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Main => Everything Else => Topic started by: SirPeale on April 20, 2005, 08:42:40 pm
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Wife and I decided to become vegetarians.
From our site: http://www.pealefamily.net/index.php?m=200504#78
warning: do NOT click on the links, unless you have a strong stomach.
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A carrot is a living creature, and you don't see anything wrong with chewing one of them up. It's worse for the carrot, because the carrot is still ALIVE as you chew it. The cow I'm chewing on took a hammer to the head and died weeks, maybe months before it became my Big Mac.
Poor, Mr. Carrot needs to be chewed up and digested alive just to feed some sadist who gets off on the misery of lower life forms.
Shame on you Peale.
Free the carrots!!!
Return to the carnivorous side before it's too late!
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I love my veg's. but I still like my meat.
love to hunt also. must vegetarians I know are unhealthy.
like Mexican food?
wife has a toastoda dish that is vegetarian. one of my favorite dishes.
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must vegetarians I know are unhealthy.
Unhealthy how?
like Mexican food?
wife has a toastoda dish that is vegetarian. one of my favorite dishes.
Love it, but the wife is currently anti-Mexican food. Heartburn due to pregnancy, you know.
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Nothing like a thick juicy steak.
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JESUS! I looked at one of the videos and it's just gross. They're like beating the animals with a bat! Disgusting. Not only do they kill it, but to abuse it first? Come on.
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:o
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JESUS! I looked at one of the videos and it's just gross. They're like beating the f****n animals with a <auto-censored> bat! Disgusting. Not only do they kill it, but to abuse the <auto-censored> out of it first? Come on.
1) Language! :police:
2) Yeah, that's pretty brutal. But just 'cuz some guy gets his rocks off beatin' up coons for their skins isn't gonna stop me from eating meat. Sorry.
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No, I still eat meat, but I dont agree with beating the animals first. Its kinda sad...until you taste that nice juicy steak.
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Nothing personal, I am sure you are a nice guy and all but I usually dislike hard core or even semi hard core PETA people. They find a video or 2 or 3 and they act like that is how ALL of them are killed.
One question I would like to ask is, What other purpose does a cow have? I mean, Jesus fed the people fish and bread. Why do you think we have teeth like we do?
I don't mind people who are vegetarians, I just don't like it when they try to tell other people to be also. I am not saying you are trying to tell us to join you but just in general when it happens.
Again, nothing personal. Good for you. I have heard it is healthy. I myself will keep on eating animals. That's all I am trying to say.
J_K_M_A_N
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Haven't you seen what that racoon did to Elf? That's just wrong! All he wanted was a hug and that coon was all like 'I'm gonna bite your head off' and stuff. (I know, just a movie...)
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I like steak. It tastes good.
That said, I don't think I'm going to eat it anymore. I'm certainly not going to convince anyone that it's wrong; that is something you have to work out for yourselves.
What is a cow for? Cows as they are right now actually never existed before about 100 years ago. Selective breeding has produced the animals that you see today.
I think that if the animals can be raised and killed humanely, then so be it. It's the inhumane conditions, followed by a torturous death that I have a problem with.
Besides...animals that have been taken care of taste better.
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must vegetarians I know are unhealthy.
Unhealthy how?
I can't answer for daywane, but I know a number of "unhealthy" vegetarians.
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I can't answer for daywane, but I know a number of "unhealthy" vegetarians. They're overweight and/or severely "not fit". One has sky high cholesterol levels. I'm not around so many vegetarians at this point in my life, but I'd say about 75% of the vegetarians I've worked with/been around at any given point are less 'healthy' than 50% of the non-vegetarians I've been around at that same point.
I suppose it depends on what you're eating. You can still eat unhealthy foods and be a vegetarian.
For example: high fructose corn syrup (HFCS). For the longest time I thought it was just like the corn syrup you buy at the market. Not so (http://www.westonaprice.org/motherlinda/cornsyrup.html). Nasty, nasty stuff.
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I offer you one thing...the lyrics to one of my favorite songs...
She's not eatin' bacon, not eatin' sausage
and she won't eat eggs,
Not eatin' chicken, not eatin' turkey,
she won't have a steak,
But I just can't help feelin' sorry
for this poor little lettuce head
You know, I can't stop cryin'
'Cause I know this broccoli's dead
Vegetarian, I'm not a vegetarian
Vegetarian...she's a
Poor little cow, little sheep
Little fish how can I sleep?
When carrots are bleedin'
Plants are screamin' and tomatoes cry
You say it's not so bad
They're only vegetables, that's what you said
Maybe I'm a murderer, but I'm hungry
And they're better off dead
Save a plant, eat a cow
I want beef, I want it now!
I'm gonna eat it cause it's red!
I'm gonna eat it cause it's dead!
maybe I should eat it raw
Let the blood run down my jaw
I'd eat people if it was legal
I'd eat people if it was legal!
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you go for it peale! id be a vegetarian if i wasnt so lazy! every time i pass a cattle truck i almost want to become one but the dark side becons! historically people didnt eat much meat anyway, so being a vegetarian is only a small step from that. now being a VEGAN would kill me, thats for sure!
