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Main => Everything Else => Topic started by: eds1275 on April 20, 2015, 12:01:15 pm
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So my nephews live one province over, and I've noticed more and more that they are on xbox instead of in school (my phone beeps when my "favourites" are online.) Anyways a few months of this and the old "we missed the school bus" excuse is getting old. Finally this morning I confronted them, and they said that yes, they have pretty much dropped out. It started with missing the bus, and then one thing apparently led to another and they were just watching some television when I happened to interrupt. They grew up where I live now, on the West Coast, but their mom wanted to be with her family and moved them into some tiny hick town in Alberta where there's nothing for teenagers to do but drugs and make babies.
I'm pretty ---smurfing--- choked. One of them is pretty upset that I'm angry, the other one has a "well screw you too" kind of attitude. But I think that it's rage to hide guilt. Their mother has to work 2 jobs back to back (post office clerk and then sleazy truck stop waitress in the evenings) and isn't around to really take care of things. My brother (their father) has moved back to england and sort of got what was coming to him when his apartment exploded with him inside... but that doesn't help the home life of my nephews.
http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/ipswich_flat_explosion_survivor_i_remember_a_wall_of_bright_orange_and_then_i_woke_up_a_week_later_in_a_hospital_bed_1_1234029 (http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/ipswich_flat_explosion_survivor_i_remember_a_wall_of_bright_orange_and_then_i_woke_up_a_week_later_in_a_hospital_bed_1_1234029)
I have one extra bedroom in my house, and have offered it up to either of them. My parents also have one bedroom in their house should both the boys decide to come out. Truth be told they have both had a rough go of it, but I told them that everyone has hardships, and you either suck it up and deal with it or you make excuses and play a victim. I like to think that people are responsible for their own actions and hold them to their choices.
Anyways I don't know if I want to try to help them or throttle them. Can it be both? Anyone else deal with this kind of ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---?
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Eds - This is a very hard situation to be in. I was going to give you examples in my life about how people have succeeded with and without school. But that may not pertain to your nephews. My advice would be (if you want to) to be a part of their lives. As you have said your brother has left and they barely have their mother because she has to provide for them during the day and part of the night. So they feel abandoned. So, you, as a uncle, may just need to be there for them to set them on the right track.
I can't speak for you but even know at 35 I still talk to my parents and ask them for advice. Sometimes it just helps knowing that someone is in your corner and that your nephews have something or someone to fight for.
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I was going to give you examples in my life about how people have succeeded with and without school.
I know that there are people who do fine without school. But it's not the example I want to endorse. Them living a province over is a pain. I'm guessing when their mom is off work she'll be calling me to either yell at me for offering them a different place to live or to seriously consider it.
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sometimes it doesn't matter what you tell them, sometimes they just have to learn on their own. even if it means failing in the process. I know you don't want to see them fail, but consider the following...
They'll have aspirations to become rig workers or gas fitters (as everybody in alberta does) and make big money out in the oil patch and all their problems will be over, but then they will quickly realize that you have to have your high school diploma to even so much as a steward or roustabout, (and only if they were dying for those people, which they aren't) not to mention the schooling you need to actually BECOME those other things and ACTUALLY make good money instead of barely over minimum wage.
but, I digress, Your best bet is to step back and keep your ear to the ground. When things are going sideways AND they realize it, step in with a plan of action THEY can take for themselves that will set them in the right direction.
There are GED equivalent programs for people out there. This may be an eventual option for them.
I dropped out of school in grade 9 to work. well, try to anyways. The kinds of employment I was able to get where barely enough to stay afloat. (and this was 15 years ago too) I was unable to return to a regular school due to works hours. and no work meant no money, which meant no roof over your head.
I ended up doing the rest of my schooling at a co-operative education center after work. (conveniently across the street from where I worked.) It made for long days (7am to 9pm), but the teachers there were very supportive and pushed me to get the education (and experience) i needed to get the post secondary education and certifications that eventually got me where I am today.
I went from stupid kid, minimum wage slave... supplemented by welfare...still somehow not making ends meet.
To today...I have a wife, 3 kids, 3 cars and just signed to buy our first house this last weekend. :cheers:
It's a rough go when you think you know it all and fail, but with the proper supports, it can work out in the end. :burgerking:
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I got divorced 4.5 years ago. My son was 17 at the time. He had become as good of a liar as his mother, which was quite a feat. He started smoking pot (as was popular) which led to the desire for something stronger. This also led to laziness in anything he didn't enjoy doing, school being one of those things. When he learned he missed enough school to not be able to graduate (he was 18 by then) he dropped out. It devastated me. He hadn't been talking to me for quite some time and his mother was the perfect enabler. I am a very straight laced person who chose to never touch drugs, and while I did some dumb things as a kid, I was a relative saint compared to pretty much everyone else while growing up. To choose to drop out of school not because of hardship or lack of opportunity, but rather because it was harshing his buzz, was, in my eyes, inconceivable.
