The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: steve_terrell on October 09, 2014, 09:28:39 am
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To make MAME more fun to play, I invented an arcade control panel that behaves like a USB keyboard. I'm sure I'm not the first to do this, but my design is the first one I've seen that includes all of these controls in one panel:
- 2 players
- 2 trackballs
- 12 fire buttons
- 2 spinners
- 2 joysticks
- pause, config, and exit buttons
Just hook the USB cable up to any computer running MAME and go. It's all contained in one lightweight portable box just 24" x 10" x 3". Parts total about $150.
Plus, you can even optionally put a Raspberry Pi in there (as I have done) and not even need an external computer - just hook up the box up to speakers and HDMI monitor. Or, use an HDMI TV and the sound is already taken care of.
Now I'm trying to figure out if anyone would be interested in building their own if I supplied instructions (free) and some custom parts (for a small fee). The custom parts would include a microcontroller loaded with my keyboard emulator code, and maybe some parts needed for my homemade trackball and spinner designs, and maybe the pre-cut box.
Thoughts? Feedback? Is this new or is this too commonplace? I've had some feedback that similar stuff already exists, but I've not seen as many features for as low a cost.
I will try to make a video later and post the YouTube link here.
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Frankenpanels are pretty common.
Not to focus on the negative, but that panel doesnt look very comfortable to use, and the button layout is pretty bad. I do appreciate the effort and willingness to share your plans though.
take a stroll through the projects section and see if you get any inspiration for adjustments to your design. :cheers:
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To make MAME more fun to play, I invented an arcade control panel that behaves like a USB keyboard. I'm sure I'm not the first to do this, but my design is the first one I've seen that includes all of these controls in one panel:
- 2 players
- 2 trackballs
- 12 fire buttons
- 2 spinners
- 2 joysticks
- pause, config, and exit buttons
Invented !? :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
Almost every single arcade cab contains a connected as an USB keyboard control panel with most of the controls you added although most did not overdo like you did.
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Ouch. I can appreciate the effort, but the execution needs a lot of refinement.
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What exactly did you invent?
The Controls?
You can buy all those controls already from various brands/shops.
The Encoder?
There are many different encoders on the market, even open source hardware ones, such as Kade: http://kadevice.com/ (http://kadevice.com/)
The control panel itself?
People have made some really stunning ones, and lots have shared there designs. This is how you do a proper panel with trackball and spinner.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=313736;image)
The only thing you got going for you is that normally 150 won't get you all those controls you listed. On the huge down side those trackballs ans spinners look ... well ... uhm ... like nothing I have ever seen before. And I don't mean that in a positive way.
Next time do some more research before posting.
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I'm curious about the spinners and trackballs. What did you do there?
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Despite the refinements needed, I appreciate the "ground up" ingenuity here. 10 years ago, most of the people in this hobby were looking at affordable hacks to make homebrew arcade controls. Some cool ideas came out of it. I can't help but think that under the panel, there might be some really creative solutions. So I'll bite, I am really curious as to how your trackballs are made. It looks like you got a billiard ball and mason jar lid going on there. What is underneath?
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I'm also curious about what trackballs and spinners you're using. And please do post a youtube video.
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No-one has even mentioned the arcade cab that's built out of PVC pipe. :laugh2: He gets +1 for creativity, but I 2nd the curiosity about those trackballs...
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Feel the rainbow. Puke the rainbow....
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Feel the rainbow. Puke the raonbow....
No, this is what you get when you puke a rainbow
Disasteradio - Gravy Rainbow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-LKa1Y9_ok#ws)
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i would like to buy the whole cab you built !!! how much ? :applaud:
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Steve. Steve steve steve steve steve. Steve. Buddy. Steeeeeve. Pal. Steve. What're you trying to do here man? You've got some innovation going on for sure, home made spinners and trackballs? I want to see more. I dig it. I dig that you dig it. I'm excited that you're excited.
I don't think you're quite ready to go to market yet and there is quite a lot we could do to help the playability of that panel if you're interested in that kind of feedback. If not, that's cool bro. It's all cool. Show us the pics that matter, show us the under the hood shots. Lift her skirt for us so we can take a gander.
Yeah, your layout isn't my style and yeah some of your mounting looks a bit rough around the edges but there might be THE NEXT BIG THING in there and we can't see it. I want to see it. Let's see it. Give us a peek.
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(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/67/671256e55e7b94c478f77c4dd2aa2641afb98ec711bc9be66307aab25cd881fe.jpg)
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Steve,
I LOVE to see your video.
And what I see more, is pvc...I did see some driving seats from pvc and a Pinball, but no arcade.
And And I see A LOT of things going on on your control panel.
I can see why you are exited of your product, but there is a lot going on there.
But behind the ugly face, there can be a princess :cheers:
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What's up with the mounting pattern on the P1 joystick. One of those screws is WAY out there.
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Is that Bell jar canning lids on the trackballs?
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What exactly did you invent?
The Controls?
You can buy all those controls already from various brands/shops.
The Encoder?
There are many different encoders on the market, even open source hardware ones, such as Kade: http://kadevice.com/ (http://kadevice.com/)
The control panel itself?
People have made some really stunning ones, and lots have shared there designs. This is how you do a proper panel with trackball and spinner.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=313736;image)
The only thing you got going for you is that normally 150 won't get you all those controls you listed. On the huge down side those trackballs ans spinners look ... well ... uhm ... like nothing I have ever seen before. And I don't mean that in a positive way.
