The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: quanlee on February 03, 2011, 10:44:49 am
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I decided it's time to start my multi-williams project. I bought this non-working Joust arcade game last summer and it's been sitting in my garage since. My plan is to remove all of the existing electronics, monitor, and controls and replace it with a computer (mame) and new controls, new marquee, and control panel overlay, all similar to other Multi-Williams games I have seen. I hope to also have other horizontal type games work on it, like Asteroids, and Double Dragon.
Here's what I'm shooting for...
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/phoenixarcademwart.jpg)
The game appears to be intact, but when plugged in, does nothing. The monitor is very burned in, and the control panel is very rough with rips and cigarette burns. In fact when I openned op the control panel, there was a small pile of cigarette ashes that had accumulated through the joystick hole, I assume. The outside of the cabinet is in pretty good shape. My plan is to carefully take out the boards, monitor and controls, and find someone who might be interested in using them for their own project. Please contact me if you are interested in a trade.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-01-29_15-32-32_111.jpg) (http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-01-29_15-36-13_716.jpg) (http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-01-29_15-36-41_65.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-01-29_15-36-23_16.jpg) (http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-01-29_15-35-04_483.jpg) (http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-01-29_15-34-56_437.jpg)
Demolition begins... I carefully removed the boards, monitor, and most of the associated wiring. Unfortunately when I removed the monitor I noticed the paint is flaking off the bezel. It's not that noticible from the front, but with the monitor out you can definitely see it. I'll probably have to replace that.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-01-29_19-06-54_477.jpg) (http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-01-29_19-07-08_534.jpg) (http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-01-29_19-07-40_992.jpg) (http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-01-29_19-07-51_888.jpg) (http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-03_07-44-43_325.jpg)(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-03_07-45-09_319.jpg)
I ordered my buttons and joysticks from Paradise Arcade at www.paradisearcadeshop.com (http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com) (Plug!), I like the translucent buttons they have,
(http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/98-182-large/translucent-microswitch-pushbuttons.jpg)
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/98-translucent-microswitch-pushbuttons.html (http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/98-translucent-microswitch-pushbuttons.html)
and the joy sticks (JLF) have a base that is slimmer than others, which I think will help to get that reverse button as close as I can to the left joystick. I'm using a combination of red, yellow and white translucent buttons. I'm going to use a 19" (non-widescreen) LCD monitor. I used one for my last multi-game I did, and it turned out great. It makes the entire game lighter, and the LCD is very flexible with location and placement due to the size and weight.
Here's the monitor I bought on Ebay for $50.00, still waiting for it to be delivered. It's an HP F1905 19" LCD.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/HP%20Monitor.jpg)
I'm designing my own control panel overlay based on the other multi-williams machines I have seen. I want to modify mine slightly, I think the reverse button for defender needs to be closer to the left joystick. I'm also planning on having at least 2 buttons on the left side for other games that need each player to have two buttons. I'm planning on sending my design to a company that prints custom control panel overlays. I removed the lady with the broom / mop in the left lower corner and replaced it with a nice stencil image from Joust. Here is what I have so far.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/MW_CPO%20Lee%20v1.3.jpg)
I superimposed a Stargate control panel overlay over it to get the joystick / reversebutton placement right. I used a rectangle (not shown) the exact size of the JLF joystick base to ensure there would be enough clearance between the left joystick and the reverse button. Bingo...
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/MW%20to%20Stargate%20Reverse%20Button%20Location%20Compare.jpg)
My next step is to figure out a way to fill the holes in the control panel, and drill new ones. I also have to fill about 1/8" on the top of the control panel were I removed a steal plate that covered the entire panel. That steal plate had holes for the joystick, flap, and player buttons. I wasn't going to try to drill / fill that, so I removed it. I'm thinking I'm going to use some kind of wood filler, and a thin layer of oak or poplar over the top, glued. Then I'll sand the entire top smooth. I'm hoping it will end up being a very solid, single peice of wood that I can drill my holes in for sticks and buttons.
ANYONE HAVE ANY INPUT... FIRE AWAY.
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oh.... and just in case this subject comes up. I was very worried about destroying a perfectly good arcade machine. I actually own a Williams Stargate that is all original, and has not been modified like this. My Stargate has had it's issues, and is currently not working due to a RAM error, but I'm not going to toss in the towel on that one, it's worth it to keep it original, and not hack it up.
I found this Joust machine, didn't pay a dime for it, and it had no hopes of ever working again.... so I thought I would make something worth while out of it. Otherwise the owner was just going to pitch it. They also had a tempest machine I could have gotten for free, but I just didn't have room for it, and there was no way I was going to restore that one.
I'm not big on fixing boards and electronics, but I can do just about anything with a computer, so MAME is the way I'm going with this.
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oh.... and just in case this subject comes up. I was very worried about destroying a perfectly good arcade machine.
Oh yeah, the subjects coming up alright. Wow, you gotta be kidding me! ??? I apologize if this comes off a bit hostile...this isn't the first time I've complained about mamed up classics.