He spent the next year partying and trying new and more powerful drugs. Each evening was a challenge to outdo the evening before. Get more high, get more wasted, party harder, get in crazier fights, and do stupider things. It culminated with him and 2 others breaking into a head shop and doing 12k in damage. They got caught on tape. Facing several felonies, the owner showed leniency and offered a deal: pay the damages and no charges. The other parents pressured me into joining as it was an all or none deal. My son, facing prison for at least a year, seemed to be "playing ball". He accepted my conditions: move to Idaho to live with my brother (get away from influences here), join the military, get his GED, and pay back the money. He got enrolled and had 4 months to kill before basic training.
First he got his GED, which despite not attending his senior year, he passed in one test with 95% and graduated with honors. The test, by the way, is designed so that 33% of high school graduates would fail. You have to know everything from grades 9-12 on the last tests, and it isn't that easy even though a GED is considered inferior to a high school diploma. This, of course, is in the U.S., but I can't imagine it is much different in CA.
He went to live with my brother, who has no kids and wasn't the best influence, but kept him out of trouble for the most part. He came back a couple weeks before deployment and ended up hurting his foot (old break that didn't heal) and had to have surgery with 12 weeks recovery, just before shipping out to Basic Training. The military changes his MOS from what he wanted to do (diesel tech) to something he hated the idea of (filing clerk), but he could still go. However, now back home, he moved in with his mom and soon was back into drugs. Then he got 2 Minor in Possession charges for alcohol (he was 20 by this time) and a pot possession charge. I stepped in again and got the charge deferred, which meant he could still go into the ARMY, as long as he finished his community service and counseling. He moved back in with me but lied about everything and in the end it all went to hell and I kicked him out.
He spiraled down the drain as drug use turned to dealing pot, and then meth. He wound up in jail on a distribution charge, and after a week I sent him a letter talking about our relationship and why I kicked him out of my house, etc. After 10 days in jail, facing another 6 months to a year before the trial (no money for bail), he reached out to me and I helped him again. He was put on a patch to monitor drugs and stayed clean for a year waiting trial. He got a job and I kept him on the straight path, although it wasn't easy and he almost slipped a few times. He is now on probation, been clean for about 15 months, and his hard work earned him a management position at the place he works. In fact, his hard work made enough of an impression on his bosses that they wrote letters to the court and in turn his sentence was reduced to just possession, no distribution. He is making damn good money and pays me rent, is paying me back for the bail and fines (totaling around $10,000 so far and he has paid off $8k of it already), is paying off all the stuff he neglected while on drugs (about $6k), and has a financial plan in place for the next year. He still has a few legal issues to finish serving before he is clear of it all, and after the probation which is another 15 months, he will have no felonies on his record. He has health insurance now and has been seeing a dentist to repair some of the damage from drug use. He is back to working out and trying to get his body back in fighting shape (he enjoys MMA fighting) but he also understands that fighting is a bad idea because it can mean injury, which could hurt his ability to do his job. He worked hard to get where he is (in an incredibly short time) and knows what it would cost him to lose it. Most of all, he is AWARE of what his past choices have done to his life, and sees how he can avoid that in the future.
The point of this story is to say that A) I have been there, and I feel your pain. Hang in there, it will probably get way worse before it gets better, but it DOES get better. B) The thing you have to learn is every person is an individual who will make their own choices. You can't control that no matter how hard you try. However, you can influence them if you try hard enough. Just don't take their failures as your own. And C) You have to just care about the people you care about and let them know, the rest is up to them. The best you can do is try to stay a part of their lives without enabling them and just show them a good example. If they are smart, they will see where their lives are headed and where they could be headed and maybe they will make changes in their own lives as a result.
Most of all, while dropping out of high school does hurt their potential for living a better life and close off a lot of opportunities, it isn't a death sentence. They can recover from it, although that window closes a little more each year.
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Can personally confirm it doesn't always get better.
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I moved my brother's teen daughter in with us for a year trying to help her sort it out. Similar situation from the sound of it. My older sister has done the same with other teens. Inviting a teen that isn't yours into your home is an adventure and it can stress the rest of your relationships. I'm glad Addi came and lived with us, and while I don't think it did any good, for all I know she could have ended up much worse and I at least kept her on a path towards meh.
---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- man, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Doesn't mean you shouldn't lead them tho. Lead them, if they're not thirsty perhaps they'll remember the way to the well when they are.
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Can personally confirm it doesn't always get better.
For the people making the bad decisions like dropping out of school? No, sometimes nothing helps, including hitting bottom, and sometimes they dig themselves so deep of a hole that they can't get out, even if they decide for themselves it is time to change. But for the people who care about those making poor decisions, it will get better. It hurts at first, and it can get worse, but eventually, as with any loss, it will get better. Acceptance of your inability to make good decisions for people you care about is difficult, and the pain they can cause you is as real as any.
