The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Monitor/Video Forum => Topic started by: EMDB on January 14, 2015, 04:46:51 pm
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The ultimate arcade monitor if you can't or won't use a CRT?
(http://www.eizo.co.jp/products/lcd/ev2730q/product_photo_02.png)
http://www.eizoglobal.com/products/flexscan/ev2730q/index.html (http://www.eizoglobal.com/products/flexscan/ev2730q/index.html)
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I wonder how much it will cost, but it will probably be in the $500-$1000 range.
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That's quite the surprise. I'd love to have two of these on my desk at work.
I'm I reading it right that this is a 1:1 ratio as opposed to 4:3? Will that create different issues for emulation?
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you need dual link DVI for 60fps?
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That's quite the surprise. I'd love to have two of these on my desk at work.
I'm I reading it right that this is a 1:1 ratio as opposed to 4:3? Will that create different issues for emulation?
19" playfield with active bezel, not that is a thing yet, but could be. Imagine a world where your MAME cab supports active bezels, you select Donkey Kong, Mario chases Donkey Kong around the monitor as pictured on the bezel, but with active bezels, its an animated image.
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That's quite the surprise. I'd love to have two of these on my desk at work.
I'm I reading it right that this is a 1:1 ratio as opposed to 4:3? Will that create different issues for emulation?
19" playfield with active bezel, not that is a thing yet, but could be. Imagine a world where your MAME cab supports active bezels, you select Donkey Kong, Mario chases Donkey Kong around the monitor as pictured on the bezel, but with active bezels, its an animated image.
That would one up that Blip cabinet. ;D That would be cool, now if it only wasn't 30 years since I last coded..
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That's quite the surprise. I'd love to have two of these on my desk at work.
I'm I reading it right that this is a 1:1 ratio as opposed to 4:3? Will that create different issues for emulation?
19" playfield with active bezel, not that is a thing yet, but could be. Imagine a world where your MAME cab supports active bezels, you select Donkey Kong, Mario chases Donkey Kong around the monitor as pictured on the bezel, but with active bezels, its an animated image.
I don't want to live in that world.
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That's quite the surprise. I'd love to have two of these on my desk at work.
I'm I reading it right that this is a 1:1 ratio as opposed to 4:3? Will that create different issues for emulation?
19" playfield with active bezel, not that is a thing yet, but could be. Imagine a world where your MAME cab supports active bezels, you select Donkey Kong, Mario chases Donkey Kong around the monitor as pictured on the bezel, but with active bezels, its an animated image.
I don't want to live in that world.
Get the jello, you are harsh'n my mellow...
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That's quite the surprise. I'd love to have two of these on my desk at work.
I'm I reading it right that this is a 1:1 ratio as opposed to 4:3? Will that create different issues for emulation?
19" playfield with active bezel, not that is a thing yet, but could be. Imagine a world where your MAME cab supports active bezels, you select Donkey Kong, Mario chases Donkey Kong around the monitor as pictured on the bezel, but with active bezels, its an animated image.
I don't want to live in that world.
Get the jello, you are harsh'n my mellow...
:cheers:
I'm cool with a digital static bezel. I don't need extra stuff going on while I'm playing. But if you can figure out how to do it, do it!
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I'm really excited about this monitor. Some smoked glass and some settings and then presto, the right orientation fills the space. I have a cocktail project in the queue and really want to use one of these if the viewing angle supports it. I hate cocktails with CPs on three sides and don't want to waste space rotating.
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for those with stupid deep pockets that can't wait: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001730 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001730)
4 inches smaller and ONLY $2k.
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you need dual link DVI for 60fps?
It's a limitation of the cable and might not be required for lower resolutions. Current DVI and HDMI cables can only handle 30fps at 4k resolution.
Some very high end equipment uses dual hdmi cables to get to 60. This is why I won't touch any 4k equipment until some new standard for cables is set. (hopefully one without all the "handshaking" issues)
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I can buy it in the Netherlands for €1500,- which is about $1700,- :angry:
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I sure hope it will be less than $1700 here in the states!
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Without G-Sync or Adaptive Sync, it's useless as an emulator monitor to me.
It is an interesting curiosity though.
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I took a look at the G-Sync / Adaptive Sync monitors available or announced, and the pickings are slim. Here's what I found:
(http://www.cstone.net/~dk/gameingmons.JPG)
I removed the 1080p monitors from the list as I'm not interested in those. Of the ones left, the Asus / BenQ models with 2560 x 1440 looks the most flexible in being able to handle vertical and horizontal games, given their vertical rez.