Next time do some more research before posting.
LoL.. Show off :cheers:
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What's up with the mounting pattern on the P1 joystick. One of those screws is WAY out there.
Nah, the P1 joystick screw is hidden behind the joystick shaft. The screw you're thinking about is for fastening the CP itself.
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Eh don't listen to these guys... they just bustin' your chops. I think it looks awesome! Only thing missing is the dustwashers. You put those bad boys on and it will look 1000 times better!
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If we keep bumping this thread, OP will come back.
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What's up with the mounting pattern on the P1 joystick. One of those screws is WAY out there.
Nah, the P1 joystick screw is hidden behind the joystick shaft. The screw you're thinking about is for fastening the CP itself.
Actually, I was talking about the one next to the P1 button, but now that you mention it, it's probably a matter of perspective.
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Uhm, I think you guys scared him away :bat
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Uhm, I think you guys scared him away :bat
I didn't know you could scare a troll.
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Uhm, I think you guys scared him away :bat
I didn't know you could scare a troll.
Now you know.
And congrats on 1000 posts :D
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Is that Bell jar canning lids on the trackballs?
Yes, yes it is.
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i made him an offer for $3k but he says he can get around $5k for it ! :banghead: :cry: :badmood:
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i made him an offer for $3k but he says he can get around $5k for it ! :banghead: :cry: :badmood:
You're ---smurfing--- shitting me, right??? >:D
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What exactly did you invent?
The Controls?
You can buy all those controls already from various brands/shops.
The Encoder?
There are many different encoders on the market, even open source hardware ones, such as Kade: http://kadevice.com/ (http://kadevice.com/)
The control panel itself?
People have made some really stunning ones, and lots have shared there designs. This is how you do a proper panel with trackball and spinner.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136713.0;attach=313736;image)
The only thing you got going for you is that normally 150 won't get you all those controls you listed. On the huge down side those trackballs ans spinners look ... well ... uhm ... like nothing I have ever seen before. And I don't mean that in a positive way.
Next time do some more research before posting.
That control panel overlay looks awesome you have given me an idea for my build, plus I think im going to stick to the black and white theme it looks nicer.
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That control panel overlay looks awesome you have given me an idea for my build, plus I think im going to stick to the black and white theme it looks nicer.
The cab is called the Blip and was made by markc74: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137295.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137295.0.html)
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Uhm, I think you guys scared him away :bat
Yes, that guys did! Next time, please shut the f*** up and at least let us others find out what this is all about! No matter how lame you think a project is, there may be some things about it that are freakin genious! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
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Uhm, I think you guys scared him away :bat
Yes, that guys did! Next time, please shut the f*** up and at least let us others find out what this is all about! No matter how lame you think a project is, there may be some things about it that are freakin genious! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
I'm not sure if we scared him away or not. :dunno
OP was posted October 09, 2014, 08:28:39 am.
His stats page shows Last Active on October 09, 2014, 08:28:08 am.
OP may have read the thread later without logging in, but there's no way to know for sure.
I've seen some very blunt advice in this thread, but nothing that clearly crosses the line IMHO.
Everyone -- please consider Rule 1 (http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_message_rules.html) before posting.
1. Be nice to each other. We're serious about this one. Disagree, debate, argue at will - but please be respectful. Messages that are flame-bait, hateful, racist, or otherwise pointlessly antagonistic will likely be sent to post-hell, and repeat offenders banned from posting.
Scott
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If nothing violated rule 1 then why did you repost rule 1? I'm going to assume it's to tell us all what a good job we are doing of not violating rule 1. You hear that everyone? Good job!
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Uhm, I think you guys scared him away :bat
Yes, that guys did! Next time, please shut the f*** up and at least let us others find out what this is all about! No matter how lame you think a project is, there may be some things about it that are freakin genious! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
(http://rlv.zcache.com/you_tried_sticker-r260da7d522944133a2943fddf6d61f94_v9w09_8byvr_512.jpg)
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But seriously, nobody posted ANYTHING that broke rule 1. Should people provide honest feedback or should they shut the ---fudgesicle--- up? Because if they just shut the ---fudgesicle--- up, then GENIUS ideas don't get shared.
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Response 1 of 2 (non technical part)
Thanks, everyone for your feedback! There was so much that it was a more efficient use of my time to wait until everything died down so I could reply to everyone in mass.
A lot of comments concerned aesthetics. I'm not interested in that. I just want something that works and is cheap. Thought there might be others like me out there. I like to design the guts - individuals can put their own look on top. Trust me, you don't want an engineer in charge of cosmetics. :)
It's just a first-pass on the control layout itself. You should see me trying to play Tron with only two hands (joystick, button, and spinner Ha ha!). I think everyone here knows it's a no-brainer to move stuff around. Easy problems go to the end of the list.
Some people didn't understand what I thought was unique about the box. Summary: Portable + low cost + light weight + small + control variety + 2 players + 1000's of games + anyone can build + computer included. Despite some calls of "done before", no one cited any specific examples of all this rolled into one package. Which was what I was trying to find out. I did indeed do some (limited) research, but a major turn off to me was lack of controls. Marble Madness with less than two trackballs just isn't the same. Plus, I already had a Raspberry Pi and micro controller laying around… Not to mention that teasing a prototype and collecting feedback IS research...
Some folks apparently thought I was taking my project too seriously. It's a just hobby. Really. But you slap downs made me laugh a lot!