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How old are these boys that dropped out and just play video games all day? If they are 16+ they just need to go get a job and a GED, it's a multiple choice exam so just about anyone/everyone will pass it given enough time (I've yet to hear a story of someone needing more than 3 tries except for the most degenerate of crack/meth heads). I especially think they need to be working if there mother is working two jobs to support them, else it sounds like they don't care about anyone but themselves. I say if they can't take these basic steps and are unwilling to move for assistance they don't deserve your help (I.E. they'll not respect your help or appreciate it in any way).
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Anyways I don't know if I want to try to help them or throttle them. Can it be both?
Yes, yes it can.
There's an expression in the south. God gave you two hands for your family, so you have one hand to hold them, and another to knock some sense into them.
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Call the truant officer. I do not say this lightly, but they should be in school, and if they don't go then to juvenile hall or whatever the local alternative.
Don't invite them into your home, unless you know what you are getting into.
Its OK to get mad about it, but in reality kids today do not have a cat in hell's chance to make it in this world, and most likely we will be in a third world war, or scavenging for food after the next huge bubble. If it was me I would call the cops.
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I would have to disagree with calling law enforcement as that usually is a distancing tool and I fail to see how it helps other than making the boys bitter at you. Also, this would be counter intuitive if they've already FDA (failed due to absences) which sounds like a real possibility, why would they even care if it's literally impossible to pass?
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There are very few school systems that I know of that will actually fail you due to absences. If you try to work with them they'll find a way to keep the kids in school.
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I dunno man.
It sounds like you've already went the extra mile. I believe you care because you went to the extent to post here. I think the only other thing you would be to charge them rent as opposed to a free stay. The free stay offers them an opportunity to take advantage you. While it feels good initially, it may invite their trouble to your door.
Tough spot to be in.
I couple of my nephews are knuckle heads, but not to that degree. They were also dealt a ---smurfy--- hand.
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There are very few school systems that I know of that will actually fail you due to absences. If you try to work with them they'll find a way to keep the kids in school.
Quoted for Troof. Dropouts = lost dollars. Maybe their HS system offers alternative programs like online coursework or alternative schools?
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I dunno man.
It sounds like you've already went the extra mile.
I went the extra mile a few years ago when I was dirt-eating broke (moved to an island, all the jobs are taken!) and still made an arcade machine with them.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,113905.msg1209501 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,113905.msg1209501)
I don't think they can be forced back into it. Perhaps guilted, for a while, but I think the key is making them want to be there. I hated school with a fiery vengeance. My first job was teaching kung fu to the lower classes and every big kid thought that was a challenge, so I was always being pushed into fighting and getting in trouble for it. However I knew that it was a big stepping stone that would pass and so I powered through it. The GED courses and stuff are fine for the educational value (I think most of the crap taught in schools is useless knowledge and the whole system needs an overhaul.) In my opinion the most important part of school is learning that people are ---uvulas--- and you have to deal with it to an extent.
If one of them does end up with me it's not a free ride. I will make them pay.
Quoted for Troof. Dropouts = lost dollars. Maybe their HS system offers alternative programs like online coursework or alternative schools?
I'm pretty sure their school in a converted barn, and the teacher a toothless, straw chewing old man wearing nothing but a straw hat and overalls holding a bible in one hand and a textbook in the other. It's not a religious school, but they say there's an awful lot of religious stuff happening there... and they are in the middle of nowhere
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There are very few school systems that I know of that will actually fail you due to absences. If you try to work with them they'll find a way to keep the kids in school.
Ours has a policy: over 10 absences in a semester and regardless of your grades, you fail automatically. The reason is they don't get the funding if they aren't actually there, although the "official" reason is because they don't think the kid is learning enough if he isn't there, and it is unfair to students later who have to be in a class where the teacher is spending extra time with that kid to get them caught up.
There is a one time chance where if you miss that many you can sign a contract with the dean where you get credit for the semester if the next semester you miss less than 6 days.
Personally, I think it is a really bad policy, after all it was the nudge that pushed my son to drop out. If they hadn't removed those credits, he would have graduated with a B average, on time, despite all the missed classes. He would have had to retake his entire senior year as well as do summer school, despite only failing 1 class academically.
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I'm not saying I am a math wizard, but high school math was really easy for me. I was told beginning of semester that tests were worth 75% of the grade. I skipped every class but the tests and got like 72% overall, but was failed due to "attendance." I think this was grade 9 or 10. Nonsense.
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When my youngest daughter was a senior in high school, she would skip a lot and they threatened the fail for "unexcused absences", but she was the same would show up on test days and easily pass all the tests. At the time they had a phone system that would call us and leave a message if she had any absences, of course she was home before us and would delete them off the answering machine, but we could also call into the system and check up on her which we ended up doing everyday, and used the automated system to "excuse" her absences so she ended up passing what she needed to and graduating. Not sure that would work now, but we figured that as long as she could pass the tests why not, and she was 18 before her senior year so there wasn't a lot we could do to force her to be there.