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Most vegetarians I have known have been 17-22 year old girls who were mostly candy and donut vegetarians. Not eating meat, but not really eating vegetables either. Most of them grow out of that phase, or give it up after they start gaining weight.
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I think that if the animals can be raised and killed humanely, then so be it. It's the inhumane conditions, followed by a torturous death that I have a problem with.
So this is about morality rather than diet? Kudos to you if you can pull it off, because that's a heck of a lot of things in modern life you are giving up. :o
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You know those big teeth at the back of our mouths??
This says to me that meat is an important part of out diets.
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Ive been a vegitarian since I was 4 yrs old and I'm quite healthy. You can eat unhealthy foods wether your a veggie or a meat eater. Thats why theres fat vgetarians as well as meat people. And theres veggie stuff with the exact proteins as meat like beans have about the same as a steak. Plus you can buy veggie stuff now that tastes like meat. As far as humans being "designed to eat meat" We have a longer digestive system so we are better able to get the nutrients from our foods as opposed to the shorter tract that carnivores have to enable them to pass the meat through their body before it becomes rancid (intestinal cancer). The enzymes in our saliva that start breaking down the food in our mouths and the early part of our digestive tract are of a low acidity level in a carnivore the acid level is about 20 times higher. Not saying Become A Vegitarian!! just defending Peales desision to do so.
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This speaks volumes about the mindset of vegetarians, not eating meat because the food was alive is just silly IMO, as some fast food places say "you gotta eat".
No harm.... :angel:
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This is why it's important to be clear which kind of vegetarian someone is before deciding to go after them:
(a) fashion/rebel vegetarians; 8)
(b) dietary vegetarians; :P
(c) moral vegetarians. :angel:
I have heard a fair number of reliable reports that reducing your meat intake from "Depopulator", to about a palm-sized piece of steak ~3-4 times a weak can do wonders for your statistics. I'm not sure I'm convinced by the claims of 'rotting' meat, particularly considering the fact that most of us don't have a functioning appendix (and hence can't process plant matter correctly). However I'm certainly willing to agree that most westerners consume more meat than they should. ;D
But I respect moral vegetarianism. Life is death, sure, but that doesn't mean we have to go out of our way to add to it all. Considering the massive amount of dead animal in all of the other walks of life though, it's also the hardest kind of vegetarian to be. I certainly like my silk shirts, photographs and toothpaste. :-\
Good luck.
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There are two roads here going to different places.
1) There is the decision to not eat meat for health reasons.
2) There is a decision to not eat meat for moral reasons.
I for one have more respect for the 2nd although I don't care quite enough to have changed my own eating habits. But, I am sure there are options you could choose that would soften the moral conflicts.
Animals raised by farmers who practice good husbandry methods at least should give you the illusion that the animal is reasonably happy until the last 20 seconds of its life. Tuna caught in nets that are dolphin safe, eggs from only free range chickens, lobsters that are chilled before being boiled, these are all things you can choose to discover your own level of comfort.
As a consumer you have the right to make enquiries into the product you are purchasing if unsure.
Food is an enjoyable part of life, to enjoy the taste of something but to choose against its consumption seems peculiar.
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For the record i wasnt "going after anyone" just my thoughts out loud.
Whatever reason people dont eat meat is there business.
Goodluck, enjoy.
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Hmmm. never meet a fat vegetarian. all the ones I know are very skinny and sick all the time.
I will NOT eat veal after I saw how it is treated, ( calf raised in a small small small cell. (no room to move)
we have large farms all around me. the cows are treated very well
most are for milk.
I have never seen any animal beat to death.
worst I seen was from me. I shot a deer with a black powder bullet.
deer would not go with out a heck of a fight. last bullet did not go off. I had to cut its throat. Since then I have been very carfull to get the deer with 1 shot.
deer meat is about 1/3 to 1/2 of our meat intake here in my house.
I have tried very hard to teach my girls how to live off the land.
we grow a large garden every year. and fish most of the summer. I allways get at least 4 deer each year.
I was afraid they would freak out the first time I butchered one in front of them but they took it very well and thought of it as a learning experience.
My girls know I have a soft side. I cut a beak off a baby bird that fell out of a tree and I hit it with a mower. It really touched me. still tears well up about it.
for me its eat what you kill.
kill for sport. your no friend of mine.
I liked to travel when younger. I tried what the natives eat
dog ( I think. Mexico. not sure what it was. DARN GOOD though)
cricket, ants,. Texas
lizard. AZ and Philippines
monkey. Philippines
horse. AZ
I have been told I ate bat also. ( not sure if that was true)
Snake. TX and AZ (good stuff , and no it don't taste like chicken)
chicken taste like chicken.
oohhh frog legs .and crawdads. man that's good eaten 8)
I do draw the line on bloot. nope no way no how
also fear factor really does make me toss my cookies. now that is sick
if how meat is treated bothers you try hunting your own. very rewording.
never know with the way times are you might need to know whow to get along on your own wits
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I love meat. I don't like kfc however. It gave me man tits. :(
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My wife is a vegetarian, she's probably the healthiest person I've ever known and she is not in any way overwieght. Of course she eats healthy foods and gets plenty of exercise. She, like Peale, became a vegetarian on moral principles.