One idea that came out of the chain that I had not thought about was: focusing on the encoder. Since a Teensy + my code is cheaper than the other encoders out there (that I could find), and can easily handle analog as well as digital signals, and can easily support enough simultaneous USB keyboard keystrokes for 2 players, I might do that.
But then again, there was a lot of interest in the spinners and trackballs, too. See my next post...
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STEVE! Don't listen to these losers!
I have CASH IN HAND....
(the rest of you are all suckers, i'm going to be rich!)
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Response 2 of 2 (answering some technical questions)
Some of the screws are for fastening the box sides to the inside blocks of wood to hold it together. I thought that my choice of material for the box was pretty ingenious - I used fake wood flooring boards. Got a box of it for $10 on clearance. It's thin, light, smooth, rigid, and looks better than other wood scraps in my garage. And they snap together.
3 things that took the most time: Encoder code, trackballs, and spinners. Months and months of trial-and-error and redesigns on the two latter.
Spinners
found some homemade spinner designs on the web, but they really looked like a lot of over-kill - relying on a lot of mechanics to detect rotation. I found online a simple chip that puts out an analog voltage in response to the orientation of a magnet in 360. I got some cheap casters from the hardware store and broke off the wheels. What you're left with is a base for a spinner. Just screw the top onto a dial, and glue a magnet on the bottom.
The dials themselves are the result of melting gluesticks with crayons in cat food cans. I did this 'cause I wanted colors matching the trackballs.
The dials work well for driving games or rotating tank turrets, stuff like that. Not so well with pong-type games like Arkanoid. Not sure if it's just my MAME configs or problems inherent with transforming rotation into lateral movement. Or maybe I just stink at Arkanoid.
Drawback - I have to admit the dials don't "feel" right - they feel very loose and light. But hey, they work. I saw some dial designs where pennies were put in to add some weight.
Anyway, the analog voltage goes to the Teensy where my program keeps track of the rotation changes and sends a keystroke for clockwise or counter-clockwise as needed. And I wrote the code to be self-calibrating since you might get different mins and maxes from different chips.
Trackballs
There were many good homemade trackball designs on the web that I stole from. Also my 9 year old son figured out some parts around the house that accidentally snapped together. He also helped with a lot of the troubleshooting. And it was his Raspberry Pi I was borrowing. :)
I thought it would be neat to use pool balls for the sake of the 1 & 2. Some posters were very insulted by this. For which I am extremely sorry. How dare I do that? :lol But, I didn't know what else to use for a ball in my price range, anyway. And everyone else was using cue balls, so I wanted to try something different.
Most of not all designs on the web used optical mouse guts. So I did that. Big problem was that some mice had trouble with the colors of one or both pool balls. Lots of trial and error with different mice. Eventually found some cheap ones t the store that worked with both balls. There are even cheaper ones online, but I have not tried them yet.
But how to mount the ball just perfectly above the sensor? 3 wood screws hold it up and allow for adjusting the centering and height. Used a dremel to smooth the heads to avoid scratching. Rolling is very smooth and feels good to the hand. My son and I found a way to keep everything together:
1. Cut piece of thick scrap wood into a "U" shape so mouse guts can fit in the center.
2. Screw 1 of 2 mason jar rings into the wood with the 3 screws at an angle.
3. Push the ring up through the big whole in your panel.
4. Get a small tupperware-type food container whose diameter is just the right size to snap firmly over the first ring. Cut the bottom off the container.
5. Snap the top of the tupperware on top of the first mason jar ring. Like magic, the ring is just tall enough, and the tupperware is just snug enough, that this trackball base holds on tight (with my choice of box material). But I use some how glue on the underside - just in case.
6. Put the ball on the screws and adjust.
7. Put another mason jar ring on top to keep ball from rolling out. In fact, the top ring fits so snuggly over the chopped off tupperware that you can even turn the panel upside down and the balls will not fall out. But I don't recommend it. You could glue it, but I leave it as is for future maintenance.
I forgot to power on for the photograph I posted earlier, but you get a nice red glow around the trackballs thanks to the mice LEDs and the translucent tupperware.
The mice plug into the USB hub (also in the box) that goes to your computer or the internal Pi.
Make sure you reverse either the X or Y in mouse configs in MAME.
OK, that's the high-level how-I-did-it. There are a lot of details I'm leaving out, but I hope to make time to put together a web page with a better walk-through.
Encoder was first an Arduino (cause I already had one), then I switched to Teensy for the lower price and need for a few more inputs. It's so teensy that you can't even see it in the photo unless you know where to look.
Below is the seedy underbelly.
Oh, before I forget, DO make sure you take the cat food OUT of the can first.
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Well done! :applaud: I don't know if I'd have had the patience for all of that! Kudos for sticking with it!
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I like it when people try some things out with stuff laying around the house :applaud:
I hope you don't give to much away for your kickstarter :cheers:
The main things is, that you are happy with it and make good use of it, and if the rest don't believe in it, bad for them.
Sadly, when you wanna sell some things these days, it have to be presented in a nice and slick way, so the looks are important also.
Greetings and keep on inventing things :cheers:
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While I appreciate the time and effort you put into this, I do have some feedback that is not positive.
