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Noob (who's researched) still with lots of questions...
HanoiBoi:
Hello all,
I'm in the planning stages of my first build and really want to get some of my parts ordered, but I've got so many questions still.
For starters, I want to order a joystick and a few buttons for trial hook up, etc. Of course, I want to use these in a final build.
BOARD
If a board, which? minipac, ipac2, ipac 4? I don't understand exactly what counts as an input
Does a 4/8 way joystick count as 1?
Does a spinner count as 1?
Does a trackball count as 1?
Does a flightstick w/trigger count as 1 or 2 inputs?
Here's what I'm imagining for my configuration...
1 Coin Player 1
1 Coin Player 2
1 1P Start
1 2P Start
1 Pause
1 Power
1 Exit/Escape
2 Mag-Stik Plus
6 Buttons Player 1
6 Buttons Player 2
1 Trackball
1 Spinner Player 1
1 Flight Type Joystick w/ Trigger (is this 2 inputs?)
2 Flippers
2 Nudge
1 Plunger
2 Light guns (future)
1 Spinner Player 2 (maybe)
1 Pause (maybe) - pause buttons would be side mounted behind Nudge - 1 per player
I'm definitely in the 32 input neighborhood, and I could probably easily keep it under with a shift/shazzam function, but don’t mind going over with a board that would handle it without doubling the price.
With that criteria, which boards are no good for me, which would 'work', which would be ideal?
Will some not work with spinner & trackball?
Will any not work with 2 joys, 1 flight w/trigger, trackball and 1 spinner?
Will any not work with 2 joys, 1 flight w/trigger, trackball and 2 spinners?
BUTTONS
While it would be ideal to use LEDWIZ, not necessarily for aesthetics, but to illuminate the buttons needed per game (for guests), I prefer non-translucent buttons for a more classic look (old classic – Asteroids, Defender, etc.)
I definitely want concave buttons, and from what I’ve read I understand that I should go with cherry microswitches. I thought I came across someone’s photos of a CP that used solid color (appearing at least) buttons that would also illuminate. Anyone know if this is possible?
ADMINISTRATIVE BUTTONS
Not really sure, but want a clean CP without the possibility of an accidental Pause, Exit or Power off.
Any suggestions accepted.
SPINNER
Can I use spinners as steering wheels? (Super Sprint, Off Road, etc.) If so I may want to add a 2nd spinner if space allows.
I want the ability to play Discs Of Tron that uses a Push/Pull spinner. I also want to be able to play Front Line which I believe requires the spinner to ‘push’. Also want a good feel for Tempest and most importantly, Arkanoid. Any suggestions?
FLIGHT STICK W/TRIGGER
Does this count as 2 inputs?
This would be ‘wanted’ by me for Discs Of Tron, Tron, Zaxxon, Red Baron, and I guess some more?
I don’t like the joysticks that look like a bat with a red button on top. Where can I find a decent flight w/trigger?
JOYSTICKS
I’m pretty much locked into the Mag Stik Plus, as I don’t want to use space for a dedicated 4 way.
I believe I don’t need Player 2 to ever need a 4 way, thus a Mag Stik Plus would not be needed? If I wanted the joysticks to look identical, is there another 8 way that I should go with, or simply stick with the 2nd Mag Stik Plus?
TRACKBALL
I’m lost on this. 3” 2 ¼”? High Track ball, not High Track Ball? I just want a trackball that I used back in the day in games like Centipede, Reactor, Marble Madness, Atari Football, Bowling games, etc. What size were they? Were they ‘High’? No need to illuminate, probably looking for cue ball white.
LED WIZ
If I do end up with some buttons that can illuminate…
Do I need to purchase LEDs separate from the LEDWIZ board?
Do I need something called an RGB Drive??
Are there certain boards that are compatible/incompatible with LED WIZ (ipac, minipac, etc.)?
SPEAKER CONTROL KNOB
I saw this somewhere, but can’t find one available. Anyone know where to purchase?
I know this might be overkill or seem like rambling, but really hope to get some answers and tips!
::)
Thanks in advance,
HanoiBoi
bungy:
Joysticks (both 4 & 8 way) typically have 4 microswitches, so 4 inputs. Each button, even a trigger on a flightstick is another input.
Spinners and trackballs use a different kind of interface so they wouldn't hook up to a keyboard encoder. I use Ultimarc's SpinTrak and a U-HID nano which connects to the PC with a USB cable. My trackball is an X-Arcade which has a USB plug built into it. Both are recognized by my system as mice. So it depends on what kind of controls you have when determining the interfaces needed. I'm sure others will chime in on this.