I currently have a Seiko 4k 39" monitor on my main rig, and it does MAME fairly well, but only does 30Hz at 4k (no HDMI 2.0), so it would not be suited for other games and I have not tried turning it sideways. Besides, it would be too big for the cabinet I'm building anyways.
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Without G-Sync or Adaptive Sync, it's useless as an emulator monitor to me.
As soon as mame officially supports it, I will worry about g-sync in mame. By that time, there will be holographic displays though, so I don't sweat it too much.
For work environments as well as emulators this format would be awesome. I would do 3 of these in a second to replace my 2 27's at work.. way better layout than 16:9.
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Without G-Sync or Adaptive Sync, it's useless as an emulator monitor to me.
As soon as mame officially supports it, I will worry about g-sync in mame.
It doesn't really have anything to do with MAME, so you'll be waiting a long time. :)
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Side topic on the g-sync... it sounds like free sync is whats up accomplishing the same goal while being royalty free.
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/accessories/pc-monitors/1402471/amd-freesync-vs-nvidia-g-sync-the-adaptive-sync-battle (http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/accessories/pc-monitors/1402471/amd-freesync-vs-nvidia-g-sync-the-adaptive-sync-battle)
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Without G-Sync or Adaptive Sync, it's useless as an emulator monitor to me.
As soon as mame officially supports it, I will worry about g-sync in mame. By that time, there will be holographic displays though, so I don't sweat it too much.
For work environments as well as emulators this format would be awesome. I would do 3 of these in a second to replace my 2 27's at work.. way better layout than 16:9.
MAME's always worked with G-Sync monitors. I have the Acer 4k G-Sync monitor in an arcade cabinet. It runs R-Type at 55hz perfectly.
What are you talking about?
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Side topic on the g-sync... it sounds like free sync is whats up accomplishing the same goal while being royalty free.
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/accessories/pc-monitors/1402471/amd-freesync-vs-nvidia-g-sync-the-adaptive-sync-battle (http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/accessories/pc-monitors/1402471/amd-freesync-vs-nvidia-g-sync-the-adaptive-sync-battle)
Maybe, but since no real human has one in hand, we just don't know. It might have some problems that won't surface until someone like us buys one. AMD has been notorious for ---smurfing--- these things up, so it wouldn't surprise me if it has some huge flaw that makes it useless.
Regardless, we do need an open standard for this. I'm sick of fixed refresh monitors. They stink.
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Side topic on the g-sync... it sounds like free sync is whats up accomplishing the same goal while being royalty free.
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/accessories/pc-monitors/1402471/amd-freesync-vs-nvidia-g-sync-the-adaptive-sync-battle (http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/accessories/pc-monitors/1402471/amd-freesync-vs-nvidia-g-sync-the-adaptive-sync-battle)
VESA added Adaptive-Sync to the display port 1.2a standard. That'll be the new standard so both G-sync and Free sync are, effectively, dead.
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The problem with Adaptive Sync is that it's a very loose spec that could be implemented 100 different ways.
We know G-Sync works. G-Sync isn't dead until Adaptive Sync 1) works on Nvidia cards and 2) is proven to be as good as G-Sync.
I have absolutely 0 faith in any electronics company. I won't believe that a solution works until I see it for myself.
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Just because it is added to the standard doesn't mean it will be implemented, just that the standard supports it. Freesync might work out great if they can bypass the added lag and if they can get monitor manufacturers to actually build monitors that support it, but then you also have to have a compatible card, and NVidia will never make a compatible card, at least not as long as g-sync is out. So there goes 50% of the gaming market. It will be interesting to see where things land, but until things are out on the market and tested I will withhold my opinion in that regard.
All I know is I am not going to drop $800 for a 28" arcade monitor that plays vertical games on an effectively 20" screen. But then I am not anal about pac-man and DK.
On the other hand, dropping $600 for a 27" g-sync is worth it for high resolution, high framerate games, at least to me. Lately G-sync hasn't done a single thing for the program I have been spending 5-8 hours per day on (at home)... Microsoft Word. I'm still happy with my purchase...
Bulbous, I saw some posts you made in other forums, bitching about the unreliability and glitchiness of g-sync. But I suppose you have to justify your purchase of not one, not two, but THREE $800+ displays to play 240 line resolution video games. To each their own, I am just as guilty of spending money on my arcade as anyone here... Well, maybe not to that extent, but you know what I mean.
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I'm fine playing Pac-Man on a 20" 4:3 I picked up for $25 from Arrow. I don't play HD Street Fighter or any other high resolution, high framerate on my arcade cabs, so it's never an issue.