First, reading your description of the construction of your trackballs leads me to believe that they are fragile. I am not sure if you have ever seen people play trackball games like Shuuz, Golden Tee, or Shuffleshot, but they need to withstand quite a bit of abuse as well as be calibrated to spin pretty fast and still track. I would bet that a couple GT drives would be all it takes to damage or destroy your trackball. There is a reason that trackballs use heavy duty rollers and not just a few pegs to ride on. Also, trackballs typically use rollers with optical wheels because A) you can make very high resolution wheels for both precision and a wide range of speed detection, and B) because optical sensors like IR or laser require texture to sense the movement. The newest lasers are OK with smooth surfaces, but still need some kind of texture to see the movement. You want trackballs to be as smooth as possible so they roll good. As for what kind of ball to use, the larger the ball, the more precision you get, which is important for some games. 3" seems to be the "sweet spot", and when doing anything DIY, juggling balls tend to be the choice most used. And I believe there is a thread here for a ps/2 2" trackball that people have had good luck with that costs like $20 or less.
Second, While I appreciate that you figured out a way to translate an analog voltage to an X axis for spin, it sounds like you still have a lot of bugs to work out there. Optical spinners can be used with a variety of controllers. The reason I point this out is it seems that if you were to market this spinner, it would require your proprietary controller and software. If you are looking to sell hardware based on your designs, people would be turned off with the lack of compatibility with their existing hardware. If you are looking to sell complete units, you will leave out people like you find on this forum because anyone who is into customizing will not want a prefab controller (this is after all a forum about building your own controls, people come here to figure out how to do things themselves). And if your intent is to sell instructions on building your own spinners and trackballs and controllers, you may be asking too much of a general hobbyist, especially since your spinner won't be compatible with anything else out there.
Third, your controller. Again, I appreciate that you did it yourself, that is a great accomplishment, especially considering your challenges with the spinner. But there is already projects that can net you a complete encoder for literally a few dollars. Kade has become well known and with a $6 part, a little soldering, and some software you can have a fully functioning encoder. And analog and optical controls are being worked on or are available with slightly different hardware. Then there is hacking keyboards and game pads, which can even be cheaper. But none of these will work with your spinner, just everyone else's products on the market.
Fourth, it is one thing to build something that is not so pleasing to the eye and somewhat fragile and tricky to get dialed in right because you are the one who is using it and you already have the satisfaction of making it work to override the dissatisfaction of the glitches and other downsides. It is something else entirely to expect anyone to shell out even a quarter to use your designs or products to end up with a sketchy product. There are dozens of free designs on this board for various arcade parts that people can build at home. But I think anyone who is going to pay for a finished product will want quality that exceeds anything they could build from some free plans on the internet.
I hate to be the "negative nancy" here, but I tend to agree with the earlier posts here. 10 years ago your ideas might have been revolutionary and unique, but frankly what you have here is a kludged together DIY control panel that shows some great ingenuity, but nothing truly innovative. If you really want to market anything, spend some serious time reading this forum and others like it to see what people have already done and shared for free, do your market research of the major brands and retailers out there who sell competitive products, and then come up with something you can get patented and manufactured on the cheap that people might be interested in buying. The ones who successfully took their ideas to market and have profitable businesses are the ones who were able to get their designs through the alpha and beta stages, work with manufacturers to come up with ways to build them on the cheap, and spend the capital to produce high enough quantities to where they could make a profit selling them.
It seems your intent overall here is to take what you did with your control panel and come up with a way to make money off it. I just don't see that happening, but that is just my opinion. Most people in this community will come up with stuff like you did just so they can share it and spread it around. I am not saying that you should give away your designs or share anything, that is up to you. I know first hand how difficult it is to put thousands of hours into something and not have a product that can be marketed. And the fact is, most people who end up making money "inventing" something do so after a few hundred inventions (and many many years) that don't go anywhere.
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Ok, Im going to have to throw in my two cents here (on todays market, actual value is about 0.145 cents).
When I first saw this post I was thinking "Is this a joke?" and I also held back the derogatory "That aint nuttin, Al Gore invented the internet."
But that little voice in my head (which is a lot smarter than me), told me to hold up before inserting foot in mouth.
I saw where you took some beatings for coming up with your own parts.
I saw where you took those beatings in stride and showed us more of how you did the construction.
Now I have to apologize for my first thoughts. (Never should have told you, DOH).
Anyway, I am impressed with your work.
This site is called BYOAC (Build Your Own Arcade Controls), and you have stuck to that more than any other project Ive seen on here, including my own.
Hats off to your hard work and ingenuity.
And though I cant see you actually marketing something like this, who knows?
As to how to share it, complete methods of how you built your trackballs and spinners (with pictures, and more pictures) would be an excellent way to do that.
It could give others inspiration and ideas, and Im all for that.
So, welcome to the forum, and looking forward to seeing more projects from you.
BTW, I bought one of those teensy boards a couple years back. Had intended on using it on my rotating monitor projects as a USB interface, but it got put on the back burner and now sits somewhere in a box.
Those are very compact boards and Im sure I will use it someday.
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This site is called BYOAC (Build Your Own Arcade Controls), and you have stuck to that more than any other project Ive seen on here, including my own.
Hats off to your hard work and ingenuity.
:applaud:
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While I appreciate the time and effort you put into this, I do have some feedback that is not positive.
First, reading your description...
Thanks for a well-thought out and honest opinion, Dave. I'm all for innovation and experimentation, and I commend the OP for that, but honestly, for $200 I could buy a U-Trak and TurboTwist2 and have everything I need, ready to go. Sure, this stuff works, but it doesn't look very good. Unless you the type that likes to kludge things together, I don't see how this is a better alternative. What's the incentive?