I've said it before, I know I know, in the end it's your machine and you can do whatever you want to it...BUT: It just breaks my heart to not see this restored back to original. Especially since the cabinet looks to be in really decent condition, and it's complete! Williams electronics aren't that difficult to troubleshoot and repair. They all seem to have the same problems.
I mean come on...it's a fricken' original JOUST! :banghead:
I found this Joust machine, didn't pay a dime for it, and it had no hopes of ever working again....
The game appears to be intact, but when plugged in, does nothing.
No lights at all on the PCB? Any noise, even high-pitched whining?
You might just have a shotty PS. Have you tried new fuses? Checked the connections? Perhaps a cap kit? Did you do any reading up on it at all?
The monitor is very burned in
Ok, so this one's a bit harder to fix, but you could replace the monitor with an 8-liner...or find another monitor used with less burn-in.
and the control panel is very rough with rips and cigarette burns. In fact when I openned op the control panel, there was a small pile of cigarette ashes that had accumulated through the joystick hole, I assume.
CP's are easy to replace/renew. A little bondo/wood filler, new CPO...clean up the joysticks and buttons...it would probably be a day's worth of work. You already stripped it, so most of the hard work is done already!
I don't know man, I'm just sad to see a legacy game like Joust be mamed up when you could bring this baby back to it's former glory. I also question keeping a Stargate intact over a Joust...but maybe you like that game better, so who am I to question. Just breaks my heart is all.
If anything, restore it back and put a Jrok board in it...or Multi-williams the Stargate instead! I guess there's no way of convincing you...again, in the end, it's your machine. I'll just watch and :cry:
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oh.... and just in case this subject comes up. I was very worried about destroying a perfectly good arcade machine.
Oh yeah, the subjects coming up alright. Wow, you gotta be kidding me! ??? I apologize if this comes off a bit hostile...this isn't the first time I've complained about mamed up classics.
I've said it before, I know I know, in the end it's your machine and you can do whatever you want to it...BUT: It just breaks my heart to not see this restored back to original. Especially since the cabinet looks to be in really decent condition, and it's complete! Williams electronics aren't that difficult to troubleshoot and repair. They all seem to have the same problems.
I mean come on...it's a fricken' original JOUST! :banghead:
I found this Joust machine, didn't pay a dime for it, and it had no hopes of ever working again....
The game appears to be intact, but when plugged in, does nothing.
No lights at all on the PCB? Any noise, even high-pitched whining?
You might just have a shotty PS. Have you tried new fuses? Checked the connections? Perhaps a cap kit? Did you do any reading up on it at all?
The monitor is very burned in
Ok, so this one's a bit harder to fix, but you could replace the monitor with an 8-liner...or find another monitor used with less burn-in.
and the control panel is very rough with rips and cigarette burns. In fact when I openned op the control panel, there was a small pile of cigarette ashes that had accumulated through the joystick hole, I assume.
CP's are easy to replace/renew. A little bondo/wood filler, new CPO...clean up the joysticks and buttons...it would probably be a day's worth of work. You already stripped it, so most of the hard work is done already!
I don't know man, I'm just sad to see a legacy game like Joust be mamed up when you could bring this baby back to it's former glory. I also question keeping a Stargate intact over a Joust...but maybe you like that game better, so who am I to question. Just breaks my heart is all.
If anything, restore it back and put a Jrok board in it...or Multi-williams the Stargate instead! I guess there's no way of convincing you...again, in the end, it's your machine. I'll just watch and :cry:
Yeah... I knew this was going to come up, not my first rodeo. :)
Let me address each concern, one at a time. First, when it was plugged in, it made a humming noise, no lights on the PCB. That's really irrelevant anyway, I had no interest in owning a dedicated Joust game. But.... if the cabinet / control panel was in better shape, I would have done something else with it, keeping it in original state. The person who owned it had no use for it and was about to send it off to a land fill, along with the Tempest they had.
I have a Stargate that has a RAM error that I've had fixed twice already, so Williams machines being simple.... well ok.
I'm planning on fixing the CP, just not dedicated to Joust. We will be able to play joust though, in fact I'm considering leaving most of the cabinet with the Joust deco... marquee, side art and so on.
As far as a Joust vs. Stargate, I grew up playing Stargate, and understand the value of keeping an original dedicated machine, that's why I own one.
I was very careful removing the PCB's, wiring, monitor and so on, in case someone who has a Joust machine they need to restore, or fix needs these parts. It would have been easy for me to simply pitch them, they really have no value to me.... it's not like they are bringing $$$$ on e-bay.
I wanted to create a Multi-Williams machine... makes perfect sense to start out with a Williams machine to begin with. I could have silently done this in my basement and not posted anything here (maybe I should have) but I thought it would be useful to others to see what I'm doing (or maybe not), and I'd like to find a good home for the Joust boards and other parts I have... YOU INTERESTED??