Sounds like you're closer to 40 inputs, I use an IPAC4 and it's great, but that's not to say the KeyWiz isn't. Go for more inputs, I started out with an IPAC2, but quickly ran out of inputs and my CP is pretty tame. Be caureful with your ambitions though, search "Frankenpanel" before you decide on a design. Also, BUILD A MOCKUP CONTROL PANEL. Out of carboard or something. Use it to play games, and see how you like the layout. Take your time, ask lots of questions and try different ideas.
BUTTONS
If you want illuminated opaque buttons, you'll probably have to do this yourself, but as you stated there is a thread out there that deals with this
ADMINISTRATIVE BUTTONS
This is usually a religious issue, but you probably want the power button out of sight on the back of the cabinet, far away from nosy guests and "button pushers" ("What's this button do?")
SPINNER
For push/pull, there's this: http://www.apachecontrols.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1
But I have never used it
FLIGHT STICK W/TRIGGER
Counts as 5 inputs, 6 for DOT
TRACKBALL
Go for the 3", Happ makes a good one, but they are expensive.
SPEAKER CONTROL KNOB
Depends on your sound system. I used a standard 2.1 computer sound system and extended the volume control with wires and mounted it to the front of my cab
Search the boards, you'll find lots of useful answers that have already been posted. But you'll find plenty of folks willing to help too. Just break down your questions into smaller chunks :)
Good Luck!
HanoiBoi:
Thanks for the reply bungy. I hear ya on the smaller chunks, and I'm trying, but I've been researching for weeks and the information that's out there really seems quite scattered and frustrating to find.
I also hear you and I'm quite aware of the frankenpanels. Don't worry, I will not end up on crapmame, not will I be surprised when people don't get my 4 foot spray painted wood 'bed'. I do want to keep my CP as narrow as possible and I'm still researching measurements for the best fit.
Thanks for your input on the inputs. That's the kind of info that I need! Your response did raise another question that I think I had wrong: Is the KEYWIZ an equivalant option to and IPAC4? Well, that's not phrased well...I was under the impression that the PC to arcade boards (ipac, minipac, optipac) were different and had diffeernt functionalities than a KEYWIZ and a LEDWIZ. Is this not true?
Without finding a decent program for a CP layout, I very roughly drew up a CP that might fit my interests. Please realize that I do not have any dimensions or scale to the drawing. Just an idea of locations.
Also keep in mind that I'm using a Space Duel cabinet and I'm a big fan of games with similar controls (Space Duel, Asteroids, Rip Off, Gravitar, Star Castle, Omega Race, etc.) so I've got the buttons laid out for both players, with the additional 6th button above. I am not a fan of fight games, so I don't think I'll do too badly with this lay out. (?)
Also a huge pinball fan, although I have yet to get Visual Pinball or PinMame configured properly, but I have to forward think!
Oh, one more....with the spinner above the buttons, I can't quite figure which button(s) I might use for firing in various games. Is this the best layout? I don't think I want to add another button or two near them...unless absolutely necessary.
Thanks again,
HanoiBoi
bungy:
Your button layout looks a little weird, but if that's what you want, go for it. If the cabinet is going to have more games than the ones you listed, you might want to make your CP a little more 'general purpose'. Remember you're probably going to want to show this thing off to your friends and have them play with you - they might find your layout confusing.
On my CP, I have two primary buttons that are a different color from the rest of the players buttons so it's pretty clear which buttons to try out first. These are the buttons to use when using the joystick, spinner, or trackball. Primary fire is always primary fire.
Like I said, make a mockup and test out your layout on a variety of games, you'll be glad you did. You may find that (for example) there's nowhere for player one to rest his wrist when using the spinner.
I'm not familiar with the Keywiz, but I understand it's pretty much that same thing as the IPAC.
HanoiBoi:
Thanks again Bungy. I agree with the hand rest when using spinner. I still haven't locked in on that. I'm also trying to figure out which button(s) I would use for firing, when using spinner games. Do most use the spinner with left hand, or right hand?
Not sure if you were shooting for sarcasm, but of course I plan to use more games than listed. ;D
I also completely agree that I don't want to cause confusion with the buttons. That's the main reason I would consider LED WIZ. Quite frankly, I'm confused when I see 6 buttons, 7 buttons and sometimes 8 buttons on just about every MAME CP out there. Remember, I'm not into the fighting games (never played them) so I don't really understand the need for so many buttons. I'm even considering just keeping the 5 buttons per player (Asteroids config). I figured I'd throw the 6th in for games that I haven't yet figured on, and general consensus . If you can cite examples of games that I'd be 'losing' by using just 5 buttons, please shoot me a warning! :cheers:
I appreciate the criticism and by no means take offense, but I am curious as to what you find weird about the button layout? The 6 buttons per player, and/or all of the other buttons?
I'd be curious to see your CP if you have it posted. I have considered making the fire buttons 'red' similar to your suggestion. I just haven't figured out which button that would be.
Thanks again!
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