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I don't think they can be forced back into it. Perhaps guilted, for a while, but I think the key is making them want to be there.
Sometimes you have to exert your authority and even call the sheriff or truancy officer to put some fear into them.
And I am not sure you can make any kid want to be in school. It is rare for a kid to actually like it. If you can't maintain authority over them, the trick (imho) would be to show them the consequences of not graduating. Of course, kids don't really believe in consequences, they are immortal and these days have a massive sense of entitlement, so in their minds nothing bad can happen to them and they will end up making all the money in the world with or without an education because people owe them that much...
In my case, I believe my son's turning point was when he realized just how much his actions had screwed up his life. The final nail was driven home when he was sitting in jail on a traffic violation and the drug dealers he used to work with were being transported to the federal prison by a DEA agent that was also one of the people in his group (undercover). If he hadn't been picked up on a random search a few months before, he would have been with those guys waiting for transport to federal prison for 10 years.
Until a kid's eyes are opened up by something that shakes their life up, they aren't going to change their path, so you just have to exert authority where you can and do your best to keep them on the right path. When they are supporting themselves and their own decisions each have consequences they feel, they will look back and realize you kept them on that path for a reason, but until then, they just think you're an ---uvula---.
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In Florida when I was in school it was (and still is) the opposite, homework was 50-70% of the grade. This state goes on a scale grading the schools which dictates how much funding they get so it is very important for the school to be an "A grade" school.
I'm not saying I am a math wizard, but high school math was really easy for me. I was told beginning of semester that tests were worth 75% of the grade. I skipped every class but the tests and got like 72% overall, but was failed due to "attendance." I think this was grade 9 or 10. Nonsense.
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I'm not saying I am a math wizard, but high school math was really easy for me. I was told beginning of semester that tests were worth 75% of the grade. I skipped every class but the tests and got like 72% overall, but was failed due to "attendance." I think this was grade 9 or 10. Nonsense.
That "class participation" crap goes on in grad school, too, I'm sorry to say.
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Such ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. But those are the rules, and although I didn't play by them I sure expect my nephews to do it. At their age I had skills - I could use tools, weld, drive, some programming, some drafting, I read for pleasure, could play several musical instruments. They... can play video games. They can barely spell (I have high standards for spelling, and I think it's becoming less and less important in school.)
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Edit: since this comment brought nothing to the table, I'm removing it. Good luck, OP.
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No, no, share your nuanced opinions about various races, ethnicities, cultural norms, and their respective influences on the high school experience.
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We all have opinions, shouldn't you share yours with reasoning behind it seeing as you have 19 years (at minimum) in the education field? Otherwise why even bring that up? :dunno
As someone who has been working in high schools for the past 19 years, been involved with education since he was 20, and who over the years through observation and experience has definite opinions on this stuff......
....... I'm keeping my mouth shut. :cheers:
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We all have opinions, shouldn't you share yours with reasoning behind it seeing as you have 19 years (at minimum) in the education field? Otherwise why even bring that up? :dunno
Because I don't feel like Internet fighting today. Nobody wins.
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I think what Yots meant to say was he has been watching school yards from the field for the past 19 years. :lol
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We all have opinions, shouldn't you share yours with reasoning behind it seeing as you have 19 years (at minimum) in the education field? Otherwise why even bring that up? :dunno
Because I don't feel like Internet fighting today. Nobody wins.
SCHOOL IS THE BEST EVERYONE GO TO SCHOOL, GET A DEGREE IN SOMETHING THAT IS ONLY USEFUL IF YOU WANT TO END UP TEACHING IT IN SCHOOL
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Someone in the educational field who doesn't want to debate their opinion with logic, reason and facts after practically inviting it...I'm shocked :laugh2:
We all have opinions, shouldn't you share yours with reasoning behind it seeing as you have 19 years (at minimum) in the education field? Otherwise why even bring that up? :dunno
Because I don't feel like Internet fighting today. Nobody wins.
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Eh, go with the Bill and Ted method. Send them to military academy in Alaska.
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Someone in the educational field who doesn't want to debate their opinion with logic, reason and facts after practically inviting it...I'm shocked :laugh2:
That's all the proof you need, homes.
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SCHOOL IS THE BEST EVERYONE GO TO SCHOOL, GET A DEGREE IN SOMETHING THAT IS ONLY USEFUL IF YOU WANT TO END UP TEACHING IT IN SCHOOL
I disagree. College isn't for everyone.
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Waltzing in and announcing you aren't going to say anything is one way to pull this off topic. If you've got nothing to say, then stop talking please.
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Waltzing in and announcing you aren't going to say anything is one way to pull this off topic. If you've got nothing to say, then stop talking please.
