Let me just preface this by saying I REALLY wanted to like this movie.
However I just cant love it after seeing it.
I will say this they definitely captured the spirit of Star Wars and it's nothing the can't fix with better writing in the subsequent films. But Jesus Christmas characters telling you how the feel?!?! Hallmark of poor writing.
I am a total Star Wars Purist... And I thought JJ nailed it perfectly. The only gripe would be Carrie Fishers botox injections...
I am a total Star Wars Purist... And I thought JJ nailed it perfectly. The only gripe would be Carrie Fishers botox injections...
I wasn't aware of the botox injections, but it explains a lot.
I kept waiting for her to start acting, but she never made a single facial expression. :lol
It was definitely better than the prequels. This was more true to the world created in the originals.
One of the things that bothered me about episode 1 was that the style of everything strayed too far from the originals.
I know it was supposed to be an earlier time, but not that much earlier.
But Phasma was a useless character and so was the mas kaneda or whatever her name was.... horrible lines and a CGI character for what? Oooh you're supposed to get that I'm a oracle type character that sets our heroes on the right path... Meh... and the Cantina "Song" that JJ was so proud of? It sucked, just another of a ridiculous line of allegorical references to past films exploited for cheap emotional plays on the audience.
Which obviously is more about making financially successful movies than it is about being caretaker of what has become a transcendent mythology of our time.
Why would Luke even have a map to himself in the first place?So he could be found when the time was right.
Why does the First order spend quintillions of space dollars on a weapon that can only fire twice? Have they not learned their lesson? Starkiller base was completely unnecessaryI'm sure the senate being obliterated will play a role in the following chapters. Two shots would have destroyed both the government and the military of the resistance. No need for a third. :) I agree about rehashing the old story though. Another series of bombing runs down a metal canyon? again?
Also isn't a bit convenient that Han and Chewie just happened to be flying by a prostrate Millennium Falcon?They were actively scanning for it. They commented that if they could pick it up easily that the first order also could. That's why they were looking for a different ship to transport BB-8 to the resistance.
Why was the Janitor on a strike mission to Jakku?I got nothing for that one. :lol
No surprise there prequel lover ;)
Add me to the Carrie Fisher's performance was awful list... I mean seriously, you son turned to the dark side, you've been estranged from your baby daddy for 15 plus years and you fail to have any emotion at all upon seeing him and an inappropriate amount of emotion at his death?
Add me to the Carrie Fisher's performance was awful list... I mean seriously, you son turned to the dark side, you've been estranged from your baby daddy for 15 plus years and you fail to have any emotion at all upon seeing him and an inappropriate amount of emotion at his death?
So Leia leaves Han, hooks up with Lando, has a love child that becomes a storm trooper and then said storm trooper kills Lando? I'm just speculating because I haven't seen the movie and you don't kill Han Solo off...I mean unless you want to be ---smurfette--- slapped...
I still have hopes...
While Reys quick mastery of her powers is indeed somewhat inexplicable...
Again the problem for me is the writing. I have a feeling this thing was edited to ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and important stuff was lost to post production.
And it was clearly a novice battle as it should be.Agree 100%.. Kylo Ren is a novice, a wannabe TRYING to be like Vader but knows he isn't good enough. His tantrums and whiney immature attitude prove that.
I have a feeling this thing was edited to ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and important stuff was lost to post production.This!! I think the editing is the problem with this movie. I think they tried to pare it down and ultimately conceded to the money people who wanted the action, not the story. Yes, it made a TON of money, but that's because it is a franchise that is well established. Star Wars sold out to the franchising long ago and that hasn't changed. However, look at the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies. That PROVES you can have a well developed story line and still make billions. I think someone along the way made an executive decision to cut some little pieces that were small details that true fans would thrive on, in favor of action scenes that enamor the next generation and make them customers.