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I'm fine playing Pac-Man on a 20" 4:3 I picked up for $25 from Arrow. I don't play HD Street Fighter or any other high resolution, high framerate on my arcade cabs, so it's never an issue.
Bulbous uses his $800 4k g-sync monitor for this because it never skips a frame in pac man and he thinks HLSL is worthless below 4k resolution. To each their own, I just don't see the point. On the other hand, if I didn't have other things to spend my money on I could see buying a $1200 custom display for a marquee or even this 26" 1:1 display. I spent a ton of money on my cab, and some people would never consider RGB LED buttons and the such for a cab, so who can judge?
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No one is judging, I'm just offering another viewpoint because 99% of the time, BB presents his position as absolute. :dunno
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No one is judging, I'm just offering another viewpoint because 99% of the time, BB presents his position as absolute. :dunno
Frankly, that's my problem with him as well.
I understand the psychology behind it, I was in the audio and video business for a long time and there were audiophiles and videophiles who insisted certain things made all the difference in the world. On the one hand, I could see or hear the differences in a $50 system over a $500 system over a $5000 system over a $50,000 system, but at some point the return on investment was no longer valuable to me, and frankly it became so minute that it was hard to justify even if you had the money. Some people want to be able to claim they have the best, however, and more power to them.
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The difference between stuttering or running at the wrong speed isn't "minute." It's huge. Audio glitches, sounds playing at the wrong pitch, and jerky scrolling/irregular flickering are not MINOR issues. They're glaring flaws.
Uneven scanlines and massive aliasing when using HLSL at low resolutions aren't "minor" issues either.
This isn't comparable to a $50,000 audio setup. $800 for a monitor isn't really that expensive. It's not even close to the point of diminishing returns.
The first ROG Swift I got was defective, and I think many of the first run of that monitor were defective, so I told people about it.
The Acer 4k has been fine, and the replacement ROG Swift I got has been fine, too. I'm the last person to "justify" a purchase irrationally. In fact, I'm probably one of the few people here who'll criticize things and point out the advantages and disadvantages of different options.
The truth, though, is that non-G-Sync LCDs simply stink for playing arcade games. If you're not going to get a high quality LCD, it's a no brainer. Just get a CRT.
If the Adaptive-Sync/Freeysnc monitors end up being better than G-Sync monitors, I will be the first person to tell you, and if the upcoming IPS G-Sync displays are better overall than the faster TN panels, I'll be the first person to trade in what I have for one of those.
dkersten, I would really appreciate it if you could stop personally attacking me and defaming my character. It would also be nice if you could get your facts straight. I don't own three G-Sync monitors. I'm not a slope foreheaded yahoo who lies about products to justify my purchase of them, and I'm very insulted by such an accusation. My "bitching" about the monitor, as you so clumsily put it, is evidence against your accusation, but I guess that didn't occur to you. $800 means nothing to me. If the ROG Swift and 4k Acer weren't good LCDs for arcade games, I wouldn't say they were. If you continue to attack my character, I'll have to report you to the mods.
You have a "problem" with me? I don't have problems with people. I don't know or care about anything about you. I deal only in facts, and the fact is that you were wrong, and I corrected you. You ignorantly stated that MAME doesn't support G-Sync even though it's always worked perfectly with G-Sync. Maybe if you spent more time learning about hardware and less time having problems with people, you wouldn't be spouting misinformation.
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BB, so which monitor would you prefer in a MAME/MESS/UME cab, the ROG Swift or the 4K Acer? I know the ROG does 144Hz where the Acer only does 60Hz, but realistically, what percentage of these older games run natively higher than 60Hz?
Refresh rate aside, is there a noticeable improvement visually with the 4k Acer display over the 2560 x 1440 rez of the ROG?
Also, with the ROG, would one be able to get away with a ~$200 G-SYNC video card over the ~$400 one needed to do 4k without issues?
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I'd say that the ROG Swift is a better monitor overall for an arcade cabinet. The panel in the ROG Swift is better than the 4k Acer's. The Acer is just higher resolution. The colors are actually better on the ROG Swift. Like you say, you need much less GPU power to drive the ROG Swift than the 4k Acer, and the 144hz refresh rate on the ROG Swift is nice because you never have to worry about games running at their native speeds. The 4k Acer can't run Battletoads or other > 60hz games at their native refresh rate. The 4k Acer actually runs somewhere around 59.3hz internally.
The one huge flaw that both of these monitors have is that they're worthless for vertically oriented games. They're TN panels, and the color shift when oriented vertically is really bad. I'd recommend a nice CRT over these monitors for vertical games. You'll probably need one of the IPS Freesync or G-Sync panels to get good quality for portrait mode.
