The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Everything Else => Topic started by: Donkbaca on April 29, 2011, 02:08:59 pm
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This will settle it. TOP 25 games for my mame cab.
Rules: below is 75 games. If you want to participate, you either:
1) delete one game; or
2) delete 2 games and add one.
MAME games only. Once we get to 25 , we'll have a fairly consensus top 25 games for your mame Cab. My initial list is for games that use joys/spinners/trackball, so no driving games or light gun games for simplicity sake.
In no particular order:
1 - pacman
2 - galaga
3 - defender
4 - asteroids
5 - ms pac man
6 - donkey kong
7 - double dragon
8 - rampage
9 - centipede
10 - frogger
11 - space invaders
12 - stargate
13 - tron
14 - missile command
15 - tempest
16 - gyruss
17 - marble madness
19 - crystal castles
20 - robotron
21 - 1943
22 - r-type
23 - black tiger
24 - raiden
25 - joust
26 - ninja gaiden
27 - Battle toads
28 - Street Fighter II
29 - Street Fighter II CE
30 - Mortal Kombat
31 - Mortal Kombat II
32 - Ultimate Mortal Kombat III
33 - Tekken 3
34 - Samurai Showdown
35 - Samurai Showdown II
36 - Samurai Showdown III
37 - Samurai Showdown IV
38 - Samurai Showdown V
39 - Street Fighter Alpha
40 - Street Fighter Alpha II
41 - Street Fighter Alpha III
42 - Super Street Fighter II: New Challengers
43 - Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
44 - Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
45 - Puzzle Bobble
46 - Bust a move
47 - Metal Slug
48 - Metal Slug 2
49 - Metal Slug 3
50 - Metal Slug 4
51 - Metal Slug 5
52 - Metal Slug X
53 - Xmen
54 - x-men children of the atom
55 - marvel super heroes
56 - marvel super heroes v street fighter
57 - marvel v capcom
58 - golden tee 2k
59 - silver strike bowling
60 - sunset riders
61 - captain commando
62 - knights of the round
63 - gauntlet
64 - punch out
65 - aliens v predator
66 - Kung FU Master
67 - Shinobi
68 - Splatterhouse
69 - Final Fight
70 - super baseball 2020
71 - pigskin 621 AD
72 - Arch Rivals
73 - NBA Jam TE
74 - 2 on 2 open ice challenge
75 - Ghosts and Goblins
Some notes: Yeah I missed out a lot but admittedly I lost steam at about 20 and went half assed from there, but hey that's what you are here to do, fill out and trim my list.
Now when someone says "such and such is NOT a classic" I can pull out this list and call ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.
Thanks
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This will settle it.
I admire your optimism. ;D
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It will settle it for me. Honest, that is just how I roll.
Now Mr. Saint. are you gonna contribute?
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Delete two fighters of your choice (do you really need 20 odd fighters?) and add back DoDonPatchi (or a sequel)
Delete two more fighters and add back star wars.
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I cannot contribute because I consider all of them classics. However I could say that you should combine all Street Fighter II variants as just plain Street Fighter II because they are all the same game with added characters and/or adjusted speed.
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It will settle it for me. Honest, that is just how I roll.
Now Mr. Saint. are you gonna contribute?
Working on my list now.
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This will settle it.
I admire your optimism. ;D
Agreed ... I don't see how this can result in a single list that can be called definitive as I would expect some repeat swapping as the Golden Agers and JAMMA Generation alternate posting.
I am interested, however, to see what happens, particularly since a number of games really can't be played well without proper controls (Tron, Star Wars, Asteroids, Defender and Stargate come to mind -- if I didn't have a suitable CP layout, I wouldn't want them on my MAME cab).
EDIT: I should mention that I do believe that the best list of the 50 Greatest Arcade Games can be found in Gozer's Bits, Sticks and Buttons (http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/2010021) (which is now available in hardcover!) -- it is, to my mind, a fair representation across all arcade history (through to 2005!).
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Now when someone says "such and such is NOT a classic" I can pull out this list and call ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.
Weren't you the person who was calling games out as NOT being a classic ? :dizzy:
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I would pull out a few of them Street Fighter variants and replace them with Golden Axe.
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I keep wanting to buy that book, but then I forget what it was called.... LOL... Ordering my copy this week.
This will settle it.
I admire your optimism. ;D
Agreed ... I don't see how this can result in a single list that can be called definitive as I would expect some repeat swapping as the Golden Agers and JAMMA Generation alternate posting.