I'm not a vegetarian, but due to the fact that I live with one, I eat a lot less meat than most people do. I'd like to become one, also on moral grounds, but I lack the willpower that my better half has.
Kudos to you Peale, I hope you are able to stick with it.
-S
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So this is about morality rather than diet? Kudos to you if you can pull it off, because that's a heck of a lot of things in modern life you are giving up. :o
It started with diet, and that has been supplimented with morality. I mean, check out this:
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/GetVideo.asp?video=meet_your_meat
The usual warning about squeamishness applies.
So I suppose it's both.
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You know those big teeth at the back of our mouths??
This says to me that meat is an important part of out diets.
Really? I would have thought it was the inscisors for tearing. Molars are there for grinding.
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Really? I would have thought it was the inscisors for tearing. Molars are there for grinding.
correct, front teeth are for "snipping grasslike materials"
inscisors are for "tearing meat", and your molars are for grinding both.
If you
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i find this hillarious, coming from the guy telling us how using road cones to chop off chickens heads in the backyard is the best way of doing it
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i find this hillarious, coming from the guy telling us how using road cones to chop off chickens heads in the backyard is the best way of doing it
Yeah, I don't want to do that anymore.
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how do I get me one of those one other things? they sound interesting.
Allright everyone, drink your Kool-Aid. Follow Peale.
Just kidding about that hippy site thing. ;)
The starter kit? There's a link right there, in fact 'vegetarian starter kit' is a link.
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If you
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I feel like a steak tonight...
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Go for the vegetarian, leave the PETA people behind. Political groups like PETA give crazy a bad name.
Art
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Go for the vegetarian, leave the PETA people behind. Political groups like PETA give crazy a bad name.
It's not all bad. You've got your radicals in any group. I believe in a lot of their ideals, but can leave the crazies behind.
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I offer you one thing...the lyrics to one of my favorite songs...
I'd eat people if it was legal!
Vegetarians taste better, but you need to cook them longer for health reasons.
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lol this was funny...........
First off English is not my wifes native language......
We were in the car a few weeks ago and we started talking about the Terry Shaivo ordeal......
Well she looked at me and said "If I ever become a vegetarian I don't want to live"
I just started laughing at her then she realized what she said........
:laugh:
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I am at least as concerned with the environmental impact of consuming meat as the inhumane conditions the animals are subjected to. Grazing reeks havoc on land and the big cattle and pig farms literally create mountains of steaming feces with no good way to dispose of it.
As far as whether we were "meant" to eat meat or not seems like a stupid way to decide. We were clearly not meant to wear shoes, but I'm not going to walk around the city without shoes. I think one should consume as little animal product as possible, but I define possible pretty losely. For example, I could not give up cheese. It's too tasty. So that's just not possible. But I eat very little meat - almost never beef.
This is mostly due to health choices and preferences. Ethics play a role, but a person who is a hardcore vegetarian for moral reasons is necessarily a hypocrit because that person is still wearing leather shoes and drinking milk and eating eggs and cheese, etc. -- all of which involve the slaughering and/or horrible living conditions for animals that apply to the creatures that go into our tummies.
If you're going to go hardcore ethical you gotta go vegan.
Anyway, anyone not eating meats should really read up on combinations of vegetables that will give you complete proteins. Animal products are almost the only single food sources that deliver complete proteins (there are a couple of beans that will, I think). Different veggies have different partial protiens that can be combined to make complete ones. But you need to eat the foods together, or within a short time-frame, in order for your body to break them down and combine the partial protiens. If you do this you will get absolutely everything good, nutrition-wise, that meat has to offer, without all the bad stuff. If you don't, your health will likely suffer.
Oh yeah....and don't use vegetable-based butter substitute, like margarine. Hydrogenated vegetable oils are filled with little assassins called trans fatty acids that are WAY worse than anything in butter. Lots of products contain it. Anything creamy that has no animal products, such as peanut butter (get the stuff with the oil on top that has to be mixed in -- it tastes much better anyway).
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I hate PETA. I don't care if some of the things they say has truth. The fact that so much of what they officially do and say is shady or truth with a huge dose of spin makes them impossible to trust. They are one of those sources that any time they say something you think to yourself, "Wow....I wonder if that's really true."
Can you imagine if that was your reaction when you were watching CNN or reading the LA Times? "Wow.....the Pope died? I wonder if that's really true."
There aren't just extremists within PETA any more than there are extremists in the KKK; PETA is an extremist organization. The organization officially carries out campains such as making happy meal-style action figures of Ronald McDonald and friends, covered in blood, stabbing knives into cows and chickens and then PETA volunteers stand outside resaurants handing them to children as they walk out with their parents.
And they officially say retarded things, such as that the milk you buy in the store is 90% puss and only 10% milk. It's an outright lie.