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Hey, if this was all about what the OP built for himself, I have nothing but appreciation for what he did, even though most of what he did could have been had a lot easier and even cheaper in some cases with a little research. Like I said, 10 years ago it would have been innovative. The question is, what now? I mean, without going back and re-reading, it sounds like he wants to market this, and that changes this from him sharing what he built from scratch without using what others have come up with before him to him taking a 10+ year old idea that has been done over and over and trying to market it as something new. THAT is what prompted me to critique things.
Bottom line: As a project that was done without the aid of other hobbyists, I respect it even if it is not all that attractive or ergonomic. But as a kickstarter project or even just an intent to market and sell, I give it a .05 out of 10. Nothing innovative, nothing particularly marketable, nothing that would make me turn away from a Kade and a 2" ps/2 trackball if my budget were close to zero, and certainly nothing that would keep me from buying a quality trackball, spinner, and encoder if I did have the money.
Frankly, I would like to see what the OP could come up with given a little time spent here, some tossing around of ideas, some research into what has been done (particularly the really high quality builds and innovative designs), and a new perspective on what might be missing from this hobby. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, start with what is out there and build on it. This is the kind of member of BYOAC who could end up with a crazy automated cabinet, a solid and inexpensive DIY controller design, or something that nobody has even thought of. But this CP just isn't it.
One last note: I came here with little experience in building my controls or cabinet but with a lot of experience in other hobby fields that related well to this one. I sort of expected that I wouldn't learn much outside of some details that I am missing, perhaps a little about the technology that is currently on the market, and maybe get some good ideas for my own projects. I honestly figured that with my background in custom audio, woodworking, electronics, computers, and gaming, that I would be one of very few people with the skillset to build something really cool. Yet I was humbled quickly by the fact that not only do most of the members here share in my abilities, but in many cases the quality and craftsmanship makes what I have done look like a 4 year old did it. I am happy I didn't join this board and start a post like "look what I invented" before reading up on the hundreds of takes on the exact same thing. I took my time, read some build threads, and learned in a hurry that my ideas were not only unoriginal, but in many cases considered "amateur hour". But that doesn't mean I can't contribute here, nor does it mean I don't belong. And it also doesn't mean that one day I won't turn something out that even the most creative builders here will sit up and go "holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, that is awesome".. I just don't expect it of my first project, or even my 5th.
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I completely agree with you, Dave. Once the word "sell" came in to play, I think honest opinions should be considered. If it was someone tinkering on their own? :dunno
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Once the word "sell" came in to play, I think honest opinions should be considered.
Nailed it.
the result of melting gluesticks with crayons in cat food cans.
See johnrt was right, there is some mad genius in there. It's "super on the cheap, cool homemade, not really selling quality" type genius, but it's there.
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the result of melting gluesticks with crayons in cat food cans.
See johnrt was right, there is some mad genius in there. It's "super on the cheap, cool homemade, not really selling quality" type genius, but it's there.
Agreed, this is stuff that would have been mimicked 10 years ago when everything was homebrew. Not gonna turn a dime selling, but I love the fresh creatitivity. I love the use of laser mice upside down to map the trackball.
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Agreed, this is stuff that would have been mimicked 10 years ago when everything was homebrew. Not gonna turn a dime selling, but I love the fresh creatitivity. I love the use of laser mice upside down to map the trackball.
That caught my attention too. But maybe use a "real trackball" and mount the mouse under the ball. May have to cut a bigger hole in the bottom of the trackball case, but maybe not?
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Laser mouse should work OK, but I don't know about the speed it can track. And a "flatter" finish on the ball would work far better than shiny. From just playing with my laser mouse here at work, range is a major factor.. if I am about 3mm from the laser "eye" on the mouse, it won't register at all, but I need to be about 1mm away from it too (the thickness of the pads on the mouse) or it stops registering. Might be tricky to get it dialed in right, but should work.
Personally I would love to see a trackball that rides on 4 spherical bearings instead of 3 rollers.. when you do a hard forward on a trackball, it will start to veer left because of the drag of the x-axis roller. Something that eliminates that but still allows you to really slam the ball forward and not have the rollers come apart would be nice, and a laser sensor instead of an optical wheel on a roller would allow for that.
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I'm still confused as to what he is "selling"? ???
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I'm still confused as to what he is "selling"? ???
"To make MAME more fun to play, I invented an arcade control panel that behaves like a USB keyboard. I'm sure I'm not the first to do this, but my design is the first one I've seen that includes all of these controls in one panel:
2 players
2 trackballs
12 fire buttons
2 spinners
2 joysticks
pause, config, and exit buttons
Just hook the USB cable up to any computer running MAME and go. It's all contained in one lightweight portable box just 24" x 10" x 3". Parts total about $150.
Now I'm trying to figure out if anyone would be interested in building their own if I supplied instructions (free) and some custom parts (for a small fee). The custom parts would include a microcontroller loaded with my keyboard emulator code, and maybe some parts needed for my homemade trackball and spinner designs, and maybe the pre-cut box."
I assume the parts include Tupperware containers, mason jar lids, crayons, and empty cat food tins, according to the later text. :dunno
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My cats breath smells like at food.
...in all seriousness, I'm using a Teensey usb dev board for my Super PlayChoice. Works like a dream.
