any other contacts and you'll have digital shoulderbuttons.

I used an exacto knife to scrape some of the black goop off all the regular connection points so that the underlying copper was visible. The solder won't hold onto the black stuff unless you scrape it first.

here's a blurry close-up of how mine came out:
(http://dennis808.herejezus.nl/arcade/shoulderhack.jpg)
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 11, 2005, 07:04:18 am
Quote
I used an exacto knife to scrape some of the black goop off all the regular connection points so that the underlying copper was visible. The solder won't hold onto the black stuff unless you scrape it first.

Be careful that you don't cut through any of the traces...  I like to use a dremel tool (at medium/low speed) with the wire brush to remove the black coating.
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 11, 2005, 05:31:46 pm
got my cp artwork delivered today :) and i have a sheet of mdf. My dc controlls are uncased and ready to be attempted to be hacked all i need now is the wire kit and my buttons/joysticks to arrive :D
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: Minwah on October 12, 2005, 06:29:22 am
Be careful when soldering next to the little chips for the triggers.  One of mine came off when I did it  ::)  Seems to still work tho...
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mmmPeanutButter on October 13, 2005, 11:28:48 am
Here you go!  ;)  (click on the link to make the picture bigger)



I was wondering this exact same thing...

Amazing photo HarumaN.  I guess that's why they call you the Supreme Solder King!

This is exactly what I needed.


Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 13, 2005, 01:19:32 pm
ok my pads are down to the circuits and my wires and buttons arrived today so tomorrow i can go up town buy a solder kit and be on my way :) hopefully
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 13, 2005, 04:21:25 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 14, 2005, 01:55:02 am
got work to go  to then will give it ago after  i mite need u haruman  ;D
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 14, 2005, 05:07:58 am
I'll be here...  :P
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 15, 2005, 05:01:14 am
hi im sorry about the poor quality of pictures here i hope you can see them. My wires turned up yesterday im sure i recieved all i need but all i got was one thick wire that contained 4 wires like this
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1742/dsci00427rp.th.jpg) (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsci00427rp.jpg)
(there are 4 wires the other thing is fabric)

each of the four wires was actually 2 wires twisted like this
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6765/dsci00430hu.th.jpg) (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsci00430hu.jpg)
do i seperate them to make 8 wires?

in total for the up, down, left, right, a, b, and other buttons etc i will need 11 wires i think.
I also recieved a bundle of thin wire like this
(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1518/dsci00444bd.th.jpg) (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsci00444bd.jpg)
 and some crimps is the thin wire the grounding wire?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: Goz on October 15, 2005, 05:22:14 am
Good thing you put descriptions. I had no idea what they were actually pictures of.
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 15, 2005, 05:26:09 am
yer thats what i meant about the visibility the cameras gone c*ap all of a sudden. can you help?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: Goz on October 15, 2005, 07:21:11 am
hoestly I cannot make out anyting in the pics. By you r description you bought twisted pair wire. There is no problem with using the stuff, but yeah it is two wires interlooping / twisting. So one braide is two wires or you have a total of 8 wires.

You need 12 wires

Joy
+++
1 - right
2 - up
3 - down
4 - left
5 - start
6 - ground

Buttons (will also use ground)
+++++
7 - X
8 - A
9 - Z
10 - Y
11 - C
12 - B

Of course doesnt matter what order. I simply used the numbers so you wouldn't have to count.

hope this helps,

-Goz
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 15, 2005, 07:22:03 am
umm, where did you buy those wires from? ?

And yes you will 11 wires for buttons and directions.  You will need one long wire with daisy chained female disconnects for your common ground.

Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 15, 2005, 07:27:27 am
from grumby on ebay are these wires correct?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: Goz on October 15, 2005, 07:31:59 am
Looks like he bought this  Kit  (http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Player-Arcade-Wiring-Kit-Compatible-With-MAME-TM_W0QQitemZ6216627120QQcategoryZ13718QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) which is CAT 5 cable with the ends cut and the inulating jacket in tact.

Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 15, 2005, 07:36:46 am
from grumby on ebay are these wires correct?

They are correct.  I was just curious as to where you got them.  That's a pretty good deal, IMO.  :)
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 15, 2005, 07:38:55 am
ok so is this correct the daisy chained ground wire goes to the red circle and the button wires go to the blue circle

(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5593/smicroswitchcloseupwired1vo.th.jpg) (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smicroswitchcloseupwired1vo.jpg)
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 15, 2005, 07:48:56 am
or vice versa?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: Goz on October 15, 2005, 07:57:24 am
Typically the ground goes to the common (red in your picture)
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 15, 2005, 08:02:59 am
ok so i use the thin wire to ground? and the 8 wires in the one sleeving wont be enough so i take it i use the 8 wires then cut another bit off and use 3 wires from this?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 15, 2005, 08:03:57 am
and yes thats the kit i bought :)
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 18, 2005, 12:54:14 pm
So how's the DC hacking going??
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 18, 2005, 01:10:54 pm
lmao not even given it a go yet i got my solder kit though im waiting for the wood for the cp
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 18, 2005, 01:40:48 pm
also why does there have to be a ground daisy chain? and should it be done like this
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1246/groundwire16go.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=groundwire16go.jpg)
or like this
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8131/groundwire29bm.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=groundwire29bm.jpg)

That mite sound dumb but im unsure about this
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 18, 2005, 01:51:06 pm
and also does the black goop neex scraping off the connections?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 18, 2005, 02:52:40 pm
ok i now officially take back my words ( anyone can solder cant they) i can solder but the solder never seems to stick to the dc connectors anyone help?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 18, 2005, 03:08:29 pm
Ok... 

First, did you scrape/sand the black stuff off of the contacts?

Second, are you using solder with a flux core?

Also, your ground needs to be like the first picture (daisy chain).  Creating a loop like in your second picture can and most likely will cause problems.
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 18, 2005, 03:12:09 pm
ok thanks for that and yes i did scrape off the goop and the solder is a no clean solder (doesnt neeed to be water washed afterwards)
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 18, 2005, 03:19:52 pm
ok thanks for that and yes i did scrape off the goop and the solder is a no clean solder (doesnt neeed to be water washed afterwards)

Does that mean the solder has no flux?  If so, you're gonna need some (either flux paste, or solder with a flux core).

I use solder with a flux core and I never have to clean the board when I'm done.
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 18, 2005, 03:27:07 pm
brb let me check all i know is at work some solders we have to clean the boards afterwards i will go check now k
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 18, 2005, 03:28:13 pm
yer its a no clean core solder 1.1% flux i can see the flux when the solder is melted
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 18, 2005, 04:04:49 pm
Hmm...  your solder should be sticking.  Do you see copper underneath of where you scraped the black off?  (Hopefully you didn't scrape the copper off as well.)

You may try wiping down the points where you wish to solder with rubbing alcohol.  This may help.
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 18, 2005, 04:06:15 pm
yep i definately see copper i hate to do this but howmuch are ur hacked pads?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: Grasshopper on October 18, 2005, 04:07:32 pm
Also, your ground needs to be like the first picture (daisy chain).  Creating a loop like in your second picture can and most likely will cause problems.

Creating a loop is pointless but it shouldn't do any harm.
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 18, 2005, 04:41:58 pm
also are the madcats ones easier to solder/hack?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 18, 2005, 04:48:54 pm
If you are in the U.S. my hacked pads are $30 for the standard version (this is for one pair, including shipping).  Canadians add $5.  Also, for an additional $5 I will install terminal strips on the hacked pads.

Madcatz are easier to hack, but also harder to find, so you will probably pay more for them.




...  I take Paypal.   :D
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 18, 2005, 04:55:08 pm
i live in uk lmao u name a price if i have it i will pay it and what do yoy mean by terminals?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 18, 2005, 07:56:20 pm
You've got PM...

and I mean this by terminals:

Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 21, 2005, 09:56:15 am
kool i am cutting out my cp wood now and button holes soon :) looking forward to recieveng your hacks
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 21, 2005, 01:04:32 pm
well i created my cp today without the wiring and im happy to say it looks pretty nice :) heres some pics

(http://img419.imageshack.us/img419/1165/dsci00438bv.th.jpg) (http://img419.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsci00438bv.jpg)

hmmmmmmmmmmm what could this be for?

