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Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: Elfman on April 12, 2005, 10:28:30 am

Title: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on April 12, 2005, 10:28:30 am
Have been planning for about 2 weeks now.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: oldsage on April 12, 2005, 11:37:59 am
Another guy broke into my mind! They always take the good ideas, too!
j/k...
That's an awesome idea, but i have one comment which might sound a bit bitchy, but...
In the name of some things that are good (and stuff), please, please, please, don't make it a UAII cab!
Or at least change the plans...! Just DON'T use that commercial crap (at least not as it is)!
I am getting tired of seeing that everywhere... Even LuCiDs (that's how it's spelled?) plans were nice at first, but after every damn cab used them, they got boring..!
Please, i am begging you, this idea has LOTS of potential that UAII is taking away...

</grumbling>

...Nice idea though...
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on April 28, 2005, 03:06:20 pm
Here is my revised CP design.  I decided to remove the 4 way since I had a hard time placing it so that it would be a compfortable fit.  Either my wrists were sitting on some buttons or I had to go around an 8 way to get to it.  I may add one later, but I think I will see how it goes first.

So how does the placement look?  Are the joys to close to the edge/trackball? Is the spinner to high up?

I moved the spinner as far north as I could so that I could have free range on the trackball without my knuckles hitting things.  The 2 buttons above player 2 are the dedicated mouse buttons for the trackball.  Above that, I have the black admin buttons.  Then on the right and left top I have the player 1 and 2 coin and start buttons.

So let me know how this looks.  Still working on the cabinet so it will take me a bit to get to the CP but I thought I would like to have something decided upon before I got to it.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: rchadd on May 04, 2005, 08:22:15 am
I decided to remove the 4 way since I had a hard time placing it so that it would be a compfortable fit.

don't know if you've got your joysticks already but maybe the 8/4 way switchable joysticks such a Ultimarc TStick Plus would be a solution

i've got them in my cab and think that they are a perfect solution
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: chrisindfw on May 04, 2005, 08:28:27 am
I am using visio too. Nice tool.. However, are your buttons too close together. Especially with the lip of the button on top. You may want to print it out and try it out on cardboard first.

Just a suggestion, and learning from experience.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: dphirschler on May 04, 2005, 08:34:49 am
They look fine to me.  Mine are very close as well, but there was plenty of room for them.  The primary concern should be the nut underneath.  Still can't argue with trying it out on cardboard first.


Darryl
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on May 04, 2005, 04:14:45 pm
I decided to remove the 4 way since I had a hard time placing it so that it would be a compfortable fit.

don't know if you've got your joysticks already but maybe the 8/4 way switchable joysticks such a Ultimarc TStick Plus would be a solution

i've got them in my cab and think that they are a perfect solution

Yeah, I considered that too.  But of course I considered it after I bought my two supers from Happs.  ;)

When I order my IPac, I may still pick up a Tstick and throw the whole thing in cardboard to test it out.

Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on May 04, 2005, 04:18:08 pm
They look fine to me.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on May 04, 2005, 04:26:07 pm
Okay, now I need a little advice on which keyboard emulator I should use with this CP.

I first considred the IPac2 but then thought that I may quickly run out of connectors on that.  Especially if I end up putting a 4 way back onto the CP.  I know that Player 1 can be held for shift, then the admin buttons would become availble so the admin buttons shouldn't take up any more.

Then I thought that the IPac4 would work but thought it might be overkill with just a two player CP.

I would also consider the Keywiz fro groovy game gear but I quickly get confused as to what sort of emulator I should get since they have emulators for all kinds of controls (360 etc).

So given this configuration (keep in mind I may put a 4 way back onto it and I will have at least 2 buttons on the side for flippers and VP), what emulator should I get?  I would prefer screw terminal (non-solder) connectors if at all possible.

My Trackball and spinner will both be USB.

Thanks for any input!

Brad
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Tiger-Heli on May 07, 2005, 12:33:25 pm
I would also consider the Keywiz fro groovy game gear but I quickly get confused as to what sort of emulator I should get since they have emulators for all kinds of controls (360 etc).
You mean 49-way joysticks.
Quote
So given this configuration (keep in mind I may put a 4 way back onto it and I will have at least 2 buttons on the side for flippers and VP), what emulator should I get?  I would prefer screw terminal (non-solder) connectors if at all possible.
Counting inputs and ingnoring the mouse buttons on the trackball and the flipper buttons, it looks like you have 31 inputs required.

You have three options as I see it.

The KeyWiz is 32 inputs and PS/2.

The GGG GP-Wiz is 32 inputs and USB, but looks like a gamepad to the PC, so you need to reconfigure MAME to use Gamepad keys, but that's not a big deal.

Or there's the I-PAC VE, which is also USB.

Either of the GGG products will be about $35 with the screw terminals (which I recommend) or $24 with an IDE header.

The I-PAC VE is $35 with screw terminals.

Your mouse buttons should be covered by whatever interface you use for the trackball.

Your flipper buttons can either share inputs with the action buttons or you could convert the admin buttons to one-click shazaaam! buttons using RandyT's adapters to free up more inputs.  That would also go for the four way.

FWIW.

See http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/shiftkeys.htm for more on the adapters.   
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: markrvp on May 07, 2005, 03:51:14 pm
Keep in mind that adding a 4-way joystick doesn't take up any more inputs on your keyboard encoder.  You wire your 4-way joystick to the exact same inputs on the keyboard encoder as your Player 1 8-way joystick.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on May 11, 2005, 11:05:46 pm
Started applying vinyl to my cabinet.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on June 23, 2005, 07:30:46 pm
Sorry I haven't updated in a while.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on June 23, 2005, 08:13:37 pm
My revised control panel design.

4 way and spinner are back on.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: MudFlapMan on June 24, 2005, 07:11:32 am
i like ti better without... but what do i know...
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Tiger-Heli on June 24, 2005, 07:25:56 am
Like it a lot, especially the trackball placement on the artwork.

One concern - if the white buttons are the buttons with the little guys on them - they have to mount with the microswtich tabs coming out on the right side.  So you may need to move the 2P start button inboard and/or down, and you will want to make the 1P start symmetrical with it.

FWIW.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on June 24, 2005, 11:02:59 am
One concern - if the white buttons are the buttons with the little guys on them - they have to mount with the microswtich tabs coming out on the right side.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Sinner on June 24, 2005, 11:12:36 am
One concern - if the white buttons are the buttons with the little guys on them - they have to mount with the microswtich tabs coming out on the right side.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Tiger-Heli on June 24, 2005, 12:16:49 pm
One concern - if the white buttons are the buttons with the little guys on them - they have to mount with the microswtich tabs coming out on the right side.  So you may need to move the 2P start button inboard and/or down, and you will want to make the 1P start symmetrical with it.

Thanks!

Now that you mention it, you are correct.  I may just move them under the 'ST' and the 'DE" on each side respectively. 

Thanks for the heads up!
It's not hard to pop the button out of the sleeve and turn it around...then the switch will be pointing the other way...it's just 2 little tabs at the bottom, and a sprint on the inside...
Awesome!  I never thought about that, but that should work out fine!!!  Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on July 04, 2005, 05:26:54 pm
Quick update.

I'll give a more detailed write up later.

Control panel is 80% done.  Still needs to be wired and a box built for it.  Then mounting to the cabinet.

This CP turned out better than I though possible!

Word of advice.  Lexan is SOOO worth the price.

Happy 4th all!

More later...

Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: GameOver on July 04, 2005, 08:56:39 pm
Sa-weet brother!  Well done.

The spinner looks a bit out of place to me - any problems getting to it, and what buttons will you use with it?  Can't wait to see more!  Excellent work.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: xonix_digital on July 04, 2005, 09:01:49 pm
absolutly LOVE the trackball placement and color!
very nice!

-=XD=-
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on July 05, 2005, 09:53:47 am
Sa-weet brother!
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on July 05, 2005, 11:14:06 am
Now onto my Control Panel write up.

Over the long weekend, I decided to get to work on my control panel since I will be heading out on vacation next week and wanted to get something done before I left.

Ran off to HD and went looking for 5/8 MDF or something comparable.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: xonix_digital on July 11, 2005, 05:37:26 am
pixpixpixpixpixpixpixpixpix -  ;D

-=XD=-
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on August 20, 2005, 11:00:25 pm
Just some minor touch ups left but it is indeed playable.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: the3eyedblindman on August 21, 2005, 02:50:54 pm
I think the cabinet would appreciate it if you put a bezel around its tv.  :(
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 21, 2005, 04:12:24 pm

All that great work and you put a television in it?
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Acids on August 22, 2005, 02:10:54 am

All that great work and you put a television in it?

Whats wrong with that?
It Looks Fully Functional and not that out of place.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: GadgetGeek on August 22, 2005, 09:24:24 am
Great work.  One suggestion would be to replace the white player 1/2 buttons with black ones.  Otherwise, amazing work.  And to repeat what others say, designing the death star artwork around the trackball placement was genius.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 22, 2005, 10:49:20 am
Whats wrong with that?
It Looks Fully Functional and not that out of place.


A Corvette with a four cylinder engine is also fully functional.  He put a LOT of work into this, using an arcade monitor and AVGA wouldn't cost much more and would be so much better.  TVs just don't do it.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Timoe on August 22, 2005, 10:59:48 am
the TV looks like a perfect fit.  The TV might make windows look not so good.  But it will look fine for the games.  Oh and if you want to watch a movie or TV or something.  Plus it gives him something else to work on later.  Adding the $500 worth of arcade monitor and graphics cards cables and whatever else that might require.

nice project.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Onji on August 22, 2005, 11:09:04 am
Dont listen to them, TV's work great in cabinets. Looks great buddy, get that bezel soon :)
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 22, 2005, 11:24:05 am

$500?  You could get a used 19" arcade monitor without burn for less than $100, and an AVGA for far less than $100.  Or, you could use an older cheap ATI card for less than $20.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Timoe on August 22, 2005, 11:32:03 am
Oh, my bad.  Get a 19" monitor.  What size is that TV?
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Wade on August 22, 2005, 11:32:15 am
I'm not a huge fan of TV's either, but a 19" monitor in this large cabinet would definitely be a worse option. :)

Wade
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 22, 2005, 11:34:37 am

So how big is the TV?
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on August 22, 2005, 11:58:20 am
Wow, I never knew my TV would spark up this conversation.

Thanks for the comments on the setup (I think
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 22, 2005, 12:21:06 pm
Quote
I have lowered the resolution to 640x480 and Windows doesn't look all that bad.

You didn't go to all that time, work, and expense to get a setup you describe as doesn't look all that bad, did you?
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Onji on August 22, 2005, 04:01:10 pm
Quote
You didn't go to all that time, work, and expense to get a setup you describe as doesn't look all that bad, did you?

He's referring to WINDOWS, not mame. Games through MAME on a TV look great. Just text in windows (start menu etc) itself is not all that bad now. But who cares how windows looks, the games and frontend are what matters
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 22, 2005, 04:03:37 pm

I disagree.  Even using Svideo, games on a TV are not going to look like they do on a real arcade monitor.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: the3eyedblindman on August 22, 2005, 05:57:19 pm
YOU ARE WRONG! When using S video on a 27 inch tv, and putting a happ bezel around it, no one would ever know it wasnt a real arcade monitor, thats what I use and it works great, I actually think it looks better than an arcade monitor sometimes, your statements are completely ridiculous, but they are your opinions, so im not going to argue. Putting a 19 inch monitor in an ultimate arcade 2 would be absolutely ridiculous. Please think before you post....by the way, your cabinet looks outstanding, just order yourself a happ bezel for about 11 bucks and your set!  ;)
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: dennis808 on August 23, 2005, 05:59:23 am
FWIW, I think a TV gets really close to the arcade feel, and is FAR less expensive than an arcade-monitor of the same size.
Since you've already spent a lot of money, I can understand you're opting for a TV.

BTW, does it have an RGB or Component input? If you use those, not even the experts will see it's a TV anymore.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 23, 2005, 08:47:24 am

I've seen them done side by side.  When done right, the difference is very noticeable.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: TheVengeance on August 23, 2005, 10:17:05 am

I've seen them done side by side.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 23, 2005, 10:21:34 am

For reasons I have stated over and over again on this forum, I do not have a MAME cabinet and I rarely use MAME.  If you want to know the reasons, a quick search should find those threads.  This (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=35297.0) is my current project.

I'm offering an opinion here to the guy.  He's done a great job on the cabinet.  I think he's doing himself a disservice settling for a TV.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Timoe on August 23, 2005, 10:26:42 am
Ok, well....  He's got a great TV for now and next year or in a month or two when he's got the $$$.$$ he can enjoy the building process again when he gets into Arcade Monitors.

My comp doesn't have an AGP slot so I simply wont be able to go Arcade monitor style for a while.



For now, thats a baaaahd assssked cab and I'm jealoous that I dont have one.  >:(
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 23, 2005, 10:29:34 am

Fair enough... funds are tough.  Use the TV, then pick up a good used 25" monitor later on.  Good plan.   :)
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: dennis808 on August 23, 2005, 11:13:36 am
Quote
I've seen them done side by side.  When done right, the difference is very noticeable.

Have you seen a component (or RGB-SCART) equipped TV next to a medium resolution monitor?

I'm specificaly stating medium res 'cos it's not really fair to compare a TV to a WG9200, which is high res, and about 5 times more expensive... ;)
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 23, 2005, 11:27:17 am

Most games are not medium res, so it wouldn't be a reasonable thing to do. 

Are there any 15khz capable video cards with component or SCART outputs?  I don't know of any.

The whole point of that complex a setup is to reproduce the games exactly as they were, monitor and resolution included.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: dennis808 on August 23, 2005, 02:53:17 pm
Quote
Are there any 15khz capable video cards with component or SCART outputs?

Yep, all Ati Radeons can put out 15Khz, all you need is the right software (powerstrip), and a cable as described here: http://ryoandr.free.fr/english.html

(you might wanna check this too: http://ryoandr.free.fr/emus-en.html

 :police: We're getting really offtopic here!  :police:

Anyway, building cabs is about having fun, and I think Elfman is gonna have a blast on his Death Star!

Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 23, 2005, 04:45:12 pm

Right, but I haven't seen a Radeon with component or SCART out...

Yep, all Ati Radeons can put out 15Khz, all you need is the right software (powerstrip), and a cable as described here: http://ryoandr.free.fr/english.html
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Grasshopper on August 23, 2005, 04:51:31 pm

Right, but I haven't seen a Radeon with component or SCART out...


But they all have VGA out.

You have to make a custom VGA to SCART cable.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 23, 2005, 04:54:35 pm

Ah, yes, right.  Good call.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: nolie on August 24, 2005, 02:58:15 am
Here's a good link to s-video vs. component out comparison: 

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4531

Haven't started my project yet--still curious to know how much better Wells-Gardner 27" D9200 is stacked against for example a JVC AV-27530 27" TV.  The JVC can be purchased for $200 or less and has component inputs.  Hear a lot about how much better component is vs. s-video but I'm wondering if an arcade monitor is that much better than component TV.  I'd like to hear from someone who has actually  truly compared or checked into this for their own project and has real knowledge.  Anyone?

Death Star graphics are superb by the way.  Wondering about the CP though.  Particularly, Lexan vs. a pour-on resin material where you torch out the bubbles.  Can't remember what it's called but other projects have done the CP that way.  Heard it's better because you don't have the Lexan edges to deal with.  Death Star didn't have screws and that's good.

Overall, Death Star along with the Heavy Metal mame and the Zelda mame--top graphics I've seen thus far.

http://www.mameworld.net/massive/Cabinet/Zeldamame/Zelda.htm

http://www.mindspring.com/~chrisnewsome/index.html

Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 24, 2005, 09:02:07 am
Haven't started my project yet--still curious to know how much better Wells-Gardner 27" D9200 is stacked against for example a JVC AV-27530 27" TV.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Timoe on August 25, 2005, 12:19:35 am
I think it also has to do with the resolution the monitor will display. An arcade monitor does not have as high a resolution as a Computer Monitor but I think they can produce a crisper picture than a non High Def TV.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 25, 2005, 08:15:42 am

They're both 15khz... the crispness is the difference in signal type.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on August 25, 2005, 11:34:25 am
Overall, Death Star along with the Heavy Metal mame and the Zelda mame--top graphics I've seen thus far.

http://www.mameworld.net/massive/Cabinet/Zeldamame/Zelda.htm

http://www.mindspring.com/~chrisnewsome/index.html

Thanks for the compliment! 

Since this is your first post, I will assume you haven't seen some of the other great works of art on this site.  Personally, I feel my graphics are sub par at best but I am my own worst critic I suppose.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ChadTower on August 25, 2005, 01:34:53 pm

I can't say I would ever place one of those cabs above one with totally original art.  It's a lot easier to take someone else's concept and graphics and put it on a nice looking background than it is to make original art.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: ViriiGuy on August 29, 2005, 02:00:11 am
Wow!!!!
I have never seen people be so biligerant about someones choice of monitor setup.

I am personally going with a TV when I do mine due to budget restraints. And from what I have seen a TV can gie almost as nice a picture as an arcade monitor.

Good job on the cab mate.
Title: Re: Project Death Star
Post by: Elfman on August 29, 2005, 01:25:50 pm
Wow!!!!
I have never seen people be so biligerant about someones choice of monitor setup.

Yeah, I was a little surprised as well.