If you run a lot of console games in Retroarch, CRT Royale looks significantly better at 4k than 1440p. 1440p isn't really high enough resolution for CRT Royale. There aren't enough vertical pixels for it. Also, HLSL in MAME requires a ton of pixels to look good. At 1440p, you're kind of stuck with SDLMAME and the Timothy Lottes shader if you want stuff to look good. At 4k, you can use HLSL in MAME and get good quality. Also, if you play a lot of medium resolution stuff, you need a ton of pixels for that to look good with a shader. Rampage, Popeye, etc. look amazing at 4k.
Basically, it's a wash. There's no ideal solution yet. We want a 4k, 120hz+ OLED G-Sync/Freesync display. As of today, if you don't own anything, I'd wait for the IPS G-Sync monitors coming out to see how they are. Color shift in TN panels blows.
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BB, you are one of hundreds of regulars here who have built an arcade using an LCD, yet you insist that the ONLY way to use an LCD is to go with a prohibitively expensive monitor that costs more than most people's entire cabinet. I get it, you like the G-sync, and you want things the way you want them. That is AWESOME... for YOU. Like I said in my post, I spent a ton of money on RGB LED lit buttons, and in another discussion many people said they thought it was not only a waste of money but didn't add anything to the cabinet. Just because I disagree, I don't run around saying it is the ONLY way to go. It is an option, and I can easily admit that it is neither necessary for a good gaming experience, nor really all that important.
Since our first discussion, you have gone on and on about how these glitches are so massive, yet you are the ONLY person here (outside of X2) who seems to think this or even really notices it. And the tone of your posts suggest you feel more important because you notice this and have spent the money to get around it. Guess what? Nobody else even notices what you see, nor cares!
In fact, you have gotten to the point where you insist that the ONLY way to play a 240 line resolution game is to use a 2160 line resolution monitor. And you have no idea how ridiculous that makes you sound.
Technology wise, I understand where you are coming from. When I first started building gaming computers in 1992, I was an elitist too. I needed the best, and I defended the brands I purchased similarly. Then I grew up and realized I didn't need a state of the art, top end, high horsepower, top dollar computer to enjoy a game. In fact, now I update my computer once every few years, and only when I find a game I want to play that is unplayable. Also, and this is key, my vision isn't perfect 20/20, and I stare at computer screens all day, on average of 15 hours per day. I keep my 27" monitors at 1600x900 resolution so I can read the text and see the graphics. Anything finer than that is a waste of time and money for me.
My experience in the high end audio and video markets back in the 90's taught me that MOST people would never see or hear the difference unless you show them side by side comparisons, and even then about half the people will look at you like you are an idiot. I have a 100" tv in my theater, and the differences between Blu-ray and 1080i are astounding to me, yet my kids will choose a low def 480 line broadcast to watch because they don't see the difference between that and even 1080i, let alone 1080p. Do I look down my nose at them for not "getting it"? No, I shrug and let them watch because they aren't going to enjoy it any more on a higher resolution channel.
As hard as it is for you to see, most people DON'T see eye to eye with you and will disagree with your opinions. Why do I call you out on these posts? Because you THINK your OPINIONS are FACT, and while you might have some basis for fact, they are still opinions.
I can play pac man all day long on a 1080 LCD with a cheap TN panel that cost me $180, and I can have a dozen guests over to play with me and not ONE of them will ever say "Hey, did you see that glitch on pac man? Damn, you need to throw this away, Dave, it is completely unplayable."
Besides all this, what the hell is the point in playing a game if you can't just enjoy it? I can stand in front of ANY arcade cabinet I the world and play a game and have fun. I don't have to have a CRT or a 4k G-sync display, Hell, I could play it on an 800x600 active sync panel and enjoy it just as much as I would on the original monitor. You can't, and that sucks for you. Equally as bad, you can't accept that other people CAN.
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How much does this monitor cost? Can I buy it yet?
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How much does this monitor cost? Can I buy it yet?
Somewhere between $50 and $800, scanning all the text.
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It will cost around $1000 give or take a $100.
I hope the trend for square aspect LCD monitors continues and grows, great for the arcade hobby!
Thats USD btw.
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Yeah, that sounds about right. Would be great if it comes in under 1k, but I doubt it. Would this be a good card to pair it up with?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487091 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487091)
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Yeah, that sounds about right. Would be great if it comes in under 1k, but I doubt it. Would this be a good card to pair it up with?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487091 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487091)
Looks OK, I'm currently using this card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202125 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202125)
very happy with it so far.