I am interested, however, to see what happens, particularly since a number of games really can't be played well without proper controls (Tron, Star Wars, Asteroids, Defender and Stargate come to mind -- if I didn't have a suitable CP layout, I wouldn't want them on my MAME cab).
EDIT: I should mention that I do believe that the best list of the 50 Greatest Arcade Games can be found in Gozer's Bits, Sticks and Buttons (http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/2010021) (which is now available in hardcover!) -- it is, to my mind, a fair representation across all arcade history (through to 2005!).
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Mario Bros.
Crazy Climber
Dig Dug
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OK - I tried to follow your rules about nuke 2 to add 1, and mostly did but somewhere in the middle it got fuzzy so here's my list. I have more favorites I'd have on there as well, but trying to follow the posted constraints it comes down to :
1 - Altered Beast
2 - Bagman
3 - Berzerk
4 - Bubble Bobble
5 - BurgerTime
6 - Centipede
7 - Chiller
8 - Crystal Castles
9 - DigDug
10 - Discs Of Tron
11 - Donkey Kong
12 - Donkey Kong Jr.
13 - Dragon's Lair
14 - Empire Strikes Back
15 - frogger
16 - galaga
17 - gauntlet
18 - Gauntlet Legends
19 - Ghosts and Goblins
20 - Gorf
21 - gyruss
22 - Indiana Jones
23 - joust
24 - JumpBug
25 - Jungle Hunt
26 - Kangaroo
27 - Mappy
28 - Marble Madness
29 - Moon Patrol
30 - Ms. PacMan
31 - pacman
32 - Pitfall II
33 - Popeye
34 - Qbert
35 - Qix
36 - Quartet
37 - Rampage
38 - Robotron
39 - Simpsons
40 - Sinistar
41 - Space Ace
42 - Space Harrier
43 - space invaders
44 - Spy Hunter
45 - StarWars
46 - Tapper
47 - tempest
48 - TMNT
49 - Tron
50 - Tutankham
51 - Wizard Of Wor
52 - Xevious
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Still no Golden Axe...
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Okay some clarification:
Take my list, copy it, delete 2 add 1, or just delete one. So list looks like this:
1 - pacman
2 - galaga
3 - defender
4 - asteroids
5 - ms pac man
6 - donkey kong
7 - double dragon
8 - rampage
9 - centipede
10 - frogger
11 - space invaders
12 - stargate
13 - tron
14 - missile command
15 - tempest
16 - gyruss
17 - marble madness
19 - crystal castles
20 - robotron
21 - 1943
22 - r-type
23 - black tiger
24 - raiden
25 - joust
26 - ninja gaiden
27 - Battle toads
28 - Street Fighter II
29 - Street Fighter II CE
30 - Mortal Kombat
31 - Mortal Kombat II
32 - Ultimate Mortal Kombat III
33 - Tekken 3
34 - Samurai Showdown
35 - Samurai Showdown II
36 - Samurai Showdown III
37 - Samurai Showdown IV
38 - Samurai Showdown V
39 - Street Fighter Alpha
40 - Street Fighter Alpha II
41 - Street Fighter Alpha III
42 - Super Street Fighter II: New Challengers
43 - Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
44 - Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
45 - Puzzle Bobble
46 - Bust a move
47 - Metal Slug
48 - Metal Slug 2
49 - Metal Slug 3
50 - Metal Slug 4
51 - Metal Slug 5
52 - Metal Slug X
53 - Xmen
54 - x-men children of the atom
55 - marvel super heroes
56 - marvel super heroes v street fighter
57 - marvel v capcom
58 - golden tee 2k
59 - silver strike bowling
60 - sunset riders
61 - captain commando
62 - knights of the round
63 - gauntlet
64 - punch out
65 - aliens v predator
66 - Kung FU Master
67 - Shinobi
68 - Splatterhouse
69 - Final Fight
70 - super baseball 2020
71 - pigskin 621 AD
72 - Arch Rivals
73 - NBA Jam TE
74 - 2 on 2 open ice challenge
75 - Ghosts and Goblins
first poster should do this:
- Primal Rage
3 - defender
4 - asteroids
5 - ms pac man
6 - donkey kong
7 - double dragon
8 - rampage
9 - centipede
10 - frogger
11 - space invaders
12 - stargate
13 - tron
14 - missile command
15 - tempest
16 - gyruss
17 - marble madness
19 - crystal castles
20 - robotron
21 - 1943
22 - r-type
23 - black tiger
24 - raiden
25 - joust
26 - ninja gaiden
27 - Battle toads
28 - Street Fighter II
29 - Street Fighter II CE
30 - Mortal Kombat
31 - Mortal Kombat II
32 - Ultimate Mortal Kombat III
33 - Tekken 3
34 - Samurai Showdown
35 - Samurai Showdown II
36 - Samurai Showdown III
37 - Samurai Showdown IV
38 - Samurai Showdown V
39 - Street Fighter Alpha
40 - Street Fighter Alpha II
41 - Street Fighter Alpha III
42 - Super Street Fighter II: New Challengers
43 - Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
44 - Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
45 - Puzzle Bobble
46 - Bust a move
47 - Metal Slug
48 - Metal Slug 2
49 - Metal Slug 3
50 - Metal Slug 4
51 - Metal Slug 5
52 - Metal Slug X
53 - Xmen
54 - x-men children of the atom
55 - marvel super heroes
56 - marvel super heroes v street fighter
57 - marvel v capcom
58 - golden tee 2k
59 - silver strike bowling
60 - sunset riders
61 - captain commando
62 - knights of the round
63 - gauntlet
64 - punch out
65 - aliens v predator
66 - Kung FU Master
67 - Shinobi
68 - Splatterhouse
69 - Final Fight
70 - super baseball 2020
71 - pigskin 621 AD
72 - Arch Rivals
73 - NBA Jam TE
74 - 2 on 2 open ice challenge
75 - Ghosts and Goblins
Note: Deleted pacman and galaga, added primal rage.
So now we are down to 74 games. After 50 posts, we should be down to 25.
Next Person, copy the list, deltes primal rage, and NBa Jam, adds back galaga. Now we are down to 73.
Make sense?
Once we are down to 25, there will have been a lot of adding and deleting and we should have a pretty solid 25.
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If you do it this way, you're going to end up with a bunch of substitutions where people deleted 2, added 1, then someone else doesn't agree with what they added. Doesn't mean it's a "agreed upon" list. I much prefer the list that Saint posted over what was started with.
Also out of all the members on the forums, and the various viewpoints of "classic", the demographic of viewpoints will change by the minute of who's logged on.
I think the best way to settle this is a questionaire of ALL MAME games, everyone submitts then you tally a BYOAC top 25 list for 2011 or something annually.
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Not to make things difficult, but what is stopping me from deleting Pacman and Donkey Kong and adding Snacks 'n Jackson? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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LOL
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Damn you Vigo. . . . .stop sending the Snacks 'n Jackson subliminal messenges! Now I need to go home and play this game! Is it in MAME?
Just looked at the KLOV, is Jaxson a precursor to inspector gadget? I'm horrified now
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No Golden Axe, or Marvel vs Capcom 2?!?! Cmon. I think all the Metal Slugs should be wrapped into one, same with Samurai Showdown. Like Bootay mentioned with the SF2 games, they are virtually the same. And why does everyone have a hard on for Star Wars? There has never been a version of star wars that I found fun in the arcades.
And no T-Mek?! What is this blasphemy?! ;D
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Damn you Vigo. . . . .stop sending the Snacks 'n Jackson subliminal messenges! Now I need to go home and play this game! Is it in MAME?
Just looked at the KLOV, is Jaxson a precursor to inspector gadget? I'm horrified now
:laugh2: I consider Snacks 'n Jackson to be the most bizarre arcade game concept ever. Here is how the developers described the game in the game flyer:
SNACKS'N JACKSON is a unique game built around a clown who tries to eat his way through life without letting his nose break any windows.
:lol
Also, I think its time for an avatar change! ;D
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1 - pacman
2 - galaga
3 - defender
4 - asteroids
Battle Garegga
7 - double dragon
rampage world tour
Three Wonders
Bubble Bobble
Super Qix
16 - gyruss
Ketsui
20 - robotron
Silk Worm
23 - black tiger
24 - raiden
Rolling Thunder
Ninja Kid II
25 - joust
Psychic 5
Gemini Wing
Solomon's Key
Shock Troopers
P-47 Aces
Blazing Star
Progear
Twin Hawk
44 - Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
Puzzle De Pon
47 - Metal Slug
49 - Metal Slug 3
Gun Force 2
52 - Metal Slug X
Time Pilot
Cabal
DoDonpachi
ESP Ra.De.
sunset riders
King Of Dragons
Batsugun (Special Version)
Argus No Senshi (Rygar - Japan)
Shinobi
Flying Shark
Twin Cobra
Quiz & Dragons
Ghouls & Ghosts
:cheers:
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Damn you Vigo. . . . .stop sending the Snacks 'n Jackson subliminal messenges! Now I need to go home and play this game! Is it in MAME?
Just looked at the KLOV, is Jaxson a precursor to inspector gadget? I'm horrified now
:laugh2: I consider Snacks 'n Jackson to be the most bizarre arcade game concept ever. Here is how the developers described the game in the game flyer:
SNACKS'N JACKSON is a unique game built around a clown who tries to eat his way through life without letting his nose break any windows.
:lol
Also, I think its time for an avatar change! ;D
Oh, I forgot to answer your question...yeah, it's in MAME.
I made a double dragon mame cab for my brother's birthday, and when we unveiled it, I had snacks 'n jackson playing on it. I didn't tell him it was a mame cab, but rather that I got a hold of an arcade cabinet for him, but it was converted into a snacks n' jackson. He was trying so hard to be polite about it when playing snacks n' jackson because he thought I was serious. :lol
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No Golden Axe, or Marvel vs Capcom 2?!?! Cmon. I think all the Metal Slugs should be wrapped into one, same with Samurai Showdown. Like Bootay mentioned with the SF2 games, they are virtually the same. And why does everyone have a hard on for Star Wars? There has never been a version of star wars that I found fun in the arcades.
And no T-Mek?! What is this blasphemy?! ;D
Star Wars was revolutionary for it's time. Blasphemer! ;D
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There's gotta be a better way to do this.......
The polling option on this forum lets you allow a certain number of votes per person.
Does it only allow you to vote for each option once or could you use all 25 votes on one game?
If it only allows one vote per option, people could be given 25 votes and vote for the 25 games they think belong in the top 25.
The top vote getters are your top 25.
You'd also need to be able to edit it to add more games as they're requested.
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look, I am just looking for some help.. Jeez, this is like herding cats....
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look, I am just looking for some help.. Jeez, this is like herding cats....
(http://www.zuschlogin.com/content/blogimages/CatHerding5.jpg)
And, what you are looking for is unobtainable -- somehow you think that you are going to come up with a list of 25 CLASSICS (translated in full Xiaou2) that it definitive.
It is foolish to even try -- first, there aren't just 25 classics. Gozer had trouble coming up with a list of 50 and he and his crew have far more knowledge than most here.
You can tell me that Centipede is not a classic, but you don't exactly have an abundance of credibility with which to back that statement. Particularly since virtually every assembled list of classics includes Centipede. I don't like Centipede and am really bad at it. Neither fact changes the fact that it is a classic for a number of reasons, not the least of which was that promo poster.
At the end of the day, people like the games that they like.
I happen to love early Atari games -- most of which I never actually had an opportunity to play in the arcade, which is in complete violation of your "it's just nostalgia" theory.
Let it go and play some StreetFighterEleventyPurpleTeletubbyEdition.
;)
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nope, I am just interested in seeing what shakes out. Just want people to copy, paste, add and delete. All i am asking for is some group think to come up with a list. Shouldn't be that hard to copy, paste, add delete....
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CLASSICS (translated in full Xiaou2)
WIN! :lol
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MAME games only. Once we get to 25 , we'll have a fairly consensus top 25 games for your mame Cab. My initial list is for games that use joys/spinners/trackball, so no driving games or light gun games for simplicity sake.
Now when someone says "such and such is NOT a classic" I can pull out this list and call ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.
This should be good. Might as well add favorite foods and best brand of underpants mixed right in with the games in the list for all the good its going to do. :lol
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Why not do what VH1 did with their Top 100 [X] of All Time series? Have everyone list top 25 in order, assign a score based a rank, tally and deliver the results. Especially considering my definitive list includes gems like "I'm Sorry" and "Escape from the Planet of the Robot Monsters".
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The problem is that person X, who loves shooters, will take off some games and add more shooters that THEY like. Then, person Y, who hates shooters, will take those games off and put on his favorites. Ultimately, the list will evolve, but it will only be as good as the last person who manipulates it. And if that person only likes fighting games, it's not going to measure anything.
The VH1-style list would be a better metric.
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Why not do what VH1 did with their Top 100 [X] of All Time series? Have everyone list top 25 in order, assign a score based a rank, tally and deliver the results. Especially considering my definitive list includes gems like "I'm Sorry" and "Escape from the Planet of the Robot Monsters".
THIS sounds like the solution, I'd be interested in seing a somewhat "definitive" list, it would actually help with MAME cabs too I think as it would be a good judge of what generally people like so they have something to play when visiting ;D
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sigh... plan b... retreat back into my impenetrable belief bubble...
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sigh... plan b... retreat back into my impenetrable belief bubble...
It's safer and warmer in there.
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:)
Oh belief bubble, I will never leave you again!
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sigh... plan b... retreat back into my impenetrable belief bubble...
It's safer and warmer in there.
well its definitely warmer in there, I peed in it.
This thread was DooM'd (c wut I did thar?) from the start because of the title. Interesting concept though.
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Pehaps the mods could make some voting scenario up with all the mame games? It's only what 8500 choices?
I think Cheffo is correct. As much as many of us would like to see something of this nature, it's just too subjective and really unobtainable. Hell Vigo has been touting Snacks 'n Jaxson all day...
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Whats the deal with that ratings system on Maws? Weighted average?????
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Damn Malenko, I thought we were friends again and you go pissing in my belief bubble. Didn't mean for this to be some universal reference guide, more of a gauge of what others on the site thought so that maybe I go back and give some games that I ha written off another shot, or maybe discover some new gems. Doesn't look like it's gonna happen so I'm just going to go back to thinking I am right all the time...
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Why not just let people post their top 10 games instead, then compile a list from that? Also I'd like to say that just because a game is old, it's not a classic by default. My first arcade game experience was on Knuckle Joe. Do I have to put that piece of SMURF BISCUIT on my list then? Ever heard the phrase "instant classic"? I have a couple of games made AFTER 2000 that falls into that category. I much prefer to play those than say Black Tiger or Contra (as I always clear those games on one credit) as they give me a challenge.
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I think there was a thread here about 5 or 6 years ago where someone tried to do the same thing. I think it fizzled out because of the amount of work it was going to take to compile everyone's list.
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I think Cheffo is correct. As much as many of us would like to see something of this nature, it's just too subjective and really unobtainable. Hell Vigo has been touting Snacks 'n Jaxson all day...
That's because "Cheffo's right"! ;D
Another thing to consider is that many people will want games on their cabs that aren't classics.
I love Blue Print and Juno First -- both are great games (which I didn't play in the arcade!) and must be included in any vertical MAME cab in my house, but I wouldn't consider either of them to be classic.
Favourite game != Classic game
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Pehaps the mods could make some voting scenario up with all the mame games? It's only what 8500 choices?
I think Cheffo is correct. As much as many of us would like to see something of this nature, it's just too subjective and really unobtainable. Hell Vigo has been touting Snacks 'n Jaxson all day...
I guess the world is just not ready for the wonder that is Snacks 'n Jackson. Maybe someday it will take it's rightful place among the elite. :'(
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Why isn't Juno first a classic? A lot of people like it. It's on my list if games to explore
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Why isn't Juno first a classic? A lot of people like it. It's on my list if games to explore
It's a great game, but I've never heard of anybody calling it a classic.
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I guess the world is just not ready for the wonder that is Snacks 'n Jackson. Maybe someday it will take it's rightful place among the elite. :'(
You know I was saying Snacks 'n Jaxson really fast and it sounded like "Action Jackson". I thought perhaps there was a connection there but Action Jackson came out in 1988. Snacks 'n Jaxson came out in 1984. Pehaps there was an older "Action Jackson" series? It seems to be a parody of that.
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I just played Snacks'N Jackson. That's some crazy ass ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.
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Yes, they had some good drugs back in the 80's.
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These types of lists are the OPPOSITE of the definative list.
This was an idea spawned from PAX and so far everyone has absolutely HATED the lists each year creates.
You just can't make an ultimate list anyway as the games one person likes are not the same as those another person likes.
And as I've said in the past, a universally popular game means one of two things....
1. The game actually is good, so good that it transcends differences of opinion.
2. The game is super generic, practically forgettable. Because it's so generic most people don't hate it so it ends up doing well.
So you list would consist of both great games and games that simply don't suck.
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I think its a pretty democratic way to make a list, other than a "vote for the game you like" sort of deal. I like that better than a "so and so is a great game because so and so lists it as their top 75 of all time"
Anyhow, it was worth a shot.
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Donkbaca what if you took the games posted so far & then made a new similar thread with a master list (which you update) & people chime in with titles to add.
That way a member could first look @ the master list (the first post of the thread) & if they do not see their game then they can speak up with a contribution(s). If they post a game thats already on the list Saint can ban them >:D
Just a thought
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Many lists dont work merely out of age difference. A lot of the younger gamers refuse to play the older games out of prejudice about the looks. And or they just have never played even a fraction of the games the older gens have.
Its like asking a kid who just turned 8 yrs old today what his favorite movies, food, and games are. As far as being a critic goes... his votes really shouldnt count for much, as he has very little depth of experience.
Your list is Severely lacking in some of the best games out there Imop. Than again, for me, it would be very hard to assemble a short list. My short like would probably be 200 games long. Its pretty easy to find about 10 good/great games per each year... even more, in the 80s.
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Many older players remember games being better then they actually were, or refuse to acknowledge that games got deeper and more engaging later on.
I wouldn't equate 90's gamers to 8 year olds, considering street fighter 2 came out 19 years ago. Most of these gamers are in their 30's, they are smart people, run businesses, have families, they are more then capable of judging a video game on its merits.
My "list" was a half assed approach of just listing 75 games in the hopes that people would add and subtract and make something completely different. I was just interested in what the collective result would be.
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While I don't agree with Xiaou2's assessment, it is equally stupid to tell older players that they remember wrong, especially when they are actually playing those games today.
Most of those gamers are in the their 40s and have 90s gamers as employees.
::)
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Most of those gamers are in the their 40s and have 90s gamers as employees.
A LOT of of 90's gamers had to fire those people in their 40's during the economic downturn because they weren't able to evolve and keep up with the times. What does the ability to employ people have to do with one's ability to judge video games?
My point is, don't treat 90's gamers like they aren't adults capable of making objective decisions.
If these old games were so great, they still would be. The games have not changed, if younger people don't like them as much, its because they expect more from games, and they have a lot more in terms of choice. Take a game like "pitfall" loved that game when I was a kid. Now? Come on, its not that good. Some of them are, a lot of them aren't. Same with 90's games. A lot of the games people like so much are just the one's that happened to be around when they were kids. Everyone knows a big (probably biggest) part of this hobby is the nostalgia the games bring. If game x was at the corner 7-11, chances are I played it, and I liked it a lot, mostly because it was all I had to play. A lot of these games really aren't that good on their own merits.
If you like a game just because you like it, that's fine and valid, but if I don't like, that is also fine and valid. Chances are the reasons we differ in opinion have more to do with nostalgia then with gameplay.
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Pitfall is still good to me :dunno
Not everyone thinks like Xiaou2 (thank god) . I'm sure there are TONS of 8 year olds on this forum that buy and build arcade machines.
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If you like a game just because you like it, that's fine and valid, but if I don't like, that is also fine and valid. Chances are the reasons we differ in opinion have more to do with nostalgia then with gameplay.
You just can't let it go, can you ?
I like the games that I like, many of which I never played in the arcade (so nostalgia isn't the issue), because I like to play them.
It is stupid, arrogant, obnoxious, foolish, etc. of you and Xiaou2 to tell us why we like the games that we like.
I only made the employee remark because you were stupid enough to say that MOST gamers in their 30s run businesses.
I bet you have about as much proof of that as you do about your conclusions about games, which is about the same amount of proof that Xiaou2 has about anything that he says.
QED.
EDIT: Lew doesn't get to ---meecrob--- for anybody anymore!
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Many older players remember games being better then they actually were, or refuse to acknowledge that games got deeper and more engaging later on.
Are you sure about that? Funny cause a lot of guys are still playin the same games, own entire basements full of them, and still enjoy playing them. And their younger kids, who havent yet gotten a chip on their shoulders? Are enjoying them too.
Have games really changed? Not always so. As we have so noted, the gameplay on Robotron is actually more engaging with superior AI than Smash TV. Spy Hunter? Ive yet to see a similar game that has as complex of an AI, with so many possible & shocking outcomes. Asteroids Deluxe? No asteroids clone/remake to date is as good. Super Mario? The formula for its success has pretty much stayed the same since its creation.
Most of s games success is due to a good mathematical formula... such as the superior jump formula in Super Mario World, -vs- some other generic Platformer. It has nothing to do with age.
We can make a game as pretty, complex, and long as hell, but that doesnt mean its going to be better. Sometimes, a simpler game can be more fun, and hit the spot perfectly.
Its also often that a simple game thats excellent, gets updated, lengthened, sometimes even improved.
I wouldn't equate 90's gamers to 8 year olds, considering street fighter 2 came out 19 years ago. Most of these gamers are in their 30's, they are smart people, run businesses, have families, they are more then capable of judging a video game on its merits.
Anyone can be a judge. But can you judge without being biased? Can you see past the look of a game, and see the genius, and fun, of the gameplay?
I find it sad that you immediately take Assumption that I was saying that you
couldnt be a good judge. I merely was saying that a vote from younger people generally tends to be lacking due to both lack of experience playing the older games, and lack of ability to judge properly, without bias. Quite simply, when you approach a game with a negative attitude, its rare you are going to give it a fair shot.
My "list" was a half assed approach of just listing 75 games in the hopes that people would add and subtract and make something completely different. I was just interested in what the collective result would be.
I dont know what to tell you. If you cant even take your own list seriously, how do you think you will get any decent results out of it? And what happens when people start listing games you dont even want to give a chance? Do you actually care... or is this really just about you getting some personal validation that Your chosen generation of games is better?
My point is, don't treat 90's gamers like they aren't adults capable of making objective decisions.
- What about 2010 gamers? Gamers who have never played an arcade machine in their entire lives. Should we give them equal say in what games are good? Just because a game is from a newer period of time, doesnt mean its superior.
Personally, I play all games, 70s, 80s,90s, 2000... I play any game thats good. I dont have a bias. I dont lay claim a period of time like its some sort of Sports team. To me, it speaks VOLUMES about a person who does speak loudly about a period of time... and its Obvious that such a person isnt going to be as Objective as someone who isnt tied to a generation. I also find it funny, cause most of the programmers and creators who MADE your generations games, are from a completely different generation altogether. Many who have been in the industry for Ages, and who still to this day, enjoy elder classics.
If these old games were so great, they still would be.
Umm.. newsflash...They are. Firstly, you are on a site in which thousands of people here build mame cabs dedicated to playing the older classics.
I realize you kids think you are the center of the universe.. and that there was nothin but dirt behind you... but where do you think all those kids and adults from ages 6 to 80 ...from before years 1970 to +1990, all over the fricken GLOBE went?!
Millions of game fans, from many generations, all over the world have started with classic games... and have been playing games ever since. Some have been playing and or Making games since before you were born.
A little bit of research will reveal, that Classic games have the most remakes/reprograms and sequels, to date. Starting out in the arcade, ported to home computers, to elder console systems, to modern console systems, modern computers, handheld systems, pocket pcs / ipads, and beyond. Many of these games have been sold countless times over, and will continue to be sold and resold for years to come. MK5? I dont think so. Crysis? Nope.
A good game design "IS" eternal. Period.
(many of the modern games designs are simply ripped copies from the pasts PROVEN gameplay of the past games.)
The games have not changed, if younger people don't like them as much, its because they expect more from games, and they have a lot more in terms of choice.
I myself know thats not true, just as Ive stated that me, myself, have ignored some games from the past due to ignorance and judgment based on looks alone. Upon giving them a FAIR shake (not a 5 min toe-dip), Ive found more enjoyment in them than many of the more complex or graphically superior modern games.
As Ive said, take away all the pretty graphics, and see whats left. Most games are empty lifeless shells. And once you have beat them, you dont care if you ever play them again.
Take a game like "pitfall" loved that game when I was a kid. Now? Come on, its not that good. Some of them are, a lot of them aren't.
- I never cared for much Pitfall when I was a kid. Marios yes, Pitfall Nope. Maybe you liked it more merely cause all your buddies were bragging about having it, and raving about it?
Its memorable and special for what it was, because it pushed the 2600. But thats about it. Super Mario was on NES, and its still fun to play today.
The most basic arcade hardware was pretty much far superior to the NES (compare Pole Position to any console, and see how long it takes before they can replicate it anywhere near accurately) , so theres no use in comparing them to the 2600 games. Your simply reaching for the sake of reaching. Provide some REAL examples if you are going to argue a point.
And while some games have simple graphics.. such as MrDo, the level of gameplay in that game is pretty much hard to find in most games both old and new. Its one of those timeless games thats always fun and challenging.
Sure, you could add new graphics to it, put a hoppin new sound track to it, give him some more powerups, bosses, 100 levels, etc... but its still the same formula. Strip away all the extras, and you still have the same exact great playing game.
Same with 90's games. A lot of the games people like so much are just the one's that happened to be around when they were kids. Everyone knows a big (probably biggest) part of this hobby is the nostalgia the games bring. If game x was at the corner 7-11, chances are I played it, and I liked it a lot, mostly because it was all I had to play. A lot of these games really aren't that good on their own merits.
Actually, if you have never eaten steak, then you never will understand why everyone keeps telling you hotdogs suck comparatively. But as far as Nostolgia goes, your wrong.
When I grew up playing games in the arcade... if I didnt like it, I didnt play it. If I played it back then, it was cause I liked it, and Im still playing it today. I dont play games that I dont really care about.
Maybe you were unfortunate, being that there were few machines around to play... giving you little choice. Be I grew up in arcade heaven, where all the popular classics were bountiful.
And while I played many games on my crappy 2600 back in the day, I dont think there are more than 2 games that Id ever play on that system to this date. Nostalgia to me, and Im sure to many... is about reliving the good stuff.
Is Karate Champ a chump compared to MK3? In many ways yes. But, I could still pick up dual sticks and have great fun playing it. Its still a fun game, even as quirky as it is. Its a classic, not by nostalgia, but by the experience and fun you get out of it.. (as well as the historical significance of its time) Many Youth simply cant see past the quirks, graphics and limited depth to actually have fun with it and experience (& judge it) properly.
If you like a game just because you like it, that's fine and valid, but if I don't like, that is also fine and valid. Chances are the reasons we differ in opinion have more to do with nostalgia then with gameplay.
Well, I know some guys who cant stand Spy Hunter. Mostly because they suck at it, and dont want to put in the effort of getting enough skills to have fun playing it.
Then again, there are many modern gamers who simply hate difficulty or challenge of any kind. So the appeal of traditional classics, is pretty much out the window for them... as many classics are built upon a steep level of challenge.
Does a person who hates Spy Hunter because they feel its too hard, really deserve to rate that game? Personally I dont think so. And likewise, I dont think a guy whos never played a game like SFII should judge a fighter either.
What about those ppl who like Bullet-Hell shooters? Personally I cant stand them... but somehow, theres a huge fanbase of them.
In the end, Your list if Your own. Theres no way to accurately quantify a universally loved list. And your list can be as deep or shallow as you decide. Much of the time, limited by your own decisions, inflexibility, adaptability, desires... ego..etc. Much like how a fussy eater will only ever have a limited taste experience in their lives.
But its also about personal preference and the type of gamer you are.
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my list is simple:
Pacman
Ms.Pacman
Asteroid
Asteroid Deluxe
Galaxian
Galaga
Centipede
Millepede
Donkey Kong
World Class Bowling
any of those get played when I turn on the Machine.
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Thanks for treating us to yet another wall of text, X2. ::) Can you just post the cliff notes next time?
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Thanks for treating us to yet another wall of text, X2. ::) Can you just post the cliff notes next time?
:cheers:
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heres your cliff notes:
As we have so noted, the gameplay on Robotron is actually more engaging with superior AI than Smash TV.
No WE didnt.
some incoherent rambling how Super Mario is a great math game and how he likes simple games
some incoherent rambling about how anyone can judge but no one should cause everyone is biased.
some back tracking on the 8 yr old comment without actually admitting he was wrong.
a thinly veiled attempt at dissing DonkBaca
something about newer games arent better just because they are newer.
another incoherent rambling on how he isnt biased.......no mention of stern pinball.
more classic game ramblings
Many of these games have been sold countless times over, and will continue to be sold and resold for years to come. MK5? I dont think so. Crysis? Nope.
pause on the recap to retort, MK5? nope, but how many consoles and other ports were there of MK2, MK3, UMK3, and MKT? the MKs were on a couple of console midway collections, and XBOX live , and PSN, and PSP, and DS so MK is still being repackaged and resold. Allegedly, theres a MK Kollection due out late this year or early next that are HD redos of the old arcade games.
Everyone well rested? heres more!
A good game design "IS" eternal. Period.
more obvious statements, a recap on how he is biased towards games,
couple of blanket statements on how all modern games are empty shells, more mario love
Some love and hate for the 2600
yet another incoherent ramble on how updating an old game with more icing is a bad thing
90s games are hotdogs. Xiaou2 loves him some meat.
more hate for the 2600,(guess he never played Barnstorming)
He replies to my MK3 vs Karate champ thing like I was serious
People only hate Spy Hunter because they are bad at it
another blanket statement about modern gamers.
You can only judge fighting games if you played SFII
Lists are the devil.
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pause on the recap to retort, MK5? nope, but how many consoles and other ports were there of MK2, MK3, UMK3, and MKT? the MKs were on a couple of console midway collections, and XBOX live , and PSN, and PSP, and DS so MK is still being repackaged and resold. Allegedly, theres a MK Kollection due out late this year or early next that are HD redos of the old arcade games.
good point. Street Fighter 2 HD, pretty much launched SFIV.... don't see any moon patrol sequels on the horizon....
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good point. Street Fighter 2 HD, pretty much launched SFIV.... don't see any moon patrol sequels on the horizon....
There are over 50 Pokemon video games. By your stellar reasoning, they are the best! :dizzy:
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not my reasoning at all. Pay attention