The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Monitor/Video Forum => Topic started by: dugg8 on January 29, 2011, 04:41:26 pm
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So I picked up my Sony Wega KV-24FS120 today and started messing around with the the inputs. When I display in S-video (640x480 @ 60hz) the picture fills the screen and looks pretty good. I then proceeded to try the component hookup at the same settings and the picture now has geometry issues (keep in mind the resolution settings are the same). Also when using the component inputs there is flickering near the taskbar. Any ideas?
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I take it you're hooking this up to a PC?
The s-video output on PCs is almost always run through a scaler that mashes the video until it's "TV standard". The result is that the actual video output is almost completely independent of your OS's resolution settings. The component outputs on cards so equipped are often not subject to this mashing process and therefore are actually going to have different timings than the s-video output even if you don't change any settings.
You will need to describe "geometry issues" or provide a picture for troubleshooting.
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Ok, I'll try to get some pics, only problem now is S-video output works and component is scrambled :banghead:
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component (Y Pb Pr) generally has very specific resolution requirements, as i't meant for ED or HD signals only, not odd ball frequencies.
try feeding it 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i signals, it will probably straighten right out for you.
start out with 800x480 or 854x480 (768x576 if in europe)
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I reverted back to all the basic settings (640x480 @ 60hz) and it just comes out scrambled........ S-video is working fine though
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S-video is working fine though
The s-video output on PCs is almost always run through a scaler that mashes the video until it's "TV standard". The result is that the actual video output is almost completely independent of your OS's resolution settings.
The S-video output on videocards is designed to stretch or compress the image to fit the screen at (hence overscan and underscan) only 480 lines are used therefore a display resolution of 640 × 480 that is standard-definition television size fits nice... nonstandard resolutions get mashed up and produce a typically horrible, nearly unreadable image as a single TV pixel is being used to represent 2,3,4 or more computer pixels.
the YPbPr component video will ONLY display 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i signals or even more likely only 720p or 1080i. possibly only 720. your videocard must output these specific frequencies using the factory supplied cable to obtain even so much as an image. also trying to hack a VGA cable to run RGB through the YPbPr won't work... the sync is different. and also the YPbPr is designed for use in analog systems whereas YCbCr is intended for digital video, which i think you might be confused with.
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Lil shawn:
Thanks for the reply. I understand the point you are making, however when I set the videocard to the settings you recommend it's not working. I'll mess with it some more...
Update: Now the component is working at (800x600 @ 60hz) but the entire screen has a blue tint.....lol
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**also just to add, Im using the s-video to component dongle that came with the video card.
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**also just to add, Im using the s-video to component dongle that came with the video card.
It's not an S-Video to Component dongle. If you look a the port, it has 7 pins rather than 4 pins like S-Video requires. That port is just capable of multiple output types depending on setting.
Now, are you actually using 480i? Because things could go pretty nuts if you use 480p or something else.
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**also just to add, Im using the s-video to component dongle that came with the video card.
It's not an S-Video to Component dongle. If you look a the port, it has 7 pins rather than 4 pins like S-Video requires. That port is just capable of multiple output types depending on setting.
Now, are you actually using 480i? Because things could go pretty nuts if you use 480p or something else.
Currently the output is 800x600 @ 60 hz (using component input) and the screen has a blue tint.
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I think the only success people have had with component is when they used a VGA to component adapter, compatible with only some Radeon cards, apparently.
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I think the only success people have had with component is when they used a VGA to component adapter, compatible with only some Radeon cards, apparently.
Thing is I was able to get component working for a little bit but IMO the quality was no better than S-video, than again maybe it wasn't setup properly....... :banghead:
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Many nVidia cards have (or at least had) component output via a mini-DIN connector (looks like S-Video but isn't). There's a breakout cable that comes with the card (make sure you use the right one - they're not all the same) to give you the 3x RCA jacks. Quality varies, but I've heard it can be very good, and I know it works as I've used it before. Ability to actually get custom timings (including standard res compatible timings) is something I never confirmed. When I was messing with it, it seemed to want to include a scaler between the actual rendered video and the outputs, just like the S-Video output, but I'm told it may be possible to kick that out and get it to go direct.
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I have an AGP Radeon HD 4650 coming in the mail probably tomorrow or the day after. I'm intending to use it on an HTPC and feed 480i component to a 27" Sony Trinitron. I'll report my results after it's set up and getting tested if you'd like. However I'll only be trying 640x480 at 480i output, none of them funny resolutions.
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I have an AGP Radeon HD 4650 coming in the mail probably tomorrow or the day after. I'm intending to use it on an HTPC and feed 480i component to a 27" Sony Trinitron. I'll report my results after it's set up and getting tested if you'd like. However I'll only be trying 640x480 at 480i output, none of them funny resolutions.
Yea, let me know how works out. The ATI card that I'm currently using is a Visiontek HD 3650.
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Update:
I reinstalled the driver and set the computer up on a LCD flat screen display that has component inputs. The option for "Component Settings" magically reappeared. I put the settings back to 640x480 @ 60hz.......Now its time to test it on the wega.
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I managed to hook it up without any issues. Normal colors and 480i output. The issue I have is flicker. The CCC features a 'Flicker Removal' setting for 'TV out' but it DOESN'T have it for 480i componenet output, it treats component/HDTVs more like a monitor. :/
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I managed to hook it up without any issues. Normal colors and 480i output. The issue I have is flicker. The CCC features a 'Flicker Removal' setting for 'TV out' but it DOESN'T have it for 480i componenet output, it treats component/HDTVs more like a monitor. :/
Hows it look?
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It looks fine but it flickers. It appears that the 'flicker reduction' slider is only available for S-Video. So on 480i on component has this issue. I believe that with some blurring in your software you can compensate for this. But on XBMC it doesn't have that. :/ I actually may be stuck using S-video output for the sake of flicker removal. I imagine it looks fine on 480p or higher displays
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I currently have s-video running @ 800x600 with flicker removal. Also the setting for 'sharpness' is set to the lowest and it looks great. All of the jagged edges are smooth and the colors look great IMO
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I currently have s-video running @ 800x600 with flicker removal. Also the setting for 'sharpness' is set to the lowest and it looks great. All of the jagged edges are smooth and the colors look great IMO
I noticed that even for 480i component, you can ONLY run the destop resolution at 720x480 or 640x480 for that output. It really does seem to treat component video as something ENTIRELY different from 'TV Out'. So I guess S-Video will be my choice unless I get a higher res TV. Shame really.
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Try the s-video and let me know how it goes
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Try the s-video and let me know how it goes
Oh it works fine. But S-Video is inferior to component. It's just that when my trade off is flicker, I'll go with the one without flicker.
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Even if you're running your desktop at something higher than 480 lines, the s-video output is STILL only 480 lines. It's just scaled down. That makes everything look blurry and tough to read. SDTVs can only do 480i, and that's what S-Video is.
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Oh I now.. My point was that for 480i S-Video the attitude seems to be 'Whatever, scale it down and cram it out the S-Video cable'. Meanwhile, the component acts more like an actual monitor, operating at specific HDTV resolutions and having little deviation from that.
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That seems to be the way most of the component outputs on PC video cards work, yes. You are responsible for providing the exact timings you want with component whereas s-video will mash just about anything (usually with a maximum resolution limit) to fit.
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I actually picked up this exact tv set for my arcade and had all the problems you described. I had the blue tint on component out, but after hours of ---smurfing--- around I finally got it working perfectly. Unfortunately I did all this last fall and don't remember what I had to do to get it to work. I just finished making a custom chassis for the tv to fit into my arcade cabinet last week.
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.10150169075371752.294390.508456751&l=e070af86cc (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.10150169075371752.294390.508456751&l=e070af86cc)
EDIT: Forgot to mention, i'm using a nvidia geforce 7600gs. Its what I had laying around that was AGP and had component out. I believe what I did to fix the issue was actually roll back my drivers to the ones that came with the card, and it fixed it. I will confirm my driver version tonight when I get home.
EDIT 2: My current driver version is forceware 175.16
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/kameleon_green/IMG_1313.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/kameleon_green/IMG_1316.jpg)
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Ok,so I have component working and the colors look great, I'm running 480i/30khz. Now two more problems have presented themselves.
A) There is a little bit of flicker and I have no control over it.
B) The screen is no completely filled out
:banghead:
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You'll have to adjust the settings in the video driver to get it stretched to fill the screen, that's what I had to do. There should be a setting for flicker reduction, but its going to be noticeable on the windows desktop, but when you are playing a game, it goes away.
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Well I finally got the component output up and running and it looks great. In the Video card utility I had to adjust the settings so that there was plenty of overscan (to fill out the screen). Also just like elkameleon mentioned in the previous post, the FLICKER WILL DISAPPEAR once in mame. I'll describe the difference between the pictures as component output having much richer colors with a clearer picture (my opinion). Don't expect a night and day difference, but I definitely reccomend using component.
Special thanks to elkmeleon and Monmotha
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FEw quick notes on the WEGA series:
-they can have completely different geometry on different inputs. This is because they save different service menu settings for each input.
-they often come with a ton of overscan and other incorrect settings that can be fixed. I gained over 10% of screen real estate back by adjusting my XS955.
-they allow almost complete adjustment of all settings under the service menu, and thus can be tweaked to near perfection without opening. MAKE SURE YOU FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING WHEN YOU TRY THIS AND DOCUMENT EVERY SINGLE CHANGE YOU MAKE.