Agreed. But let me say I do commend you for getting involved. I've been biting my tongue because of some other comments made by others, but I think you're doing the right thing and I wish you luck.
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:cheers:
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You hear back either way from their mother on your offer?
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Fair enough, you're reasoning is your own so sorry to start a derail.
Someone in the educational field who doesn't want to debate their opinion with logic, reason and facts after practically inviting it...I'm shocked :laugh2:
That's all the proof you need, homes.
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Fair enough, you're reasoning is your own so sorry to start a derail.
Someone in the educational field who doesn't want to debate their opinion with logic, reason and facts after practically inviting it...I'm shocked :laugh2:
That's all the proof you need, homes.
:cheers:
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You hear back either way from their mother on your offer?
Not yet. Their mother is special... She might be angry at me. I think she might wait out the school year, send them out for the summer, and not ask for them back. She may just be thinking about it... Who knows.
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Looking from the outside, I get the impression your nephews look up to you quite a bit. Even if it is a summer thing, I think you have enough cool interests that something has to spark with them if you can get them to come over for at least a few weeks. Maybe toe the line where you can crack into another awesome project with them as long as they don't fail out of school. They might respond to that. :dunno If they are really in hillbilly hell, then there might be enough incentive alone that they can get out of town during the summer if they pass at school.
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We all have opinions, shouldn't you share yours with reasoning behind it seeing as you have 19 years (at minimum) in the education field? Otherwise why even bring that up? :dunno
Because I don't feel like Internet fighting today. Nobody wins.
You seem to like to piss on my threads, why not here? ::)
Looking from the outside, I get the impression your nephews look up to you quite a bit. Even if it is a summer thing, I think you have enough cool interests that something has to spark with them if you can get them to come over for at least a few weeks. Maybe toe the line where you can crack into another awesome project with them as long as they don't fail out of school. They might respond to that. :dunno If they are really in hillbilly hell, then there might be enough incentive alone that they can get out of town during the summer if they pass at school.
This could work, if you make it an incentive.
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Heya Ed,
First, Props to you for looking out for them. So many people are so wrapped up in themselves... and cant even be bothered to help... even if asked directly.
Some of the Harsh words said in reply here, sadden me greatly. It shows lack of compassion, empathy, understanding, patience and care.
Condensed:
- Mother : Mentally Abusive. Hate, anger, manipulative, ... and Neglectful. No attention nor affection was given.
- Father : Physically and Mentally abusive. A true terror, that I was lucky to survive.
- Poverty : Not even an Atari... until like 1mo. from non-production. Few toys. Not much to eat. Few clothes, many stained, ripped, and or way too small.
- Bullied and made fun of at school. No friends till maybe 8th grade... in a different school.
- Bullied at the Appt. complex we were living at.
- Spent most of my youth, hating myself, poverty, parents, and suicide was a consideration...
- Had no motivation or drive. Almost always tired. Hard time concentrating. Was slow mentally, compared to the other kids.
- Was weak and clumsy. Always picked last in gym. Always made fun of, and or railed for my lackings in coordination.
- Dropped out of School in the middle of 10th grade... due to huge conflict with Mother.
- Video games may have been one of the few reasons why I made it this far. They took my mind away from the pain and suffering I was going through on a daily basis.
- Years of neglect and abuse, and a loveless life... led to years of intolerable loneliness... creating repeating cycles of heavy Depression that lasted almost into my 30s. Feeling so empty and alone... that it was like I had a hole inside my heart. It burned as if it was on fire. Id get weeks of it, put a bandaid over it.... and keep moving on... but it would always rip back open again.
- It also created a lack of confidence and self worth. Hence, when I did get into negative relationships... I stuck with them... because I felt that was all I really deserved...
It took years of self repair to try to Undo the damages that were impressed into me as a child, from my father.
First, to become aware of my issues... and next, to try to find a way to get past them.
I was deeply hurting internally, as a result of neglect, as well as not having a single shred of Love in my home life. All I got was pushed around and abused.
My only inspiration, was my Grandfather.. but we only saw him on some of the Holidays. He would drop everything, and say hello to us Kids. He would pay full attention to us, tease us, play games, ask us how we were, give us warmth and love... and no matter what negative things mother said to him about our past Naughty behaviors... he didnt judge nor change his feelings about us.
He was everything they were not. Kind, Patient, Hard to anger, never used curse words, always put others before himself, generous, respectful, a deep thinker, quick to forgive, didnt pre-judge others... nor make negative assumptions. He was a great listener. A problem solver, and conflict resolver. If you upset him... he would set you straight sternly... but then would still hug you and forgive you shortly after. If only I could have had him as a father...
Anyways... even with his influence.. it took a long time before I was able to approach his inner qualities.