(http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/7620/dsci00447dy.th.jpg) (http://img434.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsci00447dy.jpg)
with cp artwork added and holes marked out for cutting


with buttons added but no joysticks as of yet ( i need some screws)

(http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/1623/dsci00454lc.th.jpg) (http://img447.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsci00454lc.jpg)

and a close up of cp with buttons
(http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/9546/dsci00461iy.th.jpg) (http://img447.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsci00461iy.jpg)

So what do you guys think is this ok?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: Goz on October 21, 2005, 01:27:57 pm
Assuming your camera or your photography skills are like mine it looks good (pictures dull and fuzzy).
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 21, 2005, 06:13:57 pm
Does look good...  :)
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 23, 2005, 01:23:27 am
ok thanks i have the screws for my joysticks now  ;D
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 23, 2005, 05:38:30 pm
many may ask why not mario and luigi or mario and bowser and the simple answer is at the time i couldnt fine any images if either luigi or bowser big enough
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 23, 2005, 05:50:50 pm
That's cool...  Mario and Yoshi work well together.   ;D
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 24, 2005, 01:05:28 pm
is there any specific way that the ground wire has to go? e.g. down, left, up, right, a, b, x, y?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 24, 2005, 01:41:01 pm
nope...  anyway is fine. 
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 24, 2005, 01:43:45 pm
good :)
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 30, 2005, 12:58:18 pm
hi i have a problem i cant put 2 wires through one hole to link the 2 buttons togeather for ground im using the top (common hole) from this pic
(http://arcadecontrols.com/images/microswitch_closeup_wired.jpg)is this correct?
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 30, 2005, 02:39:05 pm
nevermind i have done it now the player 1 is completely wired up and it works  ;D
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: HaRuMaN on October 31, 2005, 05:20:07 am
nevermind i have done it now the player 1 is completely wired up and it works  ;D

What you need are some female .187 quick disconnects on the ends of your wires.   :D
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: mo1e on October 31, 2005, 05:34:24 pm
what? i have just soldered it lol it seems to work
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: Franco on October 31, 2005, 05:43:39 pm
Yeah it should work fine. Its just that quick disconnects are handier as regards to maintenance or upgrades etc.
Title: Re: dc control hack??? (triggers not working)
Post by: bill55 on November 07, 2005, 08:06:18 am
I am having some probs with my DC controls.

For some reason I cannot get my triggers to work correctly. I have all my buttons running into an IPAC4 (I use this cab for the DC as well as a MAME PC). I took my wires from the hacked DC pad and have those connected to the wires from the buttons at the IPAC. (It was easier to do it this way since the IPAC has screw terminals and I didn't want to redo all my quick disconnects)

Everything works fine except for the triggers. If I power the MAME PC on so the IPAC gets power, then the triggers work. I cannot make any sense of it since the wires from the DC pad are twisted with my button wires. The IPAC should really be doing nothing other than holding the wires together.

Do the triggers need power or something? I have my pads wired exactly like the pic from page 1 of this thread (dc.gif).

PLEASE HELP!!!!!

Thanks!
Bill
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: Minwah on November 07, 2005, 10:26:08 am
Bill I said try a search here not post the exact same question: http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=54294&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

You probably didn't like my answer since it means you need to rewire stuff but trust me you really need to unless you want to damage something.  DC controller ports don't take much to blow you know...
Title: Re: dc control hack???
Post by: bill55 on November 07, 2005, 12:50:58 pm
Actually, I didn't see your other reply til just now. I replied here just after I made the other post before you replied. I thought posting on 2 different sites might help me get an answer. Not that I didn't like your answer. I just didn't see it.  :-)

I do appreciate the help. (I replied on that thread)

Bill