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While I appreciate the time and effort you put into this, I do have some feedback that is not positive.
At first I was scared by the "not positive", but was the relieved to see that what followed contained a lot of 1) technical critique which is what I was looking for, and 2) opinion expressed in a professional way. So, it's all cool!
First, reading your description of the construction of your trackballs leads me to believe that they are fragile. I am not sure if you have ever seen people play trackball games like Shuuz, Golden Tee, or Shuffleshot, but they need to withstand quite a bit of abuse as well as be calibrated to spin pretty fast and still track. I would bet that a couple GT drives would be all it takes to damage or destroy your trackball. There is a reason that trackballs use heavy duty rollers and not just a few pegs to ride on. Also, trackballs typically use rollers with optical wheels because A) you can make very high resolution wheels for both precision and a wide range of speed detection, and B) because optical sensors like IR or laser require texture to sense the movement. The newest lasers are OK with smooth surfaces, but still need some kind of texture to see the movement. You want trackballs to be as smooth as possible so they roll good. As for what kind of ball to use, the larger the ball, the more precision you get, which is important for some games. 3" seems to be the "sweet spot", and when doing anything DIY, juggling balls tend to be the choice most used. And I believe there is a thread here for a ps/2 2" trackball that people have had good luck with that costs like $20 or less.
All I can say is that the pool balls work fine for me and the kids. If anyone was playing rough enough to do damage to the trackballs, I'd be more worried about them knocking over my PVC-pipe cabinet (more like a cabinet skeleton) and knocking the monitor onto the floor. $20 sounds like a good contender for an alternative trackball for about the same cost. I had not come across that solution. I like the pool balls - they're funny, an OK size (2.25"), you have a choice of designs.
However, I had not heard of juggling balls being used. If I were to do it again, I might try those. But, I just looked at a few, and they seem kind of pricey.
To be clear, optical mice don't need texture - they need visual variation, which you get when you have texture. They work by taking photo's of the surface many times per second to determine if there is movement. When I started, some of the mice at my disposal had trouble reading one color or the other. Eventually I found a cheap mouse that could read yellow and blue.
Second, While I appreciate that you figured out a way to translate an analog voltage to an X axis for spin, it sounds like you still have a lot of bugs to work out there. Optical spinners can be used with a variety of controllers. The reason I point this out is it seems that if you were to market this spinner, it would require your proprietary controller and software. If you are looking to sell hardware based on your designs, people would be turned off with the lack of compatibility with their existing hardware. If you are looking to sell complete units, you will leave out people like you find on this forum because anyone who is into customizing will not want a prefab controller (this is after all a forum about building your own controls, people come here to figure out how to do things themselves). And if your intent is to sell instructions on building your own spinners and trackballs and controllers, you may be asking too much of a general hobbyist, especially since your spinner won't be compatible with anything else out there.
I somehow gave many posters the impression that I'm trying to build a business. The word "share" is in the title for a reason. All I've been trying to say is that if someone wants my el-cheapo encoder I might charge like $5 for the trouble it took to write the software. And if someone wants to use my design, but can't cut the box themselves or find the right tupperware container, etc. , I might be able to help 'em out for a small fee. No biggie.
Third, your controller. Again, I appreciate that you did it yourself, that is a great accomplishment, especially considering your challenges with the spinner. But there is already projects that can net you a complete encoder for literally a few dollars. Kade has become well known and with a $6 part, a little soldering, and some software you can have a fully functioning encoder. And analog and optical controls are being worked on or are available with slightly different hardware. Then there is hacking keyboards and game pads, which can even be cheaper. But none of these will work with your spinner, just everyone else's products on the market.
I don't think I had heard of Kade until now. Looks like it costs twice as much as a Teensy. Would like to know of an encoder that costs about $20 that can do enough digital inputs and handle two spinners without driving up the cost of the spinners themselves.
Fourth, it is one thing to build something that is not so pleasing to the eye and somewhat fragile and tricky to get dialed in right because you are the one who is using it and you already have the satisfaction of making it work to override the dissatisfaction of the glitches and other downsides. It is something else entirely to expect anyone to shell out even a quarter to use your designs or products to end up with a sketchy product. There are dozens of free designs on this board for various arcade parts that people can build at home. But I think anyone who is going to pay for a finished product will want quality that exceeds anything they could build from some free plans on the internet.
I hate to be the "negative nancy" here, but I tend to agree with the earlier posts here. 10 years ago your ideas might have been revolutionary and unique, but frankly what you have here is a kludged together DIY control panel that shows some great ingenuity, but nothing truly innovative. If you really want to market anything, spend some serious time reading this forum and others like it to see what people have already done and shared for free, do your market research of the major brands and retailers out there who sell competitive products, and then come up with something you can get patented and manufactured on the cheap that people might be interested in buying. The ones who successfully took their ideas to market and have profitable businesses are the ones who were able to get their designs through the alpha and beta stages, work with manufacturers to come up with ways to build them on the cheap, and spend the capital to produce high enough quantities to where they could make a profit selling them.
It seems your intent overall here is to take what you did with your control panel and come up with a way to make money off it. I just don't see that happening, but that is just my opinion. Most people in this community will come up with stuff like you did just so they can share it and spread it around. I am not saying that you should give away your designs or share anything, that is up to you. I know first hand how difficult it is to put thousands of hours into something and not have a product that can be marketed. And the fact is, most people who end up making money "inventing" something do so after a few hundred inventions (and many many years) that don't go anywhere.