***
As a kid in such a place... I didnt see past my own nose. I was living inside a dark tornado... blind to most everyone, and everything... as most all of my consciousness was Internal. Internally feeling horrible. Sorry for myself. Hate for myself and my life. Anger for being brought into this world. Pain & Suffering. Nightly Nightmares that could be made into horror movies that would be Banned from being shown in Theaters.. Reliving negative past experiences. Feeling bitterness, having Jealousy.
Any attempt to impress importance of school was fully lost to me. I didnt think Id even live past to graduation, let alone find a job in the 'Real World'. Id figured Id just be a dishwasher at best... my full life. I simply didnt care about anything. Felt things were completely hopeless. And so I gave up. Didnt even really try. No amount of force and stern words.. nor stern actions... would have changed my ways. It only would have made me worse... which is exactly what happened.
At the Age of 16, mother got me a job washing dishes at her workplace. It kind of helped to turn me around even more... because I now had the money to buy nice clothing... and since I felt better about myself, I looked happier and reacted better towards others. I actually started to made more friendly relationships... but then, we had to move...
due to mother divorcing step father...
The story is far too long to fully get into... but the point basically boils down to the fact... that until I was strong enough internally... there was no hope whatsoever. I needed most... someone to give some love and attention... and some guidance that wasnt too harsh, too judgmental, too overbearing. I needed Positive reinforcement. Some experience. And some time to fix my internals... so that anything would even remotely start to be heard.
Remember that change is a long and slow process, in humans. So despite your care and concern, remember to be patient... and so try to disconnect failures or lack of progression, from your emotions.
A Buddhist main principle, is that one should realize that mankind's Suffering, comes from Attachments. From expectations. If you are expect (emotionally attached) a certain result... and it does not come to pass... then you will cause your own suffering. However... if you remain kind of detached... you can accept whatever results that follow.
All that said.. I do know that I, as well as most... could have used a far better wake-up call about the "future to be". But the schools... and even parents... rarely make these things that clear. For example... young children often do not understand the real value of money... where it comes from... how hard it is to earn it... and the monotony of the daily grind. If a physical lesson is provided in a very realistic way... It could very well lead to far better choices, as well as better parent to child relationships. Also, many kids are a bit spoiled in some ways... in that many things are given easily to them. Many come to expect this level of treatment. Expect to be saved when they fall. And parents fall into the trap of thinking Love is giving kids everything they ask for ... and or saving them from every negative circumstance they have gotten into. Basically, creating a helpless, self-centered, careless, adult-baby.
None of this stuff is easy. And most of success in life, is overcoming ones Internal battles.
Ed, I sincerely wish you and yours, the best of luck in overcoming these challenges.
Admiration and Respect,
Steve
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That explains it.
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That explains it.
Funny enough, I was at a Managers meeting for Namco's Time-Out Arcades. I sat amongst a table of like 10 managers.
They got to the issue of Hiring. A bunch of them started spewing things about how nobody should hire dropouts... unless theres a GED.
Said that they just wouldnt be willing to work hard, could be thugs, thieves, and other stupid crap.
Funny thing is that the DM whom hired me told me he wasnt supposed to hire, for that company policy. I was already Managing an Ice Cream shop in the mall. I told him, to prove myself, Id work from the bottom level employee upwards... but only with true intent to promote. He hired me, and I was promoted twice.. making manager in under 3 months of training.
I voiced my opinions to said table... of their idiocy. That many whom have dropped out, may need the job more so than the others... and whom may be willing to work harder than the rest.
Funny thing is... one story they told, was that of a "Diploma'd" Manager, whom was recently fired for selling tokens and pocketing the money... among other crooked things. I think he even found a way to steal the deposit money as well.
While I do not advise people to drop out... It should never be a statement of whom they are.
Quite frankly, most of school's memorized knowledge is utterly Useless... and many people cant even remember the stuff, even a few years after, let alone a few months after getting out.
Schooling doesnt prove character, drive, adaptability, attitude, nor work ethic. It barely teaches you the ability to "Think" for oneself.
But, because so many people are so Judgmental... its best to have the degree, else some zombie clown, will try to hold you down.
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Nobody liked high school. If you can't force yourself to sit through it and get the piece of paper, why would I think you'd do the job I'm paying you for?
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Schooling doesnt prove character, drive, adaptability, attitude, nor work ethic. It barely teaches you the ability to "Think" for oneself.
But, because so many people are so Judgmental... its best to have the degree, else some zombie clown, will try to hold you down.
The thing is, if you're an employer and you have to pick from a selection of applicants, you don't have much to go by other than credentials and references. And in the former department, if a person cannot even finish high school, are they someone I would want to hire?
Having a diploma demonstrates that a person can at least finish something, is probably trainable, and likely does not have the types of issues that leads one to dropping out. Doesn't automatically mean they are going to be a good employee, but it does cut down on the perceived risk.
