The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Consoles => Topic started by: Howard_Casto on May 21, 2013, 06:24:12 pm
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Sheesh man I don't want to hear any complaints about the Wii U anymore.
Keep in mind I'm a big fan of Microsoft's consoles but going down the list:
One? It's your third console! I don't want to hear any more crap about the Wii U being a confusing name.
Mandatory Kinect? Didn't we all agree that the Kinect was a failed experiment and that absolutely nobody over the age of 10 wants one?
No games announced other than lame sports titles which they heavily push at EVERY E3. Seriously are the EA guys giving the Microsoft people free bj's every weekend?
The console is a cable box that just happens to play games. Seems good until you realize that thus far zero games companies have been able to successfully get more than 25% of the cable market to cooperate with this sort of thing and even then, only to a very limited (read not as good as real cable) sort of way. I was sold on this with the wii u and tvii, until those features were released and I realized that even with their best intentions it was a bit underwhelming. It's entirely the media companies' fault. My cable company for example (suddenlink) doesn't allow cable cards... at all, period. They do this because they want full control of the hardware on their system to prevent piracy. So how is Microsoft going to convince them to allow the One to work on their network?
It's more powerful sure, but not crazily so. In the 8 years since launch they've added a lot more ram, but from what we know thus far the processor and other specs aren't much more powerful than the ps3..... It's only speculation at this point though, so keep that in mind.
This is one of those deals where I'll probably buy one eventually because some games will be released that I want, but while the Wii U's press conference left me mildly confused, this one makes me want to pull out the nothankyou.gif
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Yup, "Xbox One." That won't be confusing at all. ::) It's like when Apple named the 3rd Generation iPad "iPad" (i.e. not to be confused with the original iPad, also named iPad.)
But whatever on the name - I just never had any excited for Microsoft's console - any of them. I still have a shelf half-full of original Xbox games that are great but I just lack the drive to spend the $30 on a replacement console to play them.
I suppose they want to really shove that Kinect in people's faces though I don't know anyone who even uses theirs anymore.
I dunno - maybe I'm just not the intended audience anymore. :dunno
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The PS4 and XB1 have almost identical specs.
This one may underwhelm you, but for this generation, someone has to win. It certainly won't be Nintendo. Consumers will buy one of those two. No matter how craptastic each may or may not be.
I'm curious as to the Live fees. I've not heard good things leading up to this point. They still need to elaborate on it for me.
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This one may underwhelm you, but for this generation, someone has to win. It certainly won't be Nintendo.
Also given the fact that EA stated they're not making games for the WiiU, that in itself destroys Nintendo's chances. Sports titles aside, games like Lego Star Wars (EA's co-production) will be a huge hit to Nintendo's market.
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The PS4 and XB1 have almost identical specs.
This one may underwhelm you, but for this generation, someone has to win. It certainly won't be Nintendo. Consumers will buy one of those two. No matter how craptastic each may or may not be.
I'm curious as to the Live fees. I've not heard good things leading up to this point. They still need to elaborate on it for me.
That's what people said with the Wii, even as it was topping sales records. The 3ds also had a similar slump upon it's launch... it's now the top selling handheld even though the vita is much more powerful. My guess is the Wii U will come in a strong second this gen, but I've learned never to count them out.
I'm not sure where that crack came from though. I never said anything about Nintendo's console being the best this go around, I just meant that from what we know thus far, the new xbox certainly isn't any less ridiculous in terms of media message and direction.
Live fee's raised dramatically from the xbox one... err I mean xbox "classic" to the 360. If they do get cable partnerships, expect the cost to be ridiculously high. Because as you know, there are no teirs in a gold membership..... if you want to run ANYTHING internet related, they charge you for all of it.
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For whatever reason I was holding out hope that even if disc-based stuff wouldn't play on the next gen of consoles, the digital (XBLA) stuff would. Sadly (but not surprisingly) I was wrong. Between backwards compatibility going to the wayside, the need for an online connection (which means that a server somewhere has to be active for the systems to work properly), and games that are "locked" to accounts.... I fear that it will be harder to preserve the next generation of games, compared to the Intellevision-PS2 age when any game still works as long as the hardware itself is functional.
I am a late adopter (still no PS3), hate the fact that I probably won't be able to pick up and play $5 used Xbox One games in a couple years. I see myself more likely to put money into a Steambox, Ouya, or retro consoles than any of the three consoles that will be on the market this year.
The Xbox One (Xbone) news is still fresh but I kinda get the negative backlash I am seeing all over.
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So PC gamers will have nothing to worry about. Unless it is a PC port in the first place... :laugh2:
Not sure where you've been living, but the era of pc games coming out first then then being down-ported to the consoles is long gone. Nearly every top-tier pc release in the last 5 years or so has been a port of a 360 game. The graphics are better certainly, but they are limited in terms of scope/ect to whatever will fit on the 360. You have companies like Capcom and Sega that release their pc ports sometimes a full year after the console release, which not much improvement to justify the wait. This is why pc gaming has been in a huge slump.
So unfortunately, a bad console generation effects the whole industry. At least the Wii U has some actual games slated for release.
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For whatever reason I was holding out hope that even if disc-based stuff wouldn't play on the next gen of consoles, the digital (XBLA) stuff would. Sadly (but not surprisingly) I was wrong. Between backwards compatibility going to the wayside, the need for an online connection (which means that a server somewhere has to be active for the systems to work properly), and games that are "locked" to accounts.... I fear that it will be harder to preserve the next generation of games, compared to the Intellevision-PS2 age when any game still works as long as the hardware itself is functional.
I am a late adopter (still no PS3), hate the fact that I probably won't be able to pick up and play $5 used Xbox One games in a couple years. I see myself more likely to put money into a Steambox, Ouya, or retro consoles than any of the three consoles that will be on the market this year.
The Xbox One (Xbone) news is still fresh but I kinda get the negative backlash I am seeing all over.
I didn't even touch on that stuff because it's such an utterly stupid and ridiculous business model that there's no way it could be true. I'm expecting that part to be cleared up somewhat at E3. If all the speculation IS true they are doomed.