Again - I just want to share the design for free… Where is this coming from?
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Thanks for a well-thought out and honest opinion, Dave. I'm all for innovation and experimentation, and I commend the OP for that, but honestly, for $200 I could buy a U-Trak and TurboTwist2 and have everything I need, ready to go. Sure, this stuff works, but it doesn't look very good. Unless you the type that likes to kludge things together, I don't see how this is a better alternative. What's the incentive?
Comparing apples to apples…
U-Trak is about $80. TurboTwist2 is about $70. That's about $300 for two spinners and two trackballs. Just the spinners and trackballs. I've convinced myself that an entire MAME-in-a-box can be built for about 1/2 to 2/3 of that cost. To me, the incentive is obvious.
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I assume the parts include Tupperware containers, mason jar lids, crayons, and empty cat food tins, according to the later text. :dunno
Nailed it! Finally, someone gets it! Thank you for the illustration of why it's silly for some of these posters to glom onto the falsehood that I'm trying to turn my design into a multi-billion dollar business. :) Don't know where they got that idea. It's like they saw the words "small fee" and ignored the words "share, free, and building-their-own"...
I'm not the best communicator, obviously, or there wouldn't be this much confusion.
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Laser mouse should work OK, but I don't know about the speed it can track. And a "flatter" finish on the ball would work far better than shiny. From just playing with my laser mouse here at work, range is a major factor.. if I am about 3mm from the laser "eye" on the mouse, it won't register at all, but I need to be about 1mm away from it too (the thickness of the pads on the mouse) or it stops registering. Might be tricky to get it dialed in right, but should work.
Personally I would love to see a trackball that rides on 4 spherical bearings instead of 3 rollers.. when you do a hard forward on a trackball, it will start to veer left because of the drag of the x-axis roller. Something that eliminates that but still allows you to really slam the ball forward and not have the rollers come apart would be nice, and a laser sensor instead of an optical wheel on a roller would allow for that.
Your comments reminded me of another homemade trackball design that I took inspiration from when trying to make my own: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/custom-trackball-t4773.html (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/custom-trackball-t4773.html) . It uses bearings. It only uses 3, but it could use 4.
In my case, 4 screws would be difficult to do due to lack of wood surface area after cutting a hole for the mouse circuit board.
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So, share the design already???
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Thanks for a well-thought out and honest opinion, Dave. I'm all for innovation and experimentation, and I commend the OP for that, but honestly, for $200 I could buy a U-Trak and TurboTwist2 and have everything I need, ready to go. Sure, this stuff works, but it doesn't look very good. Unless you the type that likes to kludge things together, I don't see how this is a better alternative. What's the incentive?
Comparing apples to apples…
U-Trak is about $80. TurboTwist2 is about $70. That's about $300 for two spinners and two trackballs. Just the spinners and trackballs. I've convinced myself that an entire MAME-in-a-box can be built for about 1/2 to 2/3 of that cost. To me, the incentive is obvious.
a) Most people don't have two spinners and two trackballs on their cab.
b) $300 buys a lot of well-engineered, well-polished products and not something that looks like a couple of mason jars and cat food tins cobbled together.
I commend your innovation, I really do, but I think most people is this hobby in this day and age are looking for things that look like something they'd see back in the arcade. It's not 2001 anymore, this hobby has matured. I don't want to sound like I'm ripping what you've done, but I think your ideas still need a lot of polish.
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How to share it?
Share it!
The point of contention is surely the use of :invent: and :small fee:
Share if you want to share. Charge if you want a fee.
You have stuck it out this long, share what you have to share :) !
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Share it!
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You have stuck it out this long, share what you have to share :) !
Er, yeah, I already posted some details earlier. Guess you missed it. I was not able to garner much interest in a how-to video, detailed instructions, or encoder code, so it may be a while before I get around to it. Thanks!
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So, share the design already???
Er, yeah, I already posted some details earlier. Guess you missed it. I was not able to garner much interest in a how-to video, detailed instructions, or encoder code, so it may be a while before I get around to it. Thanks!
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a) Most people don't have two spinners and two trackballs on their cab.
I'm not surprised, at those prices. That's the problem that I solved - how to bring the costs down so that people CAN have 'em. How are they supposed to play two-player Marble Madness? That's what drove me - an ability to play every ROM I could run. Still don't have a good solution for a light gun yet, though...
b) $300 buys a lot of well-engineered, well-polished products and not something that looks like a couple of mason jars and cat food tins cobbled together.
It sure does. But you gotta have the $300 first. :)
I commend your innovation, I really do, but I think most people is this hobby in this day and age are looking for things that look like something they'd see back in the arcade. It's not 2001 anymore, this hobby has matured. I don't want to sound like I'm ripping what you've done, but I think your ideas still need a lot of polish.
I think you are right. Can't argue with the general tone of the response I found here. But hey, that's what I was asking for. So, thank you for your candor.
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4 posts in a row, then 3 posts by you in a row instead of editing the first or just replying en mass is fairly annoying, just FYI.
Most people don't have multiple spinners and trackballs on their cabs because they wouldn't be utilized enough. 2 player marble madness? Maybe if I clone myself so I have someone else who cares about the game enough to play with me. Why not add a 3rd so that 3 player Rampart would be possible (but still never played)?