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Schooling doesnt prove character, drive, adaptability, attitude, nor work ethic. It barely teaches you the ability to "Think" for oneself.
But, because so many people are so Judgmental... its best to have the degree, else some zombie clown, will try to hold you down.
The thing is, if you're an employer and you have to pick from a selection of applicants, you don't have much to go by other than credentials and references. And in the former department, if a person cannot even finish high school, are they someone I would want to hire?
Having a diploma demonstrates that a person can at least finish something, is probably trainable, and likely does not have the types of issues that leads one to dropping out. Doesn't automatically mean they are going to be a good employee, but it does cut down on the perceived risk.
You would think so right? I interview graduates and hire those without degrees (but have certifications) as I find those without degrees are harder working than self centred college graduates. Also if you are 16 and hate High School, then you should get your GED and get a job or enlist in the military. The latter would be beneficial to the OP and his charges.
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Also if you are 16 and hate High School, then you should get your GED and get a job or enlist in the military. The latter would be beneficial to the OP and his charges.
Trust me, as an US Army Officer who liaises regularly with my Canadian counterparts I can safely assure you that neither military is interested in GED/equivalent enlistees.
While enlistment standards may have been relaxed in years past due to operational necessity this is no longer the case and enlistment goals are being met with well qualified motivated individuals who have the requisite educational background.
I am sure that anyone with sufficient drive, motivation, and desire can make it without a paper education. I am also sure that the military isn't interested in being the springboard for those who couldn't really hack highschool. The days of "go to war or go to jail" are thankfully over. Military service shouldn't be a back up plan, and anyone interested in military service would do well to try and accomplish all they can in the classroom prior to enlisting/commissioning to ensure that they are of greatest use to their chosen service.
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Sure, sure, but the military sure does a hell of a lot of recruitment from small towns and territories where the locals don't have many options. My high school made every damn one of us take the ASVAB.
Gets selective if you want to do anything besides be a human shield but let's not pretend they're only accepting college graduates.
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Sure, sure, but the military sure does a hell of a lot of recruitment from small towns and territories where the locals don't have many options. My high school made every damn one of us take the ASVAB.
Gets selective if you want to do anything besides be a human shield but let's not pretend they're only accepting college graduates.
That's fair, I'd be interested to know if the old HS Alma mater is still requiring the same. And while the services do still technically accept HS diploma equivalency the slots of such are dwindling rapidly. Any current serving US Soldier that has a GED but no additional education is very likely to be administratively separated during the next force reduction cut.
To limit the derail all I'm saying is that if these kids have an inkling of interest in serving their country (or another country found due south of them) they need to stay in school to have any sort of real career.
I think looking into trade programs might be a good alternative, I have some local friends who are fitters that earn close to what I do. While the work isn't easy it is in high demand and they enjoy it. Ditto some of the electricians I know. There's something to be said about the apprenticeship programs that are out there.
Also, you said human shield and I couldn't help picturing South Park the movie. Lulz.
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Also if you are 16 and hate High School, then you should get your GED and get a job or enlist in the military. The latter would be beneficial to the OP and his charges.
U.S. Army takes something like 6% GED's (the rest need high school diplomas), Air Force takes about the same, Marines and Navy take 1-2%. Unless you can score crazy high on your tests, you aren't getting in with a GED. Besides, nearly every high school dropout is trying to get away from authority, not add more to their lives.
That being said, if something happens in your life and you make some bad decisions and end up dropping out of high school, then do whatever you can to get your GED and if you can swing military, it will give you a better leg up than any other option available. Just goes to show you how much more difficult you have made your life, and each option after your choice to drop out will require more and more work.
There are always exceptions. The one thing I feel I was successful in as a father to my son was teaching him a good work ethic, and as soon as he pulled his head out of his ass and started applying that work ethic, he was suddenly an invaluable employee in what started as a minimum wage job. Now he is a manager of that establishment (after a year) and the owner is looking to make him the youngest general manager in that organization (opening a new location soon and putting him in charge) with a salary of 62k per year. He got there purely on the basis of working hard and doing what needed to be done, even if he wasn't getting paid to go the extra mile. 14 months after getting the job and now a few months after being made manager, his biggest gripe is the laziness of his employees and their willingness to get by doing as little work as possible.
The degree will get you in the door, but it is your work ethic that will keep you there and get you promotions. If you don't have that degree, then you better know someone because business is all about people, and getting a good job is all about who you know. If you don't know people, then be prepared to start at the bottom and put on a smile for getting a job doing the sh*t detail..
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Schooling doesnt prove character, drive, adaptability, attitude, nor work ethic. It barely teaches you the ability to "Think" for oneself.
But, because so many people are so Judgmental... its best to have the degree, else some zombie clown, will try to hold you down.
The thing is, if you're an employer and you have to pick from a selection of applicants, you don't have much to go by other than credentials and references. And in the former department, if a person cannot even finish high school, are they someone I would want to hire?