I blame this on the gaming community at large.... when these digital download options started popping up I warned everyone not to do it. The reason is money talks..... Microsoft wouldn't try to charge you twice for the same game if they didn't have research based on test programs that show you DO pay twice for the same damn game. I still buy a cd when I want music, because I OWN that cd and as long as it doesn't get scratched I can play it on any media player.
Convenience like direct downloading comes at the rather expensive price of retailers realizing that they can make more money by selling and inferior product and dumping their physical media.
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why is it called xbox1? sounds kinda retarded considering we already had an xbox1 before I modded hundreds of those lol. what was wrong with xbox720? that would have been just fine.
I dont even know what it looks like. maybe I will google it. or not :dunno
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I dont even know what it looks like. maybe I will google it. or not :dunno
Google "black rectangle." There ya go -- both the PS4 and the X-Box One.
The more I see of it, the more I think I'm going to sit this gen out, at least for the first year or three. Plenty of great (and now easily affordable) games to catch up on in the meantime.
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lol@ the controller. thats a HUGE BISH :banghead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KbWgUO-Rqcw# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KbWgUO-Rqcw#)!
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Xbox^3 (read xboxcubed) would have made more sense and be less confusing in conversation. Lets hope this time around the heatsink has a fan on it to prevent overheating though with all the software blunders I don't see that happening.
From what I've read about installation its something like this (somewhat quoted from a wired article):
Disc installation mandatory
..when you buy an Xbox One game, you'll get a unique code that you enter when you install that game. You'll have to connect to the Internet in order to authorize that code, and the code can only be used once. Once you use it, that game will then be linked to your Xbox Live account. "It sits on your harddrive and you have permission to play that game as long as you’d like," Harrison said.
Other users on the console will be able to play that game as well, Harrison said. So you don't need to buy multiple games per family. "With the built-in parental controls of the system it is shared among the users of the device," he said.
To summarize: Microsoft pretty much went anticonsumer/pro publisher, Gamestop is cut out of the loop unless you need the actual disc to be able to purchase the pass to install the game (doubtful), forced kinect on everyone, forced more media/social aspects, will probably force more ads in the dashboard while still charging monthly fees, and probably a bunch more that they plan to hide until release day.
edit-more confusion since that nelson guy says you can trade and sell games at retail, perhaps even resell the license over live to someone, and if you have your profile on a friends xbox you can play the game on it. Somehow microsoft PR has managed to contradict itself.
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I had this huge long rant going until I realized it was just too long and far too rambling.
In a nutshell, my thinking is as follows:
A) Hardware should be designed to do one (or two) things and one thing well. A printer and a scanner should be a great printer and a great scanner. I'm not too fond of my printer+scanner (it sits under my desk, disused). The same goes for my truck, the van, my game consoles, the TV, my ovens, my wife, whatever. Naturally, there are exceptions, Swiss Army knifes, shotguns, house boats, etc. But the exceptions do not make the norm and very rarely ever replace dedicated things outright. And as complex as modern game consoles are, Microsoft and Sony have both lost focus. Designing great gaming hardware for which great gaming software can be created.
B) For the first time since I was a tot, I am completely and totally underwhelmed with the new consoles. I am disappointed that the company is trying to make the console the panacea of the home entertainment center. I am disappointed at the over-the-top steps they have taken to ensure DMCA and increasing cash flow. I am disappointed with the overly intrusive GUI's on both systems (Microsoft is much worse). And I am especially disappointed with the artificially enforced requirements (Kinect, always online, game registration).
Try as I might, I just can't get excited about the new consoles. I really can't. I read the articles. I look at the pictures and all I can think of, is how disappointing my kids futures will be. Having to wade through this dark time in gaming because of the immense load of ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- being foisted on consumers.
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The #1 thing I am looking for clarification on before I make my decision is the rumor about games being locked to consoles, or not being able to buy/sell used games.
Beyond nostalgia, there's a reason why I'm into casual games: They don't (usually) require a large time commitment. I have very little disposable time, and I don't have 60-70 hours to play a console game. I generally get a console, will borrow a game from someone, it'll sit around for 2 months, then I'll finally get a chance to play it, like it, and buy it. The cycle works like this for me.
The rumor has been that basically you buy a game disc, it has some kind of one-use activation code, and once you've used it it's dead. No bringing a game to a friend's house. No carrying the disc from your downstairs to your upstairs console. No buying used games.
If that happens, there is literally zero chance of me buying it. Period.
I'm with Howard. I 100% agreed with his warning about DLC. Now, you can't even get a smartphone game without it telling you "You've exhausted your plays for the day. Pay $9.99 for 1000 more coins/smurfberries/tokens/whatever". It's garbage, it's totally diluting the whole market, and it's REALLY pissing me off.
:soapbox:
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Meh. All of the consoles will sell, no matter what retarded set up they have (eg: gotta be online to work). Why? Younger generations are NOT us. They are used to a different model of buying stuff. Yes, there is a large segment of buyers who are old folk like us, but you don't design mod cons for geriatrics ;D
Now get offa my lawn!
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Being a microsoft fanboi, I wont be buying this console. I wont be getting a WiiU. I wont be getting a PS4. They will still sell and make billions in hardware and software, but none of it will be mine. I have tons of games for numerous systems to play and I dont really care about the next call of duty or madden, so I should be ok for quite a while. A new console set up is about $500 after you buy extra controllers and some games, I look at that and think "I could get a couple of arcade machines" :cheers:
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BUY BUY BUY I must have slightly better graphics than last gen console!!!!!!
My ps3 and wii both are paper weights these days, so I'll resist. Until my kids beg me for one, there's no point.
I will say though if the xbox uno can play all my media as easily as my htpc/xbmc and replace my ps3/blu-ray, then it's somewhat intriguing.
I am sure the average BYOAC'er has 10K plus games in his or her collection not including current gen console.
Agreed
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Wow, over an hour for the "launch" and only around 8-10 minutes of actual content. Smurf the mandatory Kinect as I have to unplug mine when watching movies as the POS will issue commands......even when it's "off" in the xbox settings.
They pretty much glossed over everything technical which is what I wanted......wasn't interested in the EA and CoD handjob.
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A) Hardware should be designed to do one (or two) things and one thing well. A printer and a scanner should be a great printer and a great scanner. I'm not too fond of my printer+scanner (it sits under my desk, disused). The same goes for my truck, the van, my game consoles, the TV, my ovens, my wife, whatever. Naturally, there are exceptions, Swiss Army knifes, shotguns, house boats, etc.
Dude's wife should only do one thing and do it really well but his shotgun is best used for multiple purposes.
Awesome.
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Color me disenfranchised.
I won't re-iterate what has already been said, but all of it is true. Locking down content in the way that both of the new systems are, is just paving the way for a "pay to play" model where, at some point, they start giving away start up content ("demos"), and start charging hourly, or "per play" beyond the demo level. The cloud based setup facilitates this. These machines are designed from the ground up to be nothing more than a recurring revenue generator. A "slot machine" in your living room, as it were. I would have said Arcade machine, but that is giving it too much credit. Oh, and you get to pay for the hardware (dearly) that will keep sucking at your bank account. And the system gets to watch you play, along with whatever else you may be doing. You can't even unplug the damned camera. "Big Brother" is here.
Meh. Time to start buying up used 360 and PS3 games to make sure there's no reason to ever look at these abominations again. Too harsh? :)
About the only good thing about this generation is that it will open the doors to indie hardware and software in ways which were never before possible, mainly because people will now be looking harder for alternatives.
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In regards to EA dropping support for the Wii U, it all starts to make sense. They proudly announced that they'd remove their online pass system. Why? Because now Microsoft has a built in online pass system and it's rumored that EA will charge an additional fee and/or get a cut of M$'s fee. So why would they support a console that requires the internet service to be free and doesn't allow online pass systems when they can join team rip-off and charge you for the same damn game twice! :banghead:
I found this yesterday. I pretty much sums up my feeling about the thing. I laughed my butt off, and then I got sad because I realized that everything he said was in no way an exaggeration.
Francis Discusses the Xbox One Reveal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyD1VlQdj2s#ws)
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I found this yesterday. I pretty much sums up my feeling about the thing. I laughed my butt off, and then I got sad because I realized that everything he said was in no way an exaggeration.
Francis Discusses the Xbox One Reveal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyD1VlQdj2s#ws)
Haha, that was amusing.......till you realize he's right. :badmood:
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boy, that wii-u is looking better and better. :-\
xbox1 - the cable box that also plays games.
yes, we have that with the 360. you can get "telus TV" on your 360. (here anyways i dunno about anywhere else.) but yeah, just what i want... to watch TV. SMH.
no backwards compatibility - that's a bummer.
mediocre graphics improvement. - meh, I play most of my games on PC. bla bla bla PC master race yadda yadda. but it's true.
charged a fee for used games to enable them on the console. - that's a killer for me. big brother aside, there is no reason for that but to appease the game companies. so you charge to buy a game, charge to play the game online, then if i transfer my user agreement to someone else...which legally I'm allowed to do...you charge them to play it too? to top it all off, the copy on my console ceases to work? F-off Microsoft. you have enough of my money that's for sure. this is the end of this cash cow. Your nickle and dimeing the consumers ends here. You'd best re-think your business model.
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You know, I never thought I would say this, but if the ps4 is reasonably priced, I might get one of those instead.
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You know, I never thought I would say this, but if the ps4 is reasonably priced, I might get one of those instead.
From the sound of it, that would pretty much be out of the frying pan...er, um, back into the frying pan. Everything I dislike about the PS4 has reared it's ugly head on this thing. The sad thing is, MS actually had a chance to differentiate itself, and claim to be the system for gamers. Instead, they chose to do a "hey, let's create a situation where there is no option for consumers, and if they want the shiny-new-repackaged-tired-genres, we can force them to do what lines our collective pockets".
I shall choose to abstain.
BTW, that video was great. He had me going until about half way through. :)
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I don't think the ps4 is as bad in terms of drm, fees, ect.... That's what has me worried. Yeah crap like mandatory Kinect and hdmi in are stupid, but if I can own physical copies of games I could deal with it.
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... I quite liked it ...
And the name ... Intended to mean one device, not first device. Like the one ring to rule them all in lotr...
I'd be surprised if they pull off the tv provider integration, but I can see the benefits if they do. The kids already like to use the iPad in conjunction with the X factor type shows, with a surface or windows phone it could be much tighter.
Always online isn't needed for single player games or media playback. Thats just what we have now, surely
I'll get one, but I'll make a lens cap of some sort .. An always on, internet connected cam in the living room? No thanks
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I wouldn't be surprised if Time Warner was the first to jump on this, just like they did with the Sega Channel BITD.
Here in Canada, one of the cable companies in the west named Telus had already adopted watching TV through Xbox 360 via "Optik TV". if I remember correctly they had a promotion a couple years ago that bundled a free 360 with any newly signed accounts.
Not sure if this service happened in the States, I'm too lazy to google it, but technically it's not a new thing. It's just more prominent in M$'s marketing now: they're trying to grab the TV generation who all have gaming kids now.
The battle for your living-room is on!
I've said it elsewhere, but if it were any time for Sega to get back into the hardware market, now would be the time. C'mon Sega, make a console for the real gamers!
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And the name ... Intended to mean one device, not first device. Like the one ring to rule them all in lotr...
Oh cool, a reason for me to like it even less!
Much like Randy, I think I'll abstain for the "next generation" of consoles.
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Don't real gamers use PCs these days? The games are way, way cheaper. They are cheaper on day one and they fall in price, much, much faster. There are generally no subscription fees. The available PC library is much, much larger than any console. The console hardware is basically obsolete compared to PC hardware on launch day, much less years down the road.
Sure, the consoles have some exclusive titles, big whoop, the PC does as well. There are more quality games released every year than I could ever hope to play anyway.
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Not really. The average cost of a game console is 300 bucks. That's a decent amount of money, but you are guaranteed to have it last you at least 5 years. You could easily spend 1000 on a pc only to have it obsolete a couple of years later. The library is larger, but it's a different library. Most console games don't get a pc release, or like I said, the release is long after the console version came out.
Also you've got steam, drm, mandatory installs, ect to deal with on the pc. The whole concept of a console is you put in the disc and it plays..... no hassle, no wasted time. Of course the Xbox1 is no better than a pc in that regard based on what we've heard.
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Yet current-gen gaming mimics PC gaming with installing, updates/patches, subscription services, etc...it's become PC gaming lite.
Though, with the stuff M$ and Sony is pulling, I may just forgo this gen and spend my money on a good PC that'll last me at least those precious 2 years. But boy, they will be a glorious 2 years. :lol
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Not really. The average cost of a game console is 300 bucks. That's a decent amount of money, but you are guaranteed to have it last you at least 5 years. You could easily spend 1000 on a pc only to have it obsolete a couple of years later.
That may be the average cost at this stage of the game, but certainly not once these hit the market. The $1000 PC might end up "obsolete" in the PC realm in a couple of years (although doubtful, based in the pace of innovation) but that doesn't mean that new games won't run on it anymore. It will be as much machine as it was when you bought it. If you have to turn down some elements of the new games in order to play them, then so be it. Those elements probably don't even exist on the console version.
It's not probable that the 5 year old console with less capable hardware will somehow out pace the PC. Not to mention that older games will run full tilt on the snappy new hardware without breaking a sweat.
But, not everything on consoles is on the PC, so if that is troublesome, what choice is there?
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Gaming PCs have much longer lifespans these days now that developers have to think seriously about dumbed down console and mobile platforms for their titles. My gaming PC is now 5 years old. I have replaced the video card once or twice, but it is otherwise basically as it left the factory 5 years ago, and it still more than meets the system requirements for games that have come out this year. In fact, it still outspecs some of the brand new budget systems I could go out and buy new right now. I'll probably get another year out of it for new titles before developers start targeting the next gen consoles heavily at which point I will need to upgrade.
Sure, every console has exclusives. But the PC actually has more of them than any of the consoles do. Granted, PC exclusives mostly fall into the realm of indy, budget, casual and MMO but those are still major portions of the gaming market.
Now that console games are seriously starting to get into the area of DRM and accounts and non-transferable games they have pretty much lost their last major selling point over the PC. Not that I consider Steam difficult, honestly it is easier than dealing with real disks, much easier. Sure I can't resell the games, but 90 percent of my game library was purchased for such a fraction of what console games cost that it just isn't an issue.
Sure a lot of developers launch the console versions first? So what? All that does is lets me know 6 months in advance if the game is going to be any good or not.
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Sure, every console has exclusives. But the PC actually has more of them than any of the consoles do. Granted, PC exclusives mostly fall into the realm of indy, budget, casual and MMO but those are still major portions of the gaming market.
Well that's the problem right there. Most console gamers (myself included) couldn't give a crap about mmo's and indie stuff. So they are exclusives to be certain, but exclusives that don't matter to the console gamer. Let's put it this way, you are never going to see Mario, Zelda or Metroid.... or Halo (at least not anymore) or any of your more famous Sony exclusives on the PC. THAT is what is troubling because these are the top selling games of all time.
I've said it in another thread, although I'm fully satisfied with my purchase of the Wii U, I knew that it was going to be a slow start... but I bought it anyway because I had to. Why? Because I love Mario Zelda and Metroid, and if I want to continue playing those games I have to get the latest system. I honestly can't think of a single pc title that I feel that way about or for that matter have ever felt about since I first got a pc decades ago.
The only ones I can think of got console ports, because if you want to hit a larger market, you sell your game on a console, so all the greats like Doom Portal ect... they are all available on consoles. Mind you I prefer to play these titles on the pc, but I just happen to have had a pc powerful enough to play these games when they were released, I wouldn't go out and buy a pc just to play them.
Sure a lot of developers launch the console versions first? So what? All that does is lets me know 6 months in advance if the game is going to be any good or not.
That doesn't work for me, or a lot of people really. It's like trying to watch a movie a year after it's released... unless you stick your fingers in your ears for that length of time, somebody will spoil some or all of the best parts of the game for you. And of course the community surrounding the game is often dead by then.
I think what I took offense to is the fact that you said the "hardcore" play on the pc, which is utterly ridiculous. Many hardcore titles are Nintendo titles like Zelda, Metroid and the 2d Marios, and those aren't released on the pc. WOW and FPS (aka brown and gray town) can have hardcore players, but that's only two genres.
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This gives us some breathing room to go back and enjoy all those games we have in our collection.
Amen brother. I just tidied up my game room and have been blasting Metropolis Street Racer on the Dreamcast. Last night some 1080 on N64 (",)
(I have since tidied up the cables a bit :duckhunt )
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In this day and age, why cannot we have just one cable?
Because a device that tries to do everything rarely does any of them very well.
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Francis Discusses the Xbox One Reveal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyD1VlQdj2s#ws)
I was waiting for him to start singing Numa numa :(
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Now the Wii basically lives on another planet as the rest of the gaming world and doesn't really compare well with Xbox, Playstation and PC, it is like an apples and oranges thing. I'll agree it has some very worthy exclusive titles.
But, Xbox, Playstation and PC all tend to have an absolutely massive title overlap, particularly amongst the big titles that people seem to care about and in that world the PC is easily the system of choice. In fact, a serious gamer who buys a lot of games would save so much money by going primarily PC that you could easily just buy that other console for the exclusives you miss on PC and still come out ahead.
I am generally not a big fan of buying all your games on release date. I think it is absolutely the way to get the very least for your gaming dollar. I usually wait a year and buy that $60 console release for $10 on steam. I can't say that I have every had a game spoiled by buying it later than release, however I have ultimately felt like a chump about most of the games I bought on release day only to see them for half price or less long before I every complete them.
Sure, every console has exclusives. But the PC actually has more of them than any of the consoles do. Granted, PC exclusives mostly fall into the realm of indy, budget, casual and MMO but those are still major portions of the gaming market.
Well that's the problem right there. Most console gamers (myself included) couldn't give a crap about mmo's and indie stuff. So they are exclusives to be certain, but exclusives that don't matter to the console gamer. Let's put it this way, you are never going to see Mario, Zelda or Metroid.... or Halo (at least not anymore) or any of your more famous Sony exclusives on the PC. THAT is what is troubling because these are the top selling games of all time.
I've said it in another thread, although I'm fully satisfied with my purchase of the Wii U, I knew that it was going to be a slow start... but I bought it anyway because I had to. Why? Because I love Mario Zelda and Metroid, and if I want to continue playing those games I have to get the latest system. I honestly can't think of a single pc title that I feel that way about or for that matter have ever felt about since I first got a pc decades ago.
The only ones I can think of got console ports, because if you want to hit a larger market, you sell your game on a console, so all the greats like Doom Portal ect... they are all available on consoles. Mind you I prefer to play these titles on the pc, but I just happen to have had a pc powerful enough to play these games when they were released, I wouldn't go out and buy a pc just to play them.
Sure a lot of developers launch the console versions first? So what? All that does is lets me know 6 months in advance if the game is going to be any good or not.
That doesn't work for me, or a lot of people really. It's like trying to watch a movie a year after it's released... unless you stick your fingers in your ears for that length of time, somebody will spoil some or all of the best parts of the game for you. And of course the community surrounding the game is often dead by then.
I think what I took offense to is the fact that you said the "hardcore" play on the pc, which is utterly ridiculous. Many hardcore titles are Nintendo titles like Zelda, Metroid and the 2d Marios, and those aren't released on the pc. WOW and FPS (aka brown and gray town) can have hardcore players, but that's only two genres.
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I dont support of any of the virtual account games with anything including pc and by the sounds of these it will be console's too.
if they need to be online and do what others stated with a 1 install on your machine only I will never buy a current console again period.
that will totally crush the gaming market in the long run.
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A couple comments about PC gaming:
If I am to consider cost of a console vs cost of a gaming PC I also have to consider that I would need a non gaming PC anyway. So If I am going to buy a halfway decent PC for doing all my computing tasks its gonna cost $500 ish. Add the cost of the console ($300) and I am up to what I paid for my gaming PC three and a half years ago.
I plan on using it for at least another year and then my daughter will inherit it. so I'm getting good value for my $800.
next:
Trends in PC gaming are going away from physical media. Part of that sucks in that I don't have a disc to own and to install whenever I wish, but there are other counter benefits, as in now I can install this game wherever I am (if the PC can handle it). The downside remains that I can't give or sell it to anyone else. but I also never loose it in some forgotten box in the garage either. any time I want to play an old title I can re-download it and play. My examples are mostly based on steam which I have grudgingly accepted more and more over the past few years. I move my box of old PC disks around the garage from time to time but I rarely try to play them. I am finally willing to call this a draw between the two arguments.
Console manufacturers still haven't totally figured it out yet though. I might buy a downloaded game for $10 but I'll never buy a one time license of a game for $60. I don't buy new console games as it is...I buy used...If I can't buy used games I won't buy the system. period.
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I actually can't believe the new generation of consoles is even using physical media at all. It has got to be because of the "can't keep my life together enough even to manage a debit card" crowd, who seem to heavily prefer consoles.
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I actually can't believe the new generation of consoles is even using physical media at all. It has got to be because of the "can't keep my life together enough even to manage a debit card" crowd, who seem to heavily prefer consoles.
I manage to pay a mortgage every month, car payment too, and I'm saving up for my wedding. I still prefer physical media.
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I actually can't believe the new generation of consoles is even using physical media at all. It has got to be because of the "can't keep my life together enough even to manage a debit card" crowd, who seem to heavily prefer consoles.
paige, I mean this in the nicest possible way. If you are a real gamer and don't prefer physical media, you need to change your mind immediately because your preference is detrimental to the gaming community.
If you have a physical copy of a game you OWN that copy, if you get a downloadable title you own it for as long as your evil overlords give you the privilege of owning it.
The reason retro-gaming exists is because people held on to their old carts and they were eventually dumped. Without physical, unrestricted, media... preservation is doomed. Heck forget preservation for the masses, PERSONAL preservation is doomed. I've got a stack of NES carts behind me. If my NES dies, I can hop on ebay, even 30 years after the fact, by a new console and be back in business. Heck I can buy a NEW retro-duo and play them that way if for some reason the old hardware would fall off the face of the earth. You can't do that with the new digital restrictions.
I've never even been in debt before, the reason is because I'm responsible with my money aka I don't waste it to pay to not own a game.
And people don't seem to get that if you get a physical copy of a game, you get a digital copy as well.... you get off your lazy butt, download a ripping program, usually press a single button and you are done. Is it legal? Probably not, but it certainly isn't immoral.
I run into this argument with digital music as well. People say "but it's more convenient to have it in digital form" I agree... that's why when I buy a CD the first thing I do is insert it into my computer, it asks me if I want to rip it, and I say "yes" I then sync my media player (which I'd have to do anyway) and I'm done.
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I actually can't believe the new generation of consoles is even using physical media at all. It has got to be because of the "can't keep my life together enough even to manage a debit card" crowd, who seem to heavily prefer consoles.
paige, I mean this in the nicest possible way. If you are a real gamer and don't prefer physical media, you need to change your mind immediately because your preference is detrimental to the gaming community.
If you have a physical copy of a game you OWN that copy, if you get a downloadable title you own it for as long as your evil overlords give you the privilege of owning it.
The reason retro-gaming exists is because people held on to their old carts and they were eventually dumped. Without physical, unrestricted, media... preservation is doomed. Heck forget preservation for the masses, PERSONAL preservation is doomed. I've got a stack of NES carts behind me. If my NES dies, I can hop on ebay, even 30 years after the fact, by a new console and be back in business. Heck I can buy a NEW retro-duo and play them that way if for some reason the old hardware would fall off the face of the earth. You can't do that with the new digital restrictions.
I've never even been in debt before, the reason is because I'm responsible with my money aka I don't waste it to pay to not own a game.
And people don't seem to get that if you get a physical copy of a game, you get a digital copy as well.... you get off your lazy butt, download a ripping program, usually press a single button and you are done. Is it legal? Probably not, but it certainly isn't immoral.
I run into this argument with digital music as well. People say "but it's more convenient to have it in digital form" I agree... that's why when I buy a CD the first thing I do is insert it into my computer, it asks me if I want to rip it, and I say "yes" I then sync my media player (which I'd have to do anyway) and I'm done.
I agree with your points but one could always copy the game files/music downloaded to a dvd/cd as a backup. The limiting factor is whether you need to login to a drm-like online service that has sales often to play the games or if the music is in a file format that can only be read by authorized players or something.
Not including a disc drive would hurt them in the long run for several reasons. People such as myself wouldn't want to waste bandwidth downloading something that would take up what pitiful harddrive space microsoft decides to put in the system. I could upgrade that harddrive for an inflated cost (unless they use an off the shelf hd that one could acquire and flash firmware to like the 360 allowed) or delete previously downloaded games only to have to redownload later when I want to play them again. Since these are now media centers not having a disc drive would also mean not being able to watch movies, play music discs, or whatever else hip youngsters use them for. Yeah publishers could increase profits by going download only when they have no media burning or shipping expenses for however many copies people download but that would only fly if the infrastructure could support all of America downloading CoD69 without the servers collapsing day one.
I'm curious what sort of cut per system sold Sony gets for licensing the blu ray drive now.
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I dont support of any of the virtual account games with anything including pc and by the sounds of these it will be console's too.
if they need to be online and do what others stated with a 1 install on your machine only I will never buy a current console again period.
that will totally crush the gaming market in the long run.
I think you are wrong. Like I say, us geriatrics may not like it, but mod cons aren't designed for old coots, but young up and comers. The younger crowd are more comfortable with all these imaginary goods that you and I find anathema. We might not like it, but 60 years ago people just like us were grumbling about the demise of steam trains...
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I actually can't believe the new generation of consoles is even using physical media at all. It has got to be because of the "can't keep my life together enough even to manage a debit card" crowd, who seem to heavily prefer consoles.
I have always greatly preferred consoles over PC games. I spend 50 hours a week on a PC in the course of my job. Why on Earth would I want to go home and sit down at another PC?
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I have always greatly preferred consoles over PC games. I spend 50 hours a week on a PC in the course of my job. Why on Earth would I want to go home and sit down at another PC?
I think this way...until the better interface and controls and easy access to new cool games sucks me back in.
I go through days where I don't want to look at a PC after work but especially since I now play my PC games on my couch all comfy and such I don't find much time for the consoles.
I sure own them all now though...glorified Netflix players...
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the way I see it, going "discless" and "always on" is going to pave the way for the console manufacturer to one day release a game that is either controversial to a sect of people or have hidden objectionable content and they will kill your game remotely.
of course on the bright side, once we verify with the kinect that the person actually playing the game is underage, they can disable it...keep the little --bags of cream-filled twinkies-- off battlefield and call of duty.
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of course on the bright side, once we verify with the kinect that the person actually playing the game is underage, they can disable it...keep the little --bags of cream-filled twinkies-- off battlefield and call of duty.
As much as I hate being cussed at by a twelve year old, I see that idea as scary. An always on, online system with a mandatory identifying camera and voice recognizing microphone pointed at you is just too 1984 for my taste. Even if M$ can manage to keep anyone from hacking these and remotely spying on our living rooms, I think the biometric data it captures would be harder to keep others from getting a hold of. At first, they will justify it as surveying the demographic players of their game, but who knows who our data will be sold off to over time.
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There's no way that would end up in anything other than a major class action litigation.
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There's no way that would end up in anything other than a major class action litigation.
FREE XBOXONES FOR EVERYBODY!
wait...NO!
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I never claimed I really liked the idea of physical media vanishing on consoles. I am merely astonished by the fact that the next generation consoles are still using physical media at all.
However the switch away from physical media in PC games hasn't really bothered me at all. There never seemed to be a big PC game collecting scene in the first place and not having physical media is actually a huge bonus with PC games in some ways. With your physical PC games there isn't much chance of an update after a couple years as the game just isn't on the shelf anymore and isn't making the developer any money, and you certainly aren't going to get updates to 10 year old games to make them run on new operating systems. However with the games sold digitally the game manufacturer has a continual trickle of income from Steam (or whatever) on their old titles, and it can actually be worth their while to stick a programmer on doing an update on an old game that stopped working on the latest OS just to keep that trickle of income coming in.
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There's no way that would end up in anything other than a major class action litigation.
Due to revised user agreements following the playstation network fiasco you are not allowed to enter into a class action lawsuit against microsoft with a minor exception if that.
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the way I see it, going "discless" and "always on" is going to pave the way for the console manufacturer to one day release a game that is either controversial to a sect of people or have hidden objectionable content and they will kill your game remotely.
This is just one of many beefs with this kind of system. A few years ago a developer was caught ripping off another developers game. A rather blatant ripoff. I downloaded that specific game because (not realizing it was a ripoff) it lacked ads. Besides the obvious copyright issues here, the game was simply yanked right off my system one the "issue" was discovered. I have a backup copy somewhere but I haven't bothered with sideloading it. The problem was I didn't get a warning. No message. Nothing. One day it just disappeared.
A similar event occurred about a year later when another developer did the same thing but inserted trojans. They were forcefully yanked from people. This time around I didn't get the pirated copies, but the point is this is a feature I'm not overly fond of but recognize the value if the company uses it within reason.
Companies as large as Microsoft and Sony will continue pushing DRM limits. What if both companies release a new console and on those consoles they re-release AAA titles? Now what if they decide to disable those AAA titles on the classics? (Disney does this with their films. Wait for one of their classics to be rereleased in the theater then try to find a copy in the stores) Disabling a title due to offensive material or some hidden sex scene is just the tip of the iceberg. Nearly everyone is hitting excellent valid points but I think we're just imagining small potatoes. In less than ten... five? years time the gaming landscape is going to be unrecognizable and I don't think it's going to be good in the long run. This isn't bitching about steam engines going away this is more like the DOT banning the sale of every vehicle, period. But the DOT will allow you to rent your vehicles.
I'm sure there will be all sorts of counter arguments to that analogy but they're missing the point. I own my vehicles and I happily pay all the maintenance costs because I can do what I want when I want. If I rent I dont have to pay maintenance costs but I'm at the mercy of the will of the companies. Open bed pickups get banned no more rentals..... but since I own it, I and every truck owner happily thumb our noses.
I and everyone else recognize the advantages and disadvantages of one over the other and that is why the market supports both. But Sony and Microsoft only see $$ and whatever means to maximize those profits even if it means alienating the owners.
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FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU, requirements to buy more licences if you have too many people watching a movie?
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220120278904%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120278904&RS=DN/20120278904 (http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220120278904%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120278904&RS=DN/20120278904)
A content presentation system and method allowing content providers to regulate the presentation of content on a per-user-view basis. Content is distributed an associated license option on the number of individual consumers or viewers allowed to consume the content. Consumers are presented with a content selection and a choice of licenses allowing consumption of the content. The users consuming the content on a display device are monitored so that if the number of user-views licensed is exceeded, remedial action may be taken.
neighbor kids come over for a movie night...
I'm sorry, Dave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qnd-hdmgfk#)
since this thing "plays" TV, want to watch the football game with your buds?
I'm sorry, Dave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qnd-hdmgfk#)
they also don't specify what "content" is therefore it seems to reason, that if you haven't purchased a game... and you go to your friends house to try it out...
I'm sorry, Dave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qnd-hdmgfk#)
This sounds just a little too perfect for kinect2 system here, what with it's facial recognition tech and all. But even if it's not implemented, it's there and available for them to drop in without notice. What kind of communist corporate pleasing BS is this? It seems the masters of deception will always mix truth with BS to make it more palatable. I'm f'n done.
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I have historically preferred physical media, but over the past 5 years or so I'm beginning to embrace digital. It's a tough tradeoff. If I kept physical copies of every game I've played I'd have to buy a storage unit and build an auto-fetching robot linked to my custom database. Same with books. I overwhelmingly prefer them for fiction, but non-fiction? Not so much. The older I get the more stuff I have to lug around with me. If I can remove four cubic feet of clutter from my office by embracing digital I'm okay with it.
I'll never buy another console if this trend continues. I still love my Wii, but I game primarily on my PC.
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It's crazy but many of my friends have quit the whole superbowl party ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. We realized none of actually cared to watch football, we all were there for the excessive amounts of food.
But I can see how that would put a huge kink in our usual viewing habits. Not just in sports but in whole swaths of private viewing. With the "six strikes" law in full effect there is going to be a growing number of families dumping their entertainment centers. Could this have the unintended consequence that we'll reverse the trend of absolute stupidity rife in our society?
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I'm going back to VHS and audio tape. at least they can't track me that way.
[/TINFOILHAT]
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FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU, requirements to buy more licences if you have too many people watching a movie?
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220120278904%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120278904&RS=DN/20120278904 (http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220120278904%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120278904&RS=DN/20120278904)
A content presentation system and method allowing content providers to regulate the presentation of content on a per-user-view basis. Content is distributed an associated license option on the number of individual consumers or viewers allowed to consume the content. Consumers are presented with a content selection and a choice of licenses allowing consumption of the content. The users consuming the content on a display device are monitored so that if the number of user-views licensed is exceeded, remedial action may be taken.
neighbor kids come over for a movie night...
This sounds just a little too perfect for kinect2 system here, what with it's facial recognition tech and all. But even if it's not implemented, it's there and available for them to drop in without notice. What kind of communist corporate pleasing BS is this? It seems the masters of deception will always mix truth with BS to make it more palatable. I'm f'n done.
Easily circumvented. You can stay on the sofa. I'll hide behind the sofa, only peeking the top of my head over the back. Savannah can stand where the lamp is and put the shade on his head, as if he were drunk. We can probably make it think he's a lamp! One person on each side of the TV so they're practically viewing it at a 180 degree angle. Throw in a bunch of mirrors, and we can relay the image to other areas of the room for more people.
See how easy that was? :D
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Sure it might be easily circumvented by why should there be the need to circumvent it in the first place ! -- Until consumers wise up and stop supporting companies that try to force this kind of thing on us they'll keep coming p with more and more of this stupid DRM stuff -- Let your money talk and stop buying the things and if enough people do the same maybe they'll reconsider things. :dunno
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There's no way that would end up in anything other than a major class action litigation.
Due to revised user agreements following the playstation network fiasco you are not allowed to enter into a class action lawsuit against microsoft with a minor exception if that.
Sure you can. Just don't accept the user agreement before entering the litigation. Only people who voluntarily accept those terms can be excluded.
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There's no way that would end up in anything other than a major class action litigation.
Due to revised user agreements following the playstation network fiasco you are not allowed to enter into a class action lawsuit against microsoft with a minor exception if that.
Sure you can. Just don't accept the user agreement before entering the litigation. Only people who voluntarily accept those terms can be excluded.
except "by opening the package you agree to the terms and services". how can one agree to a contract they cannot read? Better yet how can one agree to a contract if no one can verify it actually took place. Seems every other contract must be signed, and in some cases witnessed so it can be verified that you do in fact agree to the contact.
it's like the cartoons and television shows where they get a signature, then slide a new will out of the envelope.
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The existence of text on the package does not guarantee it will stand up to a court challenge. That's exactly the type of question that a judge would probably look at the physical packaging and be like "---smurfette---, please, this is stupid" and disregard.
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The existence of text on the package does not guarantee it will stand up to a court challenge. That's exactly the type of question that a judge would probably look at the physical packaging and be like "---smurfette---, please, this is stupid" and disregard.
yes, it's stupid...yet...there it is. :banghead:
makes me wonder sometimes.
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As ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- as some of this stuff looks, at least its not anywhere near as ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- as the Wii U is. :lol
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As ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- as some of this stuff looks, at least its not anywhere as ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- as the Wii U is. :lol
i take it you are prepared to defend that statement?
i see less wrong with the wii-u than the xbox.
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For all its downfalls and problems its still going to have all (most) the best games. Think about stuff like elder scrolls, GTA, dam any new potentially awesome ips that will not make it to Wii U. I'm not sure what people really expect these days and while I agree the presentation sucked but its still most likely going to make for a pretty sweet gaming machine.
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I like to play older games or else I wouldn't be on this forum. Does anyone realize that with the continuing move towards internet verification, cloud based storage and online play there won't be any games preserved in the near future? As soon as less people play, companies will drop support and the game will be dead. The golden age of video games will be over as soon as you can only play the newest games, supported on the newest consoles. You can already see the trend in XBox One and PS4. They claim to support used games but when they shut down the verification servers there won"t be any way to play the game legally.
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The existence of text on the package does not guarantee it will stand up to a court challenge. That's exactly the type of question that a judge would probably look at the physical packaging and be like "---smurfette---, please, this is stupid" and disregard.
I'm of the opinion that most judges are biased and bribed in most cases. The real question is can anything it record be admissible as evidence? ;)
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There's no way that would end up in anything other than a major class action litigation.
Due to revised user agreements following the playstation network fiasco you are not allowed to enter into a class action lawsuit against microsoft with a minor exception if that.
Sure you can. Just don't accept the user agreement before entering the litigation. Only people who voluntarily accept those terms can be excluded.
except "by opening the package you agree to the terms and services". how can one agree to a contract they cannot read? Better yet how can one agree to a contract if no one can verify it actually took place. Seems every other contract must be signed, and in some cases witnessed so it can be verified that you do in fact agree to the contact.
it's like the cartoons and television shows where they get a signature, then slide a new will out of the envelope.
The "you agree by opening" has already been tried, tested and thrown out of court in California. You can't coerce anyone to agree to anything that the consumer can't read prior to agreeing. IIRC the first suit was against CompUSA and they lost miserably.
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Think about stuff like elder scrolls, GTA, dam any new potentially awesome ips that will not make it to Wii U.
Think about stuff like elder scrolls, GTA, dam any new potentially awesome ips that will not make it to Wii U.
chances are, if you are purchasing a wii-u, you aren't particularly interested in these type of games. You are on the lookout for mariocart, zelda ,and super mario...not god of war.
There's no way that would end up in anything other than a major class action litigation.
Due to revised user agreements following the playstation network fiasco you are not allowed to enter into a class action lawsuit against microsoft with a minor exception if that.
Sure you can. Just don't accept the user agreement before entering the litigation. Only people who voluntarily accept those terms can be excluded.
except "by opening the package you agree to the terms and services". how can one agree to a contract they cannot read? Better yet how can one agree to a contract if no one can verify it actually took place. Seems every other contract must be signed, and in some cases witnessed so it can be verified that you do in fact agree to the contact.
it's like the cartoons and television shows where they get a signature, then slide a new will out of the envelope.
The "you agree by opening" has already been tried, tested and thrown out of court in California. You can't coerce anyone to agree to anything that the consumer can't read prior to agreeing. IIRC the first suit was against CompUSA and they lost miserably.
in theory if you opened the system and found a peper TOS or set it up and turn it on and are confronted by a TOS that you must agree to at boot... you can box it up and return it no questions asked.
TOS's are full of BS anyways. things like they can cut you off without notice...you can't open or change the system (because you don't own anything anymore acording to the TOS)... you can't sue them...they can change the terms anytime they like. Companies do all sorts of shady ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, especially when it comes down to getting money.
i guess if it really comes down to it, you could buy an xbox, open the machine and modify it with your own software and not violate the TOS since you did not agree to it.
how about used machines? I was not presented with a TOS. Does that mean I'm exempt for it's limitations?
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how about used machines? I was not presented with a TOS. Does that mean I'm exempt for it's limitations?
IANAL, but "perhaps". On the flip side, however, without agreeing to their TOS, they also likely do not have any responsibility to you to do anything which makes that machine function. If everything it does is tied to a remote "cloud" server, it will be a boat anchor without that support. Also, if any use of the used machine is seen to infringe on an authors ability to control "presentation" of their copyrighted works, the DMCA kicks in to cover that, and they probably even have the right to take corrective action. In the end, you are left with a machine which is not more capable than a good PC, so you might as well skip the BS and just go that route.
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i suppose you are right, one could only hope that before they shut down the servers for good, they would release a system update that would fix?break? the system so it dodn't need to verify all the time.
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i suppose you are right, one could only hope that before they shut down the servers for good, they would release a system update that would fix?break? the system so it dodn't need to verify all the time.
Unfortunately doing that costs $ and if the company is shutting down chances are they aren't gonna spend that kind of $ for something they aren't gonna be around to profit from, plus they tend to not give you much warning when shutting down since they want to get sales up to the final minutes (most times even the employees paid to keep things going do not know until the switch is turned off) So chances are that isn't gonna happen !
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw)
This should sum up the XboxOne
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flip flop flip flop. "you can't just turn off DRM bla bla bla" then turns it off. ::)
still not interested, although it seems all the fanboys are now splacking in anticipation now that the DRM has been "turned off" :lol you wait...next year they will flick it back on and EVERYONE will cry butthurt.
traitors. you only get one chance. now you want us to wash our hands in your dirty water. no thank you.
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still not interested, although it seems all the fanboys are now splacking in anticipation now that the DRM has been "turned off" :lol you wait...next year they will flick it back on and EVERYONE will cry butthurt.
You mean like Sony did with the Linux availability at the beginning of the PS3's life? Granted, it only pissed off a few people, but they still did it.
It certainly makes the decision harder for the next gen if and when I get one, but I think IP may play a role. I was leaning PS4 before, still am. But I have a loooooong time before I consider a new one.
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i'll revisit the next gen consoles next year...or later. basically when i'm satisfied they are stable in all the farting around they will do with them...and we know what their plans for feeding you BS are.
until then, i'm quite happy with my master race PC for gaming.