You have an economical solution to a problem most of us don't feel exist. I love me some Arkanoid but I don't want my hands smelling like crayons and cat food after every game.
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You have an economical solution to a problem most of us don't feel exist. I love me some Arkanoid but I don't want my hands smelling like crayons and cat food after every game.
Who is most of us???
There are many people who would like to have a cab and cannot afford the the top end items required and this is an alternative for some. Others may like to do it simply for the fun of doing it.
This project is interesting in itself due to the fact that he is thinking outside the box and trying to make his own control panel panel, nothing wrong with that. If it works, that is great, but no need to drag their ideas down. This is a "Build Your Own Arcade Controls" forum isn't it, and that is what he has done. The whole idea here is to do what you like doing and have fun doing it....Geesh!
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Steve, how did you design the encoder for your spinners? I am using a a Tornado spinner, but built my own encoder that is programmable to allow it to work with Arkanoid as well as other spinner games that require different PPR's. It is still a "Winter" work in progress, but works well as I am able to make the spinner feel the way I want it to feel.
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Who is most of us???
There are many people who would like to have a cab and cannot afford the the top end items required and this is an alternative for some. Others may like to do it simply for the fun of doing it.
This project is interesting in itself due to the fact that he is thinking outside the box and trying to make his own control panel panel, nothing wrong with that. If it works, that is great, but no need to drag their ideas down. This is a "Build Your Own Arcade Controls" forum isn't it, and that is what he has done. The whole idea here is to do what you like doing and have fun doing it....Geesh!
"Most of us" is a generalization based on the numerous interactions Ive had with members on this forum in the last 15+ years. Nothing in my retort said only the top end will do, nor did I ever say you shouldn't try to recreate what the OP did GEESH! As for dragging his ideas down, I guess you glossed over my first reply to the original post? (hint it was the very first reply)
Ace, did you know you can just edit your first post and not have to double post?
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"Most of us" started out with the intent of building one control panel that could play everything. But experience ends up telling us that narrowing things down to something more specific not only saves money and time, but ends up looking and playing better. When I first came here, I read and was told to start with a list of games before building, and like most I didn't listen to it. Now I find myself giving that same advice over and over. It is cool to have a controller that can play two player marble madness or three player rampart, but after the one time you do that, you will find you never do it again. Ever. And then suddenly all that effort seems like a waste.
After spending almost $3,000 on my cab, I find that 99% of the time we are playing Galaga. If I could get the guns to be more reliable and work better, it would be more like 90% Galaga and 9% shooting games. So I could have built a Galaga cab for like $500 and saved a pile of money. But I wanted it to be able to "play anything".
Don't let our opinions stop you from doing what you want to do, and by all means, when you come up with something you think is cool, share it. You came up with a couple interesting DIY features on your CP, but presented it as a complete CP that frankly wasn't all that appealing and appeared to have a whole lot of features that most people wouldn't be interested in. However, if you had started a thread about your trackball or about your spinner, you would have had an entirely different reaction. "Look at the super inexpensive DIY trackball I made, complete with a controller that I programmed myself" gives you thousands of views and some great comments. "I invented a control panel" gives you a few yawns and some negative criticism. I think that is all that people here are really saying.
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"Most of us" started out with the intent of building one control panel that could play everything. But experience ends up telling us that narrowing things down to something more specific not only saves money and time, but ends up looking and playing better. When I first came here, I read and was told to start with a list of games before building, and like most I didn't listen to it. Now I find myself giving that same advice over and over. It is cool to have a controller that can play two player marble madness or three player rampart, but after the one time you do that, you will find you never do it again. Ever. And then suddenly all that effort seems like a waste.
After spending almost $3,000 on my cab, I find that 99% of the time we are playing Galaga. If I could get the guns to be more reliable and work better, it would be more like 90% Galaga and 9% shooting games. So I could have built a Galaga cab for like $500 and saved a pile of money. But I wanted it to be able to "play anything".
Don't let our opinions stop you from doing what you want to do, and by all means, when you come up with something you think is cool, share it. You came up with a couple interesting DIY features on your CP, but presented it as a complete CP that frankly wasn't all that appealing and appeared to have a whole lot of features that most people wouldn't be interested in. However, if you had started a thread about your trackball or about your spinner, you would have had an entirely different reaction. "Look at the super inexpensive DIY trackball I made, complete with a controller that I programmed myself" gives you thousands of views and some great comments. "I invented a control panel" gives you a few yawns and some negative criticism. I think that is all that people here are really saying.
Well-said, Dave.
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Well-said, Dave.
Short and sweet compliments from Yots are few and far between, and usually mean that the quoted material is insightful, thought-provoking and, for the most part, right on the money. Whenever I see these, I immediately read and re-read the content they're referencing.
And once again, I'm glad I did. Anyone reading this thread should take special note.
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Well-said, Dave.
Short and sweet compliments from Yots are few and far between, and usually mean that the quoted material is insightful, thought-provoking and, for the most part, right on the money. Whenever I see these, I immediately read and re-read the content they're referencing.
And once again, I'm glad I did. Anyone reading this thread should take special note.
Well-said, Rick.
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Well-said, Dave.
Short and sweet compliments from Yots are few and far between, and usually mean that the quoted material is insightful, thought-provoking and, for the most part, right on the money. Whenever I see these, I immediately read and re-read the content they're referencing.
And once again, I'm glad I did. Anyone reading this thread should take special note.
Well-said, Rick.
lol!!
:cheers: