The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls

Software Support => GroovyMAME => Topic started by: JoeB on March 16, 2016, 11:44:38 pm

Title: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 16, 2016, 11:44:38 pm
I recently rebuild my Arcade PC with Windows 7 x64 on a 250GB SSD drive (tired of losing brand new Western Digital SATA drives!).  I migrated from Windows XP x64 and so far I love it.  I've got everything working great on my PC LCD screen (Hyperspin, RocketLauncher, GroovyMAME 0.171).

I'm ready to install the Windows 7 drivers and plug in the 29" Arcade monitor following the guide.  But I did run into a small issue and I need help with.

My ATI 4350 card is one of those that has DVI, HDMI and VGA port (VGA is on a ribbon that plugs into card PCB).  I currently use the DVI port via DVI to VGA adapter (it's how it worked with Arcade monitor/JPAC before).  The problem is that I'm missing the VGA plug/ribbon on video card for LCD/Monitor swaps!! Not sure why I removed it at some point.

I was wondering.  Either:

1) Can someone share a pinout of the ATI PCB to VGA port
2) Can I install the drivers using LCD monitor, and then somehow switch resolution, shutdown, plug Arcade Monitor, reboot and have it work?

This video card already has Atom-15 installed.  So I don't see the BIOS screen on boot up on my LCD monitor.  :)

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 17, 2016, 12:07:11 pm
Not sure why I removed it at some point.

You guys have an unlimited creativity when it comes to producing new and unexpected edge cases  :)

You could indeed do the whole process with your LCD. The problem is the new drivers force monitor detection on both outputs, so chances are your desktop might end up on the wrong output during the process, and you'll be unable to bring it back. I didn't count with the possibility of an user physically removing the ribbon cable.

Just try it and tell us how it goes, it will help others.

In the worst case you could fix things with a remote desktop app.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 17, 2016, 03:20:10 pm
I got the driver to finally install, and reboot in "test" mode with LCD still connected to it.  But the only way I can get VMMaker to run is on the real LCD screen, when you try to get VMMaker to run on remote desktop, it displays the RMD video adapter as the only one it found, so it won't be able to "write to registry".

Somehow, going back and forth, I finally got VMMaker to run, and rebooted system.  But now system hangs on Windows loading screen (bad device driver?).

I ended uninstalling everything and going back to the drawing board.  I might just have to either:

- Source another 4350
- Purchase a newer Radeon card
- Purchase ArcadeVGA and use these drivers instead of Andy's

I do have a couple of questions though. 

1) If I were to purchase a new video card replacement, which is the best one to get for Windows 7 X64 support?
2) Will the "Test mode" always display in the bottom right with this driver?

Suggestion:

- Somehow during install, I got a missing DLL error.  It was corrected by downloading the Distributed C++ 2010 package from Microsoft.  (should have wrote down the name of the DLL)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 17, 2016, 04:59:48 pm
Are you using CRT Emudriver 2.0?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 17, 2016, 08:46:04 pm
No. The older one / none beta.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: kortina on March 17, 2016, 10:56:18 pm
I got myself a HD5450 for about $20. (AUS)

The interlaced pic is better, and the EDID detection in the new drivers works well.

It is certainly worth the cash. eBay is your friend.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 12:08:34 am
Success!!

I installed version 2.0 beta and followed the instructions.  Before I rebooted, I set the resolution of display 1 to 640x480 60i (just incase).  The LCD went black.  I pressed the left cursor and pressed enter.  I then pressed the power button (to auto shutdown).  Moved everything into the Arcade Machine, powered on.. and I got good screen!

I then finished the setup on 1 screen!

Now time to learned about these super resolutions.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 01:16:12 am
I'll try to minimize the number of threads I open here, hope no one minds me continue to post "issues" as I run into them.

Problem: GM requires Administrator rights to function correctly
Solution:
- Disable UAC
- right click on mame64.exe and make sure "execute as administrator" is set

Problem: HyperSpin runs REALLY REALLY SLOW  .. (it was instant on my LCD monitor)
Solution: ??

Problem: .mp4 videos in Hyperspin are now all green
solution: ??

I did download Firefox, found a flash site, and disabled hardware acceleration on flash.  Didn't change a bit.  Any other options?

Broken Hyperspin is unfortunately a deal breaker for me (As this PC is hidden inside an arcade machine).  I must say, I give Calamity big koodo's for getting it to work in Windows 7.  Microsoft has done quite an act to not allow people to mod drivers and access hardware directly, especially in x64.  This is quite amazing. 
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: P.H.U. on March 18, 2016, 01:36:58 am
No HLSL enabled right?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 01:45:38 am
No HLSL enabled right?

Sorry .. don't know what that is.

mp4 files are green in HyperSpin, black in Windows Media Player.  YouTube videos are all black in the web browser as well.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: dmckean on March 18, 2016, 01:52:56 am
Did you disable hardware acceleration for flash in IE?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: P.H.U. on March 18, 2016, 02:03:07 am
No HLSL enabled right?

Sorry .. don't know what that is.

mp4 files are green in HyperSpin, black in Windows Media Player.  YouTube videos are all black in the web browser as well.

Then that is a no. Sounds like you didn't disable hardware acceleration correctly. Try it in IE, rather than Firefox.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 08:14:50 am
Did you disable hardware acceleration for flash in IE?

Any suggesting a on how to do it? YouTube is now html5. Right click on video just brings custom YouTube controls. Also, why would this effect playing videos in windows media player?

I'm running Windows 7 x64 with all up to date service patches installed.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 18, 2016, 08:29:05 am
Did you start with a fresh Windows 7 install before installing 2.0, or had old CRT Emudriver been already installed in the system.

I'm asking this because I've confirmed dxva acceleration works fine with my HD 5450 and this version of the drivers.

But I haven't confirmed this with a pre-HD 5000.

The green screen issue was well known with the previous drivers and I'm almost sure it came as a consequence of driver patching.

This is why it's so confusing that it works for HD 5000+ here, even with patched 2.0 drivers. Maybe it's because 12.8 is older than 13 which was the base for CRT Emudriver 1.2? Maybe only legacy cards are affected?

BTW, the slowness on HS is due to Aero, just disable it.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 08:37:27 am
Before I installed CRT 2.0 drivers, I used Microsoft fixit tool to disable test mode. I then used ATI's cleanup tool to remove drivers / clean registry.

After a few reboots, I put the card back in the PC (instead of using on-board VGA) and Windows detected it and installed the Microsoft driver. I then followed the thread on how to upgrade this driver to yours.

I'm using an ATI 4350 card.

Do you suggest I get another ATI card? 5000 series?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 18, 2016, 09:32:00 am
I then used ATI's cleanup tool to remove drivers / clean registry.

That tool does nothing unfortunately. If you have an spare hard drive consider trying a fresh Windows 7 installation, I know this is time consuming but it'd help to check once and for all what's the source of the green screen issue.

Quote
Do you suggest I get another ATI card? 5000 series?

Definitely, or a 6000 series even better. The HD 4000 are not really full Win 7-compliant, even if they work.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 09:41:37 am
Ok. I'll look into getting a 6000 series video card. Suggesting on a particular one? Or how to cleanly uninstall the driver?

I'm not crazy about reinstalling Windows 7. Took me many nights to get this installed cleanly on my new SSD drive.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 18, 2016, 10:21:40 am
With the HD 6000 you might be in the same situation unless you start from a fresh Windows 7 install, I'm afraid. I'm not sure however, it's only that when this has worked for me with the HD 5450, it was with a fresh Windows 7 install.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 11:19:10 am
With the HD 6000 you might be in the same situation unless you start from a fresh Windows 7 install, I'm afraid. I'm not sure however, it's only that when this has worked for me with the HD 5450, it was with a fresh Windows 7 install.

Let me ask a different question.  Are you aware of anyone using the latest CRT 2.0 beta drivers with Windows 7 x64, using a 4350 video card, and has Hardware Acceleration working correctly? or is this an "untested combination".  Because as far as I can tell, the old 1.x drivers do not support hardware acceleration on the 4350 .. is this correct?

Also, does ATOM-15 work on 6000 series video cards?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 18, 2016, 11:53:13 am
Let me ask a different question.  Are you aware of anyone using the latest CRT 2.0 beta drivers with Windows 7 x64, using a 4350 video card, and has Hardware Acceleration working correctly? or is this an "untested combination".
Quote

No, I don't know of anyone. Rather than untested, let's say it's poorly reported.

Quote
Because as far as I can tell, the old 1.x drivers do not support hardware acceleration on the 4350 .. is this correct?

Correct.

Quote
Also, does ATOM-15 work on 6000 series video cards?