Oh... I also own a very nice Asteroids that is non-functional at this point. You wouldn't believe how pristine this thing is, I'll have to post some pictures. I've had that machine for 3 years, plan on fixing it at some point, and have NEVER considered maming it, that was another classic game, one of the first actually that I played as a kid. So.... Joust vs. Asteroids, I guess Asteroids won, Joust is getting re-purposed.
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The way I see it, he save a joust cabinet from the landfill and as such he has salvaged parts that will allow others who love joust to restore their machines. Its nice to see old cabs restored, but its better it live on as a williams multi than as landfill.
Just do the old joust cab righ ;) no franken panel, maybe a classics only cab would be sweet.
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I do agree that a restore and a multi williams board would be best, If your gonna make it a mult-williams anyway.
But it is your cabinet and you have the right to do as you see fit.
I hope the project comes out well. keep us posted on how its going.
I look forward to seeing the end results.
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I know I get it. In a landfill vs. maming scenario obviously maming is preferred. But if you're going to take the path of nobility, the noble thing to have done was return it to it's former glory. Or at least multi-board it.
Let me address each concern, one at a time. First, when it was plugged in, it made a humming noise, no lights on the PCB. That's really irrelevant anyway, I had no interest in owning a dedicated Joust game.
As far as a Joust vs. Stargate, I grew up playing Stargate, and understand the value of keeping an original dedicated machine, that's why I own one.
Yeah I figured so, based on your earlier posts. Like I said, I personally couldn't pick a SG over Joust, being that SG is a sequel to Defender and Joust being such an original and break-out title. But if Stargate is closer to your heart then that's your prerogative. I still get to complain though ;)
I'm planning on fixing the CP, just not dedicated to Joust. We will be able to play joust though, in fact I'm considering leaving most of the cabinet with the Joust deco... marquee, side art and so on.
That's good! I think that's a great idea. Say in the future if you ever decide to resell this machine, the buyer could at least recover the cabinet in the case they want to restore it to it's original state. Or you could still have the option of restoring it yourself if need be. (Jousts have great resale value)
I was very careful removing the PCB's, wiring, monitor and so on, in case someone who has a Joust machine they need to restore, or fix needs these parts. It would have been easy for me to simply pitch them, they really have no value to me.... it's not like they are bringing $$$$ on e-bay.
I wanted to create a Multi-Williams machine... makes perfect sense to start out with a Williams machine to begin with. I could have silently done this in my basement and not posted anything here (maybe I should have) but I thought it would be useful to others to see what I'm doing (or maybe not), and I'd like to find a good home for the Joust boards and other parts I have... YOU INTERESTED??
Ebay, maybe. But here or on KLOV, you'd probably have an easier time selling them. More-so KLOV since they're more original centric than BYOAC. At least that's what I've gathered frequenting both.
As for if I'm interested...truthfully I'd be more interested in the entire thing, because I would restore it (of course barring price and distance). I've actually been looking around my area for a cabinet lately, unfortunately no one around here is giving them away for free, or at reasonable prices! I not looking to piece one together, but rather start off with a complete or at least close to a complete situation.
I'll be watching your progress, and will help out and comment where I can. I hope that this goes without any road-bumps, would be a shame to take this path and not have it turn out the way you planned. :cheers:
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Good luck trying to either 1) find that particular MW bezel or 2) reproduce that (Clay's 6 in 1 MW) MW bezel on your own
Nobody sells that one anymore since it's been a looong time since the Clay kit was released. The CPO and marquee are no sweat but when/if you figure out the bezel, please post here!
Funny thing, I love Stargate as well and I got a water damaged Joust this summer to get parts to bring the Stargate back to life and now I'm refinishing the Joust cab into a joystick mame for a buddy.
IMO Williams boards may not be so "easy" to work on, Atari PCB setups have been much easier for me to work on.
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I received the used monitor I purchased on Ebay today, so I threw it in the cabinet to see how things fit. The LCD screen is bright and looks great behind the bezel. I'll have to either paint the front monitor frame black or just cover it with some black tape like I did in my Ms. Pacman. Once that's done, you won't see the silver frame behind the glass, it will look just like an original tube monitor, if not better. I'll have to figure out a slick way to mount the monitor in place so it's not moving around inside the cabinet.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-07_23-53-39_283.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-07_23-21-51_806.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-07_23-20-45_983.jpg)
I fired up the computer, connected the prototype control panel I'm working on, and turned on the monitor inside the cabinet. Not bad, but still needs some work. The control panel prototype was used to figure out my button placement, and get the USB interface from Paradise Arcade configured with MAME. Please ignore the fact that the prototype control panel is sitting on top of the original control panel (open). Once I get this all done the original control panel will go
back in place where it's supposed to be.
I spent about an hour tweaking the MAME video / display settings. The computer I'm using isn't great, it's a few years old so I had to tweak things just right so the animation speed was decent without skipping frames or causing the game to slow down when there was a lot of action ont he screen at one time.
Here's an interesting one for you... if you notice, I have a couple of very cheap 8 way joysticks on this prototype control panel (above). Those are not the sticks I'm planning on using, just a couple I had acquired in my dealings with other arcade enthusiasts. I fired up Ms. Pacman on this machine to see how the graphics speed compared to my other Ms. Pacman I own, and to my surprise the joystick worked great, even though it's an 8 way stick. What??? In my other MAME machine, my ultimarc IPac interface, along with the ultimarc 4/8 way joystick will not work for Ms. Pacman when in 8 way mode, when the stick is pushed into the corners, you lose all control of her. Anyone know why this is? The Paradise USB joystick / button interface seems to work fine, even with an 8 way stick???
Joust, Robotron, Defender, Stargate and a few other games worked great. The reverse button for Defender / Stargate is way too far away from the left stick. You can see the original hole for the reverse button closer to the stick, but I couldn't get a button in that hole, the joystick base was too big. The Paradise JLF stick I"m going to use in my final CP is narrower, so that won't be a problem.
Other games like Rolling Thunder and Gladiator worked great though... I played Gladiator for about an hour, love that game.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/gladiator_1.jpg)
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Oh yeah, the subjects coming up alright. Wow, you gotta be kidding me! ??? I apologize if this comes off a bit hostile...this isn't the first time I've complained about mamed up classics.
I've said it before, I know I know, in the end it's your machine and you can do whatever you want to it...BUT: It just breaks my heart to not see this restored back to original. Especially since the cabinet looks to be in really decent condition, and it's complete! Williams electronics aren't that difficult to troubleshoot and repair. They all seem to have the same problems.
I mean come on...it's a fricken' original JOUST! :banghead:
I think it's pretty tacky to gum up this guys project announcement with your opinion. There are more williams cabinets than there are joust boards. These are mass produced boxes of wood and he's tastefully converting it to a multi-williams. We've see a lot worse around here - maybe you should scurry over to one of those threads and make them feel bad. I think it's a fitting end to a cabinet and quanlee should be happy with it once it's complete.
Quan, I made the same mistake with a reverse button on my multi-williams. I could still play defender, but I think it held me back.
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Oh yeah, the subjects coming up alright. Wow, you gotta be kidding me! ??? I apologize if this comes off a bit hostile...this isn't the first time I've complained about mamed up classics.
I've said it before, I know I know, in the end it's your machine and you can do whatever you want to it...BUT: It just breaks my heart to not see this restored back to original. Especially since the cabinet looks to be in really decent condition, and it's complete! Williams electronics aren't that difficult to troubleshoot and repair. They all seem to have the same problems.
I mean come on...it's a fricken' original JOUST! :banghead:
I think it's pretty tacky to gum up this guys project announcement with your opinion. There are more williams cabinets than there are joust boards. These are mass produced boxes of wood and he's tastefully converting it to a multi-williams. We've see a lot worse around here - maybe you should scurry over to one of those threads and make them feel bad. I think it's a fitting end to a cabinet and quanlee should be happy with it once it's complete.
Quan, I made the same mistake with a reverse button on my multi-williams. I could still play defender, but I think it held me back.
Thanks! I appreciate the support. I know... the placement of the reverse button on most of the MW CPO's is odd, can't imagine hitting that with my thumb while keeping my hand on the left stick. But.. I think it's partially due to the size of the joystick base. I was lucky that the Paradise JLF (plug!) stick has a narrower base than most.
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I think it's pretty tacky to gum up this guys project announcement with your opinion. There are more williams cabinets than there are joust boards. These are mass produced boxes of wood and he's tastefully converting it to a multi-williams. We've see a lot worse around here - maybe you should scurry over to one of those threads and make them feel bad. I think it's a fitting end to a cabinet and quanlee should be happy with it once it's complete.
Hey now, I gave him my opinion in a pretty benign way, it was definitely less harsh than how some other guys here would word it. My intentions weren't to make him feel bad, and like he said, "it's not his first rodeo"...so I'm assuming his skin is thick enough to withstand some random jackass' opinion and comments. I felt that I should at least try to convince him to restore a classic, regardless of how common the cabinet is, but I failed that so there isn't much else to it. I've also offered my help after...
My apologies if I've offended you quanlee.
You've got some great progress going so far, and for the sake of "tastefully converting it", may I suggest you de-case that monitor and build a mount to secure it to the cabinet. It would make it more clean looking, and probably less painful to figure out a way of mounting it with the plastic. How are your wood skills in this regard?
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Thanks! I appreciate the support. I know... the placement of the reverse button on most of the MW CPO's is odd, can't imagine hitting that with my thumb while keeping my hand on the left stick. But.. I think it's partially due to the size of the joystick base. I was lucky that the Paradise JLF (plug!) stick has a narrower base than most.
When I built mine, spacies suggested I could shave a portion of my joystick to have the button fit better. In hindsight, I wish I had done it. I could have drilled a new hole or held it in with 3 bolts. I'm sure it would've been fine.
I used supers. Not bad joysticks, and cheap enough I could've tried cutting the plastic to get the reverse button closer. There are some threads of people cutting the base for defender. Here is Toks build: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66946.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66946.0)
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No offense taken opt2not... pls forgive my typing skills... replying on my droid.
I considered removing the monitor outer shell. I did that on my mspac mame.
Thanks for the nudge... thats a better way.
I have wood skills... :)
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Quanlee
It is your cab and I think you have taken a very good path to keep things out of landfill and producing a very nice product. Some people are just overly sensitive and since it is your cab to do what you want. BRAVO great work :applaud: :applaud:
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Hey quanlee, I pm'd you about those parts and the Tempest you mentioned. Check your messages please.
Also, I have some Williams CPs in my shop that have already been converted before, in case you decide not to cut up that original Joust panel. For sticks, you might try some Konami 8-way leaf sticks, or a pair from a Williams Narc cab. They work really nicely for most games and look good to boot!
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Hey quanlee, I pm'd you about those parts and the Tempest you mentioned. Check your messages please.
Also, I have some Williams CPs in my shop that have already been converted before, in case you decide not to cut up that original Joust panel. For sticks, you might try some Konami 8-way leaf sticks, or a pair from a Williams Narc cab. They work really nicely for most games and look good to boot!
I don't have access to the Tempest anymore, it was sitting in a basement where I picked up the Joust. That was a while ago, I bet it's gone now.
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I don't have access to the Tempest anymore, it was sitting in a basement where I picked up the Joust. That was a while ago, I bet it's gone now.
On the off chance that it's not, do you have the person's contact info?
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I don't have access to the Tempest anymore, it was sitting in a basement where I picked up the Joust. That was a while ago, I bet it's gone now.
On the off chance that it's not, do you have the person's contact info?
No, I'm sorry.
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I find it interesting how much attention is being paid to the reverse controls on this MW project and not a single word about the hyperspace button placement. I have never played a Multi Williams but from what I have read/seen, there are serious compromises in the controls when it comes to playing Stargate or (Defender). Having an 8 way instead of a 2 way joystick and the hyperspace button being in a totally different spot than an original Stargate makes the game play very different. The MW artwork takes precendence over the controls. The only way to play Stargate properly is on a dedicated Stargate cabinet IMO.
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I find it interesting how much attention is being paid to the reverse controls on this MW project and not a single word about the hyperspace button placement. I have never played a Multi Williams but from what I have read/seen, there are serious compromises in the controls when it comes to playing Stargate or (Defender). Having an 8 way instead of a 2 way joystick and the hyperspace button being in a totally different spot than an original Stargate makes the game play very different. The MW artwork takes precendence over the controls. The only way to play Stargate properly is on a dedicated Stargate cabinet IMO.
Does anyone use the hyperspace (aka maybe you'll die, maybe you'll live) button? Hyperspace isn't a regularly used button. The 8 way isn't the only compromise with the joystick. Defender had a small shaft and the joystick was much lower to the control panel than Robotron.
I think for a casual player, a multiwilliams machine makes a lot of sense.
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I find it interesting how much attention is being paid to the reverse controls on this MW project and not a single word about the hyperspace button placement. I have never played a Multi Williams but from what I have read/seen, there are serious compromises in the controls when it comes to playing Stargate or (Defender). Having an 8 way instead of a 2 way joystick and the hyperspace button being in a totally different spot than an original Stargate makes the game play very different. The MW artwork takes precendence over the controls. The only way to play Stargate properly is on a dedicated Stargate cabinet IMO.
From my experience, and my own preference most people who play Stargate don't use the hyperspace button. It's a crap shoot, you hit it and you roll the dice whether you re-appear in a good spot or die. In Defender, I think the hyperspace button takes you to a humanoid being captured, so it's a little more useful. As for the location, I don't think it's as critical as the reverse button.... why? You have to hit the reverse button with your thumb while controlling the ship up/down with the left stick. You have to be able to reach it while holding the stick. Most of the CP layouts I have seen, it's too far away for that.
I tried playing Stargate with my prototype CP and it was decent. The 8 way stick doesn't seem to be an issue, yeah you tend to move the stick to the right or left at times, but it doesn't move the ship, if you put it in the right upper corner, it still goes up. So... I don't think the 2 way / 8 way stick is an issue. The bigger issue with the stick I think is the height. My first prototype had long shaft bat type sticks, and those were tough to use for Defender and Stargate. My new JLF's from Paradise (plug) have ball ends, and don't stick up so high, so they are closer to the original Stargate / Defender feel.
I might take a look at the hyperspace button though, but my concern at the moment is that it might be too close to the front of the CP, and be tough to get a button in that space, with the wood from the front and corner being in the way.
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I find it interesting how much attention is being paid to the reverse controls on this MW project and not a single word about the hyperspace button placement. I have never played a Multi Williams but from what I have read/seen, there are serious compromises in the controls when it comes to playing Stargate or (Defender). Having an 8 way instead of a 2 way joystick and the hyperspace button being in a totally different spot than an original Stargate makes the game play very different. The MW artwork takes precendence over the controls. The only way to play Stargate properly is on a dedicated Stargate cabinet IMO.
Does anyone use the hyperspace (aka maybe you'll die, maybe you'll live) button? Hyperspace isn't a regularly used button. The 8 way isn't the only compromise with the joystick. Defender had a small shaft and the joystick was much lower to the control panel than Robotron.
I think for a casual player, a multiwilliams machine makes a lot of sense.
My JLF sticks are pretty short... 8) I think they are pretty close to the original height, but maybe a little taller so you won't wear the skin on your knuckles down.
Does anyone remember "defender finger?", that blister / abrasion that you would get on your middle finger knuckle from moving the joystick up and down, since the stick was so short? I have a scar on my finger from that... I played a lot of Stargate when I was about 13. I could walk into Pinball Pete's (local arcade in Lansing, Michigan) and play for 30-40 minutes on a single quarter, but like to also start out with 2 quarters... more ships and bombs.
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I created another prototype control panel, fixing some issues I had with my first attempt. Major change was I used my new JLF sticks from Paradise (plug) instead of the old bat style sticks.
(http://www.leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-09_23-25-57_320.jpg)
Those JLF sticks had a different type of wiring harness with a single ground wire, so my quick connectors I had been using (2 wires per joystick side) was not going to work. The joystick came with a nice connector with 5 wires (left, right, up, down and ground). So... I soldered each of the four directional wires, and the ground to their respective wires going into the USB quick connect. That resulted in a wire harness with my USB pin connector on one side, and my JLF joystick connector on the other side.
(http://www.leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-09_23-02-12_332.jpg)
Here's a pic of the CP all wired up.
(http://www.leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-09_23-24-48_328.jpg)
and... now set in my cabinet temporarily for some testing. The testing I did went very well. I had to change the direction of the left stick, since it was rotated to leave room for the reverse button, that required some re-programming in the mame interface. Once that was all done the games I tried were great. I played all of the MW games, including Stargate and Defender. The reverse button worked great, felt like it was right where it was supposed to be. The thrust and fire seemed a bit too far away to the right, but I got used to it very quickly.
I noticed one problem, the fire and thrust buttons (rigt most buttons) are too close to each other. My next revision will have them another 1/8" apart, I'll just do that on the final. I'm also going to take a closer look at the hyperspace button, make sure it's not too close to the front of the CP. I'm glad I've spent some extra time on these prototypes, so I don't run into a major blunder after ordering/printing the CPO and drilling holes in my nice cleaned up CP.
(http://www.leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-10_00-47-29_315.jpg)
Next steps: finalize my control panel layout, either print or order my control panel overlay, fill holes in my control panel. Remove the LCD monitor outer shell and figure out a nice way to mount the LCD monitor inside the cabinet.
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I received my cabinet graphics from (starts with S, ends with S and rymes with naples). They turned out great, and the price was right. The colors are amazing. I'm going to have the CPO lamintated before I put it on. The samples of lamination I have seen were perfect. I'm sandwiching the bezel and marquee between sheets of glass cut to size.
Here are the individual sheets
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-15_21-49-34_139.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-15_21-50-04_983.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-15_22-13-08_818.jpg)
Here's the marquee installed, no light yet.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-15_21-55-07_715.jpg)
Here's the bezel and marquee.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-15_22-09-42_448.jpg)
Having second thoughts about leaving the brown sides with Joust stencil... a nice black paint would do it some good.
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I started reworking the final control panel. It had a layer of adhesive on it from the original Joust control panel overlay. I tried using Goof Off to remove it, worked on it for about 2 hours and barely put a dent in it. I ended up taking it to a local wood re-finishing business. They stripped it down to bare wood for $10.00. Wow...
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-27_11-32-28_147.jpg)
I still need to fill in the original holes, and drill new ones for my button and joystick layout. After reading about different methods of doing this I chose to use bondo. I covered the back side of the holes with duct tape to keep the bondo from falling through during application, and to get a nice smooth finish on the back side without sanding.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-27_11-32-40_413.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-02-27_11-41-29_426.jpg)
I can't say enough about BONDO, it's pretty cool. It adheres to anything, and is very durable. I had to do two applications to fill in the voids. After each application I let it dry overnight and then sanded it smooth with my Dewalt 1/4 sheet palm sander. Once the original holes were filled, I used the control panel overlay to transfer the hole locations for buttons and sticks.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-01_22-31-09_995.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-01_22-30-40_151.jpg)
I drilled the new holes using a multi-spur 1" 1/8" bit I picked up from Lowes, cost about $10 but was well worth it. My past attempts at drilling these holes with a paddle bit were very messy. The holes with the multi-spur bit turned out very clean and neat. After the second application of bondo there were still a couple very small imperfections, which I filled with drywall spackling. The spackling is going to be covered anyway so I wasn't worried about it being too strong. I hand sanded it one more time, once it was all smooth, I put a coat of black primer on the entire piece. This was so the overlay would have a consistent surface to adhere to rather than wood, bondo, and spackling on different parts. Not sure if that was an issue or not, but it couldn't hurt. Unfortunately I didn't take any pics of the primed control panel. Once the primer had dried overnight, I used 3M Super 77 Multipurpose Adhesive to attach the new overlay to the control panel. I sprayed a layer of adhesive on the primed control panel, and on the back of the overlay. It went on well, but had to peel it off and put back a few times to get it lined up just right. You have just a few seconds to do this before it is stuck permanently.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-07_00-04-32_188.jpg)
I transferred the mame usb interface, all of my buttons, the two joysticks, and wiring from the prototype control panel to the finished cp. I made a couple of changes to the button colors, no reason other than personal preference as to how they looked on the cp overlay/artwork.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-07_20-08-05_716.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-07_20-08-36_116.jpg)
I re-installed the control panel into the game. The only hitch I ran into, was the placement of the 1-player and 2-player start buttons interfered with the shelf the glass bezel rested on. I used a dremel to cut out a notch in the center of the shelf, just enough to be able to close the cp tight to the glass. I think it looks pretty cool, and it plays GREAT!! I played Stargate for about an hour and have no issues with any of the button or stick locations or feel. It's spot on. The only difference is the width from left joystick and right hand buttons, and the clicking sound you get from the joystick since it's a micro switch type vs. the original leaf sticks they used back in the day. The reverse button is spot on, right where it needs to be so you can flick it with your thumb to reverse the direction of the defender/stargate ship.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-07_23-43-36_427.jpg)
Here's a picture of the machine with all of the artwork in place.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-07_23-43-20_271.jpg)
I did some work on the sound system. I soldered the arcade machine's original speaker wire/connector to one of the PC speakers. The sound generated by the PC will be amplified by the powered PC speakers, and fed to the arcade machine's original speaker below the marquee.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-07_22-38-05_648.jpg)
I mounted the main/powered PC speaker just inside the coin door, so you can easily reach the volume control. The second non-powered speaker is mounted beside the LCD monitor behind the bezel/glass, out of site. The arcade machine speaker is connected to this speaker. I'll post pictures of that later.
I'm very close to having this thing done... just a few more things:
1. Finalize the placement of the LCD monitor and method to secure it there.
2. Decide how to secure the PC inside the cabinet.
3. Touch up some of the black paint on the front of the cabinet.
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I love translucent IL buttons but I must say that translucent leaf switch buttons, while much more difficult to work with, look cooler with that tri-spoke pattern on the top, especially in Williams games. I have cabinets with both. Where did you get the MW bezel artwork file? Can you share with us? ;D
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How much was the stuff from Staples? Did you do your marquee there, and does it look good backlit?
I was thinking of ordering one from one of the online sources but since mine is going to be mostly black with some silver lettering in the center it might be easy enough for one of the local printers to do a decent job.
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Securing the LCD monitor... I thought about removing the LCD panel from the plastic frame/casing but as I thought about how to mount the LCD panel I honestly could not come up with anything any better than the frame it was in, "if it's not broke, don't fix it" came to mind. The only real issue was how to keep the LCD pushed up close to the back of the glass/bezel. I ended up putting it in place and attaching the monitor base to the slide out montir shelf with a couple of screws. I had to use some shims, since the monitor was cocked to one side for some reason. It was used, so who knows what the previous owner did to it. To hold it in place, I positioned the monitor up against the glass, and put another very long screw through the middle of the adjustment arm, holding the arm in the lowest position, right where it needed to be. With those screws in place, the monitor won't move.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-13_21-44-27_818.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-13_21-44-15_348.jpg)
The original monitor shelf can still slide out. But... it's even easier to get to the monitor if you go in from the front, and just take out the bezel/glass.
Since I removed the original CRT and black plastic frame (between CRT and bezel/glass) I still had to replace that black frame with something. I remembered an old product from back in the 90's called a "Screenie"
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/screenie.jpg)
These cardboard screen frames were available at game stores and specialty computer shops, they fastened to the monitor with velcro. I took this same concept and cut a screenie of my own, out of black posterboard, fastened it to the monitor with velcro.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-13_21-47-21_694.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-13_21-47-40_32.jpg)
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-13_21-46-52_481.jpg)
I think the monitor turned out great, no complaints. Almost done, kids are starting to ask to play it, my son is playing Ghosts and Goblins, wanted to know how to change weapons?? Sorry son, back in my day we only had the choice of one weapon... well kind of.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-13_17-46-36_389.jpg)
I removed all the cladding from the PC to make it smaller and easier to get to stuff. PC is now secure inside the cabinet with a single screw through the bottom of the PC case.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-13_21-44-56_27.jpg)
I added a light below the control panel to light up the translucent buttons.
(http://www.leeauge.com/sites/leeauge.com/williams/photos/2011-03-13_21-43-09_951.jpg)
I'll have to break out the satin black paint this week, get it done.
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How much was the stuff from Staples? Did you do your marquee there, and does it look good backlit?
I was thinking of ordering one from one of the online sources but since mine is going to be mostly black with some silver lettering in the center it might be easy enough for one of the local printers to do a decent job.
The stuff from Staples was around $80 for all three pieces. The marquee is not great when backlit, so I will probably not light it, or try to get one that looks better at some point. Does anyone know if the marquees you can purchase from some of the arcade sites are any better?
The control panel overlay turned out great, the laminate is perfect, the finish looks just like my original Stargate.
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I love translucent IL buttons but I must say that translucent leaf switch buttons, while much more difficult to work with, look cooler with that tri-spoke pattern on the top, especially in Williams games. I have cabinets with both. Where did you get the MW bezel artwork file? Can you share with us? ;D
I was thinking about sharing the vector files I used. I made quite a few changes to the control panel overlay. Even the marquee and bezel were changed slightly. I put them on proper work sheet / space so when printed they would print at the correct size. I re-organized the entire layer methodology of the control panel, grouped similar graphical items in the same layer structure. That was the only way I could move entire objects... for some reason the pieces of each object were scattered all over the place in the original vector files.
I have two concerns...
1. I would want some credit for my work... e.g. the [my name] version of the CPO
2. What about copyright issues? If I publish these files on my site, am I going to get a letter from the Williams legal department???
Anyone know if this is a real threat??? :dunno
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oh.... and just in case this subject comes up. I was very worried about destroying a perfectly good arcade machine.
I ended up using the decoder board from this Joust to fix my Stargate.... YES!!!
But, now that my Stargate is working again, there's that comparison between my new Multi-Williams and my Stargate. I have to say that playing Stargate on my new Multi-Williams is WAY BETTER.
No comparison.
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Hi there - love the build, we'll have to compare, I'm also converting a williams cab to MAME.
I like your changes to the Multi-Williams CPO - I'll be posting mine shortly on my build thread (promise - it's currently horribly out of date) - though I got rid of much of Multi-Williams and Game logos replacing them with my own since I went with a different button layout. I like your bezel art too - I kept the Robotron look & feel and added a starfield to replace the plain black - yours is more colourful.
I wouldn't worry about posting the files - the Multi-Williams CPO and Vector files are available on a few sites - notably this one: http://vectorlib.free.fr/ (http://vectorlib.free.fr/)
Be seeing you,
WonderAlex
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You can view / download the vector files I used for this project here:
http://www.treadplatedesign.com/arcade (http://www.treadplatedesign.com/arcade)
Please do not upload them anywhere else for download, you are welcome to hot link them.
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Hi there - love the build, we'll have to compare, I'm also converting a williams cab to MAME.
I like your changes to the Multi-Williams CPO - I'll be posting mine shortly on my build thread (promise - it's currently horribly out of date) - though I got rid of much of Multi-Williams and Game logos replacing them with my own since I went with a different button layout. I like your bezel art too - I kept the Robotron look & feel and added a starfield to replace the plain black - yours is more colourful.
I wouldn't worry about posting the files - the Multi-Williams CPO and Vector files are available on a few sites - notably this one: http://vectorlib.free.fr/ (http://vectorlib.free.fr/)
Be seeing you,
WonderAlex
Thanks!!!
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Quick question for you, as I'm designing a CP that's going to be Multi-Williams layout (however, I'm going to use it just generally for 'classics').
Why the second button on the left joystick? Just for proper flap button placement or something else?
Also, does Asteroids and Space Invaders play decent on this given the button setup? (If you want to play using the top right two buttons as left/right I'm guessing).
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nabbed that MW bezel just before it got taken down! nice work! I dl'd the bezel and then when I clicked another image it was...gone.Thanks!
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Quick question for you, as I'm designing a CP that's going to be Multi-Williams layout (however, I'm going to use it just generally for 'classics').
Why the second button on the left joystick? Just for proper flap button placement or something else?
Also, does Asteroids and Space Invaders play decent on this given the button setup? (If you want to play using the top right two buttons as left/right I'm guessing).
The second button on the left joystick is for a few reasons:
1. The closer lower button is for "reverse" for Stargate and Defender.
2. The second upper button is for "flap" for Joust, and also serves as a second button for two player side by side games.
I use the left joystick and either the left flap button, or the right fire button for these games. I don't really have a config for a left and right button, like the original Asteroids and Space Invaders.
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nabbed that MW bezel just before it got taken down! nice work! I dl'd the bezel and then when I clicked another image it was...gone.Thanks!
Taken down?? Huh?
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What specifically do you ask for at Staples for the CP overlay? What material? What did you use to affix it to the CP? Thanks!
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What specifically do you ask for at Staples for the CP overlay? What material? What did you use to affix it to the CP? Thanks!
Staples will print over sized full color prints or posters. They use a heavier than normal paper. You will have to work with them on the size, it's best if the file you give them is in PDF format, and is formatted to the EXACT size you need it printed. PDF.... you just need to rename the AI file to PDF.
I had them laminate the CP, just on the top side, then trim the laminate back to the edge of the paper. I used 3M Super 77 spray adhesive. You spray it on the control panel, and on the back of the overlay, be very careful when you apply the overlay, it doesn't peel back very well, basically once it touches the panel, it's stuck.
Good Luck!!
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Thanks.