Having a diploma demonstrates that a person can at least finish something, is probably trainable, and likely does not have the types of issues that leads one to dropping out. Doesn't automatically mean they are going to be a good employee, but it does cut down on the perceived risk.
Actually, it doesnt prove that. People cheat in school all the time.. as well as teachers passing students... even though they didnt deserve to pass.
Yes, Ive had to start out at the bottom many times. And Ive worked my tail off to do the best I could. As such, I have a long list of shining references, both on the job... as well as good personal relationships outside of work... and that counts a Lot for what people see on paper.
They see a friendly guy with a nice smile... who can communicate professionally. Whos responsible and a hard worker. Who gets along fine with his co-workers. Who often goes the extra mile, to do things right / on schedule. Who dresses appropriately, has good hygiene, and is effectively early for any interview.
While some do put on a good show... generally you can also read a persons expressions, body language, and even in their pace & tone of voice... to be able to tell what kind of person you are dealing with... in regards to work ethic.
Dropping out for me, wasnt because I didnt want to complete. It was because of hell in the homestead. Everyone has their reasons... and we shouldnt make assumptions. I personally tell them my situation. People are pretty understanding.
As Dkersten said, it can be about whom ya know as well. Doesnt matter even if you are far more qualified than the next joe... if that said joe is a good friend of the boss.. you may be denied your spot.
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If life has settled down, why not get the GED now?
???
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Having a diploma demonstrates that a person can at least finish something, is probably trainable, and likely does not have the types of issues that leads one to dropping out. Doesn't automatically mean they are going to be a good employee, but it does cut down on the perceived risk.
Actually, it doesnt prove that. People cheat in school all the time.. as well as teachers passing students... even though they didnt deserve to pass.
Cheating in one class to pass it. Easily doable. Cheating to get through all your classes to graduate. Unlikely.
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Life is all about generalizations. This is where stereotypes come from, and while some people get offended when they are stereotyped, it is usually because they fit the bill all too well. When you don't know someone, you generalize, and odds are good you will be correct. Employers seldom want to risk their company on the long odds.
Anyone can come up with exceptional cases, and unfortunately when people make bad choices they are often thinking about being an exception and not being like everyone else who made that bad choice. Everyone wants to think they can do things later if they put their mind to it. But a high school graduate didn't wait until later, they just did what had to be done. That makes them (in general) better employees.
Nothing made me more angry than when my son's brand new step father told him, in a meeting with all his teachers, that not all dropouts turn into failures. He used himself as an example. Of course, he is now serving 15 years for trying to kill his wife (my ex, ie my son's mother).
I realize this is probably not what Ed wants to hear, but perhaps he can use this kind of info to help motivate his nephews into putting in the effort to lay a better foundation for their lives..
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Schooling doesnt prove character, drive, adaptability, attitude, nor work ethic. It barely teaches you the ability to "Think" for oneself.
But, because so many people are so Judgmental... its best to have the degree, else some zombie clown, will try to hold you down.
The thing is, if you're an employer and you have to pick from a selection of applicants, you don't have much to go by other than credentials and references. And in the former department, if a person cannot even finish high school, are they someone I would want to hire?
Having a diploma demonstrates that a person can at least finish something, is probably trainable, and likely does not have the types of issues that leads one to dropping out. Doesn't automatically mean they are going to be a good employee, but it does cut down on the perceived risk.
Actually, it doesnt prove that. People cheat in school all the time.. as well as teachers passing students... even though they didnt deserve to pass.
It's about averages. A person who graduates high school is less likely to have the issues that a dropout might. For example, there are correlations between things like crime and substance abuse among dropouts. This doesn't mean every single high school graduate will be a great employee or every dropout is a drug using criminal, but one reduces the statistical risk by hiring accordingly.
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Hey, I'm a high school drop out and I turned out just fine ;D
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Also if you are 16 and hate High School, then you should get your GED and get a job or enlist in the military. The latter would be beneficial to the OP and his charges.
Trust me, as an US Army Officer who liaises regularly with my Canadian counterparts I can safely assure you that neither military is interested in GED/equivalent enlistees.
While enlistment standards may have been relaxed in years past due to operational necessity this is no longer the case and enlistment goals are being met with well qualified motivated individuals who have the requisite educational background.
I am sure that anyone with sufficient drive, motivation, and desire can make it without a paper education. I am also sure that the military isn't interested in being the springboard for those who couldn't really hack highschool. The days of "go to war or go to jail" are thankfully over. Military service shouldn't be a back up plan, and anyone interested in military service would do well to try and accomplish all they can in the classroom prior to enlisting/commissioning to ensure that they are of greatest use to their chosen service.
Probably one of the reasons why I didn't opt for OTS at the time. Most likely that will change in the next two years when they raise the OTS entry at 50+. We should have boots on the ground in Syria when the next guy is sworn in.