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I could not give up cheese. It's too tasty. So that's just not possible. But I eat very little meat - almost never beef.
This describes me pretty well. I eat almost no red meat. Some chicken, turkey & fish, and quite a lot of cheese.
If you're going to go hardcore ethical you gotta go vegan.
Thanks for bringing this up. My wife is in fact vegan and not vegetarian. She does not buy leather or eat any dairy. The only animal product that she will eat at all is eggs that we buy directly from the farm, and they are free-range chickens. They taste a lot better than the ones you can get at the grocery store anyway.
-S
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The organization officially carries out campains such as making happy meal-style action figures of Ronald McDonald and friends, covered in blood, stabbing knives into cows and chickens and then PETA volunteers stand outside resaurants handing them to children as they walk out with their parents.
I Fear for the saftey of anyone who hands something like that to one of my kids.
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I am at least as concerned with the environmental impact of consuming meat as the inhumane conditions the animals are subjected to. Grazing reeks havoc on land and the big cattle and pig farms literally create mountains of steaming feces with no good way to dispose of it.
Indeed. And the amount of water necessary. And the amount of land it takes to raise meat vs the same amout per pound of vegetation.
This is mostly due to health choices and preferences. Ethics play a role, but a person who is a hardcore vegetarian for moral reasons is necessarily a hypocrit because that person is still wearing leather shoes and drinking milk and eating eggs and cheese, etc. -- all of which involve the slaughering and/or horrible living conditions for animals that apply to the creatures that go into our tummies.
I still have my leather items, but I've owned them for years. I wouldn't toss them now, it wouldn't make any sense. I wouldn't buy any *new* leather items, but wouldn't have a problem with something from a thrift shop, or something I found. About a year ago I found a leather overcoat that was thrown away. Perfect condition. I don't feel bad about it because it doesn't contribute directly to the leather industry.
Anyway, anyone not eating meats should really read up on combinations of vegetables that will give you complete proteins. Animal products are almost the only single food sources that deliver complete proteins (there are a couple of beans that will, I think). Different veggies have different partial protiens that can be combined to make complete ones. But you need to eat the foods together, or within a short time-frame, in order for your body to break them down and combine the partial protiens. If you do this you will get absolutely everything good, nutrition-wise, that meat has to offer, without all the bad stuff. If you don't, your health will likely suffer.
According to what I've read on the matter, this is only partially true. Soy has all the essential amino acids. But there are plenty of other veggies that do the same. Broccoli, mushrooms (!), whole wheat, oatmeal, peanuts, peas, or nuts are good for it. And the fact is most Americans actually suffer from too much protein, not too little.
Animal protein is actually more difficult for your body, because first it has to break it down into the amino acids, then convert that to the proteins your body requires.
Oh yeah....and don't use vegetable-based butter substitute, like margarine. Hydrogenated vegetable oils are filled with little assassins called trans fatty acids that are WAY worse than anything in butter. Lots of products contain it. Anything creamy that has no animal products, such as peanut butter (get the stuff with the oil on top that has to be mixed in -- it tastes much better anyway).
Still eating butter - for now, anyway (like the cheese) but I can see myself cutting out the dairy in my diet fairly soon.
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And they officially say retarded things, such as that the milk you buy in the store is 90% puss and only 10% milk. It's an outright lie.
I haven't seen *those* figures, but the somatic cell content of milk is quite alarming. Not only that, but how they treat the cows that give the milk is disgusting. Repeated impregnations over a five year span, then when they can't get pregnant any more, or their production wanes, off to the slaughterhouse. Yeah, that's a life I want to live.
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Thanks for bringing this up. My wife is in fact vegan and not vegetarian. She does not buy leather or eat any dairy. The only animal product that she will eat at all is eggs that we buy directly from the farm, and they are free-range chickens. They taste a lot better than the ones you can get at the grocery store anyway.
I think I could give up eggs, but honey is another story. I love honey. I don't get why eating that is such a bad thing. Bees make too much for them to ever use it all.
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I love the word "bees".
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How about Bees knees?
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but the somatic cell content of milk is quite alarming.
See, and that's the problem with PETA. "Somatic cells" and "Pus" are not synonymous. White blood cells in and off themselves do not constitute pus. PETA knows this and deliberately misrepresent the facts to further their cause. Their goal is to get people to quit using animal products. They don't care WHY people quit using them, so long as they do. If they have to tell a few somatic lies, so be it.
And I'm not entirely sure that the somatic cell content is actually alarming. Somatic cells are perfectly normal in all milk, including human breast milk. Apparently the limit is 750 million cells per liter and the average seems to be about 350-400 million but that doesn't mean much to me as I don't know what actual percentage of the milk that is and I can't find anything that tells me. At any rate, PETA knows full-well that somatic cells are not pus. There also seems to be no evidence that somatic cells are harmful.
I view it like this. Many of the things Al Qaeda hates about America are absolutely true and a person would be a fool to think any differently. But I can't endorse Al Qaeda and the tactics they use simply because they "have a point".
About the only thing I like about PETA is their frequent association with naked supermodels.
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Well if your going for the moral stand....bees arent tortured into producing honey
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Maybe not in your hives.....
....mwahahaHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
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Oh, and by the way Peale, good luck. I'd wager that you will be the healthier for it. Not to mention that the environment and the animals will benefit from the decreased demand.
And on the ethical front, I wouldn't worry. I had this brilliant idea one day and I'm sure I'm not the only person who has thought of it. A few years ago I was reading about these teenagers who fell in a geyser or boiling mud pit or something in Yellowstone National Park. Well some died and the ones who lived had third degree burns over like 95% of their bodies. They were life-flighted to a hospital and stabilized and had temporary skin grafts done until samples of their own skin could be flown somewhere that specialized in growing living tissue like Johns Hopkins or something after which they would get skin grafts with the right stuff all over their bodies.
It got me thinking. This is probably super expensive and difficult to do right now, but just like everything else it will eventually be inexpensive and have a very high success rate as technology gets better and economies of scales are introduced. If we can just grow human skin in a petri dish, why not cow hide, or a ribeye steak for that matter. I predict that in our lifetime you will be able to buy a genuine leather jacket that was never attached to a living being. You'll be able to eat cow liver that was never inside a cow. It would probably be safer too, cos there wouldn't be any of these pesky things like Mad Cow disease. I ought to patent the idea rather than posting it to public message boards, I suppose.
Of course this is just a stop-gap measure until we can build whatever we want atom-by-atom :)
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And I'm not entirely sure that the somatic cell content is actually alarming. Somatic cells are perfectly normal in all milk, including human breast milk. Apparently the limit is 750 million cells per liter and the average seems to be about 350-400 million but that doesn't mean much to me as I don't know what actual percentage of the milk that is and I can't find anything that tells me. At any rate, PETA knows full-well that somatic cells are not pus. There also seems to be no evidence that somatic cells are harmful.
Well, I can say this: those cells can produce a immune response, due to being foreign cellular matter. It can produce intestinal bleeding and violent reactions in severe cases. In my sons case, it wasn't that severe, but he had violent diarrhea and a runny nose until we removed milk from his diet. I know when I drink milk I don't feel well (though I can eat cheese okay, go figure).
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Well, carrots are foreign cellular matter aren't they?
At any rate, is your son simply lactose intolerant? If so it is the lactate, IIRC, rather than the white blood cells that would be causing that reaction.
I'm under the impression that, according to the FDA, ingesting somatic cells poses no risk whatsoever.
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he had violent diarrhea and a runny nose until we removed milk from his diet.
Before I added milk to my diet I had passive diarrhea.
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Well, carrots are foreign cellular matter aren't they?
Of course. But you're talking about animal white blood cells. Cells that are part of the immune system. Of a foreign body.
At any rate, is your son simply lactose intolerant? If so it is the lactate, IIRC, rather than the white blood cells that would be causing that reaction.
No, it was an allergic reaction. Children aren't lactose intolerant until a certain age. It's a component of breastmilk (and I'm fairly certain most animal milks). He didn't exhibit these symptoms until we weaned him at age 1 and gave him cows milk. At first we thought he was sick, due to his symptoms. Doctors were useless. "it's a bug, it'll pass" was their answer. Finally figured it out on my own. He tolerates it much better now, but still has issues.
I'm under the impression that, according to the FDA, ingesting somatic cells poses no risk whatsoever.
Yeah, I'm so trusting of the FDA. The FDA that allowed a product like sucralose on the market, and a host of other nasty things.
So go ahead and down a glass of moo juice. I'll pass.
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I am at least as concerned with the environmental impact of consuming meat as the inhumane conditions the animals are subjected to.
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fertilizer. best there is.
Problem is there is just *too* much of it. People have tried solutions like methane collection to generate power (which is actually very successful, but not anywhere in wide enough use), drying it and burning it for fuel, or just burning it in general (no one likes this option, it smells awful).
And believe it or not, faeces from factory animal farms are not ideal for fertilizer without processing it to a degree. It's for the same reason that using dog/cat faeces isn't: the inclusion of animal protein in the stool makes it unsuitable until it's broken down. How does animal protein get into cow/pig poop? Because they grind up their unfortunate friends and feed that resulting slurry to them.
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fertilizer. best there is.
If this were true, farmers would not have mountains of feces with nothing to do with it. Farmers cannot sell anywhere near enough fertilizer to make a dent in the problem. And the mountains of crap cause other serious issues, like the lovely scent it creates and the lovely things its runoff introduces to streams and groundwater, and therefore to wildlife and people who drink the water.
Here's an example of one, by the way. It's on fire (or was) (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6879097).
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I don't feel bad about it because it doesn't contribute directly to the leather industry.
Then why wear it at all? ??? Surely non-leather items are just as cheap in the thrift shop? I can think of several reasons why you shouldn't do this:
Economics: healthy 2nd hand markets tend to encourage the 1st hand market to continue.
Ethics: 'out of site, out of mind' principle.
Fashion: why make other people think *you* think leather products look good.
Mathematics: that "second hand" leather jacket you 'don't feel bad' about buying five years from now is probably a cow *today*.
I'm not saying you have to retro-actively release a cow into the wild for each cow you previously 'murdered', but surely you are drawing a line in the sand today? This is why moral vegetarianism is the hardest of the two to be. I could never spend all that time examining my toothpaste brand to make sure it doesn't use any animal products four or five steps back. :-\
And the shock factor of organisations like PETA tend to stem directly from the 'trade secret' attitude of too many businesses. Make transparency legally mandatory and you will get more mundane stories from CNN and less fantastic stories from PETA. ;D
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(http://maddox.xmission.com/bigpot6.jpg?)
hehe
but seriously, im not much of a meat eater myself.
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That Maddox guy is from Utah of all places.
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i almost want to become one but the dark side becons!
Dontcha mean "bacons"? ;D
Ethics play a role, but a person who is a hardcore vegetarian for moral reasons is necessarily a hypocrit because that person is still wearing leather shoes and drinking milk and eating eggs and cheese, etc.
You're assuming an awful lot about someone and stating that they HAVE TO be a hypocrite based on something that may or may not be true. Are all shoes leather? Are they still ingesting milk/eggs/cheese? Maybe other examples would work better, but those are extremely poor ones and are simply unfounded and wildly speculative.
That Maddox guy is from Utah of all places.
I didn't know that! I haven't read much of his stuff, but I kinda dig the folks he links with....good humor....unless you hate their humor, then they're just jerks :D
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I feel like a steak tonight...
thats funny- you dont LOOK like a steak!!
BOOM!! BOOM!!
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Then why wear it at all? ??? Surely non-leather items are just as cheap in the thrift shop? I can think of several reasons why you shouldn't do this:
Because I already own it. Because the animal has already paid the ultimate price. I wouldn't buy something new, but if I buy from a thrift store it keeps that item (if it doesn't sell) from ending up in a landfill.
That said, I'm not big on leather anyway. I've got a jacket I've had for about 15 years, and some shoes that once they wear out I won't be replacing with leather ones. As for the coat I found, I saved it from the landfill.
Edit: spelling
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Because the animal has already paid the ultimate price.
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I have this crazy theory - if humans could hear carrots screaming as they got ripped out of the ground, does that mean vegans / vegetarians would have to starve to death?
I mean.... we once thought the world was flat. How do we know vegetables don't feel pain?
Think about that the next time you make mashed potatoes. "AHHH! STOP! OWWWWW!"
hehehe. But that's just me.
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Because the animal has already paid the ultimate price.
The ground beef at my grocery store has already paid the ultimate price as well. I'm not sure that's the best argument for being an animal-rights-supporter who wants to wear leather.
I'm saying that I'm not supporting the leather industry. I already own leather shoes and a jacket. I'm not about to toss them. They won't be replaced with new counterparts when they finally wear out, though. Purchasing second hand items doesn't support the industry.
As for the coat I found, I saved it from the landfill.
Or you 'saved it' from somebody else's back. If you would sell it or give it away, then the new owner might not feel the need to buy a new one.
No, I literally saved it from the landfill. I found it in a Staples dumpster. What it was doing in there, I dunno.
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Ethics play a role, but a person who is a hardcore vegetarian for moral reasons is necessarily a hypocrit because that person is still wearing leather shoes and drinking milk and eating eggs and cheese, etc.
You're assuming an awful lot about someone and stating that they HAVE TO be a hypocrite based on something that may or may not be true. Are all shoes leather? Are they still ingesting milk/eggs/cheese? Maybe other examples would work better, but those are extremely poor ones and are simply unfounded and wildly speculative.
A vegetarian who quits consuming all animal products is a vegan. That's what I mean. If you're a vegetarian solely for ethical reasons the moment you quit being a hypocrit you also cease to be a vegetarian. You become a vegan. I don't think it's that big a deal, though. I think that stealing is bad, but I occassionally use my printer at work to print personal things. I download the occassional mp3 and I steal Xbox games like they were going out of style (I not entirely sure what that means, but I mean that I have about 40-50 games that I never payed for). That doesn't mean that I should change my views about stealing. I should probably just work toward the goal of not stealing at all.
...and so on. I stand by what I said.
I also think, though, that no matter how valid or true your beliefs are, you undermine them and often negate them entirely when you become rigid and/or dogmatic in your adherence to them.
"People of zee world, Relax!"
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(http://stuffthatisawesome.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/morimoto-seal-talk.jpg)
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a person who is a hardcore vegetarian for moral reasons is necessarily a hypocrit because that person is still wearing leather shoes and drinking milk and eating eggs and cheese, etc.
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If you're a vegetarian solely for ethical reasons the moment you quit being a hypocrit you also cease to be a vegetarian.
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That's true. But if you believe that you should stop eating animals because they are treated horribly, then it only makes sense to stop consuming any animal product that comes from a place where they are treated horribly. If you believe that killing a sentient animal is wrong, then you should stop any and all practices that contribute to the killing of sentient animals instead of selectively stopping the easy ones.