Yes.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 01:12:24 pm
OK. Purchased a brand new Asus silent 6450 from a local computer store.

Will try it out tonight.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 18, 2016, 04:21:49 pm
Great. Remind that for the HD 6450 you need to use the VGA output, the DVI is digital only.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 07:08:17 pm
This is really frustrating..  :(

- uninstalled drivers, reset back to non-test mode
- put 6450 card into PC

Windows 7 x64 detected it as "Generic VGA card".  Windows Media Player still shows black screen on MP4.

- Went to AMD web site.  Downloaded latest official driver for it (AMD-Catalyst-15.7.1-Without-DOTNet45-Win7-64bit).  Installed driver.

Windows Media Player plays mp4 files perfectly.

- Installed crt_emudriver_&_tools_2.0_beta_8_12.6_W.7.8.10-64 on top of this.  Rebooted just fine.  Shows the high res on my LCD screen.

Windows media player back to black screen, Hyperspin green screen.  Flash (using latest flash driver) plays fine in  web browser with / without hardware acceleration.

So I didn't even bother with VMMaker.  Standard LCD screen doesn't even work in standard 1024x768 resolution.  So If I spend the next 6 hours reinstalling windows 7, redownloading the 235 security patches, what are the changes that magically it's going to start working??  :(
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 18, 2016, 07:17:37 pm
So If I spend the next 6 hours reinstalling windows 7, redownloading the 235 security patches, what are the changes that magically it's going to start working??  :(

I suspect the presence of newer versions of leftover libraries installed by Catalyst is what breaks video acceleration for CRT Emudriver. You can't remove them unless you format the hard drive.

A full Windows 7 reinstall, format included takes 15-20 mins on my old P4, conventional HDD. Leave security updates for a later moment.

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 08:36:15 pm
UPDATE:

- Formatted C:
- Install Windows 7 x64 SP1 professional
- Verified windows only saw "Generic display driver" when 6450 is plugged in
  --> Windows media player can play mp4 files

- Ran the crt_emudriver_&_tools_2.0_beta_8_12.6_W.7.8.10-64 setup program
- Told me it needs to go into TEST mode and rebooted
- Ran setup again - updated Generic driver to "AMD Radeon HD 7400 Series CRT Emudriver - WDDM V1.20.  Required a reboot
- Came back from reboot
  --> Windows media player can not play mp4 files - black screen

So .. the driver does not work with the 6450 (not sure why it's reporting it as 7400)

The card is:  Asus EAH6450 SILENT/DI/1Gd3(LP)

**sigh**
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 10:19:46 pm
As per:  http://www.driveridentifier.com/scan/asus-r5-230-series/driver-detail/1E13559D4BB1448FB8C110349F93A10C/2350143/d96da758fbc4391444a780d9db174d39/614031754/PCI%5CVEN_1002%26DEV_6779 (http://www.driveridentifier.com/scan/asus-r5-230-series/driver-detail/1E13559D4BB1448FB8C110349F93A10C/2350143/d96da758fbc4391444a780d9db174d39/614031754/PCI%5CVEN_1002%26DEV_6779)

ASUS EAH6450   PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&SUBSYS_30211043

In the driver properties, I see the following under "hardware Ids":

PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&SUBSYS_30211043&REV_00
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&SUBSYS_30211043
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&CC_030000
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&CC_0300

This is the video card I purchased.  I opened the CD that came with it, and found the Windows 7 x64 INF file (C0186421.inf).  In it I found:

...
"%AMD677B.1%" = ati2mtag_NI, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&SUBSYS_30211043
...
AMD677B.1 = "ASUS EAH6450"

Based on the "ati2mtag_NI" does that mean that the above will just fix the driver name, but the actual driver used will still be the correct one and still not work?

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 18, 2016, 11:11:27 pm
For the heck of it, I pulled the 6450 and put in the 4350.  Windows installed the new driver and rebooted.  It now displays "ATI Radeon HD 4300/4500 Series CRT emudriver - WDDM v1.1).  Windows media player can't play mp4, hyperspin still can't play them either.

I don't have flash installed, but there is flash inside of Chrome.  When I go to a web site with flash, it actually plays fine (on both) with or without hardware acceleration turned on/off (some kind of hack by Google?)

I'm stuck.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 19, 2016, 05:34:25 am
Ok let's do something, please upload one of your problematic mp4 somewhere, I'm going to test it here and report back.

Update: I installed Windows 7 from scratch, now with an Asus HD 6450 Silent, installed CRT Emudriver 2.0. I've tested some mp4s and they all play fine on Windows Media Player. Also tested HS (very old version) and videos play fine.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 19, 2016, 09:31:30 am
The reason why MP4 file support is important is because the new hyperspin (1.4) supports MP4 videos instead of flash FLV videos. EmuMovies moved all their videos to MP4. I'm just testing one of their standard MP4 videos. I'll try playing something that came out of my iPhone or I converted myself.

Also. I only installed the driver. I'm using your driver on a regular LCD screen set to 1024x768. I did not enable and CRT resolutions. I assume this should be fine.

Is there a reason why the same MP4 and hyperspin will work with generic video driver but not CRT 2.0?

I'll install the Asus oem driver. See if it starts working. Then do a fresh install (again). Willing to try other combinations.

test mp4 file:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkged18n50vmb3r/3wonders.mp4?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkged18n50vmb3r/3wonders.mp4?dl=0)

works great in VLC player on system. Click download button on top right.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: big10p on March 19, 2016, 11:28:03 am
To get videos to work, I had to install a codec pack - think I used K-lite. And as Calamity said, I also disabled Aero. I use MaLa though, so don't know if it'll fix things for HS.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 19, 2016, 12:14:51 pm
To get videos to work, I had to install a codec pack - think I used K-lite. And as Calamity said, I also disabled Aero. I use MaLa though, so don't know if it'll fix things for HS.

When I did that it started working. That codec disables hardware acceleration and uses software. Doesn't help with HS. Personally, I'm a huge fan of HW acceleration. It's the only reason your smartphone or set top box can play HDTV h264 video. Their CPU doesn't have enough power. What about DX games? Will they work with CRT 2.0 drivers?

I think the root cause is the driver. There's something in them that turns off DX hardware acceleration which doesn't happen with Unmodified drivers standard Windows driver. I tried with 2 different video cards and same problem.

I wonder if anyone else (except Calamity) got hw acceleration to work with 2.0?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 19, 2016, 01:00:51 pm
I got an idea.  Why don't we use a tool to compare the DXVA settings and compare? 

http://bluesky23.yukishigure.com/en/DXVAChecker.html (http://bluesky23.yukishigure.com/en/DXVAChecker.html)

It generates a lot of information.  Anyone care to focus on a specific line / test we can use to verify?

Here's my main window:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/leonki/dxva.png)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: lettuce on March 19, 2016, 01:45:55 pm
Calamity, would would recommend is the best GPU to get? 5 or 6 series and for what reason?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 19, 2016, 02:13:02 pm
Calamity, would would recommend is the best GPU to get? 5 or 6 series and for what reason?

Based on my reading, I thing the 6 series is best, because you can run groovymame in non-administrative mode and it will switch res on you.  For lower cards, you need command prompt in admin mode / reduce security of system if you want it automated.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 19, 2016, 02:32:19 pm
Uninstalled CRT 2.0, and installed the drivers from Asus.  DXVA checker now reports:

ASUS EAH6450 (Caicos Pro Refresh)
MPEG2_VLD: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
MPEG2_IDCT: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
MPEG2_A: DXVA1, SD / HD / FHD
MPEG2_C: DXVA1, SD / HD / FHD
H264_VLD_NoFGT: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
H264_VLD_NoFGT_Flash: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
6719B6FB-5CAD-4ACB-B00A-F3BFDEC38727: DXVA2
VC1_VLD: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
CA15D19A-2B48-43D6-979E-7A6E9C802FF8: DXVA2
MPEG4pt2_VLD_AdvSimple_Avivo: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
MPEG4pt2_VLD_AdvSimple_NoGMC: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD

Note the last 2 lines.  They are new.  All MP4 videos play fine. 

Also, I know why "generic video adapter" works as well.  According to DXVA Checker and DXDIAG, there is no hardware acceleration available.  All empty.  All software.  :)

Does all this help??
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 19, 2016, 06:07:01 pm
Hi JoeB,

I won't be able to test this again until monday. I'm wondering if all this time it's been working for me just because it was decoding by software.

Anyway, modded drivers preventing dxva from working is an old known issue, that's why you've seen all those tips about disabling hardware acceleration, etc. This is not a bug, this is by design, AMD drivers do this when they detect they've been patched as an anti-copy mechanism for copyright protected media.

It's only that with CRT Emudriver 2.0 I've never experienced the green screen, which was definitely there with 1.2, so I thought somehow this version might be bypassing the problem.

I'll see how I can download HS 1.4 in order to test. Over the years I've grown an increasing hate to this software for all its issues that directly or indirectly end up bouncing back on me.

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 19, 2016, 10:09:42 pm
Forget HS. Let's see if you can get windows media player to play MP4 in hardware. Hyperspin just calls the same routines.

I was wondering if you can also post the output from your DXVA checker after fresh install. Should be identical to mine.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 20, 2016, 08:20:21 pm
SUCCESS!!! Calamity.. feel free to add this to the docs .. I think this will benefit A LOT of people.  I've spend a TON of time to finally figure this out, hopefully this helps a bit ... (I'm still interested to see if a fresh install of the drivers has DXVA working for you).

---------------------------------------------------------------------

DirectX Video Acceleration (DXVA) in Windows 7+ might be turned off with these modified ATI drivers; this seems to trigger a security check that ATI left behind.  This will effect most hardware accelerated video playback in common windows applications.  This includes black screen when playing mp4 files in Windows Media Player, or green screen mp4 playback in HyperSpin 1.4.

To fix this, you need to disable DXVA.  Here's how you can do it:

1) Download directx 9.0c control panel from http://www.majorgeeks.com/Microsoft_DirectX_Control_Panel_d4017.html (http://www.majorgeeks.com/Microsoft_DirectX_Control_Panel_d4017.html)

2)  Extract and run "directx.cpl" as administrator

3) Goto Direct3D and DirectDraw tabs and uncheck "Allow hardware acceleration "

4) Verify DXVA is disabled by executing "dxdiag" from start menu, click the "Display" tab and verify DirectDraw and Direct3D acceleration are disabled

mp4 playback will now work correctly in Windows Media Player and HyperSpin.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: kortina on March 21, 2016, 02:16:06 am
Don't forget that UAC still might get you ;)


Because you are using Hyperspin, it is going to want to launch GroovyMAME (and other apps).

You are best to disable UAC completely, as when Hyperspin calls GroovyMAME it is unlikely that GroovyMAME will start with Admin rights.
This will happen even when you start Hyperspin with Admin rights!


(This is certainly the behaviour of Win8 onwards, cant remember if it applies to Win7)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 21, 2016, 06:23:37 am
Hi JoeB,

I'm happy you found a solution. However, disabling D3D hardware acceleration globally sounds like could affect actual games performance.

I've run dxvachecker from fresh W7 install after installing CRT Emudriver 2.0 and I get the exact same results as you.

The interesting part is, if I play your mp4 file in WMP I get a black screen, same as you. However if I play any mp4 file recorded with my phone, it plays perfectly fine

 I've checked the codec in both videos and it's the same:

video codec: H264 - MPEG-4 AVC (part10)(avc1)
audio codec: MPEG AAC Audio (mp4a)

Only difference I can see is my phone records at 720x480, 29.57 Hz / 44100 Hz while your video is 640x480, 59.94 Hz / 48000 Hz.

So unless I'm missing something, dxva seems to be working but not for all videos?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 21, 2016, 11:45:03 am
Interesting, I'll try some other videos.  I noticed that a lot of other things kind of "break" when DXVA is globally turned off.

- Windows Media Play 11 (SP1 default) works but if your system is up to date on security patches, it ships with WMP 12, and it complains that it can't find CODEC
- VLC Player fails playing.  You need to go into options and set output to Windows GDI driver and it starts working correctly

At the end of the day, this is a dedicated PC inside a New Astro City arcade machine.  As long as MAME and Hyperspin works, I'm done.

Does MAME use DXVA!?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: haynor666 on March 21, 2016, 12:26:13 pm
That reminds me that I didn't check SFIV movies on fresh windows 7 install with HD5450 and HD4350.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 21, 2016, 01:15:02 pm
Interesting, I'll try some other videos.  I noticed that a lot of other things kind of "break" when DXVA is globally turned off.

DXVA can't be turn off globally. What you're turning off is DirectX hardware acceleration, which basically lets your system unusable (similar to using the default VGA driver).

DXVA stands for DirectX Video Acceleration, and only applies to video. It's a very problematic feauture, that's been prone to bugs even on unpatched drivers. If only it was possible to turn it off.

In modern PCs it's really not necessary and CPU usually does much better, the issue being that some software doesn't allow falling back to software rendering.

I know this is preaching in the wilderness, but there's a certain frontend that's getting in the way of many of you.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 21, 2016, 01:46:59 pm
There's a simple reason for it.  :)

Every MAME cab maker has to choose the lesser of 2 evils for their use case:

- A robust, feature full, flexible FE that was cleanly developed - but looks like it's from the early 90's (developers make poor graphic artists)
- A beautiful, easy to setup,  eye candy FE that is poorly coded (artists make poor developers)

Going back to my original question:

- Does MAME use Direct X Video Acceleration?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 21, 2016, 01:49:11 pm
- Does MAME use Direct X Video Acceleration?

Nope.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 21, 2016, 02:02:40 pm
That reminds me that I didn't check SFIV movies on fresh windows 7 install with HD5450 and HD4350.

I did test it and it worked great with my HD 5450, tested it again now with the HD 6540 and it's crashing  ???.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 21, 2016, 02:43:05 pm
I understand the advantages (and disadvantages) of using ATOM-15 along with CRT 2.0 and GroovyMame..

For those individuals that decide to use ArcadeVGA with GroovyMAME, and use the Ultimarc drivers, they will have much more limited number of resolutions, possibility of image tearing (due to possible mismatch of refresh rate), etc.  But putting this aside, and just focusing on the driver.  The Ultimarc driver will work in regular Win7 x64 (non-test mode) and DXVA should work perfectly, correct? Is this because the driver is signed by Microsoft or ATI?

Is it possible to pay to get CRT 2.0 drivers signed as well?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 21, 2016, 03:21:29 pm
The Ultimarc driver will work in regular Win7 x64 (non-test mode) and DXVA should work perfectly, correct?

No, it has the same issue, check this:

http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/topic/6731-arcadevga-5000-not-working-in-hyperspin-freezes-up/ (http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/topic/6731-arcadevga-5000-not-working-in-hyperspin-freezes-up/)

Quote
Is it possible to pay to get CRT 2.0 drivers signed as well?

I already tried that, I'll tell the story some day. Kernel code signing certificates are only issued to registered companies or organizations. I couldn't get one as an individual.

The whole code signing certification is just a big load of crap. And the best part is that these certificates are no longer valid for Windows 10. Now you need to send your drivers to M$ directly to get them signed by them. Imagine the process: "Hey sirs, I'm Mr. Calamity, I hack AMD drivers to allow 15 kHz modes".
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: haynor666 on March 21, 2016, 04:13:37 pm
That reminds me that I didn't check SFIV movies on fresh windows 7 install with HD5450 and HD4350.

I did test it and it worked great with my HD 5450, tested it again now with the HD 6540 and it's crashing  ???.

So the only way to get this game working is right now use official ATI drivers with VMMaker or Soft15kHz :/
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 21, 2016, 04:29:48 pm
Calamity: According to Ultimarc, he provides Windows 7/8 32 and 64 bit drivers.  If that's the case (especially for 64 bit), then M$ must be signing them for him!  How did he pull that off??

If he is using signed 64 bit drivers for Windows 7, than I assume that mp4 playback in Windows media Player should have less issues as well.  The link you provided is for Flash (FLV) playback.  HS has since been updated to play mp4 files.  The days of FLV playback in HS are finally DEAD (thank god!).  If an mp4 can play in Windows Media Player, it will play in HS.  If it can't play in WMP, it won't play in HS.  The 2 are now linked.  Can't blame HS anymore.  :)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 21, 2016, 05:05:54 pm
So the only way to get this game working is right now use official ATI drivers with VMMaker or Soft15kHz :/

No no, it was working for me the other day, I should have recorded a video as a proof.

I spent a few hours with Windbg and the damned thing, and it turned out it was trying to set 1280 x something, I patched the binary to set 640x480 instead and got it working. But today I was trying the same binary on a fresh installation and it's not working anymore.

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 21, 2016, 05:17:07 pm
Calamity: According to Ultimarc, he provides Windows 7/8 32 and 64 bit drivers.  If that's the case (especially for 64 bit), then M$ must be signing them for him!  How did he pull that off??

Windows 7/8, NOT 10 :)
It's with W10 when the kernel code signing method has changed.

Quote
If he is using signed 64 bit drivers for Windows 7, than I assume that mp4 playback in Windows media Player should have less issues as well.  The link you provided is for Flash (FLV) playback.  HS has since been updated to play mp4 files.  The days of FLV playback in HS are finally DEAD (thank god!).  If an mp4 can play in Windows Media Player, it will play in HS.  If it can't play in WMP, it won't play in HS.  The 2 are now linked.  Can't blame HS anymore.  :)

Flv or mp4, it's still the same issue. You can blame HS for not providing a fallback software method. Anyway, my main objection to HS is that it's arguably beautiful :)

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 21, 2016, 07:02:57 pm
experimented some more with DXDIAG and directx.cpl today.  Here are some interesting observations (confirmed via dxdiag in Windows 7):

- directx.cpl only effects the 32-bit version of directX.  64-bit mode stays on.  By default, WMP is the 32-bit binary.  But you can run the 64-bit version by executing it from Program Files (Rather than the 32bit x86 version)
- The thing that kills HS is Direct3D HW acceleration.  If you turn that off, but keep DirectDraw HW acceleration on, the mp4 files work.

For some CRAZY reason, I turned on both hardware acceleration, and WMP started playing the mp4 files!! And so did VLC!! Now only HS shows green screen with MP4 files and hardware acceleration.  I did install (and uninstall the soft CODEC's).  I think something is stuck from before that makes it work now.  I'm sure on fresh install, hardware playback in WMP and VLC will stop working!

I confirmed this by starting 64 bit WMP.  It just shows black screen on mp4 files.  ARGGG.. Why is windows so bad at cleaning up after itself when you uninstall!?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: haynor666 on March 22, 2016, 04:11:58 am
So the only way to get this game working is right now use official ATI drivers with VMMaker or Soft15kHz :/

No no, it was working for me the other day, I should have recorded a video as a proof.

I spent a few hours with Windbg and the damned thing, and it turned out it was trying to set 1280 x something, I patched the binary to set 640x480 instead and got it working. But today I was trying the same binary on a fresh installation and it's not working anymore.

Well, I've installed couple days ago XP x32 again and set up everything from zero. But I still have two spare HHDs so If something interesting pops out then I'll be happy to test on 7 x64.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 22, 2016, 07:43:34 am
I'd love to go back to xp 64bit but I'm now using an SSD drive.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: kortina on March 22, 2016, 06:53:02 pm
Are you sure you turned off the hardware acceleration correctly?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=139953.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=139953.0)

Open IE (not firefox or chrome)
Navigate here: https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player.html#main_Find_Flash_Player_version_type_and_capabilities__Flash_developers_only_ (https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player.html#main_Find_Flash_Player_version_type_and_capabilities__Flash_developers_only_)

Right click on the tree flash animation in part 5.
Choose settings, then untick the "Enable Hardware Acceleration"

When I tried to use the old guides for using firefox and youtube, they don't work. This is because these days Firefox and Youtube do HTML5 by default, so you never get Flash loaded, so whatever HW acceleration you disabled it is NOT what Hyperspin uses!


Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 23, 2016, 12:41:30 am
Yes.  I'm sure that's what I did. 

Also, why are people still stuck on Flash??  Yes, HS is written in Flash, but under the covers it calls DXVA to play MP4 files (I'm not playing the old FLV files like in HS 1.2 - I upgraded to 1.4).  If WMP can play the mp4 file, HS can play it also.  If WMP can't, then HS can't either. 

HS might be a crappy program, but Windows Media Player broken too??
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: sean_sk on March 23, 2016, 10:31:28 am
JoeB its not a case of people being stuck on Flash, it's a case of that the solution presented by kortina and others works.

I have tested both an HD 4670 and an HD 5970 and have had the green video issue in Hyperspin both times, and both times the issue was solved by ensuring that Flash for Internet Explorer was installed and then right clicking an a flash video in Internet Explorer and disabling Hardware Acceleration. As to the technical reasons why this works, I have no idea but it does. I only tested this again a couple of days ago. Running HS 1.4 and yes the videos were .mp4 from emumovies.

It's the easiest solution and saves a lot of stuffing around for nothing.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 23, 2016, 01:07:50 pm
Are you using CRT 2.0? Are you running on Windows 7 x64 with all security patches applied?  It didn't work for me.  I installed flash and tried in IE.  I'll try again.

Also, this might fix HS, but what about other games you might want to play on your PC?  DX PC games, Daphne, etc.?  My solution is universal across the entire system, as it effects DXVA1 and DXVA2 in 32-bit mode across all media types (SD, HD, FHD, 4K, 8K).

I think the flash fix only disables flash hardware acceleration but still leaves others broken.  :(
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 23, 2016, 01:32:41 pm
DX PC games should work just fine, even Daphne works fine on my tests. The feature that is broken is specific to accelerated video playback. That aside DirectX support is perfectly fine with CRT Emudriver. Even OpenGL works.

BTW I tried to rebuild my system and I still have the same issue with your mp4 file. I think before I assumed dxva was working because some mp4 videos do work, as is the case now. I need to figure out why some work and some don't.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 23, 2016, 04:01:39 pm
Can you share a video that works for you? I want to try it on my setup.  Maybe I can figure out what the difference is.  :)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on March 29, 2016, 12:14:40 pm
any luck? can you post a working video somewhere I can download? Maybe I can figure it out.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 29, 2016, 12:18:36 pm
any luck? can you post a working video somewhere I can download? Maybe I can figure it out.

Any video recorded with my phone works, I'd say 3gp is the reason (videos are .mp4 though).

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: Calamity on March 29, 2016, 12:35:48 pm
Sample video: https://mega.nz/#!jxFziQAA!-AgLNH4dOQ3nGkPOeGtZPjnW0slQPLoqfdaLbODUg0g
Proof video:    https://mega.nz/#!flsk3CjI!LpwXOEfmOG1HPs77DbUHHjJkkR4eeJH5PewXVDsRmYQ

EDIT: I added the right links.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on April 02, 2016, 08:29:05 pm
Are you sure you turned off the hardware acceleration correctly?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=139953.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=139953.0)

Open IE (not firefox or chrome)
Navigate here: https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player.html#main_Find_Flash_Player_version_type_and_capabilities__Flash_developers_only_ (https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player.html#main_Find_Flash_Player_version_type_and_capabilities__Flash_developers_only_)

Right click on the tree flash animation in part 5.
Choose settings, then untick the "Enable Hardware Acceleration"

When I tried to use the old guides for using firefox and youtube, they don't work. This is because these days Firefox and Youtube do HTML5 by default, so you never get Flash loaded, so whatever HW acceleration you disabled it is NOT what Hyperspin uses!

These instructions don't seem to work anymore.

using flash:  21,0,0,197
Internet Explorer: 11.0.9600.18230

I turned off HW acceleration for flash, but no effect on HyperSpin
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on April 02, 2016, 08:30:31 pm
Sample video: https://mega.nz/#!jxFziQAA!-AgLNH4dOQ3nGkPOeGtZPjnW0slQPLoqfdaLbODUg0g
Proof video:    https://mega.nz/#!flsk3CjI!LpwXOEfmOG1HPs77DbUHHjJkkR4eeJH5PewXVDsRmYQ

EDIT: I added the right links.

You got the links backwards.  In any case.  You are correct! Windows Media player does play your mp4 with hw acceleration in DXVA on!!  Hyperspin instead of showing a solid green square for this video, just doesn't show it at all (i.e. doesn't load)

I'll try and figure out what the differences are.  :)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on April 02, 2016, 08:47:57 pm
The biggest difference I noticed was the mp4 videos I have are all 60fps and your video is 30fps.  So I downloaded Handbrake and transcoded 1 video to 30fps.  It started to play fine; both in WMP and in Hyperspin!

But here's the crazy thing.  All videos are now playing fine in both! even the 60fps ones!  So I installed something that got the "glitch" fixed!  This explains maybe why your old setup worked and fresh install didn't.  The only 2 apps I installed were Handbrake and MediaInfo.  I'm pretty sure it's something Handbrake did.  Go figure.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..
Post by: JoeB on December 09, 2024, 12:12:58 pm
I recently upgraded to latest version of GroovyMAME and CRT drivers, and of course HyperSpin broke. This time around I discovered how to fix the video issues on Windows 7 64-bit and posting it here for prosperity.  :)

- Edit: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Macromed\Flash\mms.cfg
- Add the following line: DisableHardwareAcceleration=1

MP4 playback will be fixed.  Also, on my system, Shutdown stopped working. I replaced the build in shutdown command with "shutdown.exe /s /f /t 0"

I'd love to get off this compiled flash application, but I still did not find anything as simple, works with 15khz displays, and strong with the eye candy.