But you're telling me General Solo, the famous pilot in both Death Star battles isn't even mourned by the resistance? He got a medal in the first film, with all the pirating of elements from a new hope we can't have a meaningful service at the end?While I agree and wish they had done a mourning scene for him instead of sending Rey after Luke as an ending to the movie, I'm not convinced the Resistance is the Rebellion. I mean, why did they change their name if they are the same entity? I kind of see them as a new rebellion, the result of Leia and a few others deciding that the Republic isn't doing a good enough job so they are doing what the Republic can't (or won't) do. Either way, even though it is made up of a few of the old school Rebellion, Han wasn't a part of it. His death wasn't in some heroic effort to save the Resistance, it was a personal effort to save his son, the guy who is a part of a group that just killed hundreds of billions of people. Why make him a hero? He's just a smuggler that turned his back on the rest of the Galaxy.
He's just a smuggler that turned his back on the rest of the Galaxy.
QuoteHe's just a smuggler that turned his back on the rest of the Galaxy.
THIS bothers me, I feel like this is completely out of character for the Han I know.
but he ALWAYS came back... I think the biggest problem is that we don't know enough about what happened, which speaks to the utter lack of character development in this script.
I agree with a lot of what this guys says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fapNV7OFYE4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fapNV7OFYE4)
Though I like Kylo Ren better than he does, and hated Carrie Fisher's performance more.
QuoteHe's just a smuggler that turned his back on the rest of the Galaxy.
THIS bothers me, I feel like this is completely out of character for the Han I know.
This is completely 100% in character. He reverted to form to deal with his loss.
I get that, and I know the whole Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo story.Just throw out any knowledge there, the extended universe as we know it is dead and buried now. They didn't even use the kids' names ffs. I mean, why do they have to completely pretend that none of the story was written and marketed as the "OFFICIAL STORY" as sanctioned by Lucasfilm? Frankly, I could have overlooked pretty much everything wrong with the last 4 movies if they had just stuck to, at the minimum, the bones of the story they authorized and endorsed. But this is a dead argument now.. any hope of even using a little of the far superior story in the books is completely gone.
I'm just upset that they played it safe and relied far too heavily on nostalgia and spectacle.
Again the problem for me is the writing. I have a feeling this thing was edited to ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and important stuff was lost to post production.
This, although I have trouble throwing writing (say what you want about JJ: Kasdan was there too) under the bus for editing.
My guess would be that there is a lot of backstory that they couldn't disclose in an efficient manner and folks like us notice the gaps amidst the action. There were quite a few elements that look to be MacGuffins on the screen that I bet were well-plotted on the page. I do think that perhaps they had trouble deciding how to approach Rey as the next Anakin and honestly fumbled the ball because we all hated Anakin in the prequels, so they avoided dealing with it. The whole thing felt like it moved too fast and would have been better handled with an additional hour or two of running time.
The worlds felt lived-in (a big issue for me with the prequels vs originals) and I cared about the characters. I think the casting for Rey and Finn was spot on. Can take or leave Poe (thought he should have been left dead). Fassbender would have been the better choice for Kylo Ren, but Driver did well.
All in all, I enjoyed it and is definitely better than 4 of the previous films. That is no small feat with the most dedicated fandom in history waiting for you to ---fudgesicle--- up.
Anybody who undertakes the task of contributing to that universe has serious intenstinal fortitude and gets a :applaud: from me.
People like me are definitely in the minority... There's whole lots of STAR WARS YEAH AWESOME LOVE IT YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is how it should have ended: First off, when Han dies and Leia feels it, there should have also been a glimpse of a man in robes sitting in a ruined temple (with the mechanical hand so we know it was Luke) who stiffens as if feeling the lightsaber going through his own body, then slumps down as if knowing his failure cost the life of his old friend. At that moment, R2 should come out of his low power mode and start whistling to 3PO, who can't get anyone to pay attention because of the ensuing battle. After the battle settles and people are back and trying to put the pieces back together, 3PO and R2 both finally get the attention of Leia and bring up the map of the galaxy, and instead of a big section that mysteriously nobody recognizes, have the fragment overlay on the known map to show the location of the system Luke was heading to when he first left (which would explain why nobody could recognize the map fragment they had). When Rey returns, she approaches Leia and comforts her, maybe saying a few words about Han's last effort to save their son. Once she says goodbye to Fin, the final scene should be her telling Leia she will send word when she picks up Luke's trail. Then she reassures Leia that she WILL find Luke. Rey and Chewie fly off in the Falcon and enter hyperspace. The end.
It would be reminiscent of the end scene in Empire where Luke was going after Han, and they could open the next movie with Rey, looking like she had spent months searching, finally coming upon the ruins of the temple and finds Luke. It would make it seem like he was actually hard to find and it took both the efforts of the last decade in finding the pieces of the map along with a person strong in the Force searching the right system to find him.
I liked it better the second time as well. Carrie Fisher about took me out of the movie the first time. The second time I thought she was fine. I was too preoccupied to notice Maz Kanata much the first time but she is an awesome character and example of how CGI can add to a movie.Here is how it should have ended: First off, when Han dies and Leia feels it, there should have also been a glimpse of a man in robes sitting in a ruined temple (with the mechanical hand so we know it was Luke) who stiffens as if feeling the lightsaber going through his own body, then slumps down as if knowing his failure cost the life of his old friend. At that moment, R2 should come out of his low power mode and start whistling to 3PO, who can't get anyone to pay attention because of the ensuing battle. After the battle settles and people are back and trying to put the pieces back together, 3PO and R2 both finally get the attention of Leia and bring up the map of the galaxy, and instead of a big section that mysteriously nobody recognizes, have the fragment overlay on the known map to show the location of the system Luke was heading to when he first left (which would explain why nobody could recognize the map fragment they had). When Rey returns, she approaches Leia and comforts her, maybe saying a few words about Han's last effort to save their son. Once she says goodbye to Fin, the final scene should be her telling Leia she will send word when she picks up Luke's trail. Then she reassures Leia that she WILL find Luke. Rey and Chewie fly off in the Falcon and enter hyperspace. The end.
It would be reminiscent of the end scene in Empire where Luke was going after Han, and they could open the next movie with Rey, looking like she had spent months searching, finally coming upon the ruins of the temple and finds Luke. It would make it seem like he was actually hard to find and it took both the efforts of the last decade in finding the pieces of the map along with a person strong in the Force searching the right system to find him.
The ending didn't bother me but I do like your ending. If they wanted to extend the search for Luke into the next movie yours would have worked better.
@dkersten, you should write books or something.I've thought about it... ;)
Everybody take note. This may be the shortest response dkersten has ever written. :D@dkersten, you should write books or something.I've thought about it... ;)
You nerds will complain about anything. The movie was great.
:cheers:
The first twenty minutes is great after that it starts blowing. I can't believe how many of you guys are hypnotized by nostalgia and visuals because short of that there isn't much substance.
Just saw it yesterday. Loved every bit of it.
Very happy with what they did with Rey's character and looking forward to seeing her evolve and develop. Even Fin with his, "OMG, run away!!!!!" attitude was good. Only thing that got under my skin was the big dog fight scene at the end. I was ok with the "blow up the oscillator", but they really shouldn't have had a trench run. That was just silly.
The first twenty minutes is great after that it starts blowing. I can't believe how many of you guys are hypnotized by nostalgia and visuals because short of that there isn't much substance.
I think everyone is just so relieved it doesn't suck like the prequels and therefore can't seem to remove those rose colored spectacles.
The first twenty minutes is great after that it starts blowing. I can't believe how many of you guys are hypnotized by nostalgia and visuals because short of that there isn't much substance.
I am not an idiot... I don't get hypnotized by nostalgia or visuals... if that was a case I would love the prequels and even ROTJ, but I like The Force Awakens better than those 4 movies. Why can't I? I am not here telling you; you are being hyper critical of space saga movie. No you are entitled to your opinion. Let us have ours. :soapbox:
The first twenty minutes is great after that it starts blowing. I can't believe how many of you guys are hypnotized by nostalgia and visuals because short of that there isn't much substance.
I am not an idiot... I don't get hypnotized by nostalgia or visuals... if that was a case I would love the prequels and even ROTJ, but I like The Force Awakens better than those 4 movies. Why can't I? I am not here telling you; you are being hyper critical of space saga movie. No you are entitled to your opinion. Let us have ours. :soapbox:
Totally agree with you Ian. It was a dick thing to say. Basically you either agree with him and the film was an abyssal failure your blind.
I don't think he meant to sound like that much of a jerk. I think he is trying to reason why he doesn't like the movie as much as everyone else. Blaming everyone else, that's easier than realizing you might be overly critical. Star wars isn't this complex theatrical production. It's a space adventure. He sees gaping wide plot holes, and most others are waiting for more backstory. He sees underdeveloped characters and while I don't totally disagree, I see more films coming and realize that character development often ends up on the cutting room floor.
He sees gaping wide plot holes, and most others are waiting for more backstory. He sees underdeveloped characters and while I don't totally disagree, I see more films coming and realize that character development often ends up on the cutting room floor.
ROTJ is light years better the TFA.
However I'm a bit skeptical at this point that we're never going to get any deeper
A main story arc in "Star Wars: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back" is that while the Millennium Falcon is being chased to Lando Calrissian's Cloud City, Luke Skywalker is learning how to be a Jedi from Yoda. Despite a brief detour in a meteor, the Millennium Falcon seems to get to Cloud City in relatively short time, and since the two scenes are linked that also means Skywalker learned how to be a Jedi in an afternoon.
Granted, in point two, it was mentioned that it should take a long time for the Millennium Falcon to travel, but plot holes shouldn't be used to explain away other plot holes. Don't encourage black holes into "Star Wars."
Anyway, Skywalker does abandon the training early to go save his friends, but when he returns in "Star Wars Episode VI: The Return of the Jedi," Yoda tells him he has nothing left to learn and that all he needs to do now to become a Jedi is to defeat Darth Vader. Surely, young Skywalker could have used more training to defeat Vader than the amount of time it took the Millennium Falcon to visit Calrissian. To make it even more clear that it doesn't take long to get to Cloud City, Skywalker then uses his swamped ship to quickly get to his friends to help them. Something doesn't add up here.
Also, this is a side note, but Obi-Wan Kenobi claims he was trained by Yoda in "Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back," but then in the prequels it's clear he is mainly trained by Qui-Gon Jinn. Yoda doesn't really work long hours.
Major Plot Hole: Leia is an emotionless shell of a person. She is given no reaction scene or developed character trauma for any of the following events:
(1) her home planet (not house, not family, not city; PLANET) is destroyed in an unprecedented display of power;
(2) at some point she must realize the man who tortured her and destroyed her planet is her father (Return of the Jedi: she knows she is Luke's brother and that Luke is Vader's son);
(3) she is made into a scantily clad slave-girl by a lascivious, obese alien pervert (insert here: speculations of off-screen violations fit only for Japanese animated porn);
(4) lastly, don't forget the iconic, "wait--what?" revelation of the series: she has kissed her own brother romantically.
The only time she is ever given emotion is upon witnessing Han get frozen in carbonite. Han: the guy who led her on and then didn't even return her "I love you" properly.
While I would have liked another hour of film for me to get stuff that ended up in the recycle bin, I have to recognize that it doesn't need to meet my expectations for story structure and narrative/character arc.
To my mind, the best measure of Episode VII's success is the fact that my youngest walks around the house humming the Imperial March and that my two sons spend hours together in the same room playing Battlefront. Neither had previously shown any significant interest in Star Wars despite my best efforts. :cheers:
It's funny how things like this are much easier to overlook whenthere is a compelling story with compelling charactersyou are 9 years old.
That's fair but there are plenty of things that I loved when I was 9 that don't exactly hold up when watching again years later as an adult. Here's a brief list.
Legend
Labyrinth
The Last Star Fighter
Big Trouble in Little China
Krull
Clash of the Titans (original)
The Dark Crystal
Flash Gordon
Dune
Critters
Short Circuit
ETC ETC ETC
To my mind, the best measure of Episode VII's success is the fact that my youngest walks around the house humming the Imperial March and that my two sons spend hours together in the same room playing Battlefront. Neither had previously shown any significant interest in Star Wars despite my best efforts. :cheers:
Top Gun, though, embarrasses the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of me.
Yeah, I'm gonna hate. I ---smurfing--- LOVED Top Gun as an 8th grader, but as an adult, I realized the dialogue is HORRIBLE. Ugh. I'll just watch the Kenny Loggins video if I ever need a fix.Top Gun, though, embarrasses the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of me.
Meh, I spent two days riding a moped up and down palm tree lined roads in Key West and hummed Highway to the Danger Zone the entire time. Hater.
I think The Last Starfighter has held up just fine.
Top Gun, though, embarrasses the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of me.
There's also a lot of people getting killed in front of the protagonist, which is really rare in a kid's movie.
Top Gun, though, embarrasses the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of me.
Meh, I spent two days riding a moped up and down palm tree lined roads in Key West and hummed Highway to the Danger Zone the entire time. Hater.
With all due respect Locke, most of those plot holes are created by the prequels which are rubbish and we can't fault the OT for their idiocy.
As to why they didn't blow up the planet in their way. Uhhhh........ they had to suck up a star to do it. They only had one to use.
Not saying it was a pure plot..... it wasn't. It was fantasy and should be treated as such.
No interesting/entertaining movie can hold to true or even believable science IMHO.
The time line isn't specified but it's a decent point. Also it's pretty well established in the Star Wars universe that Force Sensitives can do some pretty amazing feats. Anakin, Ezra Bridger, Luke, Ashoka... all were pretty amazing before much if not any training.Don't forget too that over and over they kept marveling at how "lucky" they were getting when she did things.. Clearly she was using the force all along, so it wasn't like she was a newb, just that she didn't realize she was using it.
Therefore I don't have a huge problem with Reys quick mastery, the jedi mind trick was a bit much but it's not a cardinal sin.
The last sentence of the movie is "May the Force be with you," said by Leia to Rey. If that's the case, then it does absolutely pass the Bechdel Test...http://www.syracuse.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/12/star_wars_the_force_awakens_spoilers_7_major_plot_points_in_episode_vii.html (http://www.syracuse.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/12/star_wars_the_force_awakens_spoilers_7_major_plot_points_in_episode_vii.html)
QuoteThe last sentence of the movie is "May the Force be with you," said by Leia to Rey. If that's the case, then it does absolutely pass the Bechdel Test...http://www.syracuse.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/12/star_wars_the_force_awakens_spoilers_7_major_plot_points_in_episode_vii.html (http://www.syracuse.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/12/star_wars_the_force_awakens_spoilers_7_major_plot_points_in_episode_vii.html)
The rest of that stuff? Meh. She's had to fend for herself on a desert planet. Not everyone has a cushy life of gulping down power converters at Toshi station.
guysguyS
Can we start talking about predictions for VIII?
Han Solo becomes Spectre Solo and helps Kylo Ren be the Ben he should have.
Harrison Ford agreed to reprise his role as long as he only had to do one movie. He won't be back.Except it is all over the news that he is signed up for the next one.. might be a cameo, but he is definitely in it.
Harrison Ford agreed to reprise his role as long as he only had to do one movie. He won't be back.Except it is all over the news that he is signed up for the next one.. might be a cameo, but he is definitely in it.
Just saw it. You fuckos are nuts. It was perfectly fine.
And George Lucas needs to shut his pie-hole. He is two for six with this franchise.
And leave Lucas alone. I hope he takes that kajillions he made from the franchise and goes back and makes the deep, personal films he wanted to make back in college.
If he is, you nerds killed him.And leave Lucas alone. I hope he takes that kajillions he made from the franchise and goes back and makes the deep, personal films he wanted to make back in college.
That George Lucas is long dead.
If he is, you nerds killed him.
What George failed to realize is that it was the studio pressure that he hated so much that acted as a perfect catalyst for his greatness.
They reigned him in when he started doing stupid ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and wisely kicked his ass out of the directorial chair of episodes 4 and 5.
No one challenged him on the prequels, and well.... we've got Anakin building C3P0 and Jar Jar Binks stepping in ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.
I'm stating that I hope he takes his money and technology and uses it to become the Filmmaker he wanted to be.
No, him putting his name on the extended universe and even personally approving some of the story arcs (like chewy's death) then turning around a decade later and cashing out on the name by shitting on the fans that got him to where he was is what made hardcore fans hate him. What killed him was insisting that he knew how to write dialogue and producing three movies that never would have made it past "now on dvd" if they hadn't used the Star Wars name. The story he wrote for them was bad enough, but the dialogue is hard to watch, not just bad, but actually makes you squirm in your seat because it is so horrible. It's like awkward humor without the humor, and with half as many words. A five year old could have done better with the script, and that is being generous. Lucas wasn't killed by fans, he committed suicide because his big head couldn't fit through the door but he forced it through anyway. If he had just hired someone with a speck of talent to write the script the movies might have had a redeeming factor...If he is, you nerds killed him.And leave Lucas alone. I hope he takes that kajillions he made from the franchise and goes back and makes the deep, personal films he wanted to make back in college.
That George Lucas is long dead.
Kylo Ren has wild inconsistency in his force power
I got no problem with Rey using the force. Kylo being injured is enough explanation for me.
All that aside I do agree with you that George's downfall as a filmmaker is that he got so big that nobody could give him constructive criticism. If you saw any of Rick McCallum's interviews during the 90's his job seemed to be to both kiss George's ass and promote him as a genius. He got Producer credit for it.
No, him putting his name on the extended universe and even personally approving some of the story arcs (like chewy's death) then turning around a decade later and cashing out on the name by shitting on the fans that got him to where he was is what made hardcore fans hate him. What killed him was insisting that he knew how to write dialogue and producing three movies that never would have made it past "now on dvd" if they hadn't used the Star Wars name. The story he wrote for them was bad enough, but the dialogue is hard to watch, not just bad, but actually makes you squirm in your seat because it is so horrible. It's like awkward humor without the humor, and with half as many words. A five year old could have done better with the script, and that is being generous. Lucas wasn't killed by fans, he committed suicide because his big head couldn't fit through the door but he forced it through anyway. If he had just hired someone with a speck of talent to write the script the movies might have had a redeeming factor...If he is, you nerds killed him.And leave Lucas alone. I hope he takes that kajillions he made from the franchise and goes back and makes the deep, personal films he wanted to make back in college.
That George Lucas is long dead.
Seriously, sit and watch ep 1-3, and the FIRST emotional dialogue comes at the end when Anakin is fighting Obi-wan. That's the first time in the entire trilogy where dialogue flows and feels right for the movies. And the only time.
To say that he would make something with emotion or even to suggest he has any talent whatsoever is a joke, purely and utterly. His only talent lies in branding.. his money came from brands like Star Wars and THX...
All that aside I do agree with you that George's downfall as a filmmaker is that he got so big that nobody could give him constructive criticism. If you saw any of Rick McCallum's interviews during the 90's his job seemed to be to both kiss George's ass and promote him as a genius. He got Producer credit for it.
I too was disappointed but we're definitely in the minority and easily dismissed by the majority of fans who enjoyed the movie.
I've not lost all hope, we'll see how Rouge One goes.... But I have a feeling we're due for more nostalgia driven, Mcguffin laden, Finn bumblin, no sense making eye candy.
easily dismissed by the majority of fans who enjoyed the movie.
Xiaou2, you are the James Joyce of BYOAC.Infidel.
Xiaou2, you are the James Joyce of BYOAC.Infidel.
I'm still coming to terms with the fact that I agree with 98% of what X2 posted.....
LoL. You really are off your rocker.
The DVD should be out in like 2 weeks. Chill.
BOOTLEG IS OUT
BOOTLEG IS OUT
BOOTLEG IS OUT
I'm still coming to terms with the fact that I agree with 98% of what X2 posted.....
April 1st isn't it?BOOTLEG IS OUTThe DVD should be out in like 2 weeks. Chill.
BOOTLEG IS OUT
BOOTLEG IS OUT
Digital release was almost two days ago, noob.
Meh, had a watch party on Friday and we all liked it. I know that dork at RLM made it cool to hate on the movies but move on with your life.