I don't think a little hypocricy is that big a deal. Obviously anyone who believes that God is literally watching us at all times is a little guilty of this. But if a person is has the ethical beliefs of a vegan, but only goes so far as to become a vegetarian there is an inherent hypocricy there. If you are a vegetarian because you think meat is gross or unhealthy that isn't the case. And if you are a hypocritical vegetarian you still have taken a step in the right direction so it can still be looked at in a good light to some degree. But it's impossible to avoid hypocricy and embrace vegetarianism rather than veganism for moral/ethical reasons.
And yes, I eat meat of all kinds. Just not very much of it. And yes, I think people should eat no meat that comes from most of the places I almost always get my meat. And yes that is hypocritical.
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I think Ron White sums it up for me-
"I didn't rise to the top of the food chain to eat f**kin' carrots."
I certainly respect people who want to be vegetarian but I have met some people who are militant about it that drive me nuts. Man was built to be an omnivore. My grandfather is a rancher who raises cattle for beef. They are raised in pastures and taken good care of. It is not any more immoral for me to eat meat then any other animal on the planet that does so.
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But it's impossible to avoid hypocricy and embrace vegetarianism rather than veganism for moral/ethical reasons.
Using that logic it's impossible to avoid hypocricy and embrace veganism rather than Photosynthesism for moral/ethical reasons.
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I trust that secretly you can see for yourself what is so retarded about that argument, Dartful. There are a couple things actually, but either one will do.
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I trust that secretly you can see for yourself what is so retarded about that argument, Dartful.
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(http://stuffthatisawesome.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/morimoto-seal-talk.jpg)
You have commited the ultimate sacrilige. An Iron Chef, using Ketchup?!?
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If a cow isn't milked, it dies. You are doing the cow a favor by taking its milk.
The cows milk is meant for one being only: it's baby calf. As with any creature, the calf determines the amount of milk it needs, and the mother's body adjusts accordingly. Eventually, the calf will wean itself, and the mother will stop producing milk for it.
OTOH, when you have a factory farm, the cows are milked many times a day, far more than a calf would ever take in. So if you were to suddenly stop milking it, it would either die, or be *very* uncomfortable.
So by milking a cow you aren't doing it any favors, sorry.
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Here's an example of one, by the way. (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6879097)
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I trust that secretly you can see for yourself what is so retarded about that argument, Dartful. There are a couple things actually, but either one will do.
I'm not making that argument, you are/were.
But I'm glad you see how wrong your argument was.
Okay...so maybe I overestimated you. Let's see...
Practicing vegetarianism = Humanly possible
Practicing Veganism = Humanly possible
Practicing Photosythesisiism = Not humanly possible
One of these isms is doing it's own thing....
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Practicing Photosythesisiism = Not humanly possible
Practicing vegetarianism for moral/ethical reasons is possible
Practicing Veganism for moral/ethical reasons is possible
Practicing Carnivoresm for moral/ethical reasons is possible
Practicing Photosythesisism for moral/ethical reasons is possible
You can Practice anything.
For example: you can go to the top of a tall building and practice your flying skills.
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Or, for example, you can go into a thread and practice sounding lame....
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Or, for example, you can go into a thread and practice sounding lame....
Since I asked you to practice something you will not capable of doing, you must think I am incapable of being lame.
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LMAO.....what is this, I'm rubber you're glue?
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It's almost 7pm on a Friday night, and I'm still at work waiting for a client to send me raw files for their cd.
Darn you 10pm FedEx!
I'm very bitter.
Also I'm tired so me English are starting to be no good.
To get some energy for tonight, I'll make myself a bloody rare steak.
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Add a bloody mary to the mix and you've got a nice combination.
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Would you guys like, get a room or something? :P
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A rubber room, perhaps....unless you guys have different fetishes.
I've practiced flying lots of times, but I haven't mastered it at the 1-foot-off-the-ground level yet, so I'll wait until I'm proficient at that level before moving up. I've got many years to go before I can try a tall building.
And I no longer have to practice, I just have to choose my spots....to be lame
I'm gonna smoke a salmon tomorrow, since you guys got me all charged up for some form of animal flesh. The hard part will be getting rolling papers large enough. I'm gonna have to see a man about a horse.
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I dont eat meat cause its just not good for you. As far as being "born" to eat meat..nope. Im not gonna explain it again but i think we are evolving just not done yet. And prolly not in my lifetime. Also they add hormones and a bunch of other crap to meat now. And saw a comment on the FDA lmao they will sell you whatever they think will make them money...you dont think they dont get payed off come on this is america. And i just chopped a carrot in half and it didnt scream.
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And i just chopped a carrot in half and it didnt scream.
Maybe due to you not eating meat you're missing a vital enzyme required for hearing those high-pitched screams.
You should be more worried that someday you don't piss off all the rest of the vegetables because of your callous attitude towards the carrot family. It's all fun and games until you're being stalked by the celery. I wouldn't be so quick to turnip your nose at the meat group. Lettuce not forget, if cows roamed wild, they'd be our competition for all those delicacies you desire unless you're willing to shell out more cabbage for 'em. Friggen cucumber-some beasts! You'd have to eventually beet the snot out of a cow. Think how morally corn-fusing that would be! Eventually it all comes down to either the cow gets it, or you, so peas, asparagus your sob stories.
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I dont eat meat cause its just not good for you. As far as being "born" to eat meat..nope. Im not gonna explain it again but i think we are evolving just not done yet. And prolly not in my lifetime. Also they add hormones and a bunch of other crap to meat now. And saw a comment on the FDA lmao they will sell you whatever they think will make them money...you dont think they dont get payed off come on this is america. And i just chopped a carrot in half and it didnt scream.
The biggest concern (in my opinion) is not the hormones given, but the antibiotics given to prevent problems from the growth hormones themselves.
I am somewhat concerned about the resistant properties that may be developed from these antibiotics and the widespread possibility of a super bug that we are unable to fight.
But man, I do love a big bloody steak bug's n'all.
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Then buy your beef from someone that doesn't use antibiotics or hormones.
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Then buy your beef from someone that doesn't use antibiotics or hormones.
I think the main concern is that it is happening and regardless of if you eat such food or not, the bugs are evolving to become resistant to antibiotics and they are out there and in growing numbers.
Which may or may not be an issue if you then eat a mushroom or something that was grown in fertiliser with dormant but resistant bad guys.
I know the odds of this happenning are slim, but there are odds.
Even woman now who eat salmon that have spawned and been exposed to plastic wastes are having troubles becoming pregnant due the residues mimicking hormones in which the side effect is contraception.
There are all sorts of things going on that we have no idea of and the food chain is where it all begins.
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;D Peale your decision is awesome. Me and my wife have been Vegans for 2 years now and never have we been more healthy(in response to earlier aligations). If you choose to stop eating meat and you replace it with chips, cakes and candy; of course you will be fat and unhealthy. Neither me or my wife have had a cold, or any other sickness since. As for choosing to go veg on moral grounds you get much respect from me, and it will be more worthwhile. Trying to do it for fashionable reasons only leads to let downs. So more Power to you and its good to see people spreading the message.
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The biggest concern (in my opinion) is not the hormones given, but the antibiotics given to prevent problems from the growth hormones themselves.
The biggest concern (in my opinion) is that I know people who can really work up a lather about all of the dangerous chemical voodoo we perform with animals, and then not give a crap we are letting companies splice genes from anything they can get their hands on into plant stocks they don't put too much of an effort into tracking. :'(
I used to be re-assured that there was always that cave somewhere if things got too bad, but it turns out the last owner was arrested because some of the neighbour's GM crops cross-fertilised with his vegetable garden... :police:
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dairy cows are breed to produce too much milk. so you really do have to keep milking it. having said that if you wanted to stop the cycle you wouldnt breed any more of those cows.
the ultimate thing to do would be to be a fruitarian. but im not sure how well id go picking fallen fruit off the ground and eating roadkill :o
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dairy cows are breed to produce too much milk. so you really do have to keep milking it. having said that if you wanted to stop the cycle you wouldnt breed any more of those cows.
Cows will only produce as much milk as is taken from it. Same with any animal.
But I do agree...they should stop breeding them.
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*ugh* PETA... I grew up in Norfolk, VA, not far away from the PETA national headquarters. I'm not saying being a vegatarian is crazy, it works for some people, but those people at PETA are crazy. That is the most militant group of meat-haters I have ever been exposed to.
Basically, what I am trying to say is, be a vegetarian, that's fine. But don't associate yourself with PETA.
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I wouldn't do anything crazy, but I agree with most of their principles.
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dairy cows are breed to produce too much milk. so you really do have to keep milking it. having said that if you wanted to stop the cycle you wouldnt breed any more of those cows.
Cows will only produce as much milk as is taken from it.
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OK, but they are breed to have udders much larger than necessary. they have WAY more milk than is needed for their calves. it makes sense to have bred them that way because that is what WE wanted from them. MEAT cows have smaller udders yet their calves don't starve to death...
The calves are taken away within a couple weeks after birth, if the calf is to be a milk cow. They're then bottle fed. If they're a male calf they get tied up so they can't move (don't want to work that muscle, you know it makes the meat tough!) then slaughtered at about a month old.
The udders on your average milk cow are distended because they're producing far more milk than they would for just their calf, and on top of that they do it for an average of five years, before their bodies give out.
Meat cows have smaller udders because they don't give milk.
Of course, different places do things differently. There's a family farm not far from here where the calves stay with the mother (at least the female calves) and they get to roam on a pasture and eat the grass there. They also only have a few cows. Not like a factory farm where they pile them on top of one another.
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International Respect for Chickens Day (http://www.upc-online.org/alerts/31805respect.htm)
Wednesday May 4, 2005
Remember if you're going to deep fry a whole chicken you need to buy it on May 4, so there will be a noticeable economical affect.
Nothing says respect like profit.
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I'm going to remain undecided and watch chiken run while eating a huge tub of kfc.
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hungry yet ;D